1 in 5 Americans believe Obama is a Muslim

Jonny7

Link here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11027568


That headline should be..

1 in 5 Americans told Obama is a Muslim.


Look, from a distance, over here in Europe, its easy to see the party politics going on.. but jesus christ it is getting wildly out of control, especially from the Conservative media/pundits.

kev9100

What do you expect? A large proportion of Americans either have no interest in current affairs or get their news from highly questionable sources.

Memnoch

That figure rises to 34% of Republicans. Seriously, if 34% of a political party are so grossly misinformed about such an obvious and basic FACT, imagine how clueless and deluded they must be for any issue with even a hint of nuance.

Fox news strikes again. All hail fox news.

Amerika

Jonny7 wrote: »

Look, from a distance, over here in Europe, its easy to see the party politics going on.. but jesus christ it is getting wildly out of control, especially from the Conservative media/pundits.

I’m a Conservative, a Republican, a Tea Party member, and no fan of Obama. But I’ve got to burst your bubble. Nobody of consequence is telling anyone here that he is a Muslim, as far as I know. I and most everyone I know pretty much just considers him to be a Christian, albeit a non-practicing Christian, but still a Christian. But I could be wrong in my contention about Conservative media/pundits, and I’m sure you will provide backup for your accusation.

But to keep things interesting, lets look at it from another perspective only for argument sake. As the son of a Muslim father, is he not considered a Muslim under Muslim law? And I think it makes no difference whatsoever that his father said he renounced his religion? Also, under Muslim law, based on the Koran, his mother’s Christian background is totally irrelevant, right?

Also if he is considered an apostasy, has he not committed the worst of all crimes in Muslim law? And I ask you, under the strict teachings of Islam, what would be his appropriate punishment? All I've got to say is thank God President Obama lives in this country and not in Iran or some of the Malaysian states.

Overheal

Speak of the devil - thats all Limbaugh was ranting about on my lunch break.

time42play

A woman I know online is convinced that Obama was born in Kenya and is secretly a Muslim. Once I got past the racially-tinged stuff she wrote, I replied to ask why she thought that. Her answer was that her pastor said so, and as a man of God he's obviously telling the truth. Apparently her entire congregation wrote letters protesting that his birth certificate needs to be made public. The small-mindedness astounds me (and yes I KNOW they're not the majority).

None of my family living in the US are Obama fans either, but they don't believe he's anything other than a Christian.

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

Speak of the devil - thats all Limbaugh was ranting about on my lunch break.

So Rush was claiming that Obama is a Muslim?

Overheal

Even Rush is not that tactless. But he did seem to go on for a spell about how much of a Christian Obama supposedly was. Then I put on my Third Eye Blind CD. Ursa Major aint too bad.

demonspawn

In all fairness, so much of Obama's life has been hidden from the public. The fact that he wasn't even born in the U.S. is a pretty big one seeing as any presidential candidate has to be a citizen by birth.

I can't blame the American public for being suspicious about who the hell this man really is or what his intentions are. He promised change, but I don't think it was the change everyone was expecting.

kev9100

demonspawn wrote: »

In all fairness, so much of Obama's life has been hidden from the public. The fact that he wasn't even born in the U.S. is a pretty big one seeing as any presidential candidate has to be a citizen by birth.

First of all, Hawaii is a U.S State and thus, Obama was born in the U.S. Second of all, there is very little about Obama's life that is hidden.

Jonny7

Amerika wrote: »

I’m a Conservative, a Republican, a Tea Party member, and no fan of Obama. But I’ve got to burst your bubble. Nobody of consequence is telling anyone here that he is a Muslim, as far as I know. I and most everyone I know pretty much just considers him to be a Christian, albeit a non-practicing Christian, but still a Christian. But I could be wrong in my contention about Conservative media/pundits, and I’m sure you will provide backup for your accusation.

But to keep things interesting, lets look at it from another perspective only for argument sake. As the son of a Muslim father, is he not considered a Muslim under Muslim law? And I think it makes no difference whatsoever that his father said he renounced his religion? Also, under Muslim law, based on the Koran, his mother’s Christian background is totally irrelevant, right?

Also if he is considered an apostasy, has he not committed the worst of all crimes in Muslim law? And I ask you, under the strict teachings of Islam, what would be his appropriate punishment? All I've got to say is thank God President Obama lives in this country and not in Iran or some of the Malaysian states.

You've just done the most hilarious thing.

Here I'll try it..

Look I know Obama isn't a child molestor, but I mean for arguments sake.. blah blah.. child molestor.. his uncle.. blah blah.. 4% of Afro americans are convicted child molestors.. blah blah.. just putting it out there.. blah blah.. just asking questions.. child molestor.. child molestor.. child molester..

metrovelvet

Jonny7 wrote: »

You've just done the most hilarious thing.

Here I'll try it..

Look I know Obama isn't a child molestor, but I mean for arguments sake.. blah blah.. child molestor.. his uncle.. blah blah.. 4% of Afro americans are convicted child molestors.. blah blah.. just putting it out there.. blah blah.. just asking questions.. child molestor.. child molestor.. child molester..

What? Can you re write that in English?

demonspawn

kev9100 wrote: »

First of all, Hawaii is a U.S State and thus, Obama was born in the U.S. Second of all, there is very little about Obama's life that is hidden.

The only evidence of his birth is a laser printed copy of a certificate of live birth with no official stamps, no signatures, no nothing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/BarackObamaCertificationOfLiveBirthHawaii.jpg

This is what an actual certificate of live birth from Hawaii looked like in 1961:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1961_Hawaii_Certificate_Of_Live_Birth.jpg

kev9100

Jonny7 wrote: »

Look I know Obama isn't a child molestor, but I mean for arguments sake.. blah blah.. child molestor.. his uncle.. blah blah.. 4% of Afro americans are convicted child molestors.. blah blah.. just putting it out there.. blah blah.. just asking questions.. child molestor.. child molestor.. child molester..

Come again?

metrovelvet

Jonny7 wrote: »

Link here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11027568


That headline should be..

1 in 5 Americans told Obama is a Muslim.


Look, from a distance, over here in Europe, its easy to see the party politics going on.. but jesus christ it is getting wildly out of control, especially from the Conservative media/pundits.

It's because his name ryhmes with Osama. There's only a one letter difference.

Probably also because his first name has semitic roots. Its kind of like thinking Kennedy was Catholic.

Amerika

kev9100 wrote: »

First of all, Hawaii is a U.S State and thus, Obama was born in the U.S. Second of all, there is very little about Obama's life that is hidden.

True, except maybe for just a couple of things:

• Why won’t Obama allow the public to see his doctor-generated, hospital-released birth certificate?
  
• Was Obama officially adopted by his Muslim stepfather when he lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather, from the ages of approximately 6 to 10 years old?
  
• Did Obama ever renounce his U.S. passport? Has Obama ever traveled internationally on a passport other than a U.S. State Department-issued passport?
  
• Did Obama travel to Pakistan as a student on a U.S. passport, or on an Indonesian passport? Why did Obama travel to Pakistan, who did he visit there and what was the purpose of the trip?
  
• How did Obama pay his tuition at the exclusive high school preparatory Punahou Academy he attended in Hawaii, as well as his college tuition at Occidental in California and at Columbia at New York?
  
• How did Obama pay his tuition at Harvard Law School?
  
• Why will Obama release none of the school records at any of the schools he attended?
  
• Obama’s school records in Indonesia show that at both the Catholic and public school he attended there he was registered as a "Muslim" and an "Indonesian Citizen." Was Obama ever officially instructed in Islam, even in elementary school?
  
• Why has Obama refused to discuss the clients he served when he worked for the law firm of Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland in Chicago?
  
• Did Obama ever receive any money from the millions Rezko borrowed to redevelop the low-income housing projects in Chicago that Rezko evidently defrauded of the improvements contracted by Obama's firm?
  
• Has Obama’s campaign instituted sufficient fiscal controls to determine if any credit card contributions made to his 2008 presidential campaign have come illegally from foreign sources? Have any such foreign contributions been reported to Federal Election Commission authorities and returned, as required by federal law?
  
• Has Obama ever renounced black liberation theology as espoused by its chief apologist, James Cone?
  
• Has Obama ever renounced Islam?
  
• Why have the detailed minutes and funding activities of the Woods Fund and the Annenberg Challenge documents in which William Ayers and Barack Obama participated never been completely released to the public?

Nodin

Amerika wrote: »

True, except maybe for just a couple of things:

• Why won’t Obama allow the public to see his doctor-generated, hospital-released birth certificate?
  
• Was Obama officially adopted by his Muslim stepfather when he lived in Indonesia with his mother and stepfather, from the ages of approximately 6 to 10 years old?
  
• Did Obama ever renounce his U.S. passport? Has Obama ever traveled internationally on a passport other than a U.S. State Department-issued passport?
  
• Did Obama travel to Pakistan as a student on a U.S. passport, or on an Indonesian passport? Why did Obama travel to Pakistan, who did he visit there and what was the purpose of the trip?
  
• How did Obama pay his tuition at the exclusive high school preparatory Punahou Academy he attended in Hawaii, as well as his college tuition at Occidental in California and at Columbia at New York?
  
• How did Obama pay his tuition at Harvard Law School?
  
• Why will Obama release none of the school records at any of the schools he attended?
  
• Obama’s school records in Indonesia show that at both the Catholic and public school he attended there he was registered as a "Muslim" and an "Indonesian Citizen." Was Obama ever officially instructed in Islam, even in elementary school?
  
• Why has Obama refused to discuss the clients he served when he worked for the law firm of Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland in Chicago?
  
• Did Obama ever receive any money from the millions Rezko borrowed to redevelop the low-income housing projects in Chicago that Rezko evidently defrauded of the improvements contracted by Obama's firm?
  
• Has Obama’s campaign instituted sufficient fiscal controls to determine if any credit card contributions made to his 2008 presidential campaign have come illegally from foreign sources? Have any such foreign contributions been reported to Federal Election Commission authorities and returned, as required by federal law?
  
• Has Obama ever renounced black liberation theology as espoused by its chief apologist, James Cone?
  
• Has Obama ever renounced Islam?
  
• Why have the detailed minutes and funding activities of the Woods Fund and the Annenberg Challenge documents in which William Ayers and Barack Obama participated never been completely released to the public?

Yep, the usual equivocation from you.

Anonymous1987

The full report is here.

A quote from the report:

60% of those who say Obama is a Muslim cite the media. Among specific media sources, television (at 16%) is mentioned most frequently. About one-in-ten (11%) of those who say Obama is a Muslim say they learned of this through Obama's own words and behavior.

It also found that people more likely to disagree with Obama tend to think he is a Muslim. The amount of misinformation about Obama is shocking.

Jonny7

metrovelvet wrote: »

What? Can you re write that in English?

I think you are missing the point here. The poster Amerika, says that they know Obama isn't a muslim. That's clear enough. Then for some strange reason there is this..

"But to keep things interesting, lets look at it from another perspective only for argument sake. As the son of a Muslim father, is he not considered a Muslim under Muslim law? And I think it makes no difference whatsoever that his father said he renounced his religion? Also, under Muslim law, based on the Koran, his mother’s Christian background is totally irrelevant, right?

Also if he is considered an apostasy, has he not committed the worst of all crimes in Muslim law? And I ask you, under the strict teachings of Islam, what would be his appropriate punishment? All I've got to say is thank God President Obama lives in this country and not in Iran or some of the Malaysian states."

Media pundits do this all the time, either as filler, or because they have an agenda. Usually the latter.

I just did my own lazy 16 second version of it tying Obama with the words 'child molestor'

Its just another technique, but its effective.

If you can't tie Obama directly to being a Muslim then create as much doubt as possible about the (non)issue.

Amerika

Anonymous1987 wrote: »

The full report is here.

Gee, I didn’t see anywhere in the report that they got the idea from "Conservative media/pundits" as claimed. Who knows, maybe they got the idea from Keith Overbite or Rachel Madcow.

Anonymous1987

Amerika wrote: »

Gee, I didn’t see anywhere in the report that they got the idea from "Conservative media/pundits" as claimed. Who knows, maybe they got the idea from Keith Overbite or Rachel Madcow.

I actually wasn't referring to conservative media in particular, its pretty obvious that both sides engage in their own persuasive programming. Nevertheless suggesting this originated from MSNBC is a poor attempt at a wind-up.

metrovelvet

Jonny7 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point here. The poster Amerika, says that they know Obama isn't a muslim. That's clear enough. Then for some strange reason there is this..

"But to keep things interesting, lets look at it from another perspective only for argument sake. As the son of a Muslim father, is he not considered a Muslim under Muslim law? And I think it makes no difference whatsoever that his father said he renounced his religion? Also, under Muslim law, based on the Koran, his mother’s Christian background is totally irrelevant, right?

Also if he is considered an apostasy, has he not committed the worst of all crimes in Muslim law? And I ask you, under the strict teachings of Islam, what would be his appropriate punishment? All I've got to say is thank God President Obama lives in this country and not in Iran or some of the Malaysian states."

Media pundits do this all the time, either as filler, or because they have an agenda. Usually the latter.

I just did my own lazy 16 second version of it tying Obama with the words 'child molestor'

Its just another technique, but its effective.

If you can't tie Obama directly to being a Muslim then create as much doubt as possible about the (non)issue.

No that still doesnt make any sense.

I read Amerika's comment as trying to see it from a non ethno centric perspective. To Muslims, Obama is a muslim.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

metrovelvet

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Fox is like locker room news.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Gee, I didn’t see anywhere in the report that they got the idea from "Conservative media/pundits" as claimed. Who knows, maybe they got the idea from Keith Overbite or Rachel Madcow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5F-3OTxdKk

Then again this Hannity F*cker... you watching this Amerika?

Amerika wrote:

Gee, I didn’t see anywhere in the report that they got the idea from "Conservative media/pundits" as claimed. Who knows, maybe they got the idea from Keith Overbite or Rachel Madcow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdaxYNG_UeA

<--- The Denial....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvtZUNAzD68

<--- The Denied

edit: and Hume

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIYqI4VUDlM

Mjollnir

demonspawn wrote: »

In all fairness, so much of Obama's life has been hidden from the public. The fact that he wasn't even born in the U.S. is a pretty big one seeing as any presidential candidate has to be a citizen by birth.

I can't blame the American public for being suspicious about who the hell this man really is or what his intentions are. He promised change, but I don't think it was the change everyone was expecting.

Yawn. Same old tripe.

Do you have any evidence that he was, in fact, born outside the US?

Overheal

demonspawn wrote:

The fact that he wasn't even born in the U.S.

Even though that is in fact, not a fact...

Sand

Whats so bad about being a Muslim?

It could be worse. He could be an atheist. At least Muslims believe in God and Jesus.

kev9100

Sand wrote: »

Whats so bad about being a Muslim?

It could be worse. He could be an atheist. At least Muslims believe in God and Jesus.

What is wrong with being an atheist? In fact, why does anyone care about his religion at all? You vote for the man, not for the church he does or does not attend.

metrovelvet

Sand wrote: »

Whats so bad about being a Muslim?

It could be worse. He could be an atheist. At least Muslims believe in God and Jesus.

No. It's worse. They believe in Mohammad and a whole bunch of patriarchal crap.

I think BO can forget about a second term after this.

Overheal

kev9100 wrote: »

What is wrong with being an atheist? In fact, why does anyone care about his religion at all? You vioe for the man, not for the church he does or does not attend.

I think he was being satirical :pac:

cos if he wasn't! :mad:

oscarBravo

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think BO can forget about a second term after this.

This what? This thread? This smear campaign?

demonspawn

demonspawn wrote: »

The only evidence of his birth is a laser printed copy of a certificate of live birth with no official stamps, no signatures, no nothing.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/BarackObamaCertificationOfLiveBirthHawaii.jpg

This is what an actual certificate of live birth from Hawaii looked like in 1961:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1961_Hawaii_Certificate_Of_Live_Birth.jpg

I'll quote my own post as nobody seems to have addressed Obama's lack of an original birth certificate.

Anyone care to explain why Obama's "official" birth cert has no doctor's name or signature, no hospital, nothing that can positively identify the place of birth? Because apparently he was born somewhere in Honolulu and that's as far as we get.

demonspawn

Mjollnir wrote: »

Do you have any evidence that he was, in fact, born outside the US?

Show me one piece of evidence that says he was born in the hospital he claims to have been born in. A birth cert will do.

Overheal

demonspawn wrote: »

I'll quote my own post as nobody seems to have addressed Obama's lack of an original birth certificate.

Anyone care to explain why Obama's "official" birth cert has no doctor's name or signature, no hospital, nothing that can positively identify the place of birth? Because apparently he was born somewhere in Honolulu and that's as far as we get.

If the Republic Party, in control of the Executive Branch at the time of the Election failed to find evidence that Barack Obama was not a US Born Citizen then who are you to say that he is "for a fact" a foreign-born US Citizen?

CokaColumbo

Jonny7 wrote: »

You've just done the most hilarious thing.

Here I'll try it..

Look I know Obama isn't a child molestor, but I mean for arguments sake.. blah blah.. child molestor.. his uncle.. blah blah.. 4% of Afro americans are convicted child molestors.. blah blah.. just putting it out there.. blah blah.. just asking questions.. child molestor.. child molestor.. child molester..

You are completely mischaracterising Amerika's point.

demonspawn

Overheal wrote: »

If the Republic Party, in control of the Executive Branch at the time of the Election failed to find evidence that Barack Obama was not a US Born Citizen then who are you to say that he is "for a fact" a foreign-born US Citizen?

That still does not address my post. Please explain what happened to his original birth certificate. It's hard to find evidence that may not exist anymore, and the lack of evidence does not automatically make someone innocent.

You ask me to show evidence he was not born in the U.S., I ask you to show evidence that he was. Surely your job will be a lot easier than mine, no?

Overheal

demonspawn wrote: »

That still does not address my post. Please explain what happened to his original birth certificate. It's hard to find evidence that may not exist anymore, and the lack of evidence does not automatically make someone innocent.

You ask me to show evidence he was not born in the U.S., I ask you to show evidence that he was. Surely your job will be a lot easier than mine, no?

And your post doesn't really address mine: so we'll call it evens.

My point being that the GOP only needed to prove he was not born of this country to disqualify his electability. They could not. You can not. And the law has I would assume already spoken on this issue; or the Attorney General, Supreme Court, whathaveyou, would not have allowed his presidency without the proof that you yourself so adamantly demand.

demonspawn

Overheal wrote: »

And your post doesn't really address mine: so we'll call it evens.

My point being that the GOP only needed to prove he was not born of this country to disqualify his electability. They could not. You can not. And the law has I would assume already spoken on this issue; or the Attorney General, Supreme Court, whathaveyou, would not have allowed his presidency without the proof that you yourself so adamantly demand.

Actually, let's not call it even as say we did.

I have as much faith in the U.S. Supreme Court as I do with the endless tribunals we have in this country.

Show me a birth certificate signed by a doctor at the hospital Mr. Obama was allegedly born in or simply admit that's it's possible he's not actually a natural born U.S. citizen.

I honestly don't know if he was born in Hawaii or not, and there's where the problem lies. Would you agree?

Edit: And actually, I believe addressed your post sufficiently. "It's hard to find evidence that may not exist anymore, and the lack of evidence does not automatically make someone innocent."

Overheal

It's only worrisome if you buy into the CT that our POTUS is a Middle Eastern plant to further Arabic agenda. In which case I have a video here of a Cooper 360 interview regarding Terror Babies you must watch.

demonspawn

Overheal wrote: »

It's only worrisome if you buy into the CT that our POTUS is a Middle Eastern plant to further Arabic agenda.

No, it's worrisome to know that the leader of the free world may not be what he claims to be. It has nothing to do with Islam or the Middle East. There could be rumors that he came from Oz and I'd have to consider it in the face of such a lack of documentation about this man.

Overheal

Theres plenty of documentation; just a lot of concern over a single document in particular. And as an independent it's only ready to me like a tactic on the right to try and get the guy disqualified as a candidate and impeached as the serving CiC.

For what its worth, there are constitutional safeguards in place to ensure that even if a president were posessed by aliens, satan, or the flying spaghetti monster, he would be shut down before he could do any serious harm. A Sitting president for example does not have the overriding authority to launch a nuke without someone else in the loop. If enough members of the cabinet found him unfit, he will be tossed like a spud.

demonspawn

Overheal wrote: »

Theres plenty of documentation; just a lot of concern over a single document in particular. And as an independent it's only ready to me like a tactic on the right to try and get the guy disqualified as a candidate and impeached as the serving CiC.

The single most important document in any person's life? Without an original birth certificate, you simply do not exist (legally speaking). You can't get a social security number, a passport, nothing without a birth cert.

Granted, it's a cheap tactic used by the Reps to have him removed but it brings up a pretty massive issue all the same, doesn't it? Personally, I hate Reps as much as I hate PC Dems so I really have no bias coming into this debate. I just want to know how Mr. Obama got by for so many years without an original birth certificate to show that he is who he says he is.

The term "Manchurian Candidate" springs to mind when I think of Obama.

Overheal

demonspawn wrote: »

The single most important document in any person's life? Without an original birth certificate, you simply do not exist (legally speaking). You can't get a social security number, a passport, nothing without a birth cert.

And yet he has a Social Security Number, and Passport. /shrug

demonspawn

Overheal wrote: »

And yet he has a Social Security Number, and Passport. /shrug

And you don't think that's a bit unusual? That's sets off all sorts of red flags in my head, but then I'm the type that swallows insane conspiracy theories hook, line, and sinker.

Einhard

1 in 5 Americans are idiots then.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

demonspawn

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

As far as I'm aware, the citizenship of George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H. W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, or any other recent president was never called into question.

It's understandable that people may question Mr. Obama's nationality considering his early childhood (moving around so much etc.). I think the least he could do is supply his original birth cert (not some laser-printed copy with minimal information) to address any concerns the general public may have. I don't see what the problem is with supplying the original, unless it doesn't exist or is different from what we've seen.

Edit: Just so we're clear. The idea of Obama being Muslim doesn't concern me in the slightest. In fact, I think the U.S. could benefit greatly from having a Muslim president. The U.S. is festering and needs some fresh input.

southsiderosie

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Amen. How can he be a Muslim and a Black liberation theologist? And for that matter, how can he be a communist and a fascist and a socialist? FFS.

Overheal wrote: »

If the Republic Party, in control of the Executive Branch at the time of the Election failed to find evidence that Barack Obama was not a US Born Citizen then who are you to say that he is "for a fact" a foreign-born US Citizen?

Either Republicans made the biggest mistake in the history of campaign tactics...or there is nothing there. I'm going with the latter.

There are plenty of reasons to be unhappy with the Obama administration. But harping on this kind of stuff just makes conservatives look like lunatics.

demonspawn

I was raised Roman Catholic, but I used to go to the Krishna temple in Dublin for the free Sunday lunch*. Should I now be dancing around airports singing "Hare Hare Krishna"?

Obama would not have turned to ash if he entered a Christian church as a Muslim. It could very well be that he is a non-practicing Muslim and his wife and children are Christian. But no, that would be too far beyond the realm of reasonable thought.

*The lunch was actually really great in a lovely environment. I recommend going if you haven't yet. Most Krishnas won't hound you to buy a book, if they do just politely decline and they leave you alone. Really great bunch of folks if you ask me.

Overheal

But now with that you're just speculating. Wildly. There is a Conspiracy Theories forum.