Couture Vs Toney

sxt

Who do you think will win?

I think Couture will win this fairly easily, late in the first or early in the second by just physically wearing and tearing him down.I can't see how Toney can win unless he flat out knocks him out with outlandish punches in the first 30 seconds...

Hail 2 Da Thief

I'll be pretty surprised if Toney makes it past the first round!

kev9100

Couture in the second.

sonic.trip

randy by rear naked choke in the first

scooby2791

Waste of a fight. Proved nothing we already didn't know. The obvious happened, Randy won how he wanted when he wanted. I'm pretty frustrated after that, and the blackbelt stunt was pathetic aswel, UFC hype overkill. Things like this make me resent Dana more, he's good at hyping fights but good god he comes across real patronising as if he is the only who knows anything about MMA, pity alot of the idiots in the crowds eat it all up.


AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Need to vent.

Hail 2 Da Thief

OK so own up, who was the single person who voted for Toney?:pac:

scooby2791 wrote: »

the blackbelt stunt was pathetic

Yeah that made me cringe too!

Anyway, hasn't Randy recently stated that he is mainly training Catch rather than BJJ these days?

I said Arm Triangle and it was an arm triangle.

I'm boss.

enemy

the black belt stunt was ridiculous, he put an arm triangle on a boxer with 9 months of mma experience? thats like gettin a gold medal for winning a foot race against a one legged man

bjj-fighter

I would love to know how good his BJJ actually is,Im sure its good but Black belt? And I dont like the thing of giving fighters who have probably rarely ever trained in the Gi a Black belt (Just like Rashad Evans).

Anyone have a link of Randy Vs Jacare from X-Mission?

Sid_Justice

Strictly speaking it wasn't a BJJ blackbelt. Randy's grappling coach has no BJJ lineage, he trained with Gene LeBell, Gokor and Karo Parisyan.

I am genuinely surprised at people doubting Randy's blackbelt worth. I asked Matt Thornton at a seminar a few years ago and he reckoned without a shadow of a doubt Randy's bJJ was black belt level.

I mean at the end of the day, you stick randy on the mat with 10 bjj black belts, I'm talking regular blackbelts not world champions and randy wouldn't get submitted (imo). What does that make him? a brown belt?

bjj-fighter

Yeah I suppose you're right...Its just hard to see judging from MMA and I've never seen the guy on his back so I imagined that he would not be the best off his back but Randy's a smart guy and Im sure he has trained a lot of BJJ in all the years he has been involved with the sport.

I think my problem is MMA fighters being given belts like that. I think they should need to train in the Gi and work their way up from blue to black.

DrPhilG

Aye I heard it was a black belt in Extreme Couture trainer Neil Melanson's own personal system, not a BJJ belt. As said, Melanson doesn't have a BJJ background.

Although Randy was congratulated on getting his BJJ black belt during the ESPN after show and he didn't correct them.

Love this quote from ESPN.com's "aftershow awards"...

The subtle joke award: Couture's corner, for awarding him his black belt in jiu-jitsu after submitting Toney, who goes to the ground only when he drops a sandwich.

3v3v3v

I would love to know how good his BJJ actually is,Im sure its good but Black belt? And I dont like the thing of giving fighters who have probably rarely ever trained in the Gi a Black belt

theres a lot of no gi jiu jutsu clubs around like eddie bravos 10th planet,chris brennan next genertion and i think one of the graices teachs and trains no gi. aslo adcc one the biggest most precious jiu jutsu competition is exclusively no gi

so why do u need train with gi if you have no need for gi eg mma fighters fight in just shorts so are they not better of training without gi.

bjj-fighter

3v3v3v wrote: »

theres a lot of no gi jiu jutsu clubs around like eddie bravos 10th planet,chris brennan next genertion and i think one of the graices teachs and trains no gi. aslo adcc one the biggest most precious jiu jutsu competition is exclusively no gi

so why do u need train with gi if you have no need for gi eg mma fighters fight in just shorts so are they not better of training without gi.

Yes I am fully aware of Nogi and the Gi vs Nogi argument but that topic has been done to death,just search it yourself.

But how about you tell me about all the world champion and just top level Nogi guys who dont also compete very successfully in the Gi. And also the very proficiant BJJ practicioners in MMA...Maia , Big Nog, BJ (All Gi world champion medalists).

evil_seed

Mod edit: No requesting streams

Tim_Murphy

bjj-fighter wrote: »

I think my problem is MMA fighters being given belts like that. I think they should need to train in the Gi and work their way up from blue to black.

I am open correction but AFAIK John Kavanagh was promoted straight to purple by Matt Thornton. I can think of one or two other people that have no BJJ grade but it wouldn't really make any sense for them to be 'promoted' to blue belt as they would be well beyond the level of an average blue.

3v3v3v

Hi bjj fighter
I’m not trying to say gi or no gi is best there both equal good as each other. I’m trying to say there two different sports it’s like comparing judo and wrestling. you said “I don’t like the thing of giving fighters who have probably rarely ever trained in the Gi a Black belt” to me that’s like saying in order to be good at wrestling you must train in judo with the gi.

Where fact all wrestler has to is train in wrestling because that’s the best way as there both different sports because of the different grips. To add to my point I think its bit of insult for you to say to no gi black belt he does not deserve black belt to me it’s like saying to Olympic gold medalist in wrestling that he does not deserve the medal as he never train in judo.

Now on to question you ask me. To make clear I feel bjj gi will always have the most world class practitioner not because it better but because there’s way more gi clubs around world the than gi e.g. Ireland has about 30 gi clubs but only has I think about 2 no gi clubs. Nearly on the guys who compete in Pancrase in the mid 90s never train with the gi. And aslo the fact that just no gi only compations are relativity new e.g adcc only start in 1998

Ken shamrock, frank shamrock, bas rutten, guy mezger, Masakatsu Funaki. All these guys are great on the ground. Mark Kerr the mma fighter never train with the gi he won adcc twice. Kazushi Sakuraba aka the Gracie hunter, Josh Barnett, Jeff Monson two time winners of adcc and lot of other mma fighter train just no gi.

EnjoyChoke

3v3v3v wrote: »

Hi bjj fighter
I’m not trying to say gi or no gi is best there both equal good as each other. I’m trying to say there two different sports it’s like comparing judo and wrestling. you said “I don’t like the thing of giving fighters who have probably rarely ever trained in the Gi a Black belt” to me that’s like saying in order to be good at wrestling you must train in judo with the gi. Where fact all wrestler has to is train in wrestling because that’s the best way as there both different sports because of the different grips. To add to my point I think its bit of insult for you to say to no gi black belt he does not deserve black belt to me it’s like saying to Olympic gold medalist in wrestling that he does not deserve the medal as the wrestler never train in judo.
Now on to question you ask me. To make clear I feel bjj gi will always have the most world class practitioner not because it better but because there’s way more gi clubs around world the than gi e.g. Ireland has about 30 gi clubs but only has I think about 2 no gi clubs. Nearly on the guys who compete in Pancrase in the mid 90s never train with the gi. Ken shamrock, frank shamrock, bas rutten, guy mezger, Masakatsu Funaki. All these guys are great on the ground. Mark Kerr the mma fighter never train with the gi he won adcc twice. Kazushi Sakuraba aka the Gracie hunter, Josh Barnett, Jeff Monson two time winners of adcc and lot of other mma fighter train just no gi.

Is this an eye test?

3v3v3v

:Dlol

bjj-fighter

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

I am open correction but AFAIK John Kavanagh was promoted straight to purple by Matt Thornton. I can think of one or two other people that have no BJJ grade but it wouldn't really make any sense for them to be 'promoted' to blue belt as they would be well beyond the level of an average blue.

You may be right as you are far more experienced in Irish BJJ than me. But I think that would be a different case, my problem is not that people are promoted by skipping belts but that some MMA fighters are given Black belts straight off for maybe getting a submission in MMA or something.

But who am I to judge Randy Couture? He could be tooling Brown or Black belts off his back in training but I wouldnt know.

I just have a skepticism about belts and Black belts due to the number of stories you hear about BJJ cowboysm, I just feel that a promotion should be really earned.

MrStuffins

bjj-fighter wrote: »

You may be right as you are far more experienced in Irish BJJ than me. But I think that would be a different case, my problem is not that people are promoted by skipping belts but that some MMA fighters are given Black belts straight off for maybe getting a submission in MMA or something.

But who am I to judge Randy Couture? He could be tooling Brown or Black belts off his back in training but I wouldnt know.

I just have a skepticism about belts and Black belts due to the number of stories you hear about BJJ cowboysm, I just feel that a promotion should be really earned.

In fairness, i doubt it was a decision made on Randy just subbing Toney.

He just chose that moment to present it.

bjj-fighter

MrStuffins wrote: »

In fairness, i doubt it was a decision made on Randy just subbing Toney.

He just chose that moment to present it.

Yeah you are right I suppose but thats why I said "But who am I to judge Randy Couture? He could be tooling Brown or Black belts off his back in training but I wouldnt know."

MrStuffins

bjj-fighter wrote: »

Yeah you are right I suppose but thats why I said "But who am I to judge Randy Couture? He could be tooling Brown or Black belts off his back in training but I wouldnt know."

IMO, it wasnt great timing to present it.

It kinda cheapened the achievement of earning the Black Belt. Not only when it was presented, but the way in which it was "presented"

bjj-fighter

MrStuffins wrote: »

IMO, it wasnt great timing to present it.

It kinda cheapened the achievement of earning the Black Belt. Not only when it was presented, but the way in which it was "presented"

Thats exactly what I was thinking but I didnt bother adding it to my post:D

I feel that it should be more of an occasion with your training partners and friends in the gym. It just seemed like a bit of a stunt so I think thats what left the sour taste with me. If I saw that it happened in his gym and wouldnt really think much of it (I wouldnt be suprised by it). Like even Rashad Evans got his in the locker room after the fight.

They might have a sort of ceremony when he gets back to the gym anyway.

MrStuffins

bjj-fighter wrote: »

Thats exactly what I was thinking but I didnt bother adding it to my post:D

I feel that it should be more of an occasion with your training partners and friends in the gym. It just seemed like a bit of a stunt so I think thats what left the sour taste with me. If I saw that it happened in his gym and wouldnt really think much of it (I wouldnt be suprised by it). Like even Rashad Evans got his in the locker room after the fight.

They might have a sort of ceremony when he gets back to the gym anyway.

And everytime i've seen a belt be presented it's happened in the gym with only the training partners and trainers present.

But different strokes i guess!

bjj-fighter

MrStuffins wrote: »

And everytime i've seen a belt be presented it's happened in the gym with only the training partners and trainers present.

But different strokes i guess!

Is that not what I was saying?

MrStuffins

bjj-fighter wrote: »

Is that not what I was saying?

Of course

I was agreeing with you

Tim_Murphy

bjj-fighter wrote: »

You may be right as you are far more experienced in Irish BJJ than me. But I think that would be a different case, my problem is not that people are promoted by skipping belts but that some MMA fighters are given Black belts straight off for maybe getting a submission in MMA or something.

I doubt this happens in fairness. I would say that there are few people (MMA fighters or otherwise) that get black belts without deserving it. If you think people shouldn't get belts if they don't train gi that's fair enough, it's just a different argument.

bjj-fighter wrote: »

I just have a skepticism about belts and Black belts due to the number of stories you hear about BJJ cowboysm, I just feel that a promotion should be really earned.

Agreed, but I doube doubt that this Couture fella is a cowboy!

I feel that it should be more of an occasion with your training partners and friends in the gym. It just seemed like a bit of a stunt so I think thats what left the sour taste with me.

Gunni was presented with his brown belt from John in the cage after a grappling match at one of the Cage of Truth events. Did that leave a sour taste in your mouth too? :eek: