Advice on bitchy girls in work needed please.

gar32

Hi all,

My GF works with 3 girls in an busy office. She is having issue with been given more work the then rest. Also she has been shouted at and is always left out of talks about what work needs to be done & who should do it.

This is on going for nearly 3 years but has got worst now due to management taking on more work then ever before. They have deadlines, which have to be meet, but after asking for help was told everyone is busy.

The other girl would chat a lot and have tea breaks when not due them etc. They would backbite everyone in the company even each other. My GF stay professional as much as she can but has been know to come home crying. Management has other duties so it is left to manage them selves most of the time.

The problem is these girl are 2 faced & have the rest of the company thinking they are great girls and a good team. The HR guy has told new people starting this. The thing is if the girls do not like new people they get them sacked or the people leave themselves.

I know my GF is luck to have a job but would not like the stress of more then her fair share of work.

I have finally convinced her to talk to management but feels even they could not improve the working environment.

We need to get something so as my GF is thinking of leaving with or without a new job to go too. Thank you for reading & any advice would be great.

Regards

looksee

Do the other three girls get to distribute the work, and give her more? Unless she stands up for herself and gets involved in the distribution they will continue to do it. I'm not quite sure how a system works where the staff decide what they will do, but either she gets involved, or asks for a change of system.

It is quite possible that she does in fact have a chance say what she will do, but allows them to give what ever they think. In which case she will continue to be trampled on.

Of course the boss is going to say 'they are a great team of workers' - he is not going to say 'this lot are rubbish and always backbiting' is he? If however he actually believes this, then she needs to have a meeting with him to come up with a way that work can be distributed more equably.

If the alternative is leaving, why not challenge the situation. She may be surprised to find that the others genuinely did not see it the way she is seeing it.

tenchi-fan

Your girlfriend does not understand the rules to the game.

She thinks it's her job to take on as much work as possible, pick up the slack for the others in the office and maybe then management will recognise her hard work and appreciate her.

What probably happens is the more she does, the more she's expected to do, the more the other girls can slack off, the more the other girls b*tch, the more mistakes she makes (which are pointed out behind her back) ...

I think talking to the management would be a bad move. Like it or not, the 3 girls have dictated the culture in the office. As far as management are concerned it's working well. They see the girls having the craic, taking their breaks, and the work still gets done. I think it would be a huge mistake to go squealing to the managers. It will get back to the girls and they will make her life a misery.

She needs to relax a bit, and get on with the girls even if she doesn't like them. She would probably be more appreciated for offering the manager a cup of tea than to work through her lunch.

gar32

Seems the girl where bad mouthing her to the manager as they seen she was at her wits end. He said that he has little experience of this thing and she should be friend with the other girls. I know where the idea came that becoming friends is best but these girls are not friendly. Shouting, exclusion & constant rudeness is what she has to try deal with. She has got the information together of past events & has a meeting with HR guy. If this is what it take to get her to stand up for herself I am all for it.

She also was informed the one of these girls was to share out the work and if she is given a job she should do it. Ten hours over time in two week and she still only just got the minimum needed for the job. She has a high degree & understands the job better then the other girls. She is also from Poland & this could be a factor but I am hoping now. The other girls are Irish.

Just before leaving today 1 of the girl who has not talked to other the work chat in 2 years ask if she needed a break and was everything ok. I am hoping it’s a confidence thing to & clearing the air will help her & the team in the future.

Thanks for your advice & any more ideas would be great.

gar32

My GF did not sleep last night worrying about this job.

thirtythirty

gar32 wrote: »

My GF did not sleep last night worrying about this job.

Girls are bitches. At least with lads you always know where you stand with them.

How important is the current job (I mean the role, not the job) to your GF? - tbh I would just consider looking for an equivalent job somewhere else.

There's WAY more out there than people think - of course, I don't know what profession she's in. But if she finds one, she can leave and the 2 girls won't know what hit them workload wise, and your GF can let management know that the 2 girls are the direct reasons for her leaving. Might scare them into sorting the girls out due to potential future legal issues.

sambuka41

That sounds really awful. Its bullying. But in saying that its not likely to change. Your gf should keep a diary of every time she has a problem. And keep copies of all documents where she raises her concerns about it. She has to voice her concerns in a professional way,if they are setting tasks that she cannot realistically do then this is bullying. If she is intentionally being excluded from discussions involving her work this is also bullying.

At best with enough evidence (emails,memos,minutes from meetings without her) she may get constructive dismissal

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/dismissal/constructive-dismissal

looksee

I don't think she should rush to leave. If she is Polish she may not be very confident about her English, she may not always understand colloquial English, just being from a different country may make her seem to be stand-offish, the local girls do not know what to make of her. Granted they may well be bitches, but they can be coped with. Go on a charm offensive.

Firstly she has to look confident, and smile. Say hi pleasantly even though she might not get an immediate response. Don't stop to be snubbed, just keep going as though she doesn't care whether she gets a response or not.

Admire someone's hair or bracelet. Nothing over the top, just the sort of 'you hair looks nice, did you just get it cut/coloured whatever'. Mm, it suits you. And leave it at that. Just work it up gradually over a couple of weeks.

She doesn't have to change her personality, just be a bit more confident and approachable. Don't look for response or act as though it matters, don't 'ask for permission to speak' she will make herself vulnerable. Gradually the others will get used to her greeting and respond, and eventually will forget that she is supposed to be the one they bully.

She should keep her head up, not look at the ground, be relaxed and look confident, even if she doesn't feel it. Refuse to do something if it is unreasonable. Don't join in the illicit coffee breaks, but be sociable in the regular ones.

If all this sounds impossible, then that's probably what the main problem is.

Mrs OBumble

looksee wrote: »

I don't think she should rush to leave. ..

Even if she's not confident, an fresh start could be far easier than trying to win over bitches who know they're onto a good thing.

All for being polite/professional in the meantime, but there are other jobs out there. Unless there's a good reason to say, I'd be looking.

gar32

Update

Seems like she is getting places

After talking to management the system for sharing out work will be changed. Also she had a meeting with HR and is dealing with the shouting in the past from the girls. She was confident & spoke to the girls about going to management to improve system. ( Not to say they where bitch.) 1 of the 3 girls has agreed today to changes. The others are complaining but management informed them that changes will go ahead.

I am proud of her in how she dealt with issue in professional manner. She still did not feel great inside but did not let the girls see that. Here’s hoping things get better. In the mean time CV if being updated & time spent looking for change as plan B.

Thanks all for your interest. You have help us in dealing with issue. I hope karma is passed on to you all.

Regards Gar

looksee

Good news, good luck to your gf, and thanks for letting us know.

gar32

Seem some progress was made in the amount of work but after meeting with HR girls lied about the work they do. They also said GF said something to them in Polish. Company policy is use English. She did not and was very upset yesterday. She is thinking of quitting Ireland never mind this job.

I am hoping now that another job shows up. Other wise this girl will have a lasting affect on our lives.

Note. These 3 girls are in late 20's & still live with parents. Maybe they too immature to work in professional environment.

krd

They're your typical Irish scummy bitches.

And they're everywhere. Well not everywhere but you'll find a clique of these ignorant women in most businesses.

You should think of leaving Ireland.

gar32

Have you any issue with women in Ireland? krd?

Donore

I think that this happens a lot in offices, I personally work in an office and if you let the other staff load you with work they will always do it. She should stand up and tell her manager how things have been going and what work she has been loaded with. She should also keep a diary of all the extra work she has been given and on what dates, keeping a note beside the who has been passing this to her. If HR does not look into this on an official basis she should look at a website called Reachout.com as they have a very informative page on Bullying in the workplace.

I know this because it is happening to my son at this moment with his job and is currently out of work sick due to stress/bullying.

Best of luck

dirtyghettokid

To the OP, it's unfortunate that not much can be done about bitchy girls in work. Your GF did the right thing by going to management/HR. If she can't get anywhere with them, she would be better off in another job. I know times are tough though. Hopefully she can stick it out and things will change for the better for her.

Donore wrote: »

I know this because it is happening to my son at this moment with his job and is currently out of work sick due to stress/bullying.

Bullying is something that is very very difficult to fight. You're nearly better off just quitting and going elsewhere. Five years ago I was in the same situation as your son. I went to my union about it after management failed to sort the situation and they took it to the labour courts. It's very lengthy and you don't always get properly compensated. Life is too short to stay in a sh1t job being bullied! It's amazing that you think when your a kid that bullying is in the school yard only.......but no, it continues throughout life! So many unhappy people............

gar32 wrote: »

Have you any issue with women in Ireland? krd?

I know I have! I've never been able to make friends with Irish women in jobs. The lads? Not a bother! But Irish women stick to their pack. The one job I held that was with many nationalities working in the company was the best craic ever!

listermint

I believe this is a trait displayed in most offices that have majority of women working in them, my girlfriend works in an office exclusively with women. There is 1 man in the office but he sits outside the work area. There are aorund 8 of them in the office and frankly the moaning bitching and back stabbing that goes on is incredible. The Director is too thick to employ some males in the office that may calm some of this down. Women dont tend to have half the 'attitude' problem when they are surrounded by the opposite sex. Must be a primal thing about displaying your good side. But they have turned over about 4 staff in the past 6 months in this small office.

You would think that at this stage the director would have the cop to see his policy of employing women doesnt work for cohesion. This has been brought to managements attention numerous times but it is completely disregarded, There is a core of 2 women that cause the issues but they tend to drag others into the fold.

Having re-read my post it looks like im completely slating women in the working environment, thats not the case. I just believe from experience that there needs to be a mix maintained, it is the only way to water down these experiences. ( it is a sales / account managment role) so in no way exculsively female.

dirtyghettokid

^^^ I have to agree with you, and I am a woman!

Magenta

listermint wrote: »

I believe this is a trait displayed in most offices that have majority of women working in them, my girlfriend works in an office exclusively with women. There is 1 man in the office but he sits outside the work area. There are aorund 8 of them in the office and frankly the moaning bitching and back stabbing that goes on is incredible. The Director is too thick to employ some males in the office that may calm some of this down. Women dont tend to have half the 'attitude' problem when they are surrounded by the opposite sex. Must be a primal thing about displaying your good side. But they have turned over about 4 staff in the past 6 months in this small office.

You would think that at this stage the director would have the cop to see his policy of employing women doesnt work for cohesion. This has been brought to managements attention numerous times but it is completely disregarded, There is a core of 2 women that cause the issues but they tend to drag others into the fold.

Having re-read my post it looks like im completely slating women in the working environment, thats not the case. I just believe from experience that there needs to be a mix maintained, it is the only way to water down these experiences. ( it is a sales / account managment role) so in no way exculsively female.

dirtyghettokid wrote: »

^^^ I have to agree with you, and I am a woman!

Absolutely. I would never, ever work in an office that was all women.

Aglomerado

Magenta wrote: »

Absolutely. I would never, ever work in an office that was all women.

Nor me, I did it in my first job and it was HORRIBLE. It was just backbiting and bitching and I used to wonder what they would say about me when I went out of the room.

I work with several men now, and generally get on better with them than I do with the other women in the place.

krd

gar32 wrote: »

Have you any issue with women in Ireland? krd?

I'm not the only one. As you'll see on the thread there are actually plenty of other people who will back me up.

There's a certain kind of woman - and this isn't just an Irish thing it goes on everywhere.

A certain kind of woman who should by right be completely unemployable - instead they're in high demand.

They're bitchy, lazy, stupid - always causing trouble - sabotaging the workplace when they can. Thick. Horrible people on so many levels. They only like, or get on with people they think are exactly like them. You can spot these people a mile off. They're your average sour bacon and cabbage Irish women. Not stop awfulness - everything is a drama. Not a single opportunity to cause grief is let pass.

They are generally loved by Irish employers - they're the first to get hired, last to get fired. They never get told to cop themselves on. It's so strange - they create a terrible atmosphere and they rarely get to told to sling their hook.

They also have their male equivalents.

HR people might go on about the importance of having everyone "fit in" but they'll usually got out of their way to accommodate these people. These people can not "fit in" unless they're surrounded by people exactly like them. Even then, they'll still cause trouble. The way a HR will look at it, is they have to pick people who'll fit in with the bitches. Really, hiring liabilities.

What's worse often the HRs will be these thick bitches.

I've worked with these people - it's like being in a Monty Python episode. These people are nuts but they always think of themselves as normal.

The male versions are just as bad.

And it's absolute bliss if on the rare occasion these people are weeded out.

sambuka41

krd wrote: »

They're bitchy, lazy, stupid - always causing trouble - sabotaging the workplace when they can. Thick. Horrible people on so many levels. They only like, or get on with people they think are exactly like them.

What's worse often the HRs will be these thick bitches.

ha yeah and imagine what they are like when they get to management:mad: thats what i had to put up with. So hard to win with them cause somehow they do have this 'holier than tho' attitude and you look like the trouble maker if you say anything against them

looksee

krd wrote: »

I'm not the only one. As you'll see on the thread there are actually plenty of other people who will back me up.

There's a certain kind of woman - and this isn't just an Irish thing it goes on everywhere.

A certain kind of woman who should by right be completely unemployable - instead they're in high demand.

They're bitchy, lazy, stupid - always causing trouble - sabotaging the workplace when they can. Thick. Horrible people on so many levels. They only like, or get on with people they think are exactly like them. You can spot these people a mile off. They're your average sour bacon and cabbage Irish women. Not stop awfulness - everything is a drama. Not a single opportunity to cause grief is let pass.

They are generally loved by Irish employers - they're the first to get hired, last to get fired. They never get told to cop themselves on. It's so strange - they create a terrible atmosphere and they rarely get to told to sling their hook.

They also have their male equivalents.

HR people might go on about the importance of having everyone "fit in" but they'll usually got out of their way to accommodate these people. These people can not "fit in" unless they're surrounded by people exactly like them. Even then, they'll still cause trouble. The way a HR will look at it, is they have to pick people who'll fit in with the bitches. Really, hiring liabilities.

What's worse often the HRs will be these thick bitches.

I've worked with these people - it's like being in a Monty Python episode. These people are nuts but they always think of themselves as normal.

The male versions are just as bad.

And it's absolute bliss if on the rare occasion these people are weeded out.

If they have male equivalents why are you talking about thick bitches? You are talking about people - in a very hysterical and generalising way, but if you can throw in the odd 'men are just as bad' remark to keep yourself out of trouble, there is no justification for the gender specific nature of the rest of your tirade.

And how can you say with any rationality 'A certain kind of woman who should by right be completely unemployable - instead they're in high demand' Have you any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

In all areas of life there are people you would wish to avoid, and unfortunately you sometimes have to work beside them. You don't have to like them, and you may have to be careful what you say around them, but beyond that you communicate to the extent necessary for work, and ignore them otherwise.

krd

looksee wrote: »

If they have male equivalents why are you talking about thick bitches? You are talking about people - in a very hysterical and generalising way, but if you can throw in the odd 'men are just as bad' remark to keep yourself out of trouble, there is no justification for the gender specific nature of the rest of your tirade.

And how can you say with any rationality 'A certain kind of woman who should by right be completely unemployable - instead they're in high demand' Have you any idea how ridiculous that sounds?

In all areas of life there are people you would wish to avoid, and unfortunately you sometimes have to work beside them. You don't have to like them, and you may have to be careful what you say around them, but beyond that you communicate to the extent necessary for work, and ignore them otherwise.

I agree it's a generalisation. It's a fair generalisation though. You may not have noticed the subject of the thread is gender specific.

And these people should be unemployable but they are not. And it is ridiculous. I have had to work with people that it was unbelievable to me they were not hauled off the floor and sacked for their carry on. I know there's often a grubby politics to it. Some people are protected. They should be unemployable. I've worked in call centres - where I have done quality control. That's where you listen in on the calls. I would listen to these horrible bitches do horrible things to the customers - gross misconduct and just sickening. I would report them. They wouldn't even get disciplined. Back to their sneery little bitch old ways - having a little titter with the slimy line manager. Then some poor sap would make a minor mistake on a monitored call and they'd get the sack. I know these girls - they'll tootle around. They walk easily from one job to another, usually no qualifications (which is a plus) - then they eventually hit the jackpot and land 45k to do they payroll some place. Or get into HR.

But the arseholes are evenly distributed among the genders. Another place I worked. Our ignorant man with a van. Who kept lying to us about where he was and lying to customers - taking half days to go watch matches - starting early weekends. Sure begorra - all he had to do was claim there was no one in when he tried to make a delivery. Then we'd have people screaming at us. He even used to tell customers to **** off when they called him. Would they fire him? Begorra no, sure wasn't he a salt of the earth paddy. They'd fire other people on a whim - but not our ignorant fat slimy van driver. I had to deal with that man enough times and I can tell you he was a complete arsehole. Some people are protected.


You can avoid who you like in your own free time. At work it's a very different story. You can't just ignore people if they're causing you problems.

And basically, the kind of bitchy girls in the header of the thread are precisely the kind who will go out of their way to cause problems for people. They'll come after you - even if they're not after you, you have to keep a constant eye on them. They're scum. And anyone who likes scummy people is a little scummy themselves.

And it's not as simple as keeping your mouth shut and your head down. Trust me - you can keep your mouth shut. Arseholes simply do not like anyone who is not like them.

A friend was laid off from her job a few months back. She was hauled into the office for a little chat and told such and such woman, who she didn't work with, thought she was unfriendly because she didn't talk to her. So my friend tries to make the effort and makes small talk with this woman. They really had nothing in common anyhow. She then gets pulled into the office for another little chat - and told such and such woman doesn't like her - so much for the effort. My friends job didn't involve working with anyone else - she just answered the phone and took orders. She wasn't even in the same room as anyone else. Then she gets taken in for another little chat and told it wasn't working out - that she wasn't getting on with everyone else. Good bye. She's not a freak. She's a very warm, friendly and intelligent person. She's not the slightest bit bitchy. I would put money on it - that if she had been bovine dull and bit of an arsehole, she'd still have her job.


Honestly, looksee, what would you do? And I bet you'd be hysterical if you had to put up with a constant campaign of arseholes trying to force you out of your job. Trust me - it's a living hell.

looksee

krd, I have in fact 'been there, done that' in a situation that involved a woman just as you describe. I don't think that one example is sufficient excuse to rant about women generally though. The thread started about some specific women, it isn't helpful to try to turn it into a female-bashing thread.

krd

looksee wrote: »

krd, I have in fact 'been there, done that' in a situation that involved a woman just as you describe. I don't think that one example is sufficient excuse to rant about women generally though. The thread started about some specific women, it isn't helpful to try to turn it into a female-bashing thread.

Then you know precisely what I'm talking about. And this not about female-bashing. Women have a terrible experience of these people too - possibly worse. They can't be all be misogynists.

These are not isolated incidents - it's an ingrained part of Irish culture. I could wheel out the horror stories. And they are very serious. A friend (a woman) ended up in a mental hospital over this kind of stuff. Torturing someone into hospital through a campaign of bitchy bullying is just as violent as hospitalising them through giving them a savage beating - even worse as the torture can go on and on for months or even years. Driving someone out of their job because you don't like them, is worse than breaking into their house and stealing everything they own.

Ireland is a very sexist country. I didn't make it that way. It's the way the majority of Irish people want it. They like backwardness - what can you do.

It's really all about culture. The fable of all women being nurturers and carers is lovely and heart warming - but is it true?

Ireland is dominated by arseholes - snide, sneering, horrible people. The office bitch is just one very common flavour of arsehole. I hate them. Many other men and women also hate them. But to the dominant culture, they are the salt of the earth. Why can't we call a spade a spade. It's not like we're calling them shovels. It's not like I can cause any of these ignorant women harm by saying what they're like.

sambuka41

looksee wrote: »

The thread started about some specific women, it isn't helpful to try to turn it into a female-bashing thread.

I am female (and would consider myself a feminist too) before i say anything else!!! BUT sometimes we as women find it hard to admit our faults,we spent so long defending and saying that we are equal that it can be hard to back track. But truth is women can be seriously bitchy and at times do not work well together. The same is not necessarily true of men (there are problems on their work performance in other ways im sure but not in this regard, or not as often as it is the case with women) And its not female bashing to say that.

For the OP these girls are bullying her, they are socially excluding her, they are setting unrealistic demands of her work, and they are women. My personal opinion is that we as women are our own worst enemies.

Darlughda

Yes been there. Am a feminist, and will never work in an office populated by the majority (including management) as female.

This phenomenon is worse the more corporate looking the organisation is, and the more well-paid, secure and cushy the jobs are.

Without exception, a healthy dose of males vs:female ratio changes this nasty dynamic.

However, KMd. or whatever, do lose the anti-Irish thing. This is a western global phenomenon. I experienced this with tribunals in Britain. In the US, it is by all accounts, way, way worse.