French expulsion of Roma to begin Thursday

The_Minister

http://euobserver.com/9/30637

The deportation of Roma from France back to their countries of origin is to begin on Thursday the French government has announced.

With 51 Roma camps across the country now broken up over the past month and a further almost 250 to meet the same fate by October, some 700 Roma will be put on planes by the end of August.

The first of Roma will leave France on Thursday when 79 are to be returned. Immigration minister Eric Besson said that the Roma involved had agreed to return of their own will, reports Le Monde. Adults receive €300 in cash for returning while €100 is given for children.

To prevent them coming back again and receiving return monies again, the French authorities are planning to take biometric data from those who are flown home.

Under EU rules, Roma are free to travel to France but have to prove they can support themselves in order to be allowed to stay longer than three months. Some 15,000 such Roma coming from central and eastern Europe, but predominantly Romania, are thought to be in France.

The destruction of camps is part of a wider security clampdown announced by French President Nicolas Sarkozy at the end of July. The move attracted immediate criticism from the left opposition but more recently also from politicians within the ranks of the president's centre-right UMP party.

"We are not stigmatising a community, but making people respect the law," interior minister Brice Hortefeux said justifying the moves on Tuesday (17 August).

The French authorities point out that last year some 10,000 Roma were deported from France to Bulgaria and Romania.

Mr Besson, for his part, acknowledged that some deportees might return and are allowed to "as it is the law" but they "cannot settle illegally, let alone receive assisted voluntary return."

He also hit back at criticism by a fellow UMP politician who likened the evacuation of the camps to World War II round-ups, saying he would rather such language is not used.

"People are interviewed, their identity is verified and we offer them money to go back to their country of origin," he told radio station RTL on Tuesday. "I would like someone to explain the connection with the round-ups of World War II."

Meanwhile Romania has expressed its concern about the potential problems arising from France's policy.

"I am concerned about the risks of this sliding into populism and generating certain xenophobic reaction against the backdrop of the economic crisis," foreign minister Teodor Baconschi said in an interview with RFI Romania.

"If we trade accusations or we collectively criminalise ethnic groups, we revive memories, among them less pleasant ones, and instead of finding solutions we will generate tensions," he added.

Two Romanian secretaries of state are due to travel to France on 30 August to discuss the integration of Roma and "how to prevent crimes."

What do people think?
Should we follow suit, or is it a racist policy?

Fukuyama

Deporting criminals is not illegal. French authorities targeted Roma as they are known to have a high criminal rate... not racist. Makes sense.

MrStuffins

The French are only doing what we're all thinking :pac:

Cookie_Monster

Yes we should follow suit, deport them all to France :pac:

starbelgrade

Well, that's a stupid policy - who the hell is gonna wash people's windscreens at the traffic lights now?

prinz

Deporting illegal immigrants is not racist.

Stercus Accidit

Who wants to take bets on when this thread gets godwinned, I'll go with 40'ish posts in.

WindSock

The_Minister wrote: »

http://euobserver.com/9/30637


What do people think?
Should we follow suit, or is it a racist policy?

They could earn a nice packet if every country in Europe did this. Plus there is feck all to stop them from re entering illegally.

WindSock

Dean0088 wrote: »

Deporting criminals is not illegal. French authorities targeted Roma as they are known to have a high criminal rate... not racist. Makes sense.

British authorities targetted Irish immigrants in the 70's because the Irish are known to have links with the IRA...

PaddyBomb

starbelgrade wrote: »

Well, that's a stupid policy - who the hell is gonna wash people's windscreens at the traffic lights now?

Now they're too lazy to even wash your windows. They just walk down the line of cars with a cup and ask you for money.

Get rid of them.

Royal Irish

Dean0088 wrote: »

Deporting criminals is not illegal. French authorities targeted Roma as they are known to have a high criminal rate... not racist. Makes sense.

Just because there is a high crime rate in a ethnic minority doesnt mean they should all be deported.

It seems to me its becoming fashionable to be racist in France.

Morlar

The_Minister wrote: »

What do people think?
Should we follow suit, or is it a racist policy?

We should definitely follow suit.

In fact we should be able to do things like this without waiting for other countries to tip their toes in the water first.

mike65

Are the French turfing any other illegals out?

prinz

mike65 wrote: »

Are the French turfing any other illegals out?

When they are caught yes. The Roma situation is hugely different to most illegal immigrants in that they are very visible, and constructing illegal shanty towns etc.

KindOfIrish

Populist political theatre and huge waste of taxpayers money. All those Roma are EU nationals. They will be paid 300 euro each and free flight to home. 2-3 weeks relax in Romania and thay all be back to France by mid September for a new season

Cookie_Monster

Royal Irish wrote: »

It seems to me its becoming fashionable to be racist in France.

hasn't it always been?

I have only one thing to say about this..


NA NA, NA NA NA NA, WAAAA-AAAAVEE GOOOODBYEEEE

Fukuyama

WindSock wrote: »

British authorities targetted Irish immigrants in the 70's because the Irish are known to have links with the IRA...

In fairness... they were at war with the IRA. Plus most emmigrants to the UK from the south would have been republican sympathisers. A few pints down the pub and we start talking bollocks... makes sense.

Two scenarios are VERY different.

mike65

I don't recall any stories of "ordinary" Irish in Britain being turfed out routinely, some people didn't get in of course as they had exclusion orders against them.

Renn

Plus most emmigrants to the UK from the south would have been republican sympathisers.

Really?

ejmaztec

Dean0088 wrote: »

In fairness... they were at war with the IRA. Plus most emmigrants to the UK from the south would have been republican sympathisers. A few pints down the pub and we start talking bollocks... makes sense.

Two scenarios are VERY different.

I think that's way way off the mark.

longshanks

so thet set up illegal campsites, are known thieves and criminals, have no respect for society at large and are generally considered a menace. fair play to france for addressing the problem.
imagine if that kind of thing went on here...... oh wait, do these roma keep ponies?

Beruthiel

mike65 wrote: »

Are the French turfing any other illegals out?

I have a friend who is a french cop and his job is accompanying illegals back to their country of origin. So yes, the French turf out illegals all the time.

Waestrel

Why does no one complain when people (often Irish) are deported from Australia?

The ozzies have the right idea, if you want to stay there, you will do it legally.

WindSock

mike65 wrote: »

I don't recall any stories of "ordinary" Irish in Britain being turfed out routinely, some people didn't get in of course as they had exclusion orders against them.

No, they were just falsely accused of crimes they didn't commit and turfed into jail instead. Hey, they were Paddies, they must have been crims.

ejmaztec

WindSock wrote: »

No, they were just falsely accused of crimes they didn't commit and turfed into jail instead. Hey, they were Paddies, they must have been crims.

"Innocent until proven Irish"

Hamiltonion

I dont see why they should be paid to go home, they should be given a week and after that forcefully removed

mike65

WindSock, are you stirring things? You make an accusation and then when challanged on it you change your mind and move the goalposts.

WindSock

mike65 wrote: »

WindSock, are you stirring things? You make an accusation and then when challanged on it you change your mind and move the goalposts.

No I am not stirring or moving goalposts. I was responding to this post initially;

Dean0088 wrote: »

Deporting criminals is not illegal. French authorities targeted Roma as they are known to have a high criminal rate... not racist. Makes sense.

My point still stands, it is targetting an entire ethnic group because there are a few bad eggs and labelling them all as crims.

prinz

WindSock wrote: »

My point still stands, it is targetting an entire ethnic group because there are a few bad eggs and labelling them all as crims.

If they are there illegally that is what they are. Face the music like everyone else.

WindSock

prinz wrote: »

If they are there illegally that is what they are. Face the music like everyone else.

There are probably heaps of other nationalities that are there illegally too. Are the Roma even there illegally? I thought they were from EU member states.

Blazer

I wonder how many people on here are saying..."good for the french..we should do the same" yet the same people want the illegal Irish over in the US to be granted citizenship rights etc..

My thoughts are..if you're staying illegally then any country has the right to throw you out..don't matter if you're irish, roma etc

raah!

The French seem to be taking a very strong stance bout which minority groups they don't want to allow in their society these days. But I guess if they are illegal then it's different.

All the same, France won't be seen in the same light after all these events. (I don't really know what light france are properly seen in mind you, but I always thought it was a fairly liberal country)

prinz

WindSock wrote: »

There are probably heaps of other nationalities that are there illegally too.

Yes, and these get deported on a case by case basis. It's usually harder to spot most nationalities as they tend not to set up illegal camps and gang together which makes it so easy to deport them en masse.

WindSock wrote: »

Are the Roma even there illegally? I thought they were from EU member
states.

Yes, even as an EU citizen you can be deported if you don't fulfill certain criteria and abide by the residence laws. Doesn't make a difference if it's a Roma or an Irish citizen.

Renn

Just give up already WindSock

Pookah

prinz wrote: »

Yes, even as an EU citizen you can be deported if you don't fulfill certain criteria and abide by the residence laws. Doesn't make a difference if it's a Roma or an Irish citizen.

Not under the Schengen agreement you can't, which Romania, I believe, are not yet fully signed up to.

Morlar

raah! wrote: »

All the same, France won't be seen in the same light after all these events. (I don't really know what light france are properly seen in mind you, but I always thought it was a fairly liberal country)

I can't see tourists protesting at the sudden lack of all that 'roma cultural enhancement' no their next trip to France. France will be seen in a better light after this.

ejmaztec

raah! wrote: »

The French seem to be taking a very strong stance bout which minority groups they don't want to allow in their society these days. But I guess if they are illegal then it's different.

All the same, France won't be seen in the same light after all these events. (I don't really know what light france are properly seen in mind you, but I always thought it was a fairly liberal country)

I see them in the same light, as I think France has always had a questionable attitude towards Foreigners, whether they've been involved in illegal activities or not.

prinz

Pookah wrote: »

Not under the Schengen agreement you can't, which Romania, I believe, are not yet fully signed up to.

Yes. You can.

Pookah

prinz wrote: »

Yes. You can.

Ok, then you can.

France do it all the time, esp to foreign prisoners, an 'interdiction' as they call it, but it's illegal and will be reversed by the Court of European Rights, if the person decides to follow that route.

ejmaztec

prinz wrote: »

Yes. You can.

As you quite rightly pointed out to me when I shot myself in the foot, the last time this came up:P.

WindSock

Renn wrote: »

Just give up already WindSock

Give up what exactly?

I posted here initially to point out that it is unfair label an entire group as criminals and gave an example of the attitude toward Irish in the UK during the Troubles. Was that not an example of racism?

deandean

The Roma contribute absolutely nothing in this country, and take all they can, and then some more. Seems it's in their genes to deceive and steal.
IMO the country would only benefit if the Roma were declared Persona Non Grata here, and deported.
And ship out most of the Equality Authority Quango with them.

southsiderosie

Pookah wrote: »

Ok, then you can.

France do it all the time, esp to foreign prisoners, an 'interdiction' as they call it, but it's illegal and will be reversed by the Court of European Rights, if the person decides to follow that route.

Has anyone seen any report that actually asked Roma people, rather than talking heads, how they feel about this? I'm curious, because when I was in Belfast, apparently a lot of the Roma wanted to go home but they couldn't afford the tickets (most have big families). I think a lot of them thought that Western Europe would be the land of milk and honey (or easier shakedowns) when they were allowed to move around the EU, and they were sorely disappointed - especially in Belfast where people have absolutely no time for beggars, and they get zero assistance from the state.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that the official in the article noted that people were happy to be paid to leave...I'm just wondering what "the people" really think.

Pookah

southsiderosie wrote: »

Has anyone seen any report that actually asked Roma people, rather than talking heads, how they feel about this? I'm curious, because when I was in Belfast, apparently a lot of the Roma wanted to go home but they couldn't afford the tickets (most have big families). I think a lot of them thought that Western Europe would be the land of milk and honey (or easier shakedowns) when they were allowed to move around the EU, and they were sorely disappointed - especially in Belfast where people have absolutely no time for beggars, and they get zero assistance from the state.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting that the official in the article noted that people were happy to be paid to leave...I'm just wondering what "the people" really think.

Are you asking me?

I'm not Roma.

southsiderosie

Pookah wrote: »

Are you asking me?

I'm not Roma.

No it was a general query...hence the "has anyone seen any report..."

ejmaztec

southsiderosie wrote: »

"has anyone seen any report..."

Nope.

Pookah

southsiderosie wrote: »

No it was a general query...hence the "has anyone seen any report..."

Why quote me, then? It's just a little confusing.

The_Minister

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I have only one thing to say about this..


NA NA, NA NA NA NA, WAAAA-AAAAVEE GOOOODBYEEEE

Right up to now I have been singing 'Way-hay, Goodbye".

southsiderosie

Pookah wrote: »

Why quote me, then? It's just a little confusing.

Ah, sorry about that - your point about the ECHR got me thinking "would any individual actually want to file a lawsuit? Maybe they are glad to go, or at least to get the money". I wasn't trying to put you on the spot.

Morlar

The_Minister wrote: »

Right up to now I have been singing 'Way-hay, Goodbye".

I must say that's a bit uncalled for.