Eircom at my door lying

Ranicand

Two Eircom reps at my door saying I was on a special list to rejoin them with special offer to get me to return to Eircom.

Next Generation Broadband and a new phone package for 4 euro per month with no line rental.

I explained I was on UPCs Anytime pack with unlimited Local and National and 400 Mins of International calls per month.
Their reply was that their pack had the local and National calls and calls to 085 numbers and that the international calls would hardly be used anyway.
Also the money-saving made Eircom the clear winner over UPC 4 Euro vs 18 on UPC.

I use the international calls however I don't know anybody worth calling who uses and 085 mobile.


Next they tried to sell me their Next Generation Broadband saying it could save me money.
They asked me what speed I got from UPC and I said 30Meg they told me they doubt I can get 30 or anything like it in reality.
My speed test is like this around the clock now peak time also the 2nd one is peak time in the evening .

I asked what kind of speed they could offer me and their reply was I could keep my broadband and just get their phone 4 euro vs 18 from UPC I said their has to be a catch but they replied no I was on a special list and that they were trying to regain lost business.

I gave Eircom a ring on 1901 and asked about this offer and I was told it was true 4 Euro and no line rental FOR THE FIRST TEN MONTHS:rolleyes: after which I would be in a contract with the line rental on top of the 4 eruo so that would be 30 Euro vs UPCs 18 and I would lose my international calls.

So Eircom was trying to sell me a pack that is 12 Euro more expensive then my current pack and offers less using the bait of no line rental.

The truth is you sign a contract and the line rental kicks in after a few months and then you are stuck.:mad:

thenightrider

Only stuff for 2 months 10 months free line rental 12 month contract.

Not bad if you ask me.

Ranicand

thenightrider wrote: »

Only stuff for 2 months 10 months free line rental 12 month contract.

Not bad if you ask me.

And at the end of the year I have to switch back to UPC to get my 12 euro saving back and my international calls.

Also I would have two phone providers at the start and at the end as I was having my number ported.

Lifesapitch

This happened to me too this week. Same deal with the 10 months free and next gen broadband. I have everything(tv, phone, bb) with upc so i gave them a buzz and mentioned this deal and they dropped €25 a month off my bill for 12months! Might be worth a go if your contract with upc is out or nearly out.

watty

But...

On average due to Line Length
ADSL2+ 25Mbps is typically 6Mbps to 8MBps on average
Original 8Mbps ADSL sold as 8Mbps NGB is typically 3Mbps on average

Also
While the overall average speed in Ireland is about 3Mbps (due to smaller number of very fast connections), the majority of people get 1Mbps.

These are "puppy dog" sales techniques. Unless something dramatic happens, then after the introduction period you will be paying more than €4 for BB and also €26 Line Rental.

See http://www.techtir.ie/comms/dsl-limits why the current eircom marketing is less than fair.

Also the cap is now enforced.

Sponge Bob

Lifesapitch wrote: »

This happened to me too this week. Same deal with the 10 months free and next gen broadband. I have everything(tv, phone, bb) with upc so i gave them a buzz and mentioned this deal and they dropped €25 a month off my bill for 12months!

Quick two questions and an observation.

The 'free' line rental and free connection is for a phone line that has been out of service continually since 2009 and lasts 10 months from connection , it is detailed here.."trial Line promotion" and expires next week. It will be replaced by a half price line rental for 6 months ( not free for 10 months) offer from 1 sept ONLY if you are coming to the end of the 10 month free deal though. 'Normal' eircom customers may not avail of this "trial line 2" deal ....officially. Bet if you mention UPC and live in a city they might offer it though



1. Did you get the offer on a line that is in service ?
2. Did you get the 12 month free line rental offer in writing...coz if not then :D ....but there should be a recording.

BEASTERLY

As I posted in another thread. I was talking to an eircom ''winback'' sales guy yesterday , i promised to go back to eircom if they could provide broadband , to which he said ''i have just checked your line and it is due to be upgraded to give you broadband by the end of the year'':rolleyes:

Seems strange that the exchange has been enabled for 2 years and only now are they going to upgrade the lines. It is a bit suspicious.

Another example of eircom's slick and unfair sale techniques?

JonB

Yeah I got a call about Eircoms NGB and how I should switch away from UPC. Was a funny call him trying to prove how they offer a better package.

Solair

ADSL2+ simply cannot beat EuroDOCSIS cable modem connections. It's ridiculous to suggest that it can!

Most phone lines won't give you the full 24mbit/s unless you actually live IN the exchange

Typically 24mbit/s maxed out will give between 10 and 17mbit/s on the likes of Smart and Magnet.

Cable can deliver up to 120mbit/s without much difficulty when the new modems roll out later this year!

Also, eircoms NGB's backhaul is nowhere near as good as Fibre-to-Node that UPC use.

The only argument that eircom could make is that their service is *usually* (but not always) more reliable, particularly for voice telephony.

UPC's phone service is VoIP based and needs a working UPC broadband connection and mains power to work. Where as eircom's PSTN connections are independent of your broadband connection and power themselves.

Runs Cold

Solair wrote: »

ADSL2+ simply cannot beat EuroDOCSIS cable modem connections. It's ridiculous to suggest that it can!

Most phone lines won't give you the full 24mbit/s unless you actually live IN the exchange

Typically 24mbit/s maxed out will give between 10 and 17mbit/s on the likes of Smart and Magnet.

Cable can deliver up to 120mbit/s without much difficulty when the new modems roll out later this year!

Also, eircoms NGB's backhaul is nowhere near as good as Fibre-to-Node that UPC use.

The only argument that eircom could make is that their service is *usually* (but not always) more reliable, particularly for voice telephony.

UPC's phone service is VoIP based and needs a working UPC broadband connection and mains power to work. Where as eircom's PSTN connections are independent of your broadband connection and power themselves.

to be clear on this UPC phone does not require a subscriber to have upc broadband at all....

NeVeR

Had the same a while back... When they asked my speed there reply was "You dont get those speeds all the time",,, But I do lol.. Eircom are just so bad when it comes to BB.. and with them checking your downloads now I dont see why anyone would go with them.

Lifesapitch

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Quick two questions and an observation.

The 'free' line rental and free connection is for a phone line that has been out of service continually since 2009 and lasts 10 months from connection , it is detailed here.."trial Line promotion" and expires next week. It will be replaced by a half price line rental for 6 months ( not free for 10 months) offer from 1 sept ONLY if you are coming to the end of the 10 month free deal though. 'Normal' eircom customers may not avail of this "trial line 2" deal ....officially. Bet if you mention UPC and live in a city they might offer it though



1. Did you get the offer on a line that is in service ?
2. Did you get the 12 month free line rental offer in writing...coz if not then :D ....but there should be a recording.

The line has been out of service for over 12 months.
I didn't get 12 months free line rental (don't think upc do line rental, not sure), i got my bill reduced by upc on the back of eircoms offer - just told them i was considering changing and could they do any better on my bill. They more than matched eircoms offer and i keep the exact same package so i'm happy with it.

iMADEtheBBC

Never never never agree to a contract on the doorstep or from a cold calling salesperson.

Have your standard response ready : "Send me all of the details in the post with your contact information and I'll review it. If I'm interested I'll contact you"

they will reply with some sales pitch (probably telling you some bull**** about it being a limited time offer)

to counteract this you have your broken record response ready

"No, thank you all the same. I have a policy that I don't do sales on my doorstep or by telephone. I'm sure you'll understand"

Keep repeating until they go away.

iMax

I used to work for eircom (although in B2B not D2D). They're constanty trained to say anything necessary to get the sale. The company is so bad, that although they put a free landline & BB into my house, I kept my BT one, even at that, I resent the fact that they still get the line rental portion of my bill - as soon as UPC deliver I'm cutting that off.

Their sales tactics are despicable & their monthly sales meetings are aimed at humiliating staff who don't (can't) deliver.

It was said to me on more than one occasion when I asked for lower pricing "people will want to use us because we're eircom, not because we're cheaper"... let me tell you, that's not the case.

Horrible company.

PrinceMax

iMADEtheBBC wrote: »

Never never never agree to a contract on the doorstep or from a cold calling salesperson.

Have your standard response ready : "Send me all of the details in the post with your contact information and I'll review it. If I'm interested I'll contact you"

they will reply with some sales pitch (probably telling you some bull**** about it being a limited time offer)

to counteract this you have your broken record response ready

"No, thank you all the same. I have a policy that I don't do sales on my doorstep or by telephone. I'm sure you'll understand"

Keep repeating until they go away.

I disagree. I say agree to it at the time, and cancel it once they're gone if you're not happy with it. You have 7 days to cancel anything like this, without obligation.

I did it recently. Eircom called to the door, told me of the great deal I'd get. Sounded great. I signed. They left. I read the full contract. Realised it was a bad deal. Called and cancelled.

watty

I never ever agree to buy ANYTHING from any cold call (door, Internet, phone etc). It's feeding Trolls and making the most evil marketing practices in the Known Universe acceptable.

There is little difference between email spam and a cold caller at you door, except that the physical "cold calling" costs more and involves extremely poorly paid "salesmen".

ALWAYS research what you want and pick a supplier. You are much less likely to be scammed by Gutter/Roof repairs, tarmac, Broadband contract or whatever.

jay93

agreed there watty they are so clueless about broadband it is unreal they even send people round here that can barely even speak english its a disgrace what they try and sell to the guliable people at doors

daveyjoe

Yep, got a guy arriving at my door from Eircom a few weeks ago. I told him that I was with UPC and he told me that wireless internet is very unreliable and that although it may be alright now it gets much worse as more people use it. I corrected him and said that it wasn't wireless. He then proceeded to point at my chimney and ask "Well what's that?", I looked at him blankly and said "The neighbours' Sky dish, we share a chimney". He also gave me the free line rental spiel but neglected to tell me that it was only for 10 months, even after I asked him if he was sure.

watty

The eircom sales guys were here a few weeks back.

It was something like this

I said I have perfectly good BB and phone with no phone line, so no thanks paying €26 line rental a month. One asked how is that possible?

(They offered free line rental.)


I said Digiweb Metro, it's a high performance Wireless. I don't pay line rental.

He then said, "Well after the year free line rental they are abolishing line rental. Almost definate."

The other said,
"Yes I have Metro, can't get DSL, but does seem good" He stared at roof "But you have no radio"

"Yes it's not on the Chimney as the big Beech trees block the signal. It's beside the back door seeing the mast under the branches of the big trees"

So they went off...

Solair

Runs Cold wrote: »

to be clear on this UPC phone does not require a subscriber to have upc broadband at all....

True, but the product still requires a UPC broadband modem to work, you just can't use it for your internet access unless you subscribe to their broadband packages. It's VoIP!

You don't have to have UPC broadband for internet access, nor do you have to pay for it. However, technically speaking you do have it, it's just limited to VoIP only.

Jeff34634

A guy came to the door today and said it was 8mb up and down which I'm pretty sure isn't possible with their technology. They might also neglect to tell you your download usage and how if its not the unlimited package they will charge you per gb exceeding your limit which is 10gb or 30gb.

watty

Not possible.

acalmenvoy

Love this thread, can't wait to get a call from them so I can post on here.:D

wires

i wouldnt be too hard on the sales people. if you had the choice between selling eircom lines or giving your home to the bank which would you choose? and dont be smart...you WOULD choose to keep your home. i feel sorry for anyone who has to work like that.

so lay all the blame on eircom

its probably just despiration on their part, who really needs a landline anymore anyway (everyone has a mobile) and they are fully aware that their products are overpriced and underperforming.

might just be a ploy to improve sales figures in order to keep the books looking good. one can only hope that company is in serious trouble.

Jeff34634

wires wrote: »

i wouldnt be too hard on the sales people. if you had the choice between selling eircom lines or giving your home to the bank which would you choose?

Thats a nice assumption.. Nobody would be hard on them if they were doing things right which in my case they were lying about almost everything they said and did absolutely no research into what they were trying to sell. They pray on people that don't know alot about what broadband is or about other companies.

jetpack101

I had them a couple of weeks back.

Asked them what the latency, ping and packet loss on the DSL was.
After a short pause I said good bye and closed the door.

I think they where still there an hour later

alyuciao

alyuciao

Until the broadband in Ireland reaches this level. I may never come home.

Jeff34634

@ alyuciao In Ireland at least one company I know has already introduced "fiber to the home" in some areas which is as fast and I've seen alot faster than what you've posted.

jetpack101

Jeff34634 wrote: »

@ alyuciao In Ireland at least one company I know has already introduced "fiber to the home" in some areas which is as fast and I've seen alot faster than what you've posted.

I think magnet have fiber in belmaine. As far as I'm aware... the whole area was fitted with it right up to the door.
50Mb if you have fiber 25mb if you don't

bealtine

Jeff34634 wrote: »

@ alyuciao In Ireland at least one company I know has already introduced "fiber to the home" in some areas which is as fast and I've seen alot faster than what you've posted.

fibre to the home?

Who is that? Magnet?

wires

Jeff34634 wrote: »

Thats a nice assumption..

what assumption is that?

bastados

Am about to jump from Diginet to Eircom...both are 8meg packages but the new Eircom deal is zero contention with the relay station being just around the corner.
Now I game online most evenings so my connection needs to be quite good but in recent months my Diginet speeds had been a little iffy but in the main good.I am really hoping the package am buying into is better.Anyone know of the new contention free packages Eircom are offering?.

Baneblade

its not contention free its congestion free, at least at the moment

bealtine

bastados wrote: »

Am about to jump from Diginet to Eircom...both are 8meg packages but the new Eircom deal is zero contention with the relay station being just around the corner.

It's just a backhaul upgrade so new new speeds for customers and no "congestion" until lots of people start to use it (the bandwidth)

flamegrill

There's no viable FTTH service here yet. Magnet have around 100 exchanges unbled for LLU DSL. They have a number of housing estates, apartment blocks where they got in back in the celtic tiger days to provide tripple play services (phone/internet/tv) all over their fibre network. I'm not sure if that is actually viable.

One thing's for sure, there won't be anymore exchanges upgraded or estates/apartment blocks added anytime soon. UPC probably have the easiest network upgrade to get people to 120Mbit/s and that's something we'll probably see in 2011 in at least the bigger cities.

FTTH would require a huge investment in last mile and it'd only be possible in a small number of towns/cities currently because there's no backhaul from some of the MANs back to where the internet lives i.e. Dublin :-)

Jeff34634

wires wrote: »

what assumption is that?

That all sales guys are desperate and about to lose their home if u don't sign up like..really.. were do you come up with that stuff..

Yea I don't think we will see FTTH roll out anytime soon like why would we need it anyway? I have 15mb on upc and i rarely ever find a website or torrent capable of uploading 15mb/s to me.

wires

Jeff34634 wrote: »

That all sales guys are desperate and about to lose their home if u don't sign up like..really.. were do you come up with that stuff.

so if you were in a job you didnt like you would leave in the morning and suffer no financial consequences??...lucky you. i was speaking generally, i conseed that but if, as everyone here says, this job is so horrible then why else would they still be doing it?

Jeff34634 wrote: »

Yea I don't think we will see FTTH roll out anytime soon like why would we need it anyway? I have 15mb on upc and i rarely ever find a website or torrent capable of uploading 15mb/s to me.

now your making the assumption. does upc cable work in rural areas and/or will it ever be rolled out to rural areas? if not then it can never service all the entire population so clearly something else is needed. dsl btw also does not service rural areas. in order to recieve dsl you need to be within a certain distance from the exchange which results in people in rural areas with no broadband. again i am speaking generally but you say 'why would we need it anyway?' clearly something is needed because upc seem to be the only decent isp in the whole country and just how much of the country do they service???

bealtine

[QUOTE=Jeff34634;68821548

Yea I don't think we will see FTTH roll out anytime soon like why would we need it anyway? I have 15mb on upc [/QUOTE]

Translation "I'm all right jack" and nobody else needs what I have.
What about the vast majority of the country?

Jeff34634

Who's saying they don't like their job though? Thats a grand assumption, I know a few sales guys myself that love their job. Thats what I'm trying to say to you..

I was comparing UPC to FTTH not dsl, FTTH would of had a slower rollout than cable and I am just saying for people who are waiting for it upc is a perfect alt.

wires

Jeff34634 wrote: »

Who's saying they don't like their job though? Thats a grand assumption, I know a few sales guys myself that love their job. Thats what I'm trying to say to you..

I was comparing UPC to FTTH not dsl, FTTH would of had a slower rollout than cable and I am just saying for people who are waiting for it upc is a perfect alt.

Yeah, fair enough, point taken. I guess I just have a hard time believing anyone would actually enjoy going door to door telling lies but different strokes perhaps. I do doubt they all enjoy doing that though so surely its unfair to tar them all with the same brush. As I said before I would blame eircom for this as it was posted that they encourage the sales staff to do whatever is necessary to make the sale...that only leads to one conclusion.

I would love UPC broadband but I seriously doubt they will be running cable around all the roads. Can't even get dsl as I am 8km from the exchange. You might be forgiven for thinking I live in the middle of nowhere but I am only 40 minutes from Dublin in a pretty highly populated rural area. Point is hsdpa doesn't work, dsl doesn't work everywhere and fixed wireless needs line of sight so clearly something else is needed...either some new dsl implementation or something different. I don't know but maybe fiber is the answer???

Sponge Bob

wires wrote: »

I don't know but maybe fiber is the answer???

It is but you folks gotta lay it in your own areas and as far as the general areas of the M1 or M4 motorways ( possibly the M3 too) where you will be able to pick up backhaul to Dublin. There is nothing along the N7 or N11

Jeff34634

I know your pain mate I was stuck on fixed wireless in my rural home for over a year getting not much better than dial up speed, then eventually eircom showed up giving me 7mb! but not really it was downgraded to 1mb due to instability..

I think eircom are really pushing this next gen stuff, a sales guy came to my brothers house the other day, was very pushy he actually got him to sign up! Hours later he realized he had been what I like to call "sales guy'd" and cancelled it.

Cantona's Collars

The bean counters in Eircom are only interested in figures and have little regard for the guy's actually out on the streets knocking on doors trying to get sales.It's target driven and that puts sales staff under pressure to sign people up so invariably it ends up with a sales person saying anything to get a sale.
If they had a half decent product without ridiculous line rental charges etc. people wouldn't mind signing up.Take UPC as an example-not perfect but the best we have in the country at the moment.If I had UPC in my area I'd order it asap,I can get eircom no problem but won't take it,price and restrictive download limits which my current isp doesn't have.
Why do Eircom increase speeds(term used loosely) while lowering download caps-10gb per month is ludicrous.

wires

zerks wrote: »

Why do Eircom increase speeds(term used loosely) while lowering download caps-10gb per month is ludicrous.

as far as i can see they arent lowering the caps as they didnt/were unable to enforce the caps before ngb. it all started out with 10gb when dsl was first introduced (i think) so bringing in new (this is before ngb) products with 'higher monthly allowance' was just another sales thing. now the whole process starts over again and you will see the caps slowly increase in new 'better' products to get more sales. this is big business, they are not here to serve your interests but their own. im not making excuses for them, its just the reality of it.

bealtine

flamegrill wrote: »

There's no viable FTTH service here yet.

There's plenty of fibre running east to west but very little to the "regions".
With that in mind I see IrelandOffline have been working on a plan to spread fibre out in the "regions" by asking local authorities to include fibre ducting in all civil engineering works, that ould include sewerage and roads.

http://irelandoffline.org/2010/10/irelandoffline-have-quietly-been-working-on-a-plan/

Jeff34634

What isp would be selling the fibre? Magnet? I don't really like magnet they just seem to be leeching off people that don't like eircom.. Because they won't give you standard broadband if you don't already have an eircom line..

Magnet: Rory

Jeff34634 wrote: »

What isp would be selling the fibre? Magnet? I don't really like magnet they just seem to be leeching off people that don't like eircom.. Because they won't give you standard broadband if you don't already have an eircom line..

We have a different network to eircom, in many cases we don't even use the eircom lines (fibre services). In other cases we only need the copper in between the house and the exchange, once at the exchange our customers enter our own equipment and our own network.

I can understand your misconception, unfortunately this misunderstanding of our services is all too common so I thought it only fair to give our side.

watty

Jeff34634 wrote: »

What isp would be selling the fibre? Magnet? I don't really like magnet they just seem to be leeching off people that don't like eircom.. Because they won't give you standard broadband if you don't already have an eircom line..

That's a little confused.
1) BT business, Digiweb/Smart and Magnet (alphabetically) have fibre. That doesn't use eircom at all.

2)BT business, Digiweb/Smart and Magnet (alphabetically) have "LLU". That only uses the copper pair from exchange to your premises and some space, MDF capacity and electricity in the exchange. This is all ADSL2+ or possibly even VDSL2 in some places (newest DSLAMs do either), so Peak "up to speed" is 24Mbps and average length line is 6Mbps to 8Mbps depending on crosstalk (how many other people in same cable bundle have DSL) and quality (all kinds of stuff including noise, cable inherent quality, number and quality of cabinets and connections).

"Bitstream" is resold eircom DSL. It uses eircom DSLAM (either 8Mbps peak, 3Mbps for average distance if original ADSL or 24 Mbps peak with 6Mbps to 8Mbps on average distance on ADSL2+ DSLAM enabled exchanges). There are rumours that some exchanges have a mix of DSLAM types depending which shelf your line goes to (a DSLAM shelf or unit in a rack is 48 or 96 lines).

BT transferred their retail "bitstream" to Vodafone.
Digiweb had some LLU and fibre even before taking over wreckage of Smart. Though not many people outside of industry knew about their LLU.
Magnet originally was only company doing an interesting variant of LLU called GLUMP (sorry if there are any mistakes in that Rory, check history and you see why I apologise )

Digiweb/Smart and Magnet both also resell eircom DSL (bitstream). They probably don't make much doing it, revenue wise, it probably helps eircom most. But it means when they have enough customers on an exchange they can consider installing their own DSLAM and Backhaul (LLU) and both improve the customer QOS and Speed and eventually when capital expenditure recovered, more profit.

It's not simple. Also regulator inaction meant that LLU was 10 years late being cost effective. It's now too late as it's better to invest in fibre (FTTH/FTTP or FTTC).

From http://www.techtir.ie/comms/fibre-helps-mobile
No matter what technology is used of DSL, without "bonding" multiple phone lines to your house, those at extreme distance only get 1Mbps and those at average distance only get 6Mbps to 8Mbps on a single copper pair.

VDSL2 can do 250Mbps. There are experimental 1000Mbps solutions for copper phone wires (uses multiple pairs). But these speeds are only on copper pair from a fibre fed cabinet in your street (FTTC). Or Fibre to an Apartment block wired internally with phone cables or CAT5e.

eircom and DSL is fast becoming irrelevant. DSL (copper pair phone wire to exchange) can't compete with UPC HFC. It can only offer about 10% to 15% of people high speed Broadband.

The future is clear, it's fibre. Universal mix of FTTH in urban/suburb (100Mbps MINIMUM), FTTC in suburb/Rural (30Mbps Minimum) and a small amount of Fixed Wireless with real 20Mbps to very isolated people would cost about €1.5B, less than Metro North, about 1/3rd of eircom's debt, or a bit less than two years eircom revenue. If it was a wholesale universal network used by all and the copper closed down, it might even be in profit in 5 years.

You can get fibre ANYWHERE that ESB gets to, not much more expense than running phone wires! You can string it on wooden poles (ESB and eircom) and on street lights. You can feed it down sewers or trench 1km a day per team on a country road.

The problem is Government promoting mobile Phone as NBS/Broadband solution and eircom market dominance. The big non-eircom ISPs can't borrow the money and eircom can't with almost €4.7Billion debt at lasat buy out (about 3/4 artificial from leveraged buyouts/asset stripping).

In a greater irony the route to better Mobile Data performance and Voice coverage for Mobile is to take traffic OFF the Mobile network. All fixed users to fibre. Also the Mobile operators can deploy Femto Cells and get free "cell backhaul" via your Broadband. The NBS is the wrong way round The USA has now as many Femto cells as real masts.
Universal mostly Fibre Broadband would dramatically improve Real Mobile user's speeds to x4 in many cases and reduce Mobile Operator costs for Cell backhaul. Also create a market for Femto cells.

oneweb

Door-to-door salespeople are the scum of the earth. The number of times I had to listen to someone tell me what they were promised and signing up for they-weren't-exactly-sure-what was unreal. I then had to tell them when they called support that their line wouldn't support it or they were actually put on something more expensive.

NEVER sign up with ANYTHING from ANYONE calling to your door. Unless you like surprises.

watty

Or cold phone calls, snail mail or email...