Conduct Unbecoming a Member of Fianna Fáil

raymon

He allegedly lied , cheated , forged , misrepresented and waffled through his defence .

I dont understand why he got kicked out Fianna Fail !!

thebaldsoprano

In before this gets moved to AH...

I thought he'd told the truth there for a moment!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Shea O'Meara

raymon wrote: »

He allegedly lied , cheated , forged , misrepresented and waffled through his defence .

I dont understand why he got kicked out Fianna Fail !!

He got caught, but more importantly than anything listed above, he's not taking any votes with him.

sesna

Surely the ultimate oxymoron.

Hope people realise he's purely a sacrificial lamb as billions are pumped into Anglo Irish Bank etc.

The Raven.

:eek::eek::eek::eek: He must have done something honest!!

Oh well! Now he is planning to 'concentrate on clearing his name before the Seanad Select Committee'. That will keep him busy for a few years !

Overheal

Not to sound like the foreigner but: Who?

The Raven.

Overheal wrote: »

Not to sound like the foreigner but: Who?

Shh!!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0825/1224277544671.html

raymon

Does this mean that all the liars, cheats, forgers , misrepresenters and wafflers will now have to leave Fianna Fail ???

There will be very few left I fear .

I recommend that FF allow all their liars, cheats, forgers , misrepresenters and wafflers to stay in the party - to make up the numbers

Cookie_Monster

it's cos he was caught 3 times.

the old three strike gets you booted

syklops

Are we going to get our 80,000 back?

If I diddled the expenses in the company I work I would get the sack and have to pay the money back.

Callan57

syklops wrote: »

Are we going to get our 80,000 back?

If I diddled the expenses in the company I work I would get the sack and have to pay the money back.

As Mr Gogarty would say 'will we f**k'

hallelujajordan

Kudos to FF for taking a hard stance against Ivor Callelly . . Surely a sign that FF is willing and ready to stand up and tackle its problems from within . .

jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So were a few others, but as wisely pointed out he doesn't have a necessary vote.
lawlor, burke, haughey, flynns, ahern all had stenches about them, but they were/have been kept around until last minute.

callely was not even popular in the party as was evident by the fact the councillors throughout the country couldn't be ar***d voting him into the senate.

Please remember folks that this man was appointed to the senate by bertie ahern as one of his nominees, along with that other fine fellow eoghan harris. :rolleyes:

This man is not even an elected representative of any sort. :mad:

jmayo

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Kudos to FF for taking a hard stance against Ivor Callelly . . Surely a sign that FF is willing and ready to stand up and tackle its problems from within . .

Ahh the voice of a soldier of dysentery trying to grab a bit of positive headlines out of it.

Any chance you will take a hard stance against the other unethical individuals in the high ranks of the party.
You can start with the slanderer and liar form Limerick. :rolleyes:

Sulmac

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Kudos to FF for taking a hard stance against Ivor Callelly . . Surely a sign that FF is willing and ready to stand up and tackle its problems from within . .

...except he was the one who resigned from Fianna Fáil several weeks after the entire thing started. All the party had done was start to investigate him.

If they had any standards, he would have been kicked out as soon as they knew about his fraudulent actions.

Laminations

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Kudos to FF for taking a hard stance against Ivor Callelly . . Surely a sign that FF is willing and ready to stand up and tackle its problems from within . .

Funny stuff. I'd have thought expulsion from the party would have been dealing with it properly, and at that I wouldn't call it a hard stance. Him resigning says nothing about what FF thinks of his behaviour, it's akin to an honourable discharge

EDIT: Sulmac got there first

PeterIanStaker

sesna wrote: »

Surely the ultimate oxymoron.

Hope people realise he's purely a sacrificial lamb as billions are pumped into Anglo Irish Bank etc.

Its so true. He's a pawn in chess really.

murphaph

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Its so true. He's a pawn in chess really.

He's not a pawn. The taxpayer who is bankrolling the likes of Callely and Anglo are the pawns.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Kudos to FF for taking a hard stance against Ivor Callelly . . Surely a sign that FF is willing and ready to stand up and tackle its problems from within . .

Are you joking ????

Bev Flynn ?? JOD?? Willy o Dea ??? Bertie?? An those are just a small fraction .

You were joking ..... right ??

FF is rotten to the core :mad:

PeterIanStaker

murphaph wrote: »

He's not a pawn. The taxpayer who is bankrolling the likes of Callely and Anglo are the pawns.

I meant in their game. A smokescreen would've been a better comparison, either way he's a nobody and his departure makes f**k all difference.

hallelujajordan

Sulmac wrote: »

...except he was the one who resigned from Fianna Fáil several weeks after the entire thing started. All the party had done was start to investigate him.

If they had any standards, he would have been kicked out as soon as they knew about his fraudulent actions.

Ever hear of due process ? We are all entitled to it even if it appears that we have misbehaved . .

He lost the party whip . .

He then got suspended from the party . .

He finally resigned when it was clear that an investigation was going to recommend his removal !

This is how it should always be !

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

Are you joking ????

Bev Flynn ?? JOD?? Willy o Dea ??? Bertie?? An those are just a small fraction .

You were joking ..... right ??

FF is rotten to the core :mad:

No, I am not joking . . honestly I think the way FF handled Callelly should be the template for any future case . .

Laminations

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No, I am not joking . . honestly I think the way FF handled Callelly should be the template for any future case . .

I prefer the 'no nonsense' approach

Gordon Brown received a blow tonight on the eve of the publication of MPs' expenses when he was forced to sack Kitty Ussher as a junior Treasury minister in the face of evidence that she "flipped" her homes to avoid paying capital gains tax.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/17/mps-expenses-kitty-ussher

you can scream due process all you want but I think we have plenty of evidence for FF to have responded to Callelys abuse in a far stronger manner then Cowen mumbling something about 'more questions than answers'. He shouldve been sacked, and if you weren't such an apologist you'd recognise that

Sleepy

hallelujajordan wrote: »

This is how it should always be !

No, it's not.

Any person being paid by the taxpayer found acting in such a manner should be fired and stripped of all pension rights. I don't care what service they've done the country in the past, how many votes they pull in for the party or what a grand fella their daddy was. If the rest of my countrymen don't have the stomach to see them shot (as I'd have it), let us make sure we make the legal changes necessary so the likes of Callely, Ahern, Neary et al can be held accountable for their actions and incompetency in the future.

No more golden handshakes. No more unvouched expenses. No more state pensions for those who didn't even earn their salaries.

Honourable Conduct or death by firing squad.

hallelujajordan

Laminations wrote: »

I prefer the 'no nonsense' approach

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jun/17/mps-expenses-kitty-ussher
you can scream due process all you want but I think we have plenty of evidence for FF to have responded to Callelys abuse in a far stronger manner then Cowen mumbling something about 'more questions than answers'. He shouldve been sacked, and if you weren't such an apologist you'd recognise that

No, I wouldn't . . I don't agree with trial by media and I think everybody is entitled to due process whether they exist within FF or anywhere else.

And btw, I'm not apologising (and never have done) for FF . . In this case, I am congratulating them on their actions.

Also, if you read the article you linked to you will see that Ussher resigned on foot of pressure from Gordon Brown (much like Callelly did yesterday) and to my knowledge was never suspended or expelled from the British Labour Party (unlike Callelly)

Sleepy wrote: »

No, it's not.

Any person being paid by the taxpayer found acting in such a manner should be fired and stripped of all pension rights. I don't care what service they've done the country in the past, how many votes they pull in for the party or what a grand fella their daddy was. If the rest of my countrymen don't have the stomach to see them shot (as I'd have it), let us make sure we make the legal changes necessary so the likes of Callely, Ahern, Neary et al can be held accountable for their actions and incompetency in the future.

No more golden handshakes. No more unvouched expenses. No more state pensions for those who didn't even earn their salaries.

Honourable Conduct or death by firing squad.

In general I agree (except the bit about death by firing squad !) . . . however, what you raise here is nothing to do with removing someone from a political party. . . The point you raise is about removing someone from elected office which actually raises serious constitutional issues. . the electorate put each of these people into position, should anyone other than the electorate have the power to remove them ? (I understand its different for nominated senators!)

flutered

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No, I am not joking . . honestly I think the way FF handled Callelly should be the template for any future case . .

i am assuming that the words dignity, honour, plus bear responsibility are missing from both your and f.f. (fcukin failures) dictionary.

jmayo

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Ever hear of due process ? We are all entitled to it even if it appears that we have misbehaved . .

He lost the party whip . .

He then got suspended from the party . .

He finally resigned when it was clear that an investigation was going to recommend his removal !

This is how it should always be !

Ah the old chestnut of due process.
Funny how soldiers of dysentery resort to this at some stage.
Sure isn't bertie getting due process ? :rolleyes:
Isn't seanie fitz and fingers fingelton getting due process ?

Isn't it about time the taxpayers got due process and promptly at that ?

Meanwhile the person draws a salary and expenses paid for by the mugs the taxpayers.

This whole episode has rasied some interesting questions that I have only heard discussed on one show and by Shane Ross, who is about the only reason the senate should still exist.


This person was NOT ELECTED to his position.
Thus the thing about elected representatives only being sackable by the electorate is a crock of shi** in this case.


What standards and laws does an elected reprsentative have to break to be not allowed hold elected office in this banana republic.

Examples:
michael lowry confirmed tax evasion yet has been allwoed stand for re-election and even worse re-elected.

bev flynn confirmed facilitator of tax evasion, bankrupt due to legal action against arm of state that later reached agreement with her, yet she has been allowed stand for election.

stroke fahy found guilty of fraud and illegally obtaining services and materials fromthe council for personal use i.e. theft, served time in prison yet allowed stand for local elections.

martin ferris found guilty of gun running for an illegal paramilitary organisation who had a stated aim of overthrowing the legal apparatus of the state, later he became an apologist for Garda murderers, yet he can stand for election.

Hell in this state larry murphy could stand for election.

aDeener

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

damned if you do, damned if you don't :rolleyes:

Essexboy

"In March this year Labour MPs Elliot Morley, David Chaytor, Jim Devine also appeared at the same court to face charges in relation to their expenses.

Lord Hanningfield, known as Paul White, also appeared."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1302891/Former-Tory-peer-accused-fiddling-expenses-faces-court.html#ixzz0xe28vAOF

When, if ever, will Ivor the Conniver appear in the District Court?

paddyland

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Kudos to FF for taking a hard stance against Ivor Callelly . . Surely a sign that FF is willing and ready to stand up and tackle its problems from within . .

Kudos my backside. Fianna Failure will HAPPILY hang, draw and quarter Callely, if they think they can make another great LIE out of it, Fianna Fáil 'dealing' with corruption. If we all see Callely hung out to dry, we might all say that's great, corruption dealt with, move on, don't mention Bertie, Beverley, O'Dea, O'Donoghue, Dempsey, or any of the rest.

Fianna Fáil is up to it's greasy, stinking neck in corruption, and COVER UP. One sacrificial lamb will not do as an appeasement, no sorry, not ever. FF out, out, out, the whole shagging lot of them, apologists all.

Callan57

paddyland wrote: »

Kudos my backside. Fianna Failure will HAPPILY hang, draw and quarter Callely, if they think they can make another great LIE out of it, Fianna Fáil 'dealing' with corruption. If we all see Callely hung out to dry, we might all say that's great, corruption dealt with, move on, don't mention Bertie, Beverley, O'Dea, O'Donoghue, Dempsey, or any of the rest.

Fianna Fáil is up to it's greasy, stinking neck in corruption, and COVER UP. One sacrificial lamb will not do as an appeasement, no sorry, not ever. FF out, out, out, the whole shagging lot of them, apologists all.

Wholehearted agree ... they have no moral compass whatsoever

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

And btw, I'm not apologising (and never have done) for FF . . In this case, I am congratulating them on their actions.

I really did think you were joking !!

How can you say that FF should be congratulated , when they rally around with Bev (illegal Investments) Flynn , Willy ( let me tell you a lie) O Dea , John ( First Class Travel) O Donoghue , and Bertie ( I won it all on a horse) Ahern , carried high on their shoulders.

Halleluja - your party is sick , and is getting sicker , because it doesnt realise that it is sick .

I am not against any party but I will never vote for FF because many top members are corrupt , just because I will never vote for SF because many of their top members are ex IRA murderers .

FF is really rotten to the core -that why Ivor thought that he did nothing wrong :mad:

expectationlost

did the fianna fail investigative committee release a statement

or write a unpublished review

goose2005

jmayo wrote: »

Ahh the voice of a soldier of dysentery trying to grab a bit of positive headlines out of it.

Any chance you will take a hard stance against the other unethical individuals in the high ranks of the party.
You can start with the slanderer and liar form Limerick. :rolleyes:

But the Limerick liar got 20,000 votes last time. FF's only purpose is to attain and maintain power, and WOD still has a little of it.

hallelujajordan

jmayo wrote: »

Ah the old chestnut of due process.
Funny how soldiers of dysentery resort to this at some stage.
Sure isn't bertie getting due process ? :rolleyes:
Isn't seanie fitz and fingers fingelton getting due process ?

I'm amazed at how the guardians of the high moral ground on here are so quick to abandon the principle of due process . . I hope you never end up having to rely on it yourselves. .

Due process is important. . the right to a presumption of innocence is fundamental to a democracy so lets not be so quick to throw it in the bin . . .

I do agree that in general due process needs to move quicker but in this case it has. . . just look at the timeline :

30 May : Callelly scandal breaks about his home in Cork
1 Jun : Cowen demands a written explanation
5 Jun : Callelly resigns the FF party whip
July : Senate committee investigates and he is suspended without pay for 20 days
1 Aug : Mobile phone scandal breaks
3 Aug : Callelly suspended from FF
24 Aug : Callelly resigns from FF following an internal investigation . .

You people have lost perspective on this . . I accept your views on some of the other scandals (don't necessarily agree with them !) but in this case you need to accept that process worked well and worked quickly. Its a good sign for the future

jmayo wrote:

This whole episode has rasied some interesting questions that I have only heard discussed on one show and by Shane Ross, who is about the only reason the senate should still exist.


This person was NOT ELECTED to his position.
Thus the thing about elected representatives only being sackable by the electorate is a crock of shi** in this case.

Accept that, but his position is protected under the constitution and it looks like there is no way to remove him from office without a referendum . .

Article 18, Section 9 . .

Every member of Seanad Éireann shall, unless he dies,
resigns, or becomes disqualified, continue to hold office until
the day before the polling day of the general election for
Seanad Éireann next held after his election or nomination.

paddyland wrote: »

Kudos my backside. Fianna Failure will HAPPILY hang, draw and quarter Callely, if they think they can make another great LIE out of it, Fianna Fáil 'dealing' with corruption. If we all see Callely hung out to dry, we might all say that's great, corruption dealt with, move on, don't mention Bertie, Beverley, O'Dea, O'Donoghue, Dempsey, or any of the rest.

Fianna Fáil is up to it's greasy, stinking neck in corruption, and COVER UP. One sacrificial lamb will not do as an appeasement, no sorry, not ever. FF out, out, out, the whole shagging lot of them, apologists all.

You are way off topic here . . the cases you mention are not even comparable. . . O'Dea, O'Donoghue, Dempsey?? were never even accused, never mind investigated for corruption . .

raymon wrote: »

I really did think you were joking !!


Halleluja - your party is sick , and is getting sicker , because it doesnt realise that it is sick .

I accept your view. Will you accept my view that in this case the FF organisation have dealt with the Callelly issue in the manner that we should expect . . . tough, swift but fair ?

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I accept your view. Will you accept my view that in this case the FF organisation have dealt with the Callelly issue in the manner that we should expect . . . tough, swift but fair ?

Dear halleluja - I am sorry - I absolutely do not accept any of your apologist views. Your party is a party of liars , forgers , misrepresenters, and otherwise morally bankrupt individuals

They were not tough on Callely - after he got his house painted , bertie elected him to the Seanad. He was rewarded for his corruption.

They were not swift- nobody would comment on Callely - there were "no comments" all around.

They were not fair callely should have been sacked once his alleged thievery was exposed

The only reason that he got kicked out of FF was that "he pissed on Cowan's chips " by questioning Cowan's leadership. Otherwise they would all have rallied around him like gombeen men . They have done time and time again for many of his crooked predecessors . ( do you want the list again Bertie , Lawlor , Beverley Flynn, etc etc ad nauseum)

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

No, I am not joking . . honestly I think the way FF handled Callelly should be the template for any future case . .

How about currently ongoing cases, like Ahern ?

We still haven't heard from that Tribunal.

As for the Constitution protecting scum like Callely; well considering all of the bull**** laws and taxes and the fact that they imposed NAMA on us without invoking the Constitution, is there any chance that THOSE WHO MAKE THE LAWS AND DECIDE ON REFERENDA might actually organise one that suits the people for a change ?

And don't talk to me about costs, etc; Lisbon goes against the way they want it; they run it again....

Why not organise a referendum to remove all of the loopholes that allow those like Callely and Ahern to stay in highly overpaid "jobs" at our expense ?

Now THAT would be putting the country first.

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

.

They were not swift- nobody would comment on Callely - there were "no comments" all around.

If you don't believe that the timeline I posted above is swift then I can't debate with you. . If all of these issues were dealt with in this kind of timeframe we would have a far cleaner political system.

raymon wrote:

They were not fair callely should have been sacked once his alleged thievery was exposed

Based on newspaper reports ? Without any investigation or opportunity to defend himself ?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How about currently ongoing cases, like Ahern ?

We still haven't heard from that Tribunal.

Agreed, the Tribunals should move quicker and should be more focused. . (Not a FF issue however and way off topic !)

As for the Constitution protecting scum like Callely; well considering all of the bull**** laws and taxes and the fact that they imposed NAMA on us without invoking the Constitution, is there any chance that THOSE WHO MAKE THE LAWS AND DECIDE ON REFERENDA might actually organise one that suits the people for a change ?

I totally agree with you . . I think a constitutional referendum that does something to reinforce standards in public office would be a great idea . . I would love to see FF pushing such a referendum . . I doubt however that either they or the next government will.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Based on newspaper reports ? Without any investigation or opportunity to defend himself ?
.

Dear Halleluja

There you go again - the problem with FF is that it doesnt know that its actions are corrupt and despicable (you included) . FF will remain corrupt and sick until its self realisation .

Ivor's guilt is not based on newspaper reports

Fact : He caused a hit and run in a boat in cork
Fact : He got his house painted for free by contractors (who were seeking govt contracts)
Fact : He used forged instruments to gain monetary benefit

Ivor is a slimeball - that is clear

What is not clear is why you are defending him and why it took FF so long to expel him

Are you Ivor ??? Or one of his family ??? Surely not a member of the public that Callely allegedly thieved from with his expenses claims

Here is another one of those "scurrilous" newspaper reports that FF hates to read !!!!

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/fionnan-sheahan/fionnan-sheahan-the-spirit-of-haughey-and-ahern-lives-on-in-callely-2311898.html

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

Dear Halleluja

There you go again - the problem with FF is that it doesnt know that its actions are corrupt and despicable (you included) . FF will remain corrupt and sick until its self realisation .

Ivor's guilt is not based on newspaper reports

Fact : He caused a hit and run in a boat in cork
Fact : He got his house painted for free by contractors (who were seeking govt contracts)
Fact : He used forged instruments to gain monetary benefit

Let me clear . . I am not defending Ivor Callelly or suggesting that he is innocent of any of these charges. . .

However, let me ask you a question . . How do you know these facts to be true ? Did you read it in a newspaper or do you have a more direct link that allows you review the materials directly and have you spoken to Ivor and given him the opportunity to provide his side of the story ?

That's all I'm saying ! Due process means carrying out an investigation, establishing the facts for yourself (rather than reading a newspaper), and then take firm action . . the process doesn't have to take very long and in this case the process moved quickly and effectively.

I know, and Fianna Fail knows that Ivor Callelly's actions were corrupt. That is why they acted in the way they have.

raymon wrote:

What is not clear is why you are defending him and why it took FF so long to expel him

Please point me to where I have defended Callelly. . I'm happy to debate with you but please read my posts first and lets debate our actual opinions rather than the opinions you presume i have because I am a member of FF.

raymon

If you want a real debate - Halleluja - lets debate what FF plans to do about

Willy o Dea
Bev Flynn
John O Donoghue
Bertie Ahern

Hopefully your reply will include the swift action that the party now plans to take

Craptacular

If I cheated on my expenses in work you can be damn sure "due process" would happen a lot quicker than three months.

Even the most ardent Fianna Failure must have seen the damage Ivor's thieving was doing to the party and the longer it goes on the more damage it does. He may have resigned but he was caught robbing when he was a FF TD and was rewarded with a Seanad seat where, surprise surprise, he carried on robbing. I don't believe for a second he would have been kicked out of the party if he hadn't resigned.

In FF's eyes his crime was getting caught and ignoring Cowen's calls.

raymon

Craptacular wrote: »

If I cheated on my expenses in work you can be damn sure "due process" would happen a lot quicker than three months.

Even the most ardent Fianna Failure must have seen the damage Ivor's thieving was doing to the party and the longer it goes on the more damage it does. He may have resigned but he was caught robbing when he was a FF TD and was rewarded with a Seanad seat where, surprise surprise, he carried on robbing. I don't believe for a second he would have been kicked out of the party if he hadn't resigned.

In FF's eyes his crime was getting caught and ignoring Cowen's calls.

I agree totally with you - only for he ignored Cowan and questioned his leadership skills - all of these FF sleeveens would have rallied around him - with stuff like " we are waiting on due process " etc etc for months until it blew over .

Rotten to the core

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

If you want a real debate - Halleluja - lets debate what FF plans to do about

Willy o Dea
Bev Flynn
John O Donoghue
Bertie Ahern

Hopefully your reply will include the swift action that the party now plans to take

So, you've given up and are taking me off topic to try to prove your point ? ?

I have expressed my views on all of the above in a wide range of threads here and am happy to do so again . . . start the threads and lets debate. .

For now, this thread is about how FF have dealt with Ivor Callelly

hallelujajordan

Craptacular wrote: »

If I cheated on my expenses in work you can be damn sure "due process" would happen a lot quicker than three months.

Even the most ardent Fianna Failure must have seen the damage Ivor's thieving was doing to the party and the longer it goes on the more damage it does. He may have resigned but he was caught robbing when he was a FF TD and was rewarded with a Seanad seat where, surprise surprise, he carried on robbing.

Don't kid yourself .. . I don't know where you work but I would be very surprised if you don't have a disciplinary and appeals procedure that will afford you due process and may not move as quickly as you imagine. . . you also have the opportunity to use the labour court and other legal mechanisms to ensure you get a fair hearing.

I don't believe for a second he would have been kicked out of the party if he hadn't resigned.

This doesn't stack up . . its clear to anyone observing from the outside that he resigned to avoid what was coming otherwise..

Craptacular

Nope, he quit because they wouldn't give him more time to try and cover up and vanish from the front pages. Once he was gone it's easy to expel him instead of giving him a strong warning and telling him to pay it back or promote him to chief fundraiser or whatever FF do to their thieving members. No doubt if they'd actually sacked him it would just be for a short while like Bev.

I can tell you for a fact that it wouldn't be 3 months before a committe was assembled to talk to me. I'd be called in on the day it was discovered and an explanation demanded. Asking for a couple of weeks to investigate my own fraud would be unheard of but that was what Ivor was given.

raymon

hallelujajordan wrote: »

So, you've given up and are taking me off topic to try to prove your point ? ?

I have expressed my views on all of the above in a wide range of threads here and am happy to do so again . . . start the threads and lets debate. .

For now, this thread is about how FF have dealt with Ivor Callelly

You win Halleluja

I was wrong

Fianna Fail is full of honest , moral , upstanding role models . (Bertie , Cowan , B Flynn, JoD,WoD all great statesmen and women)

Ivor is innocent on all counts. (At least for a few years until his legal challenges go through)

Charlie, Lawlor , P Flynn , B Flynn, JoD, WoD, Bertie, Burke , Albert etc were all excellent people .

What else ????

Oh yeah , there are no thieves, liars, scumbags, perjurers in FF
Clean as a whistle

Well done

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

For now, this thread is about how FF have dealt with Ivor Callelly

The thread title is "Conduct Unbecoming a Member of Fianna Fáil".

You've repeatedly called for "due process", however let me ask you this.......as far as I am aware, Callely said to the committee - when asked a direct question - "Sure no-one would admit to that".

THAT ALONE is conduct unbecoming a PUBLIC REPRESENTATIVE, let alone the actual goings-on that necessitated the committee in the first place.

So - bearing in mind the thread title - what is it that makes Callely's conduction unacceptable, but makes Cooper-Flynn and Ahern's acceptable ?

Is Ray Burke still a member of FF ?

Leaving aside the standards that are unacceptable to most of us here in the real world, what EXACTLY constitutes "conduct unbecoming a member of FF" ? Because - as other posters have indicated - that COULD be interpreted as just disobeying their leader, and have nothing to do with the ACTUAL problem.

What EXACTLY was Callely asked to resign over ?

hallelujajordan

raymon wrote: »

You win Halleluja

I was wrong

Fianna Fail is full of honest , moral , upstanding role models . (Bertie , Cowan , B Flynn, JoD,WoD all great statesmen and women)

Ivor is innocent on all counts. (At least for a few years until his legal challenges go through)

No he isn't ?? I'm not (and have never) defending Callelly . . It feels like whatever I write, you will churn out the same old bile. . I'm wasting my time here . .

raymon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The thread title is "Conduct Unbecoming a Member of Fianna Fáil".

Agreed - this thread is not specifically about Ivor's corruption - it is to debate the culture of corruption in FF generally .

i.e.why was Ivors behaviour considered "unbecoming" when there are so many others (past and present) slithering around the corridors of Leinster House