farmers suicide rate

tommylimerick

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suicides-rise-by-almost-25pc-among-farmers-2302983.html
i don t really know if this is still a taboo subject in the farming community or not . i hope not.
it says farmers are three times more likely to take their own lives than accountants engineers or solicitors .. why is this?

leg wax

a lot of them only have the cows to talk too and are up to their tits in debt and would rather take their life than sell the farm, isolation has a lot to do with it.

5live

Milking 90 cows last year for 60 euro a week after bank and suppliers paid and postponed loan payments. To my mind the fact that the suicide rate is so low is a wonder

pakalasa

You can thank that bloody Nitrates Directives for a lot of that.
Farmers were forced to borrow huge amounts of money. There's a lot of hidden debt in this country and it's not just recent house buyers.

leg wax

sorry dont want to lc this thread but no one was forced to put up big fancey sheds and tanks.

bbam

leg wax wrote: »

sorry dont want to lc this thread

a new phrase has been coined.. "to lc a thread"

dar31

bbam wrote: »

a new phrase has been coined.. "to lc a thread"

took a second, nice one:D

back to topic

Clare Bear

Loneliness. Buying beyond their means (that can be said for a lot of people in different professions though obviously). Being a farmer can be a very lonely life. Especially if you're a single man/woman living on your own.

I hope Macra Na Feirme pick up on this and try and bring more awareness about the subject. They do all the Know Your Neighbour fundraisers amongst others so it might be something they could help with for younger farmers.

whelan1

some farmers sold land as development land and put some of the money in bank shares so they could have money for their retirement , they thought they where made up

irishh_bob

tommylimerick wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suicides-rise-by-almost-25pc-among-farmers-2302983.html
i don t really know if this is still a taboo subject in the farming community or not . i hope not.
it says farmers are three times more likely to take their own lives than accountants engineers or solicitors .. why is this?

isolated work enviroment has been mentioned but heres a few others i believe explain why farmers are more likely to end thier own lives

farmers tend to be more old fashioned and less likely to deal with depression in a modern way

farmers tend to be more manly , its not manly to visit a councellor

farmers tend to be physically brave , this combined with numerous means of fattally wounding oneself , guns , sheds with high beams

the_syco

leg wax wrote: »

sorry dont want to lc this thread but no one was forced to put up big fancey sheds and tanks.

So they should store their stuff... where? In a small shed that the someone could steal?

whelan1

well in our area it was build the slurry storage etc or go out of business

leg wax wrote: »

sorry dont want to lc this thread but no one was forced to put up big fancey sheds and tanks.

LostCovey

leg wax wrote: »

sorry dont want to lc this thread but no one was forced to put up big fancey sheds and tanks.

A cheap shot, and tasteless even by your usual standards, in the context of the topic under discussion.

LC

pakalasa

LC,
Might be time to change your username!

whelan1

5live wrote: »

Milking 90 cows last year for 60 euro a week after bank and suppliers paid and postponed loan payments. To my mind the fact that the suicide rate is so low is a wonder

also there are still alot of bills from last year to be paid , so even though milk price is up the money is gone - also the weather would depress any one, all be it better than last year

5live

leg wax wrote: »

sorry dont want to lc this thread but no one was forced to put up big fancey sheds and tanks.

No i wasnt 'forced to put up sheds' just that all my previous investment due to legal requirements would have been a waste of money. And then people wonder why farmers dont talk about their business. Can i reccomend NOT becoming a councellor

Dozer1

Looking around many of neighbours are living alone and have nobody to discuss issues with.
As most of us would have experienced, relationships with our parents on the farm can play a big part too, I find alot of the time you tend to keep to keep things from them to avoid worrying them and also probably out of embarrassment.

My parents raised 8 kids on a small farm milking 20-30 cows a poorly paid off farm job, now my dad looks at this generation who can't seem to make ends meet milking 60+ cows and have 2-3 kids. I find this genrerates alot of tension.

Having an off farm job helps because you meet people from different age groups and from different backrounds this helps as you get to vent your problems and also realise maybe the farm ones aren't so bad.

Full time farmers have little or no opportunity to meet people regularly, and if they do they are all farmers, they be better off if they were talking to a mix of people.
Isolation is a big threat aswell.

LostCovey

pakalasa wrote: »

LC,
Might be time to change your username!

Nah, if I did yee would have nobody to kick around.

LC

Birdnuts

whelan1 wrote: »

well in our area it was build the slurry storage etc or go out of business

Wasn't there a FYP scheme to cover some/most of the cost of this type of work

whelan1

yes but that was screwed up too! i for one would not have built what i did if 1. the county council wheren't down my back and
2. if there wasnt a grant
also was told that i would get extra on the grant for being under 35 , which i didnt get as i had started farming too long ago , was also told i would get a top up for being in the disadvantaged area which i also didnt get .Dont get me started on the payment method, this is the reason so many farmers are in crisis , what a joke

dar31

whelan1 wrote: »

yes but that was screwed up too! i for one would not have built what i did if 1. the county council wheren't down my back and
2. if there wasnt a grant
also was told that i would get extra on the grant for being under 35 , which i didnt get as i had started farming too long ago , was also told i would get a top up for being in the disadvantaged area which i also didnt get .Dont get me started on the payment method, this is the reason so many farmers are in crisis , what a joke

don't forget the inflated prices builders and contractors charged

whelan1

yup and then the op wonders why farmers are turning to suicide

JupiterKid

I would suspect isolation, lonliness and financial problems and with no-one to talk to would be a big factor in suicide amongst farmers.

I also wouldn't be surprised if, amongst the suicide figures, some "bachelor" farmers who were really gay couldn't deal with their sexuality and killed themselves.

It's well known that the rate of suicide amongst LGBT people is considerably higher than for straight people.

pakalasa

Irish Independent article on the subject;
http://www.independent.ie/farming/debt-leads-to-rise-in-suicides-2308851.html

tommylimerick

ya just read that palakasa thanks for link
ya i know that there s a lot of pressure on farmers now with
financial commitments and enviromental regulation ect.
but i think that this is really way above what i would have thought
before .. i mean three times the average is pretty shocking
maybe i was naive .. btw i am a farmer myself

Muckit

Like everything else, it's probably a combination of things.

firstly I'd say that lone working and social isolation is a major contributor to poor mental health. We all have heard the phrase, "a problem solved is a problem halved". It's good to get out and about and talk to people, but sadly this doesn't happen often enough for some isolated farmers. I think also the fact that the majority of farmers are men is a key reason figure is so high. It's a fact that the fairer sex is more likely to talk about problems, trivial and all as they may be. It's the accumulation of small probelms that are left untalked about that can mount up.

A long history of poor mental health is often a precursor to the eventual act of suicide. But that too is taboo in Ireland, especially so probably for farmers because it is seen as a weakness to suffer from it. It's nobodies fault that they become mentally unwell, especially not the person suffering from it. I hope some day people can talk out openly about being depressed or having being admitted to hospital for it, the same as, let's say, a person who broke their leg or their arm.

Username John

Muckit wrote: »

We all have heard the phrase, "a problem solved is a problem halved".

Hmmm...

But I agree with you, isolation and not talking has probably a lot to do with it...

irishh_bob

Muckit wrote: »

Like everything else, it's probably a combination of things.

firstly I'd say that lone working and social isolation is a major contributor to poor mental health. We all have heard the phrase, "a problem solved is a problem halved". It's good to get out and about and talk to people, but sadly this doesn't happen often enough for some isolated farmers. I think also the fact that the majority of farmers are men is a key reason figure is so high. It's a fact that the fairer sex is more likely to talk about problems, trivial and all as they may be. It's the accumulation of small probelms that are left untalked about that can mount up.

A long history of poor mental health is often a precursor to the eventual act of suicide. But that too is taboo in Ireland, especially so probably for farmers because it is seen as a weakness to suffer from it. It's nobodies fault that they become mentally unwell, especially not the person suffering from it. I hope some day people can talk out openly about being depressed or having being admitted to hospital for it, the same as, let's say, a person who broke their leg or their arm.

thiers a lot of sense in your post but i strongly disagree with you when you state that its no ones fault when someone gets depressed , depression doesnt appear out of thin air , some event or someone caused it , it may not manifest itself for years ( nervous breakdown , suicide ) and could even stem from an event in the farmers childhood , getting depressed isnt like getting struck by lightning , its not something completley random

Muckit

irishh_bob wrote: »

thiers a lot of sense in your post but i strongly disagree with you when you state that its no ones fault when someone gets depressed , depression doesnt appear out of thin air , some event or someone caused it , it may not manifest itself for years ( nervous breakdown , suicide ) and could even stem from an event in the farmers childhood , getting depressed isnt like getting struck by lightning , its not something completley random

Hi Irishbob

I never suggested that depression appears out of thin air. Depression happens largely because of a chemical imbalance in the brain and is also linked to a person's personality.

Take the hypotethical situation where two people experience the same horrific farm accident, say they get entsngled in an uncovered pto shaft due to some elses neglegance and they both receive an amputation. One person may become severely depressed because of it, the other may not. Why is this? They both have a different outcome to the same situation. So it is not correct to make the conclusion that someone or something causes a person to get despressed. There is an innate reason why a certain person will start to get depressed.

Depression is also anything but 'random' like you say. Oftentimes several members of the one family will have it as it is hereditory. That's not to day that just because a farmer or his wife suffers from depression, all their children will suffer from it, but their is a higher chance.

irishh_bob

Muckit wrote: »

Hi Irishbob

I never suggested that depression appears out of thin air. Depression happens largely because of a chemical imbalance in the brain and is also linked to a person's personality.

Take the hypotethical situation where two people experience the same horrific farm accident, say they get entsngled in an uncovered pto shaft due to some elses neglegance and they both receive an amputation. One person may become severely depressed because of it, the other may not. Why is this? They both have a different outcome to the same situation. So it is not correct to make the conclusion that someone or something causes a person to get despressed. There is an innate reason why a certain person will start to get depressed.

Depression is also anything but 'random' like you say. Oftentimes several members of the one family will have it as it is hereditory. That's not to day that just because a farmer or his wife suffers from depression, all their children will suffer from it, but their is a higher chance.

ive never bought the chemical imbalance in the brain theory , many eminent doctors dont subscribe to it either

Muckit

irishh_bob wrote: »

ive never bought the chemical imbalance in the brain theory , many eminent doctors dont subscribe to it either

Really? Then why do phycriatrists prescribe medication (which are chemicals) to correct the chemical imbalances that cause deprression?

mikemac

Muckit wrote: »

Take the hypotethical situation where two people experience the same horrific farm accident, say they get entsngled in an uncovered pto shaft due to some elses neglegance and they both receive an amputation. One person may become severely depressed because of it, the other may not. Why is this? They both have a different outcome to the same situation. So it is not correct to make the conclusion that someone or something causes a person to get despressed. There is an innate reason why a certain person will start to get depressed.

You're correct on that point.
Well to take a far less extreme example, one person gets rejected at a job interview and they get depressed and think they are a failure and another person gets rejected and they are excited as it's one step closer to their goal. All about perception.

Suicide is a massive issue for farmers and as said a lot of it is due to debt and loneliness.
Plus a feeling of being worthless in that their father and generations before made a living on the land but they've failed to do it, times have changed and only a fraction can support a family on a farmers income.
Well we always had this but it's realy very, very few making a good income soley from farming these days, most had off site job which give interaction and meeting people

Yeah, who am to second guess doctors giving drugs to correct chemical imbalances but I realy do think there are many cases where talking and counseling and a conversation can solve what drugs cannot.
Drugs are never the first solution

Yeah I know something about it, check the username

irishh_bob

Muckit wrote: »

Really? Then why do phycriatrists prescribe medication (which are chemicals) to correct the chemical imbalances that cause deprression?

just because doctors prescribe happy pills as a quick fix for patients doesnt mean it was a few crossed wires in your head which made a person down in the 1st place , suicidal etc , , its another chicken and egg scenario , sure , the mind may be acting differently but its acting differently due to some external cause just like a bleeding wound is acting due to a laceration or cut , anti depressants wont cure a person who is unhappy because they were mistreated as a child growing up or the victim of bullying in the workplace etc

pakalasa

Well, at least everbody agrees that there is more than one cause. Even the weather we got for the last few years must have driven farmers to near dispair. Ever notice how a simple thing like a fine sunny day can really lift one's spirit.
Just wonder how the farming organisations are going to tackle this, if they do at all?

bogman_bass

Clare Bear wrote: »

Loneliness. Buying beyond their means (that can be said for a lot of people in different professions though obviously). Being a farmer can be a very lonely life. Especially if you're a single man/woman living on your own.

I hope Macra Na Feirme pick up on this and try and bring more awareness about the subject. They do all the Know Your Neighbour fundraisers amongst others so it might be something they could help with for younger farmers.

I think Macra addresses it in so much that it gives a social outlet to young farmers

reilig

bogman_bass wrote: »

I think Macra addresses it in so much that it gives a social outlet to young farmers

There's no macra in our area. We have to travel 30 miles for the nearest club. From the macra clubs that i do know, a lot of the members are very outgoing - most have off farm jobs and are outgoing people who drive the club forward. (and fair play to them for that).

In my line of work, i meet a lot of young people with mental health problems. Most come from rural areas and wouldn't have the confidence to attend a Macra event.

Macra is great, if you have the confidence and motivation to attend attend its events. If not, you haven't much choice on anything else that you want to do.

reilig

The theory of depression being caused by a chemical imbalance (also electronic imbalance) has really gone out the window in recent years. Chemical/electronic imbalance is a medical and scientific definition for depression. For years, people were locked into institutions and treated with coctails of drugs and electro shock treatments until something happened - usually they became so unaware of their surroundings and their depression that they just went around in a 24/7 daze.

Fortunately, doctors are not the main treaters of depression these days. Psychiatrists, Community Psychiatric Nurses and Community mental health Workers are the main treaters for depression. While depression is still diagnosed by doctors, most referr to the above sources.

People still receive a "pepp" pill to lift their spirits, but the focus has changed from treating people with medicine to teaching people how to deal with depression.

To be perfectly honest with you, everyone suffers with highs and lows in their lives. People are diagnosed with depression if their low goes so low that they cannot deal with it themselves. In another post, you correctly identified that depression often runs in families. Its a true statement, but has little to do with genetics. It has more to do with the family's way of life and upbringing which prohibits them from being able to deal with the lows in their lives. But people can be given councilling and training to show them how to deal with depression and they can lead normal non-depressed lives afterwards.

You also speak about people who become depressed because of a single event or range of events in their lives such as an accident or some form of abuse. These people don't have an imbalance in their brain. They have something that they are unable to deal with - often the most effective treatment for this is councilling which enables the person to deal with what happened and subsequently deal with the depression that the event caused.

Modern mental health initiatives are few and far between in rural ireland (unfortunately), however, there are a few that assist in the treatment of mental health issues such as depression.

These initiatives include: mental health clinics and drop in centres in most towns, day centres for elderly, mens groups - especially in rural isolated areas where there may be many batchelor farmers, the men can meet on a regular basis, go on outings, play games, talk about issues, have health screening etc. etc.
Things that we don't even notice are often the best treatments. Take teagasc discussion groups that get farmers together on a regular basis, or the mart. People often say that money is foolishly spent by the govt on teagasc, but it does provide a good service which in tune saves the government money on mental health treatment. Marts too!!!

Other initiatives include employment services for people with depression (this is what i work at). We offer a supported employment service to people who are recovering and need an occupation. Having a job to go to is proven to be one of the best treatments for depression available.

Finally, in ireland, we are so far behind other countries with out treatment of mental health and unfortunately we still have a legacy of thousands of people who were instatutionalised in the last 50 years and who are now almost zombies after the treatment that the received. The new focus for mental health in ireland is how to prevent depression. We've spent many years treating it, wouldn't it be much better if people didn't have depression at all?? Certainly our suicide rate would be lowered.

In the US, they have already rolled out Positive Psychology which focuses on keeping people at risk of depression well. Its a long way off in this country, unfortunately, but there are a few pioneers of it here, trying to get it off the ground.

The most important thing that everyone should remember is that we all have high and low points in our life. It only takes a small trigger to leave us that we aren't able to deal with one of these lows. Therefore, any one of us can suffer from depression. Its not a crime or anything to be ashamed of either!!!!! 1 in 3 people will suffer from depression during their lifetime.

Muckit wrote: »

Hi Irishbob

I never suggested that depression appears out of thin air. Depression happens largely because of a chemical imbalance in the brain and is also linked to a person's personality.

Take the hypotethical situation where two people experience the same horrific farm accident, say they get entsngled in an uncovered pto shaft due to some elses neglegance and they both receive an amputation. One person may become severely depressed because of it, the other may not. Why is this? They both have a different outcome to the same situation. So it is not correct to make the conclusion that someone or something causes a person to get despressed. There is an innate reason why a certain person will start to get depressed.

Depression is also anything but 'random' like you say. Oftentimes several members of the one family will have it as it is hereditory. That's not to day that just because a farmer or his wife suffers from depression, all their children will suffer from it, but their is a higher chance.

pakalasa

Reilig,
Great post.
Half way down, I was going to ask you if you worked in that area, until you mentioned it.
I agree strongly about your point on the marts and discussion groups.

Upstream

pakalasa wrote: »

Reilig,
Great post.
Half way down, I was going to ask you if you worked in that area, until you mentioned it.
I agree strongly about your point on the marts and discussion groups.

Plus one, great post Reilig, thanks.

reilig

Thanks guys. Yea, that's my line of work. I see some bad cases, but it is one of the most rewarding jobs that anyone could do.

irishh_bob

reilig wrote: »

The theory of depression being caused by a chemical imbalance (also electronic imbalance) has really gone out the window in recent years. Chemical/electronic imbalance is a medical and scientific definition for depression. For years, people were locked into institutions and treated with coctails of drugs and electro shock treatments until something happened - usually they became so unaware of their surroundings and their depression that they just went around in a 24/7 daze.

Fortunately, doctors are not the main treaters of depression these days. Psychiatrists, Community Psychiatric Nurses and Community mental health Workers are the main treaters for depression. While depression is still diagnosed by doctors, most referr to the above sources.

People still receive a "pepp" pill to lift their spirits, but the focus has changed from treating people with medicine to teaching people how to deal with depression.

To be perfectly honest with you, everyone suffers with highs and lows in their lives. People are diagnosed with depression if their low goes so low that they cannot deal with it themselves. In another post, you correctly identified that depression often runs in families. Its a true statement, but has little to do with genetics. It has more to do with the family's way of life and upbringing which prohibits them from being able to deal with the lows in their lives. But people can be given councilling and training to show them how to deal with depression and they can lead normal non-depressed lives afterwards.

You also speak about people who become depressed because of a single event or range of events in their lives such as an accident or some form of abuse. These people don't have an imbalance in their brain. They have something that they are unable to deal with - often the most effective treatment for this is councilling which enables the person to deal with what happened and subsequently deal with the depression that the event caused.

Modern mental health initiatives are few and far between in rural ireland (unfortunately), however, there are a few that assist in the treatment of mental health issues such as depression.

These initiatives include: mental health clinics and drop in centres in most towns, day centres for elderly, mens groups - especially in rural isolated areas where there may be many batchelor farmers, the men can meet on a regular basis, go on outings, play games, talk about issues, have health screening etc. etc.
Things that we don't even notice are often the best treatments. Take teagasc discussion groups that get farmers together on a regular basis, or the mart. People often say that money is foolishly spent by the govt on teagasc, but it does provide a good service which in tune saves the government money on mental health treatment. Marts too!!!

Other initiatives include employment services for people with depression (this is what i work at). We offer a supported employment service to people who are recovering and need an occupation. Having a job to go to is proven to be one of the best treatments for depression available.

Finally, in ireland, we are so far behind other countries with out treatment of mental health and unfortunately we still have a legacy of thousands of people who were instatutionalised in the last 50 years and who are now almost zombies after the treatment that the received. The new focus for mental health in ireland is how to prevent depression. We've spent many years treating it, wouldn't it be much better if people didn't have depression at all?? Certainly our suicide rate would be lowered.

In the US, they have already rolled out Positive Psychology which focuses on keeping people at risk of depression well. Its a long way off in this country, unfortunately, but there are a few pioneers of it here, trying to get it off the ground.

The most important thing that everyone should remember is that we all have high and low points in our life. It only takes a small trigger to leave us that we aren't able to deal with one of these lows. Therefore, any one of us can suffer from depression. Its not a crime or anything to be ashamed of either!!!!! 1 in 3 people will suffer from depression during their lifetime.

excellent post although i would like to comment on one area of it , you refered to the practice of putting huge numbers of people in mental homes over the years in a few places , while this may have been the case ( 50 years + ) in the past , it is completley the other way around now , its extremley difficult to have someone committed against thier will nowadays , while many see this is as only a positive thing , its a disaster for a tiny few , i wont go into detail as this isnt the point of the thread but you more or less have to kill soemone nowadays and claim hitler told you to do it in order to be permanently institutionalized , the system is completley dominated by PC liberals

reilig

irishh_bob wrote: »

excellent post although i would like to comment on one area of it , you refered to the practice of putting huge numbers of people in mental homes over the years in a few places , while this may have been the case ( 50 years + ) in the past , it is completley the other way around now , its extremley difficult to have someone committed against thier will nowadays , while many see this is as only a positive thing , its a disaster for a tiny few , i wont go into detail as this isnt the point of the thread but you more or less have to kill soemone nowadays and claim hitler told you to do it in order to be permanently institutionalized , the system is completley dominated by PC liberals

Totally agree with you Bob. I really don't think that mental health treatment can be administered in a fixed way, like our health system does for cancer paitents through various therapies in fixed locations, giving fixed amounts, etc. etc. Mental health treatment needs to be given on a needs basis. The majority of people don't need to be committed in order to receive treatment, but some definitely do for their own safety and the safety of the public.

The mental health policy in the past was to commit everyone. All you needed was a poor diagnosis from a gp and you could be locked up for 20 years. It was used it to get rid of people - say for example families who didn't want to care for a brother or sister with a learning difficulty after their parents had died all too often had them committed and the person themselves didn't even know what happened.

irishh_bob

reilig wrote: »

Totally agree with you Bob. I really don't think that mental health treatment can be administered in a fixed way, like our health system does for cancer paitents through various therapies in fixed locations, giving fixed amounts, etc. etc. Mental health treatment needs to be given on a needs basis. The majority of people don't need to be committed in order to receive treatment, but some definitely do for their own safety and the safety of the public.

The mental health policy in the past was to commit everyone. All you needed was a poor diagnosis from a gp and you could be locked up for 20 years. It was used it to get rid of people - say for example families who didn't want to care for a brother or sister with a learning difficulty after their parents had died all too often had them committed and the person themselves didn't even know what happened.

ive brought this up on several other forums , i have a cousin who developed serious psychiatric problems having been involved in a car accident as a child , the guy is several cans short of a six pack , is a complete religous fanatic , has an explosive temper and will tell anyone who will listen that jesus is coming to town on a bus next friday , he has made his familys like a hell for the past fifteen years , his mother has tried desperetley to have him committed yet any attempt by the local GP has been vetoed by the regional mental hospital , his family are regular met with frowns by wooly liberal do-gooder head doctors when they explain that they want him locked up , they are branded as intollerant and backward , its easy for theese ivory tower liberals to be oh so progressive and enlightened but they dont have to live with someone who is on a night basis roaring and screaming that the weatherman is the devil in disguise , as i said in an earlier post , time was , people were put in the nuthouse for merley having a silly haircut , the pendelum has now completley swung the other way and unless you kill everyone on your street , they wont lock you up

whelan1

we have a woman on our road and she stands outside her house from early morning til night looking , even in the lashings of rain, with no coat or jumper :mad: we have rang the guards , her family , doctors etc and she is still there , a neighbour up the road went to social services about her and was told its all attention seeking and there is nothing they can do ffs , this country needs to wisen up , that poor woman doesnt seem to be on this planet at all

irishh_bob

whelan1 wrote: »

we have a woman on our road and she stands outside her house from early morning til night looking , even in the lashings of rain, with no coat or jumper :mad: we have rang the guards , her family , doctors etc and she is still there , a neighbour up the road went to social services about her and was told its all attention seeking and there is nothing they can do ffs , this country needs to wisen up , that poor woman doesnt seem to be on this planet at all

nothing will be done about that woman , thier is a middle aged man three or four miles from where i live who is alot like that , whenever im driving to town to the bank or whatever , i see him shuffling along in all weathers , he is clearly not the full schilling and it would be a charity to place this man in care , most people are unaware of the changes that have been made as regards our mental health services , they hear storys from thier parents about people who were put in the big house indefinatley back years ago and assume things are still the same , they dont realise that its completley different nowadays and the PC liberal idealogues who call the shots dont believe in ever locking anyone ( against thier will ) up indedefinatley , keep an ear out for something called CARE IN THE COMMUNITY , its a radical new approch which aims to close all mental hospitals in this country in the next few years and simply release the patients back into the community and have them visit doctors as outpatients on a regular basis , its a completley unrealistic attitude venture but one which has the liberal do - gooders wetting themselves with anticipation

thier will always be people who are simply not all in it , thats a cold hard fact , much better to protect theese people by placing them in care instead of subscribing to some high minded crap where talking to someone on a caring tone will make them come back to reality

the world doesnt work like that im afraid

pakalasa

I've just been reading through the posts and the discussion has gone from the original topic of Suicide in the farming community, to awarness of mental health issues and then to a 'why dont they lock up those who are not the full shilling'.
You cant but laugh at the irony.
Thank God for professionals, that's all I can say!:mad:

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

I've just been reading through the posts and the discussion has gone from the original topic of Suicide in the farming community, to awarness of mental health issues and then to a 'why dont they lock up those who are not the full shilling'.
You cant but laugh at the irony.
Thank God for professionals, that's all I can say!:mad:

Suicide is all about mental health and until the Irish public and the health service realise that and work to tackle the stigma of mental health that stops people seeking help then we will continue to have a high suicide rate rate among farmers and the general public.

irishh_bob

pakalasa wrote: »

I've just been reading through the posts and the discussion has gone from the original topic of Suicide in the farming community, to awarness of mental health issues and then to a 'why dont they lock up those who are not the full shilling'.
You cant but laugh at the irony.
Thank God for professionals, that's all I can say!:mad:

more broad brush strokes which are typical of the PC liberal brigade , no one is suggesting that someone with depression should be locked up , a poster refered to a woman who is clearly unable to function like a normal person and is left to wander around helplessly , i myself gave another example of a man who is in the same state , people like you when shown theese examples love nothing better than to scream that we want everyone who ever felt low sent straight to the big house indefinatley

whelan1

exactly the whole system is failing these people and there is nowhere for them to go to get help ..... now i dont feel these people should be "locked up " but surely a social worker to keep an eye on them or a public health nurse could call on them once a week to check they are in the land of the living - in fairness in our case all the neighbours rally round this woman to make sure she is ok but the whole system has let her down

Ding Dong

I told my Uncle that I wanted to get into farming full time and give up the office job. He told me I was mental!... I guess its all about perception...;)

irishh_bob

whelan1 wrote: »

exactly the whole system is failing these people and there is nowhere for them to go to get help ..... now i dont feel these people should be "locked up " but surely a social worker to keep an eye on them or a public health nurse could call on them once a week to check they are in the land of the living - in fairness in our case all the neighbours rally round this woman to make sure she is ok but the whole system has let her down

with respect , people like that woman you refer to most likely require care on a 24 hr basis , some young do-gooder social worker calling in once a week and writing up some meaningless report isnt going to ensure the poor woman has a hot meal or a warm bed , the liberals who now run the system believe that taking away someones freedom ( putting person in permanent care ) is a greater human rights abuse than allowing said person to go hungary , cold or devoid of nescessery medical attention , i for one believe the former is cruel and backward