Map of Railway Closures

delta_bravo

Can anyone point me in the direction of a map similar to this but which shows the years that stations were closed? I remember seeing one online.

What stirred my interest in this was on a recent trip to Cahirciveen I couldnt help but notice the great infrastructure in terms of bridges that was built years ago to bring railway to this relatively small town which is still slow to get to by car. I didnt get a close look but I presume the tracks are probably all gone on this line which is a shame.

foggy_lad

Taking the train there now would not be any faster than driving, years ago the train was faster because roads were rubbish and cars were nowhere near as good as they are today.

lord lucan

delta_bravo wrote: »

What stirred my interest in this was on a recent trip to Cahirciveen I couldnt help but notice the great infrastructure in terms of bridges that was built years ago to bring railway to this relatively small town which is still slow to get to by car. I didnt get a close look but I presume the tracks are probably all gone on this line which is a shame.

That was the line that ran from Farranfore to Valentia Harbour. It was closed in 1961. It ran through some gorgeous scenery and would have been an amazing railway journey. I followed some of it on a spin down to Waterville a few years back. There's an amazing looking viaduct at Gleesk,looks eerie now sitting silently amongst the hills. The line seemed to have a lot of bridges and tunnels.

Eiretrains

There's this animated gif map which appears on wikki shows the lines closed in various stages from 1925 onwards, which might help.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/6/6d/20060316095932!Ireland's_Rail_Network_1925-75.gif


Don't know anymore detailed ones than that, though there have been a few atlas books produced in the past, like 'JOHNSON'S ATLAS AND GAZETTEER OF THE RAILWAYS OF IRELAND'.

Indeed the Farranfore-Valentia line was one of the most scenic line in the country, featuring both tunnels and long and tall viaducts, as leady mentioned at Gleesk, Killorglin and of course Caherciveen.

I know its not a map, but here's a good list of opening and closure dates of nearly every station in the country
http://www.railbrit.co.uk/Ireland/Irish_railways.pdf

Hope this helps

loyatemu

eiretrains.com is a good source of info and pictures of old stations:
here's Caherciveen

EDIT: sorry @Eiretrains, just noticed you've already plugged your site above.

El Siglo

It's actually depressing looking at those pictures. Imagine being able to get a train to almost any place in the country. Some of those maps remind me of tube lines, given the level of coverage.

Cool Mo D

El Siglo wrote: »

It's actually depressing looking at those pictures. Imagine being able to get a train to almost any place in the country. Some of those maps remind me of tube lines, given the level of coverage.

It's pretty misleading looking at it that way. Many of the closed railway lines were of extremely cheap construction. Sure, everywhere might have had a line, but the train probably only stopped twice a day, and took 2 hours to go 50 miles, it's not going to be an attractive option once there are alternatives.

corktina

Many of those lines should not have been built in the first place and many were government or co council sponsored, built way to lavishly and didnt stand an earthly when the motor vehicles came along. A process still on going, once you improve the road, the rail diminishes a little more.

foggy_lad

corktina wrote: »

Many of those lines should not have been built in the first place and many were government or co council sponsored, built way to lavishly and didnt stand an earthly when the motor vehicles came along. A process still on going, once you improve the road, the rail diminishes a little more.

many of the older lines were built by earls lords etc for their own transport to and from the main line and were really only light railways much like the bord na mona railways today

Partizan

corktina wrote: »

Many of those lines should not have been built in the first place and many were government or co council sponsored, built way to lavishly and didnt stand an earthly when the motor vehicles came along. A process still on going, once you improve the road, the rail diminishes a little more.

Alot of joke lines were built but at the time the road network was non existent so as bad as the rural rail lines were, they were perhaps the only reliable form of transport. Many of them deserved to be shut. However others like the Harcourt Street, Waterford-Tramore, Navan, Midleton-Youghal, Waterford-Mallow and parts of West Cork line should never have been closed.

corktina

why? you like paying more taxes to pay subsidies do you?

dermo88

I don't think some those lines,if they existed today would add that much to Iarnrod Eireanns subsidy bill. I'll have to go way way back in history for a quick off the cuff analysis.

Now....engaging in mild fantasy, and an alternate scenario for the routes that Partizan mentioned. As far back as 1938, Great Southern Railways stated that they needed to close 40% of its network due to the need for modernisation and repairs, and the list is vast. Had they been allowed cut more routes earlier, that money could have been saved and invested where it could generate a profitable cashflow up until the late 1940's.

Corktina and Partizan are correct on two different ends of the spectrum. Somewhere in between lies the reality.

The system was "overbuilt" and overextended. But in the context of a country linked by Horse and Cart, that was appropriate. The moment WW1 ended and army surplus trucks came to market, matters began to change. The railways demanded protectionist measures, and did not improve their services. They were not relevant to the needs of the market, and were by the standards of the day, very expensive.

The Mc Kinsey report of 1971 and 1981 showed that the subsidies were greatest on the busiest routes.

1. Waterford to Tramore closed because it was not linked directly to the network, but it could have survived. Just needs 2 x 2 car sets to run that in isolation, and it is effective enough. Net losses around 1 Million Euro these days.

2. Waterford to Mallow is touch and go. Its service had been cut gradually from 3 locals each way daily, with 2 expresses to 1 local, and a seasonal express service. It has all the hallmarks of the classic CIE run down to closure strategy. But nature kills it. Level crossings, steep gradients, tight curves and a 25mph point to point timing ensure that the roads win. Even in the 1970's, Waterford to Dungarvan could easily be covered in 45 minutes by road. The train barely does the run in one hour. Closed 1976 to passenger traffic. Maybe the line could survive as far as Dungarvan, but I doubt it.

3. Cork to Youghal is a borderline case. Beyond Midleton, the bus is faster, and the population levels do not sustain it.

4. West Cork - sentimental value only, but we assume it stays and escapes the 1963 closure. By 1976, closure is unavoidable. It can't be upgraded, there is a recession on, the equipment is obsolete, car ownership levels and prosperity are there to a greater degree, roads are much better, and trucks are much better.

(b) Its the Northwest, where some of the decline could have been avoided, but the collapse and cuts made to the Northwest are an interesting case. Did Northern Ireland make the right "call" in 1957, and realise that they would never compete in the long term, or did they cut too soon?

To me, only two routes there could have survived and thrived to the present day.

1. Portadown to Derry via Omagh and Strabane. It was badly built, but population densities ensure its worth upgrading at some point after 1970 (Joint venture, net costs around 2 Million Euro per annum, bi hourly service)

2. Portadown to Monaghan, possibly Enniskillen. (Joint venture, net costs around 3 Million Euro per annum, bihourly service)

(c) North of the border

1. Parts of the former County Down system. Not much, because none were direct enough to compete with buses. Only the old line as far as Comber, possibly Donaghadee. (Northern Ireland pays that)

Beyond that, the rest closes.

Assuming the above survive, the difference between additional traffic, freight flows, passenger flows, operational costs, and other additional factors, the subsidy bill would be around 6 Million extra for the small extras that could have been kept. These are back of fag packet figures though....its a post I have from 2004 from the old IRN site. I'l edit and produce a map later.

westtip

Open your mind OP look at the map of dissused nineteenth century lines, remember that in the early 19th century the railway replaced the canal, look at what has happened to all these old rail lines in Germany, UK and other european countries they have got on with making good use of them. These old rail lines do present the opportunity for a fabulous transport revolution in this country one word. Greenways. One website. www.sustrans.co.uk

forget about these crazy thoughts of opening rail lines from knowwhere to knowwhere that will carry about half a dozen passengers a day on the three trains a day we could afford to have - think about the tourist potential and health benefits of greenways and a whole network of them across the country. There is a thread on this subject in infrastructure

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055977258

There was some interesing news announced recently on this subject. Forget the old railwas closed down make use of the alignments for something more relevnat to todays society.

Hungerford

dermo88 wrote: »

(b) Its the Northwest, where some of the decline could have been avoided, but the collapse and cuts made to the Northwest are an interesting case. Did Northern Ireland make the right "call" in 1957, and realise that they would never compete in the long term, or did they cut too soon?

A lot of the North-South closures were quasi-political in nature while many of the Northern internal ones were fuelled by a transport administration that was essentially ideologically opposed to rail.

In terms of what should have survived:
- Derry to Belfast via Omagh
- Belfast to Downpatrick
- Portadown to Clones [possibly even to Inny Junction on socio-economic grounds]

In the south, what should have survived but didn't:
- Waterford to Tramore
- Waterford to New Ross
- Harcourt Street to Bray
- Navan to Clonsilla
- Mullingar to Athlone [via Moate]
- Cork to Bandon
- Tralee to Limerick

Partizan

dermo88 wrote: »

1. Waterford to Tramore closed because it was not linked directly to the network, but it could have survived. Just needs 2 x 2 car sets to run that in isolation, and it is effective enough. Net losses around 1 Million Euro these days.

The Waterford to Tramore line was actually making a profit by the time it closed in 1961. It incurred losses in the 1930s & 40s but these were small. if the line was open today it would be a very busy route given the market for commuters, students and tourists. A halt would have been placed at Kilbarry to cater for the nearby housing estates at Cherrymount, Avondale and Ursuline Court as well as the locality. Yes I know it was not part of the network but a single track could have been built from Plunkett Station to Manor Station to provide a link up to the national network. Many down in Waterford speak fondly of the line and talking to guys who worked on it, they feel very bitter towards Todd Andrews and rightly so.

dermo88 wrote: »

2. Waterford to Mallow is touch and go. Its service had been cut gradually from 3 locals each way daily, with 2 expresses to 1 local, and a seasonal express service. It has all the hallmarks of the classic CIE run down to closure strategy. But nature kills it. Level crossings, steep gradients, tight curves and a 25mph point to point timing ensure that the roads win. Even in the 1970's, Waterford to Dungarvan could easily be covered in 45 minutes by road. The train barely does the run in one hour. Closed 1976 to passenger traffic. Maybe the line could survive as far as Dungarvan, but I doubt it.

The same tactics that were used by CIE in closing this line are being repeated by IE to shut the Waterford Rosslare line. Run it into the ground with times people cant use and then say hey no one is using it so we are closing it. West Waterford was left without a railway and it years for many areas to recover. It could and should have been upgraded. There is talk in Waterford city of a private operator to run the line from Kilmeaden to the Quays as a commuter/tourist line.

dermo88 wrote: »

3. Cork to Youghal is a borderline case. Beyond Midleton, the bus is faster, and the population levels do not sustain it.

Again another viable line that was shut using the same old tactics. An increased Cork-Youghal frequent service in the summer would do Youghal the world of good as it has been a town badly hit with recent job closures.

dermo88 wrote: »

4. West Cork - sentimental value only, but we assume it stays and escapes the 1963 closure. By 1976, closure is unavoidable. It can't be upgraded, there is a recession on, the equipment is obsolete, car ownership levels and prosperity are there to a greater degree, roads are much better, and trucks are much better.

The West Cork line was shut at a time when the road service was bad. Shutting off the likes of Bantry, Bandon, Kinsale and West Cork city suburbs from the rail network was utter madness. These towns never fully recovered from the loss and it was decades before they got a decent road network. The line would have opened West Cork to much needed tourism and other economic benefits. Shutting down this vital piece of infrastructure was lunacy. Anyway what did you expect from an unemployed turf cutter.

dermo88 wrote: »

(b) Its the Northwest, where some of the decline could have been avoided, but the collapse and cuts made to the Northwest are an interesting case. Did Northern Ireland make the right "call" in 1957, and realise that they would never compete in the long term, or did they cut too soon?

To me, only two routes there could have survived and thrived to the present day.

1. Portadown to Derry via Omagh and Strabane. It was badly built, but population densities ensure its worth upgrading at some point after 1970 (Joint venture, net costs around 2 Million Euro per annum, bi hourly service)

2. Portadown to Monaghan, possibly Enniskillen. (Joint venture, net costs around 3 Million Euro per annum, bihourly service)

(c) North of the border

1. Parts of the former County Down system. Not much, because none were direct enough to compete with buses. Only the old line as far as Comber, possibly Donaghadee. (Northern Ireland pays that)

Beyond that, the rest closes.

Assuming the above survive, the difference between additional traffic, freight flows, passenger flows, operational costs, and other additional factors, the subsidy bill would be around 6 Million extra for the small extras that could have been kept. These are back of fag packet figures though....its a post I have from 2004 from the old IRN site. I'l edit and produce a map later

In the NW, Donegal railway was a jokeshop and deserved to be axed. Comber should be reinstated. The line from Portadown to Derry via Omagh and Strabane should have been saved and reinvested. Cavan & Monaghan cut as should Portadown - Enniskillen - Monaghan, joke lines. The population there is not sustainable for railway and a good road network is now more than satisfactory.

Harcourt Street? You never sent me your opinion on this one.

Athlone - Mullingar should be reopened.

Broadstone reconnected to the heavy rail network and be used for Dublin - Galway and Dublin - Navan services with Luas link up from there to Red Line.

Dublin - Navan shoud be built without delay as should the Interconnector and Metro and Luas link up.

In short what should be there now -

Munster: West Cork (main line to Bantry but axe all branch lines with exception to Kinsale), Waterford-Mallow, Waterford-Tramore + existing lines.

Leinster: Athlone - Mullingar, Dublin to Navan + existing lines.

Dublin: Luas extension to Bray following Harcourt St. line, connection of both Luas lines, Interconnecter, Metro and reopening of Broadstone + existing lines

NI: Belfast to Comber, Portadown to Derry via Omagh & Strabane + existing lines.

Judgement Day

In the NW, Donegal railway was a jokeshop and deserved to be axed.

I agree with your entire post save for this outrageous comment on the Co.Donegal which you clearly know little about. It was a model of how a railway can and should be operated. Amongst other things they pioneered the development and use of diesel railcars. Life is too short to go into all the good points about the CDR but I recommend that you read the following before being so derisory about that entity.

The County Donegal Railways. EM Patterson. David & Charles Newton Abbott ISBN 0-7153-8167-9 (1st Edn 1962; 2nd Edn 1969; 3rd Edn 1982). The definitive history containing lots of background information, trackplans, gradient profiles, timetables etc.

Stonewolf

Judgement Day wrote: »

In the NW, Donegal railway was a jokeshop and deserved to be axed.

I agree with your entire post save for this outrageous comment on the Co.Donegal which you clearly know little about. It was a model of how a railway can and should be operated. Amongst other things they pioneered the development and use of diesel railcars. Life is too short to go into all the good points about the CDR but I recommend that you read the following before being so derisory about that entity.

The County Donegal Railways. EM Patterson. David & Charles Newton Abbott ISBN 0-7153-8167-9 (1st Edn 1962; 2nd Edn 1969; 3rd Edn 1982). The definitive history containing lots of background information, trackplans, gradient profiles, timetables etc.

Absolutely, the CDR was a massive benefit to the area it operated in and was extremely well run. In the end it was killed by a number of external factors (isolation and the border) and the fact that it needed money for maintainance and replacement of assets that couldn't be sourced in the late fifties. Ridiculing it just because it was narrow gauge is foolish.

All this being said, it's hard to imagine the CDR still being around today, investment in Donegals road network means that most of the routes it used to ply now have decent roads for the majority of thier length and even though the border isn't a problem today the system would be completely isolated from the mainline network. Although built to a very high standard for light railways of the day it's doubtful it would be competitive with modern road traffic and would suffer from issues of scale, though a regauging might have been practical and served to extend its utility. Ultimately though the CDRs isolation would have brought it down eventually.

KenGriffin

delta_bravo wrote: »

Can anyone point me in the direction of a map similar to this but which shows the years that stations were closed? I remember seeing one online.

There's a huge one on the wall in the humanities section of the library at UCD. The problem is that you need to be a UCD student or a postgrad to see it. Unfortunately, I can't remember who produced it but it's A1 and in full colour.

ardmacha

Wikipedia
has a map of the maximum extent of the system

I have a particular interest in the North Kerry line from Limerick to Tralee as I used to live very close to it. Some people have told me it was built to a light railway order but the 1906 map claims otherwise.

Tragedy

Limerick to Tralee should have survived, NorthWest Kerry is terribly served by public transport, and almost everyone works somewhere on the old Railway Line(Tralee, Abbeyfeale and Limeric) or studies in one of the two.

Partizan

Tragedy wrote: »

Limerick to Tralee should have survived, NorthWest Kerry is terribly served by public transport, and almost everyone works somewhere on the old Railway Line(Tralee, Abbeyfeale and Limeric) or studies in one of the two.

The North Kerry line was badly built with slow speeds, steep gradients and a shed load of level crossings. It was like the WRC built for freight and a total rebuild would have cost alot which the State didnt/doesnt have. Once the car came and the roads improved, its fate was sealed. Better off now consolidate with what we have and add to the network piece by piece (Interconnector, Metro, Luas to Bray, and Navan).

Partizan

Judgement Day wrote: »

In the NW, Donegal railway was a jokeshop and deserved to be axed.

I agree with your entire post save for this outrageous comment on the Co.Donegal which you clearly know little about. It was a model of how a railway can and should be operated. Amongst other things they pioneered the development and use of diesel railcars. Life is too short to go into all the good points about the CDR but I recommend that you read the following before being so derisory about that entity.

The County Donegal Railways. EM Patterson. David & Charles Newton Abbott ISBN 0-7153-8167-9 (1st Edn 1962; 2nd Edn 1969; 3rd Edn 1982). The definitive history containing lots of background information, trackplans, gradient profiles, timetables etc.

Just take a look at the map of the Donegal railway. That should tell you something. The network was all over the shop.

Stonewolf

Partizan wrote: »

Just take a look at the map of the Donegal railway. That should tell you something. The network was all over the shop.

Actually it wasn't, the CDR was a pre-partition railway and it's only looking at it from a partition point of view that makes it seem strange. There was an existing railway link at Strabane and the CDR started as a branch off that to Stranorlar/Ballybofey, from there it extended to Donegal. Then North to Derry having found the arrangement with the GNR(I) non-ideal. Derry, it should be pointed out was the big local city at the time since it wasn't yet in a foreign country. A line was built to Killybegs (where I'm from) in the 1890s to develop the port there and provide an improved method of exporting the fish produce. Branches were also built to serve Ballyshannon and Glenties (Glenties was built with significant government input in an attempt to develop that area and was one of the first lines to go). Finally a line was built to Letterkenny to tap into the growing market presented there.

So you see, all the lines make sense, if you still don't see how then dig out a topological map of Donegal and look at where the mountain passes are.

This doesn't of course cover all the lines, there's also the L&LSR which was a complete basket case built and subsidised heavily by government funds. It was constructed to a very poor standard with stop miles from the villiages they served (in the time of pony/donkey transport because who could afford the extravagance of a horse), and winding track with low maximum axle loads built very far out into the middle of nowhere. They were given (given!) the largest and most powerful narrow gauge locomotives in Britain and Ireland and still couldn't make it all work. They closed up early and switched to busses. (Where have I heard all this before?)

The history of railways in Donegal makes for some interesting reading and contains lessons relevant to modern Irelands network.

Partizan

Stonewolf wrote: »

Actually it wasn't, the CDR was a pre-partition railway and it's only looking at it from a partition point of view that makes it seem strange. There was an existing railway link at Strabane and the CDR started as a branch off that to Stranorlar/Ballybofey, from there it extended to Donegal. Then North to Derry having found the arrangement with the GNR(I) non-ideal. Derry, it should be pointed out was the big local city at the time since it wasn't yet in a foreign country. A line was built to Killybegs (where I'm from) in the 1890s to develop the port there and provide an improved method of exporting the fish produce. Branches were also built to serve Ballyshannon and Glenties (Glenties was built with significant government input in an attempt to develop that area and was one of the first lines to go). Finally a line was built to Letterkenny to tap into the growing market presented there.

So you see, all the lines make sense, if you still don't see how then dig out a topological map of Donegal and look at where the mountain passes are.

This doesn't of course cover all the lines, there's also the L&LSR which was a complete basket case built and subsidised heavily by government funds. It was constructed to a very poor standard with stop miles from the villiages they served (in the time of pony/donkey transport because who could afford the extravagance of a horse), and winding track with low maximum axle loads built very far out into the middle of nowhere. They were given (given!) the largest and most powerful narrow gauge locomotives in Britain and Ireland and still couldn't make it all work. They closed up early and switched to busses. (Where have I heard all this before?)

The history of railways in Donegal makes for some interesting reading and contains lessons relevant to modern Irelands network.

If the railway does come back to Donegal (which is highly unlikely) it should link up with the Sligo line all the way through to Derry with stations at Bundoran, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ballybofey/Stranolar, Letterkenny and Derry Waterside.

Obviously not going to happen due to cost.

Stonewolf

Partizan wrote: »

If the railway does come back to Donegal (which is highly unlikely) it should link up with the Sligo line all the way through to Derry with stations at Bundoran, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ballybofey/Stranolar, Letterkenny and Derry Waterside.

Obviously not going to happen due to cost.

I agree but I fail to see how this relates to your ridicule of what was at the time of its construction a perfectly reasonable and sensible railway.

Judgement Day

Stonewolf wrote: »

I agree but I fail to see how this relates to your ridicule of what was at the time of its construction a perfectly reasonable and sensible railway.

No answer so move the goalposts. :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

Partizan wrote: »

If the railway does come back to Donegal (which is highly unlikely) it should link up with the Sligo line all the way through to Derry with stations at Bundoran, Ballyshannon, Donegal, Ballybofey/Stranolar, Letterkenny and Derry Waterside.

Obviously not going to happen due to cost.

it would help also if the population in the area was a lot higher.

foggy_lad

Partizan wrote: »

Just take a look at the map of the Donegal railway. That should tell you something. The network was all over the shop.

burtonport to bundoran would have taken a few days!!

Hungerford

Karsini wrote: »

I have a particular interest in the North Kerry line from Limerick to Tralee as I used to live very close to it. Some people have told me it was built to a light railway order but the 1906 map claims otherwise.

That's definately not the case - the first sections opened decades before the light railway act was even passed.

me_right_one

Balls to closing lines, balls to it. Look what the country has lost. We had better infrastructure 150 years ago, after the biggest recession we ever experienced (the famine) than we do now:(

mgmt

^^
In fairness most if not all of those lines should have been closed once the car arrived in Ireland.

me_right_one

No way, they should have been improved.

Anyway, I would say in another 150 years, there will only be 4 lines left in Ireland. Dublin-Cork, Dublin-Galway, Dublin-Sligo, and Dublin-Belfast. Instead there will be dual-carraigeways running across the country within 5 miles parallel to each other.

mgmt

me_right_one wrote: »

No way, they should have been improved.

Anyway, I would say in another 150 years, there will only be 4 lines left in Ireland. Dublin-Cork, Dublin-Galway, Dublin-Sligo, and Dublin-Belfast. Instead there will be dual-carraigeways running across the country within 5 miles parallel to each other.

I'd love to know the subvention bill if those lines were in operation today :rolleyes:

me_right_one

mgmt wrote: »

I'd love to know the subvention bill if those lines were in operation today :rolleyes:

What do you mean?

Cookie_Monster

me_right_one wrote: »

What do you mean?

how much we'd have to pay IE to run trains on them and maintain them as the passenger number would never ever justify them.

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how much we'd have to pay IE to run trains on them and maintain them as the passenger number would never ever justify them.

just imagine the staff bill for irish rail, bigger thean the national debt!

dowlingm

150 years ago, the railways were private (or at a generous interpretation PPPs).

Run_to_da_hills

lord lucan wrote: »

That was the line that ran from Farranfore to Valentia Harbour. It was closed in 1961. It ran through some gorgeous scenery and would have been an amazing railway journey. I followed some of it on a spin down to Waterville a few years back. There's an amazing looking viaduct at Gleesk,looks eerie now sitting silently amongst the hills. The line seemed to have a lot of bridges and tunnels.

It was also one of the only 5ft3 lines that ended out in the middle of nowhere. most similar lines were narrow gauge.

It would have been an ideal tourist route today and could have used standard rolling stock It would have made a lot more sense to have had this line restored rather than the WRC which is a complete white elephant with the adjacent interconnectors. I passed by this line only last weekend and was amazed at the amount of tunnels and viaducts that are still intact.

steamengine

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It was also one of the only 5ft3 lines that ended out in the middle of nowhere. most similar lines were narrow gauge.

It would have been an ideal tourist route today and could have used standard rolling stock It would have made a lot more sense to have had this line restored rather than the WRC which is a complete white elephant with the adjacent interconnectors. I passed by this line only last weekend and was amazed at the amount of tunnels and viaducts that are still intact.

+1........if any old alignment begs to be re-incarnated as a tourist line, then surely this one is a front runner. Especially the section between Glenbeigh and Kells with the cliff tunnels, Gleesk viaduct and stunning views over Dingle Bay.

foggy_lad

steamengine wrote: »

+1........if any old alignment begs to be re-incarnated as a tourist line, then surely this one is a front runner. Especially the section between Glenbeigh and Kells with the cliff tunnels, Gleesk viaduct and stunning views over Dingle Bay.

waterford-rosslare would make a great tourist railway especially if it stopped along the route to take in sights such as the barrow bridge etc

Run_to_da_hills

foggy_lad wrote: »

waterford-rosslare would make a great tourist railway especially if it stopped along the route to take in sights such as the barrow bridge etc

The Government for that matter who is ultimately responsible for the line closure couldn't give two sh*ts about tourism. If they did care they wouldn't have imposed the e10 airport tourist tax.

stevielenihan

mgmt wrote: »

I'd love to know the subvention bill if those lines were in operation today :rolleyes:

Will the Mallow to Tralee railway line close down?

teol

stevielenihan wrote: »

Will the Mallow to Tralee railway line close down?

Here is a quote from An Bord Snip

"The Group is concerned by the overall upward trend in the level of public service payments per passenger journey although it notes that Irish Rail has achieved a small reduction (Irish Rail still has the highest PSO payment per passenger journey of the three CIÉ transport companies). This indicates poor service delivery. Accordingly, the Group recommends a scheme of targeted
reductions to services across all three CIÉ companies, focused in the first instance on off-peak, low patronage services.

As part of this undertaking, the Department of Transport and CIÉ should jointly review the application of PSO payments to low patronage transport routes and explore how such payments can be best targeted/applied to provide the most economical service levels that meet customer needs and
demand patterns. For example, lightly used rail lines should be closed and replacement bus services provided. It is more than likely that more regular and reliable bus services could be provided on such corridors at less cost to the Exchequer. Among the most lightly used rail lines that should be
examined in this light include:

- Limerick Junction to Rosslare
- Limerick to Ballybrophy;
- Manulla Junction to Ballina.

In addition, the Group recommends that there should be no further development of the Western Rail Corridor.

Overall, the Group targets a significant reduction of costs at CIÉ which would lead to savings of €55m in the PSO payment."

Judgement Day

stevielenihan wrote: »

Will the Mallow to Tralee railway line close down?

Are you doing a school project?

corktina

teol wrote: »

Here is a quote from An Bord Snip

can you please put a date on that. Is this a current statement or history?

My personal opinion is that Mallow to Killarney is relatively safe. Killarney to Tralee on the other hand, maybe not. I've travelled on this line for 15 years and the Killarney to Tralee stretch was always quiet.

teol

corktina wrote: »

can you please put a date on that. Is this a current statement or history?

http://www.djei.ie/publications/corporate/2009/volume2.pdf


The South-Eastern Regional Authority tried to skew Bord Snips reccomendation in trying to save the Waterford Roselare service:

In section 7 above, the NTA’s analysis shows that there is no large demand that would transfer to rail even if services were increased. The SERA’s consultants compound their optimism by assuming that 3 services a day equates to a trebling of patronage and that adding Wexford as a destination along, with an unspecified number of additional services, doubles this again. From there, passenger numbers 15 continue to grow up to an unspecified future date, when 800-1,200 daily passengers could be expected. Estimating this level of patronage is without foundation. Chapter 5 is perhaps the most crucial, as it attempts to rebut Irish Rail’s Business Case for suspension of passenger services. Section 5.1, Background, notes the
Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers and Expenditure
Programmes (An Bord Snip Nua).

“As part of this undertaking, the Department of Transport and CIÉ should
jointly review the application of PSO payments to low patronage transport
routes and explore how such payments can be best targeted/applied to
provide the most economical service levels that meet customer needs and
demand patterns.”

The excerpt stops short at this point and does not include the following lines:

“For example, lightly used rail lines should be closed and replacement bus services provided. It is more than likely that more regular and reliable bus
services could be provided on such corridors at less cost to the Exchequer
6.”

Much of the content puts forward rationale for public transport provision whilst neglecting the fact that a replacement bus service is being proposed.
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/downloads/NTA_position_on_proposal.pdf

Just brought this up given the Western Regional Authority's vote last week on the WRC greenway.

mikemac

Irish Rail did their best to run Limerick-Ballybrophy into the ground

I'm convinced the staff ran the timetable to sort out a nine to five roster for themselves, you can get to Limerick for lunch and shopping but useless if you are a student or there to work.

With a lot of lobbying and volunteers doing surveys and of course politicians jumping in at the end to take credit, a better timetable came in. Now you can actually get a commuter train to Limerick before nine.

Not sure what lines around the country will survive and there have been a few land grabs around the place, the lines now part of peoples gardens or people building house extensions on them
But I love this greenways idea, locals would use them and tourists too. Cost very little to maintain once they are setup and some of the railways went through incredibly scenic areas

teol

mikemac wrote: »

Irish Rail did their best to run Limerick-Ballybrophy into the ground

Here is the timetable. http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey/printed_timetable_pdfs/2011/Dublin%20Limerick%20via%20Nenagh%2011.pdf

It takes a painful 2 hours to get from Ballybrophy to Limerick. A journey of about 85km. The line runs beside the M7 motorway. Bus Eireann do an hourly service and it takes 1hr 25min and serves more communities.

mikemac

Few enough would make that long journey. Busiest sector on the line is Nenagh - Limerick