Should Ireland be going to Zimbabwe?

riffmongous

http://www.cricinfo.com/icccont2010/content/story/474522.html

What do you think?

Corsendonk

Whats the issue? The opposition is in government sharing power. Cricket seems to be the most intergrated sport in Zimbabwe so by not going you punish them and force even more white players to leave the country. If you want better human rights in the home then we might have to reconsider playing some other cricketing nations too.

Gyalist

riffmongous wrote: »

http://www.cricinfo.com/icccont2010/content/story/474522.html

What do you think?

i think that it would be great for Phil to catch up with some of his old friends. If i recall he left under somewhat of a cloud a five years ago. It, of course, would be even better if Phil's new charges were to beat Zimbabwe at home.

HonalD

I for one, couldn't condone touring Zim for political reasons. I would have no problem with any team playing them at a neutral venue but no support should be given to their "government"....IMO
{Please don't jump into a political debate - that's just my opinion! Thanks.}

riffmongous

Scotland, on government advice have chosen not to go.

From a cricket perspective I think that if the rules originally were for a neutral venue then that is where the match should take place, no changing the rules half way through.

Also while the cricket infrastructure in zimbabwe has definitely improved, its still the same man in charge, Bvute.

Corsendonk

riffmongous wrote: »

Scotland, on government advice have chosen not to go.

From a cricket perspective I think that if the rules originally were for a neutral venue then that is where the match should take place, no changing the rules half way through.

Also while the cricket infrastructure in zimbabwe has definitely improved, its still the same man in charge, Bvute.

Would you be happier to tour if the ICC had the same rule as FIFA namely that the government should have no involvement in the running of the national association? If proven so they suspend the country until rectified.

TrueDub

Folks, this thread is bordering on off-topic - please keep the discussion about the cricket side of things, the politics side can be discussed in the relevant forum.

Thanks

riffmongous

How about the argument that since we need full points from our last 2 games to have any chance of playing in the final ( and it looks like we are going to get full points against canada) then Ireland would be better served playing in a neutral venue as was originally agreed?

Corsendonk

riffmongous wrote: »

How about the argument that since we need full points from our last 2 games to have any chance of playing in the final ( and it looks like we are going to get full points against canada) then Ireland would be better served playing in a neutral venue as was originally agreed?

Its cricket!! of course it politics!:)

Nah ICC wants us to play in Zimbabwe so we play there. We can't be getting on their wrong side if we want special one day status in the future and the powerhouses in Asia that have a huge say in the ICC don't have a problem with Zimbabwe. Simple as that.

djimi

Ill be honest; I havent been following the political situation in Zimbabwe closely enough the past few years to make a judgement based on that, but I agree with Corsendonk in that we are not really in a position to be backing out of arranged fixtures and tours with the risk of facing the wrath of the ICC. As far as Im aware there is no danger to the safety of the team to travel to Zimbabwe, so we should just go there, play the game, and leave again.

Obviously it would be preferrable to play at a neutral venue.

riffmongous

Well I hope our special one day status is going to be enough to get us into the 2015 world cup

http://www.cricketeurope4.net/DATABASE/ARTICLES3/articles/000041/004156.shtml

It will be interesting to see if Ireland get any special treatment compared to scotland in the coming months

djimi

That article makes me angry. The WC should be an all in qualification affair, like the football WC. Every country in the world should have the opportunity to enter it, even if it means running several pre-qualification tournaments to sort out the smaller of the associate nations. The ICC are so stuck up, antiquated and closed minded its unbelievable and extremely frustrating.

Nothing is ever going to change in world cricket; I fear Ill be in my 70s still watching the same 8 test nations and two hangers on playing test matches.

riffmongous

djimi wrote: »

Nothing is ever going to change in world cricket; I fear Ill be in my 70s still watching the same 8 test nations and two hangers on playing test matches.

Not necessarily, as soon as USA and China can put out any sort of a team they will be given full status :rolleyes:

Inquitus

Can we make the Final of the ICC Intercontinental?

Afghans - 77
Scots - 69 but forfeit to Zim in the last game
Zim - 63 but get 20 pts from Scots forfeit
Ireland - 52

By my maths we can only get to 72 and Zim are already on 83 by default no?

riffmongous

It depends on whether the ICC decide to treat scotland's decision as a forfeit or not, I think if you use government advice as your excuse they can't punish you

riffmongous

Great first day for Ireland, 340/6 at the close of play, Porterfield, O'Brien and Wilson make good contributions but most importantly White is a only few runs away from a century and John Mooney is still out there

riffmongous

Ireland 456 all out, Mooney falling 13 short of what would have been a fantastic century. Zimbabwe 132-3 with about 15 overs left in the day, Williams is on 52* and probably the most dangerous batsman left in the Zimbabwe order

Mothman

Zimbabwe moved onto 253/3 with Williams 134no

Mothman

Heading for a draw.
387/4 Williams made 178 and shared a partnership of 237 with Dabengwa who is 120no

and Porterfield is bowling....

riffmongous

470-6 now so Zimbabwe take the first innings lead and officially end Ireland's IC cup challenge, seems like a terrible pitch from the cricketeurope commentating, not taking any spin at all

Mothman

Zimbabwe 506/6 at stumps day 3 in reply to 456
One day left

riffmongous

This is bizarre, after pretty much guaranteeing that they have reached the final Zimbabwe offer to forfeit the Scotland game meaning it will be a Scotland vs Afghanistan final... point proved already maybe?

http://www.cricinfo.com/icccont2010/content/current/story/478547.html

Back to the Ireland tour, with the 3 ODIs being played at the same ground I think its going to be very hard for us to get a win. I've always felt our bowling was our strong point and it doesn't look like we are much of a threat on this pitch

djimi

I rather got the impression they prepared very much a batting pitch with the intention of playing for the draw which would have been enough to send them thru to the final, so the decision to forfeit was indeed very odd.

I agree that our bowling/fielding is very much our strong point, and we will probably struggle in the ODIs, but that said they didnt do a great job of bowling us out on that pitch either :P Its going to be tough tho.

riffmongous

Well the cynical cricket politican part of me would say that this is perfect for Zimbabwe, they can say 'Well even our A team is too good for the Assosciates, we didn't lose a single match and if we hadn't forfeit we would have won the tournament , there is not much point in us continuing in the tournament, lets just leave it to the associates while we go back to playing with the big boys', but hey, maybe I'm doing them a great disservice.

I thought that was a pretty weak Zimbabwe bowling attack, I only recognised the other Mazakadza. But in saying that I feel spin is our greatest batting weakness and also Zimbabwe's bowling strength recently, so maybe this terrible pitch will actually help us more than them

djimi

riffmongous wrote: »

Well the cynical cricket politican part of me would say that this is perfect for Zimbabwe, they can say 'Well even our A team is too good for the Assosciates, we didn't lose a single match and if we hadn't forfeit we would have won the tournament , there is not much point in us continuing in the tournament, lets just leave it to the associates while we go back to playing with the big boys', but hey, maybe I'm doing them a great disservice.

I thought that was a pretty weak Zimbabwe bowling attack, I only recognised the other Mazakadza. But in saying that I feel spin is our greatest batting weakness and also Zimbabwe's bowling strength recently, so maybe this terrible pitch will actually help us more than them

To be honest the following quote from the arcticle does seem to suggest that you could be bang on the money with your thinking behind their reason to forfeit; I got a similar feel from the situation myself, that they felt they are too big to be playing intercontinental cup.

"The Associate Member countries use this and other competitions to benchmark and track their progress, which is important to them," he said. "To this end we feel that the Intercontinental Cup is a significant competition in Scotland's development and therefore important that it gets the full benefits associated with playing in it."