Garda Checkpoint criteria

gurramok

Well I was driving along this road and came across the Gardai doing their bit.

What I do not understand is why they just wave drivers on without checking the state of the driver. I could of have 10 pints drunk and yet the Garda just waved me on. It appears their reserve area for questioning/breathalyser action was full in this video which from memory was taken in an early evening in July.

Any thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tY-KfpUgF8

Random

there's gotta be a line between public safety / policing and holding everyone on a busy road for more than 5 mins.

Senna

I'm guessing it was a random checkpoint, meaning they dont stop every single car, just cars as random. If they stopped every car the tailback would runs for miles, they have a duty to keep trafic moving as best as possible.
Late night checkpoints on quite roads normally stop every car.

gurramok

Random wrote: »

there's gotta be a line between public safety / policing and holding everyone on a busy road for more than 5 mins.

So its random checking then

scooby2791

I'm also pretty sure they would be able to spot a drunk with relative ease, can you really imagine someone with ten pints on them being able to slow down and carefully drive between those orange cones and uniformed gardaí.

gurramok

scooby2791 wrote: »

I'm also pretty sure they would be able to spot a drunk with relative ease, can you really imagine someone with ten pints on them being able to slow down and carefully drive between those orange cones and uniformed gardaí.

Well its quite easily to do assuming you have been drinking over a long period of time, just don't lose your nerves And no I have never driven with 10 pints on me before

What i'm thinking is why couldnt they just speak for a few seconds to each driver to check all is ok? As another poster specified, in this case, there was no severe backup of traffic.

Esel

Depends what the checkpoint is for too.... They could be looking for a specific make/model/type of vehicle, or a particular individual.

Edit: car vehicle

opinion guy

I've never seen so many cops and ve-hicles at a check point.

They were looking possibly looking for someone.

dr.fuzzenstein

Over the years I have come to distinguish between three different kinds of Garda checkpoints.
First one is tax, insurance, grand, second one is looking for green diesel and third one is looking for someone in specific.
Though recently there seems to be checking for drunk drivers at night, I did see one of those since I came here (1994).
Other than that you could have 10 heads in a duffelbag, a nuke in the boot, 4 bald tires, headlights half full of water (not joking), be on 10 kinds of medication or God knows what. As long as you're an elderly farmer you're pretty much immune it seems and the largest percentage of them seems to be absolutely barking.
Unless you're one of 'dem boyracers. Than you're screwed. You gotta be guilty of something.

_Kaiser_

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Unless you're one of 'dem boyracers. Than you're screwed. You gotta be guilty of something.

Well from looking at the video you seem to be right as one of the cars pulled in is a purple Colt with L plates.

I suppose though they (AGS) should be commended though. Rare to see them out at all - especially outside of the city - and especially doing anything except speed traps at the side of motorways/dual carriageways in my experience.

SC024

What a waste of perfectly good manpower, The amount of gaurds standing doing nothing...

af_thefragile

During night time they stop everyone.

I was once stopped at the checkpoint at 1am. Actually 2 checkpoints, at Lucan Village, first one was as you enter the village, 2nd one as you were leaving the village heading towards N4. They were stopping everyone and doing breath test...
They had little flashing blue lights on the road and all...


Oh and if you do have L plates on, they'll stop you and check your license and all too. Happened to me once.
They let everyone else off by just checking their tax, insurance, nct disc. Then they came to me and ask for my license and my passenger's license...
This was after midnight as well...

opinion guy

af_thefragile wrote: »

Then they came to me and ask for my license and my passenger's license...
This was after midnight as well...

No
Freaking
Way !?!?

Mr Jinx

gurramok wrote: »

So its random checking then

Yes.... thats why they call it random breath testing.

af_thefragile

opinion guy wrote: »

No
Freaking
Way !?!?

They indeed did.

And the funny thing is, the time when I did the breath test (twice) in Lucan, I didn't have the L plates on (while I was still on provisional) and they just checked the tax,insurance,nct, did the breath test, came zero and let me know. No one asked for license or anything!! On both the checkpoints I was stopped at!

Max Power1

af_thefragile wrote: »

They indeed did.

And the funny thing is, the time when I did the breath test (twice) in Lucan, I didn't have the L plates on (while I was still on provisional) and they just checked the tax,insurance,nct, did the breath test, came zero and let me know. No one asked for license or anything!! On both the checkpoints I was stopped at!

That seemed to be the way when I was on a provisional until recently too. I was never asked for my licence unless I had L plates up (which I only put up when I had an accompanying driver in the car with me)

thats not gone well

one night on my way back into limerick city on o'connell ave. i got stopped, did the full window check, was going to wave me on and then got asked for L-plates because "you look too young to have past your test" :mad:

Plebs

They should not be allowed to stop people going about their business. There ought to be probable cause. I.e. all Gardai must give a reason as to why you were pulled over. (e.g. a broken light, bald tyre, wobbling all over the road, etc.) You should be allowed to sue under some form of harassment/privacy intrusion if no valid reason is given. Randomly picking out men 18 to 40 driving around after 10pm is not grounds to stop someone IMO.

Teferi

Plebs wrote: »

Randomly picking out men 18 to 40 driving around after 10pm is not grounds to stop someone IMO.

Ah...18 - mid/late 20's in real life...

VinnyTGM

Plebs wrote: »

They should not be allowed to stop people going about their business. There ought to be probable cause. I.e. all Gardai must give a reason as to why you were pulled over. (e.g. a broken light, bald tyre, wobbling all over the road, etc.) You should be allowed to sue under some form of harassment/privacy intrusion if no valid reason is given. Randomly picking out men 18 to 40 driving around after 10pm is not grounds to stop someone IMO.

Gardai can stop you for no reason if they want, this isn't the USA.

Plebs

VinnyTGM wrote: »

Gardai can stop you for no reason if they want, this isn't the USA.

My understanding is that they can only stop you without probable cause due to recent ammendments in legislation (Road Traffic Act). Even then, they have to quote the relevant section.

ironclaw

Plebs wrote: »

My understanding is that they can only stop you without probable cause due to recent ammendments in legislation (Road Traffic Act). Even then, they have to quote the relevant section.

To be fair, they could just say they want to check your tires on the grounds of safety. Pull any section and reem it off. I wouldn't challenge it!

User Friendly

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Over the years I have come to distinguish between three different kinds of Garda checkpoints.
First one is tax, insurance, grand, second one is looking for green diesel and third one is looking for someone in specific.

A guard checking for green diesel? i dont think so.
Customs and excise do that job.

VinnyTGM wrote: »

Gardai can stop you for no reason if they want, this isn't the USA.

really? Care to let me know where you learned that?
thought they would have to have probable cause to stop/search you.
cops in the UK cant just stop you without reason.

User Friendly

ironclaw wrote: »

To be fair, they could just say they want to check your tires on the grounds of safety. Pull any section and reem it off. I wouldn't challenge it!

well i certainly wouldnt entertain that nonsense from any guard.

timmywex

If your driving on the roads the gardai can randomly pull you over and stop you.

We're Ireland, we have our own laws.

Infact some units will go out for an 8 hour shift and just pull over random drivers for a variety of reasons, anything from a dirty car to speeding to looking nervous. naturally your not going to get stopped, with the exception of checkpoints unless you look wierd/dodgy

shogunpower

all the gaurd has to say is you were acting in a suspicious manor. he can then pull you over if he wants when he wants.

VinnyTGM

Plebs wrote: »

My understanding is that they can only stop you without probable cause due to recent ammendments in legislation (Road Traffic Act). Even then, they have to quote the relevant section.

User Friendly wrote: »

really? Care to let me know where you learned that?

QUOTE:
"The Gardaí have a common law power to stop motorists at random in order to detect and prevent crime."

SOURCE:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance

It's the last paragraph under "Common law powers".

VinnyTGM

User Friendly wrote: »

cops in the UK cant just stop you without reason.

Yes they can.

QUOTE:
No, the police do not need any reason to stop any person driving, attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road for a routine check. The police can then require that you provide your name, date of birth, driving licence and insurance details. Failure to comply with any of these requirements is an offence.

SOURCE:
https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q723.htm

Thoie

gurramok wrote: »

Well I was driving along this road and came across the Gardai doing their bit.

What I do not understand is why they just wave drivers on without checking the state of the driver. I could of have 10 pints drunk and yet the Garda just waved me on. It appears their reserve area for questioning/breathalyser action was full in this video which from memory was taken in an early evening in July.

Any thoughts?

I've been through similar setups to that on the south quays in Dublin once or twice late at night. They seemed to be pulling in every 4th or 5th car, but even with that there was quite a queue for that hour of night.

garancafan

gurramok wrote: »

So its random checking then

I hope so.

Plebs

VinnyTGM wrote: »

QUOTE:
"The Gardaí have a common law power to stop motorists at random in order to detect and prevent crime."

SOURCE:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/arrests/questioning_and_surveillance

It's the last paragraph under "Common law powers".

The citizens information interpretation is ok for a general overview I suppose. If a politician was canvassing to restrain these powers, I'd be enthusiastic about giving him/her my consideration.

Esel

Plebs wrote: »

The citizens information interpretation is ok for a general overview I suppose. If a politician was canvassing to restrain these powers, I'd be enthusiastic about giving him/her my consideration.

That'll be a possible vote for SF, then.

Loveless

Plebs wrote: »

Randomly picking out men 18 to 40 driving around after 10pm is not grounds to stop someone IMO.

yep, I've been 'randomly' breath-tested 4 times because I drive a lot at night and look like I'm in my late 20's.

Cabaal

Thery have about 4 cars already pulled in so they are limited with space for others, they may be looking for something specific, they have a job to keep traffic moving.

kasper

so people dont want to share the roads with uninsured or drink drivers but when the gardai are maintaining a check point people dont like getting stopped for a few moments , i was only breathlaysed once and i thanked the garda for doing it he might detect someone who had been drinking and the the roads will be safer

MagicSean

Loveless wrote: »

yep, I've been 'randomly' breath-tested 4 times because I drive a lot at night and look like I'm in my late 20's.

You dont think it has anything to do with the fact that you keep driving through the checkpoints? Or are you suggesting they set up the checkpoints just to get you?

shogunpower

shogunpower wrote: »

all the gaurd has to say is you were acting in a suspicious manor. .

I don't think they can watch you inside a house, even if the house does look suspicious...

kasper wrote: »

so people dont want to share the roads with uninsured or drink drivers but when the gardai are maintaining a check point people dont like getting stopped for a few moments , i was only breathlaysed once and i thanked the garda for doing it he might detect someone who had been drinking and the the roads will be safer

Yeah why not do it. The only thing is they could do it maybe a bit more suitable hours than sunday morning or saturday afternoon??

kasper

maybe they should publish times and places where they are going to have their checkpoints so you dont get stopped at all the uninsured or drink drivers would be unlikely read it

PaddyFagan

Loveless wrote: »

yep, I've been 'randomly' breath-tested 4 times because I drive a lot at night and look like I'm in my late 20's.

I think you might be reading too much into this - if you drive a reasonable bit at night I suspect the hit rate (irrespective of age or looks) would be quiet high.

We (my wife was driving) got pulled by a similar random check point on the quays one Sunday afternoon - they just pulled the first 5-6 cars when the lights went green into a coned off strech of bus lane.

Paddy

charlie1966

I'm surprised they didn't pull you over for recording them doing their job. Hope it was the passenger with the camera/phone.

Random road check points have resulted on the capture of major criminals in the past and I think they should be carried out more often and without warning(Not like these useless holiday weekend blitz the Garda warn us about and then don't carry out).
It is very easy to stay on the right side of the law, so if you don't then why shouldn't you be stopped. If you an not breaking any laws then what is the problem of a few seconds inconvenience if it catches someone who shouldn't be on the road.

kasper

also remember if an uninsured or drunk driver hits your car they are not going to hang around leaving you out of pocket , and if they hit a family member of your they are not going to hang around and get a doctor or ambulance, and if that happened you would be screaming why was there nothing done to catch these scum

VinnyTGM

VinnyTGM wrote: »

Yes they can.

QUOTE:
No, the police do not need any reason to stop any person driving, attempting to drive or in charge of a motor vehicle on a road for a routine check. The police can then require that you provide your name, date of birth, driving licence and insurance details. Failure to comply with any of these requirements is an offence.

SOURCE:
https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q723.htm

No they cannot.

Regardless of what that site says. I have lived in London and its a well known thing over there that you cannot be stopped without reason. People were very surprised when I said the garda here can set up checkpoints and stop people for no reason or preform random breath tests etc.

kasper

just remember if you are not breaking the law the gardai are on your side

djimi

Plebs wrote: »

They should not be allowed to stop people going about their business. There ought to be probable cause. I.e. all Gardai must give a reason as to why you were pulled over. (e.g. a broken light, bald tyre, wobbling all over the road, etc.) You should be allowed to sue under some form of harassment/privacy intrusion if no valid reason is given. Randomly picking out men 18 to 40 driving around after 10pm is not grounds to stop someone IMO.

So youd sooner the drunk driver had to cause an accident before the guards are allowed to breath test them?

Personally Id be happy to be breathalized every night on my way home if it meant lessening the chances of me being taken out by a drunk driver. It takes a minute to pass the breath test; Id sooner put up with that minute if it means I dont have to spend the rest of my life in a wheelchair or worse...

djimi

kasper wrote: »

just remember if you are not breaking the law the gardai are on your side

The amount of people who dont understand this concept is amazing. If you have nothing to hide then be polite and friendly and they will respond in kind. Act like a dick and get their back up and of course they are going to come down heavy. Theyre only guys and girls doing their job at the end of the day; ffs if someone p1sses me off on the phone in work itll get my back up, I dont see why the guards should be any different. Difference between me and the guards is they have the power to make life that little bit more awkward for those who annoy them...

vinylrules

Just a point of clarification. There is no law that says you cannot drink and then drive. The law actually permits drink-driving up to certain limits. Currently the limits are 80mgs - which is due to drop to 50mgs sometime late next year. This allows most people to have a drink or two - say a glass of wine with a meal, or a pint and then to drive perfectly legally. It seems a lot of people don't realise this.

Whether you think it's safe or not is an entirely different matter. But the Gardai are there to enforce the laws - thus they can only "catch" those with excess alcohol - i.e. those over the limits.

gurramok

charlie1966 wrote: »

I'm surprised they didn't pull you over for recording them doing their job.

Is there a law broken here?

charlie1966 wrote: »

Hope it was the passenger with the camera/phone.

It wasn't.

charlie1966 wrote: »

Random road check points have resulted on the capture of major criminals in the past and I think they should be carried out more often and without warning(Not like these useless holiday weekend blitz the Garda warn us about and then don't carry out).
It is very easy to stay on the right side of the law, so if you don't then why shouldn't you be stopped. If you an not breaking any laws then what is the problem of a few seconds inconvenience if it catches someone who shouldn't be on the road.

They have a tendency to pull people over who do not have a standard car. Many a time i've been pulled in for tinted windows and yet other drivers allowed to continue. I was fully expecting to be pulled in in that video but their pull over lane was full so a rake of drivers were waved on.

If it was just a few seconds inconvenience, they could of spoken to me to make sure I was not drink driving or a 'major criminal'.

dr.fuzzenstein

djimi wrote: »

The amount of people who dont understand this concept is amazing. If you have nothing to hide then be polite and friendly and they will respond in kind. Act like a dick and get their back up and of course they are going to come down heavy. Theyre only guys and girls doing their job at the end of the day; ffs if someone p1sses me off on the phone in work itll get my back up, I dont see why the guards should be any different. Difference between me and the guards is they have the power to make life that little bit more awkward for those who annoy them...

Just follow these handy hints:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCCjFbFXn8

_Kaiser_

shogunpower wrote: »

all the gaurd has to say is you were acting in a suspicious manor. he can then pull you over if he wants when he wants.

This is in fact one of the big problems I have with AGS - no actual evidence is required to prosecute someone. All a Guard has to do is stand up and say "I saw him do it" and that's enough to proceed.

That'd be fine if we could trust all AGS members to be honorable and upstanding, but unfortunately that's not the case as countless threads, news reports and investigations have shown over the years.

Yes there are a lot of good Guards, but given that the attitude to enforcement is still very much dependent on "who you get", they should be required to have actual evidence or probable cause before stopping someone (in the same way as for example, those Police Stop shows on Sky show them recording everything - presumably for later use as evidence - before they stop someone).

kasper wrote: »

just remember if you are not breaking the law the gardai are on your side

Again, it'd be nice if this were true but unfortunately the laws of this country are such that they protect the scumbags (who are ironically far more aware of the law and penalties - such as they are - than most people).

Take for example the (thankfully soon to be changed) situation where YOU can be charged/sued for defending yourself and your family from some scumbag who breaks into your home.

I've also posted on Boards in the past about a situation where my mother has been harassed for almost 20 years by local scumbags and despite windows being broken, doors being kicked in, property being stolen, and countless hours of CCTV footage (it was even on RTE's Prime Time back in 2005), only ONE person has ever been charged with anything - and that was only because they attacked the Gardai when they eventually turned up.

So no, I'm afraid it's not always the case that the Gardai are on your side as the widely varying quality of response and behaviour you'll get overshadows the work done by those officers who DO take their job and responsibilities seriously.

Mr Jinx

gurramok wrote: »

If it was just a few seconds inconvenience, they could of spoken to me to make sure I was not drink driving or a 'major criminal'.

To be honest its a no win situation for the guards, there are always countless threads from people giving out about guards always stopping and searching them or pulling them for driving boy racer cars, now someone complaining that he wasnt stopped at a checkpoint....................

deeks

Lads,

Anyone else noticed an increase in checkpoints in Waterford lately. Was going through town last Tuesday evening and there was one out by the dog track in Kilcohan and another on Philip Street by Caulfields pub. This was at about 8.15 in the evening.

Just wondering if anyone else noticed any last week and whether this is some kind of ongoing increased presence.