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Cowen makes Newsweek's 'Top 10 Leaders' list

  • 18-08-2010 11:43am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭


    Is this some sort of joke?

    http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/cowen-makes-newsweeks-top-10-leaders-list-469770.html
    The Taoiseach Brian Cowen has been included in a list of the top 10 leaders in the world.

    In its report, Newsweek magazine said that, along with Finance Minister Brian Lenihan, Mr Cowen has pushed through austerity packages drastic enough to win the admiration of the international community.

    But despite awarding him the title of 'Fiscal Taskmaster', the magazine said: "…The Irish aren't showing much gratitude - Cowen's ratings have plunged to a mere 18%, and his Fianna Fáil party can expect a drubbing in the 2012 national elections."

    However, the magazine added that : "There's some hope that (Cowen's) government's unpopular measures will be rewarded in the long run."


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    "There's some hope that (Cowen's) government's unpopular measures will be rewarded in the long run."
    ...by their buddies in the banking and construction industries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    This line
    The Irish aren't showing much gratitude
    is so ridiculous I don't know where to start with it - it could have been written by the FF press office, I re-read the articl for the customary mention of "tough decisions"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭kev9100


    Are they high or something?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭LookBehindYou


    Was that the 1st April edition ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    If the yanks love him so much they're more than welcome to take him and his party of idiots.

    They seem to forget who it was that brought this country to its knees in the first place.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    "There's some hope that (Cowen's) government's unpopular measures will be rewarded in the long run."

    FF are hoping for that as well....

    With regard to dishing out the austerity medicine some are getting honey whilst most get the bitter pill. Newsweek must have little to write about with a story like this. No mention of the fact that Biffo was to blame as Finance Minister for allowing much of the financial debacle to occur in the first place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Was that the 1st April edition ?
    It is their attempt for Free Advertising to get people to read their mag. All this article displays is the height of Stupid poorly research Journalism and lack of understanding of the background which led to Ireland deep recession (more like Depression) which cause the Austerity measures to be put there in the first place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭BehindTheScenes


    That article is more than likely based on poor journalistic work. The author probably skimmed through a few articles on the crisis and saw key words such as 'Cowen, fiscal deficit, cutting public sector wages.' They probably didn't delve any further than that and are ignorant to the fact that the majority of the crisis is down to him and the Bert.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭simplistic2


    Besides that obvious joke , nobody that goes into politics is a leader anyway. He/she is a follower because they subscribe to the status quo do exactly which was done before them.

    These people are not leaders they are sheep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Its all the international community care about. Figures on the balance sheet. They dont care that he is actually an uninspiring leader, they dont care that he was the incompetent at the helm that steered ireland onto the rocks, they dont care about the social consequences of FFs actions or the perceived fairness amongst the population, all they care about is getting money back on their investments, and Cowen kowtowing to the banks is what they like to see. Did they comment on why we have the largest budget deficit or rising unemployment and emigration? did they comment on why our bank bailout was said to be the cheapest but is now the dearest in the world?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    What a slap in the face for the ABFF !!! Completely out of the blue a high profile international magazine states what the intelligent people of Ireland like me have been saying for yonks !! Played golf this morning with the lads and I had this smirk on my face that will take plastic surgery to remove. Had a spring in my step and played the best round in a while.

    EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT ABFF !!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    That article is more than likely based on poor journalistic work.

    For god's sake this is Newsweek; one of the two biggest news magazines in the world . .

    This is not poor journalism ! It is a valuable external perspective and one I have long argued exists.

    We have become so caught up in blaming FF for everything; so unable to view our situation in the context of a global depression; so concerned about our own individual wellbeing and so uprepared to accept our own roles in creating 'the bubble' that we have lost all perspective.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    For god's sake this is Newsweek; one of the two biggest news magazines in the world . .

    This is not poor journalism ! It is a valuable external perspective and one I have long argued exists.

    We have become so caught up in blaming FF for everything; so unable to view our situation in the context of a global depression; so concerned about our own individual wellbeing and so uprepared to accept our own roles in creating 'the bubble' that we have lost all perspective.

    I've said it before but even if FF do a stirling job at cleaning up this mess, that doesn't overshadow the fact that they did a stirling job at making the mess worse in the first place - they have to go. Would you employ Sean Fitzpatrick to fix the bank he wrecked? Would you have let Roddy Molloy stay on to combat the mismanagement in FAS?

    And our own roles are being accepted as people struggle with their overpriced mortgages - remind me again how many loans are going into NAMA? 2000 developers with 80billion debt? Yes that deserves proportionate blame to all society. Cowen is a disgrace


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    I've said it before but even if FF do a stirling job at cleaning up this mess, that doesn't overshadow the fact that they did a stirling job at making the mess worse in the first place - they have to go. Would you employ Sean Fitzpatrick to fix the bank he wrecked? Would you have let Roddy Molloy stay on to combat the mismanagement in FAS?
    If they are best positioned to fix the mess, then they are best positioned to stay in government. To do anything else would be cutting your nose to spite your face.
    And our own roles are being accepted as people struggle with their overpriced mortgages - remind me again how many loans are going into NAMA? 2000 developers with 80billion debt? Yes that deserves proportionate blame to all society. Cowen is a disgrace
    Your example implies that when loans go into NAMA they disappear . . this isn't true, developers and those who worked in the construction industry are now struggling more than most

    http://www.propertyweek.com/comment/irish-property-community-reels-from-29-suicides-in-last-12-months/5000968.article


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    I've said it before but even if FF do a stirling job at cleaning up this mess, that doesn't overshadow the fact that they did a stirling job at making the mess worse in the first place - they have to go.

    absolutely 100% agree

    getting uis through this current situation may be admirable to some but it does not make up for what they caused


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    If they are best positioned to fix the mess, then they are best positioned to stay in government. To do anything else would be cutting your nose to spite your face.

    That's a massive "IF"; there are no facts to support it.
    Your example implies that when loans go into NAMA they disappear . .

    As we are regularly told by FF apologists, we don't know that yet.

    But the billions going into Anglo definitely disappear, and that's another of FF's choices!

    Cowen is a disgrace....even assuming that he's managed to make a few "tough decisions" about 4 years too late, he's the equivalent of a striker who has scored 50 own goals over the last 3 years and managed to score one half-decent one this season, while simultaneously costing the club at least €30 billion through bad decisions made this season.

    On balance, with everything taken into account, he and his party are a MASSIVE liability to this country.
    developers and those who worked in the construction industry are now struggling more than most

    Why ? Because the building rate for overpriced houses was unsustainable ? That just means the jobs were never really viable or sustainable.

    Any developer who has borrowed and lost billions - tough! They overstretched and gambled.

    Any small developer who did good work, charged fairly, and borrowed sensibly, then I have the ultimate respect and sympathy for; but that would make them just like most of us - hammered by an oversized impact of a recession because of FF policies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,900 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That's a massive "IF"; there are no facts to support it.

    its lazy conjecture

    no different from 'it would be even worse now IF FG/LAB had been in charge'

    hardly strong argument for voting for FF


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    That's a massive "IF"; there are no facts to support it.



    As we are regularly told by FF apologists, we don't know that yet.

    Agreed, it is conjecture . . I was reacting to Laminations argument about "if they do a stirling job at cleaning up the mess" . . If they do a stirling job between now and 2012 when we will have the next election then I will argue that they are best positioned to take the country forward for the next 5 years..
    Cowen is a disgrace....even assuming that he's managed to make a few "tough decisions" about 4 years too late, he's the equivalent of a striker who has scored 50 own goals over the last 3 years and managed to score one half-decent one this season, while simultaneously costing the club at least €30 billion through bad decisions made this season.

    Thats a fairly dodgy analogy but sacking your striker just when he has turned a corner and is beginning to show the best form of his career is probably not the best management decision in footballing terms

    Any developer who has borrowed and lost billions - tough! They overstretched and gambled.

    Any small developer who did good work, charged fairly, and borrowed sensibly, then I have the ultimate respect and sympathy for; but that would make them just like most of us - hammered by an oversized impact of a recession because of FF policies.

    I agree with all of that and I am not defending the developers. . . Simply correcting the misperception being peddled that the developers are getting an easy ride while the rest of us suffer. . .

    Not true, they probably deserve to but they are certainly suffering more than most


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Riskymove wrote: »

    its lazy conjecture

    no different from 'it would be even worse now IF FG/LAB had been in charge'

    hardly strong argument for voting for FF

    Nor was it meant to be . . I was merely following the conjecture initiated by another poster. .
    When there is an election to be fought I will be happy to put forward a strong argument for voting for FF . . without any lazy conjecture . . :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Its all the international community care about. Figures on the balance sheet. They dont care that he is actually an uninspiring leader, they dont care that he was the incompetent at the helm that steered ireland onto the rocks, they dont care about the social consequences of FFs actions or the perceived fairness amongst the population, all they care about is getting money back on their investments, and Cowen kowtowing to the banks is what they like to see. Did they comment on why we have the largest budget deficit or rising unemployment and emigration? did they comment on why our bank bailout was said to be the cheapest but is now the dearest in the world?

    Bash Cowen and his actions all you want but you fail to make any coherent point. The alternatives were little better.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    Bash Cowen and his actions all you want but you fail to make any coherent point. The alternatives were little better.

    Cowen does not make hard decisions. Every time he has been faced with a problem which requires a personal decison he has bottled it eg FAS and Molloy, Pat Neary. And of course, there is his refusal to deal with Ivor Callelly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't



    This is not poor journalism ! It is a valuable external perspective and one I have long argued exists.

    On this you are right and its always interesting to read an inherently neutral and non partisan view.

    But in this case they are simply wrong. We aren't being 'ungrategful' because of austerity measures that are needed. We are angry because of NAMA, Anglo and the naked corruption that pervades FF - they are closing hospitals to bail out their mates.

    Read this for why we aren't exactly grateful for Biffo's stewardship of the economy.

    http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/08/15/story51081.asp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Bash Cowen and his actions all you want but you fail to make any coherent point. The alternatives were little better.

    Well lets have an election and see if people have changed their minds on that one!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Essexboy wrote: »
    Cowen does not make hard decisions. Every time he has been faced with a problem which requires a personal decison he has bottled it eg FAS and Molloy, Pat Neary. And of course, there is his refusal to deal with Ivor Callelly.

    I was talking specifically about the economic crisis. Both Molloy and Neary are no longer in their respective positions. He cannot do anything about Callelly. The taoiseach doesn't have the power to sack members of the oireachtas, and rightly so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Well lets have an election and see if people have changed their minds on that one!

    You will get your election when we are due one at the end of its 5 year term. The government went to the people in 2007 and got its 5 year mandate.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,211 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You will get your election when we are due one at the end of its 5 year term. The government went to the people in 2007 and got its 5 year mandate.
    So what is their mandate?
    To pump billions of Euro that we don't have into failed banks? I don't recall that in the election manifestos.
    (and don't kid yourself that we will make it all back!)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 495 ✭✭ciaranmac


    Honestly this is like praising the captain of the Titanic for steering a lifeboat to shore afterwards. Not as if he has steered anything to harbour yet either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    That article is more than likely based on poor journalistic work. The author probably skimmed through a few articles on the crisis and saw key words such as 'Cowen, fiscal deficit, cutting public sector wages.' They probably didn't delve any further than that and are ignorant to the fact that the majority of the crisis is down to him and the Bert.
    For god's sake this is Newsweek; one of the two biggest news magazines in the world . .

    This is not poor journalism ! It is a valuable external perspective and one I have long argued exists.

    It is absolutely poor journalism. There is no mention of the fact that Cowen was the former finance minister. The equivalent would be if Cheney became president in 2008, and an Irish news magazine congratulated him because troops were now being pulled out of Iraq. There is also nothing about NAMA, Galway tents, or any of the other stink that hovers over Cowen, no matter what central bankers think of the new budget. Not to mention the fact that the budget cuts haven't kept Ireland's interest rates from shifting back towards Greece, rather than Germany.

    If we were to judge by size, then would Fox News be the most trustworthy cable network?

    Finally, for comparison's sake, the Wall Street Journal actually has a clear-eyed view on why economic policies have made the government so unpopular. You know you're ****ed when even the Journal thinks the banks have gone too far and the government not far enough...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Finally, for comparison's sake, the Wall Street Journal actually has a clear-eyed view on why economic policies have made the government so unpopular. You know you're ****ed when even the Journal thinks the banks have gone too far and the government not far enough...

    Quentin Fottrell is an Irish journalist, based in Ireland who writes a blog, on Irish matters for the WSJ . . Hardly an external international view . .


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,277 ✭✭✭evolutionqy7


    lol well thats a joke


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    kbannon wrote: »
    So what is their mandate?
    To pump billions of Euro that we don't have into failed banks? I don't recall that in the election manifestos.
    (and don't kid yourself that we will make it all back!)

    It's a bit unreasonable to expect a government to seek a mandate for decisions that can't have been foreseen at the time of election.

    I don't think Cowen deserves any such accoldade though. He bears a major part of the responsibility for getting us into this mess in the first place, and he hasn't been at all inspiring since he became taoiseach. However, I do think that Brian Lenihan has performed well under the circumstances, and that the decisions made by him over the past few years are the reason Cowen is being feted by Newsweek.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Quentin Fottrell is an Irish journalist, based in Ireland who writes a blog, on Irish matters for the WSJ . . Hardly an external international view . .

    It's an informed view, for a paper with a well-known market-oriented editorial bent. The Newsweek article showed a complete ignorance of Irish politics - they don't even have any staffers on the ground there.

    I noticed that David Cameron was at the top of the list. Cameron and Cowen are being given credit for making deep budget cuts and changes to public spending - despite the fact that the jury is still out on whether or not that is feasible given the fragile state of the global economy. Even the pro-market, small government Economist has labelled these actions as risky. But at least Cameron has the excuse that he is cleaning up after the last government - Cowen was IN the last government.

    Bottom line: the Newsweek article was a load of bollocks. Cowen deserves little credit for trying to fix a situation that he helped create in the first place. And any journalist with even a basic level of familiarity with Irish politics would NEVER have written such a stupid article.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    It's an informed view, for a paper with a well-known market-oriented editorial bent. The Newsweek article showed a complete ignorance of Irish politics - they don't even have any staffers on the ground there

    .

    Isn't that kinda the point ? I'm not arguing that this is a well-informed comprehensive analysis of Cowen's performance. Clearly it isn't and even a devout supporter of FF like myself wouldn't argue that it is . .

    But what it is (and I have seen lots of other similar examples on my travels) is an external perspective on what is happening in Ireland. . .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Clearly it isn't and even a devout supporter of FF like myself wouldn't argue that it is . .

    Why on earth would anyone choose to be a "devout supporter" of any political party? Surely the mature, responsible approach is to examine the policies and proposals of each party come elction time, assess their performance in government, and then make up your mind? I really don't understand how anyone can cling to that kind of old, civil war style politics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    kbannon wrote: »
    So what is their mandate?
    To pump billions of Euro that we don't have into failed banks? I don't recall that in the election manifestos.
    (and don't kid yourself that we will make it all back!)

    They got a mandate to govern as they see fit. If that means they choose to save the banks, which also happens to be in the national interest, then they are entitled to.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Einhard wrote: »
    Why on earth would anyone choose to be a "devout supporter" of any political party? Surely the mature, responsible approach is to examine the policies and proposals of each party come elction time, assess their performance in government, and then make up your mind? I really don't understand how anyone can cling to that kind of old, civil war style politics.

    Figure of speech . . . Devout does not equal long term (not in the way I am using it). . and it has very little to do with the Civil War . . . In the past I have been a member of YFG and my family background is more Labour than anything else . . .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭BehindTheScenes


    For god's sake this is Newsweek; one of the two biggest news magazines in the world . .

    This is not poor journalism ! It is a valuable external perspective and one I have long argued exists.

    We have become so caught up in blaming FF for everything; so unable to view our situation in the context of a global depression; so concerned about our own individual wellbeing and so uprepared to accept our own roles in creating 'the bubble' that we have lost all perspective.

    Just because you work at newsweek doesn't mean you are absolved from writing a poorly researched piece occasionaly. This article looks to be one of those poorly researched pieces.

    Pity the bond markets haven't caught on to the piece because from what I can see our spread is heading north.

    I personally like most people didn't create the bubble. I am merely a tax paying citizen who had his wages increase with the cost of living.

    We are certainly heading for a depression most other countries are in a recession and will stay in it for some time. The depression is due to FF otherwise we would have had a recession.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    Isn't that kinda the point ? I'm not arguing that this is a well-informed comprehensive analysis of Cowen's performance. Clearly it isn't and even a devout supporter of FF like myself wouldn't argue that it is . .

    But what it is (and I have seen lots of other similar examples on my travels) is an external perspective on what is happening in Ireland. . .

    No. You can have an "outside perspective" and actually be informed. For example, I generally like reading British coverage of American politics because it tends to be less hysterical than the American media, but is also informed enough to offer a cogent critique of the American system. Maybe if the Cowen article was written within the context of politicians seeking redemption...oh, wait, nevermind - redemption is something you seek when you actually admit you have ****ed up. Perhaps "Humpty Dumpty" would be a more accurate heading...

    I'm particularly outraged by Newsweek in part because I'm American, and this is the tripe that readers at home are being fed about the situation. I'm also pissed because I know the level of international coverage has shrunk significantly because of changes in newsroom budgets and an increased focus on 'entertainment' rather than hard news; subsequently there isn't anyone on staff to see if the international news even remotely passes the giggle test (unless it's a major bureau like Beijing, and even then a lot of the news is bad because many of the sources are secondhand).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    I was talking specifically about the economic crisis. Both Molloy and Neary are no longer in their respective positions. He cannot do anything about Callelly. The taoiseach doesn't have the power to sack members of the oireachtas, and rightly so.

    Molloy, whom he defended strongly at first, and Neary were paid off handsomely, not sacked, and FAS's squandering of public money continues unchecked.
    True, he cannot remove Callelly from the Seanad but he could remove him as Head of the Irish Delegation to the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, and his comments on the Senator's behaviour are feeble in the extreme.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    They got a mandate to govern as they see fit. If that means they choose to save the banks, which also happens to be in the national interest, then they are entitled to.

    They got a mandate in 2007, and the economic position of the country has deteriorated significantly since then. I have seen little from the government that indicates they are interested in the national interest, unless you equate the national interest with bank directors and developers, rather than the general public.

    That said, I don't blame FF for the fact that there have not been elections, I blame the electorate. Ireland isn't the US; parliamentary systems are designed so that a particularly unpopular government can fall before elections are due to be called. I wouldn't be a fan of Greek-style anarchy, but I'm amazed that the Irish haven't mobilized to force a political crisis and elections. FF and the Greens know that if elections were held tomorrow, there would be a bloodbath, so they are counting on the short memories of voters and praying for a recovery in the meanwhile.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 536 ✭✭✭HyperSkypeWiper


    I think what the article focuses on is the fact that if we had someone else in charge right now, the IMF might already have payed us a visit.

    Doesn't make him a good leader though, or the article any less ludicrous


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭ANXIOUS


    Hopefully he can start to get the recognition and admiration that he deserves. For a long time i thought he was going to the go the same way as other geniuses and for people not to appreciate them till they are gone.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Lets be honest, even the most staunch FF'er wouldnt call Cowen a good leader . .

    However, what this journal raises (rightly or wrongly) is a point that is missed on many in the NAMA debate. . International opinion of Ireland is not prejudiced based on our own hangups of how we got into this mess. .

    A big argument for NAMA that is usually rejected by populist theorists in Ireland, is that the perception of Ireland Internationally is paramount in keeping the costs down. . They seldom discuss what would of happened to our credibility (and credit rating) had we let the banks collapse, or the pandamonia it would of caused initially and possibly over a longer term.

    Like it or not, Bailing out the banks , slashing public service wages and having no civil unrest is a remarkable achievement (whether you like it or biatch/moan or not).

    While some people may say "well Cowen and his cronies dont fool us", you might ask yourself is it just the rest of the world thats stupid or maybe perhaps are many angry people of this country, understandably, just not capable of objectively debating FF's current tenure?

    Always makes me think of the villagers with pitchforks screaming "burn the witch", without properly understanding what exactly is happening or thinking it through. .

    burn-the-witch-burn-witch-kill-monty-python-demotivational-poster-1223816026.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭BehindTheScenes


    Drumpot wrote: »

    While some people may say "well Cowen and his cronies dont fool us", you might ask yourself is it just the rest of the world thats stupid or maybe you are just not capable of objectively debating FF's current tenure?

    Yeah I'll give you objectivity, 452,000 on the scratch and God knows how many people emigrating everyday.

    Objective enough for you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭The Raven.


    But despite awarding him the title of 'Fiscal Taskmaster', the magazine said: "…The Irish aren't showing much gratitude - Cowen's ratings have plunged to a mere 18%, and his Fianna Fáil party can expect a drubbing in the 2012 national elections."

    It is a gross insult to the people of Ireland to suggest that they should be grateful to the leader of the Fianna Fail Government for his imposition of selective, drastic austerity measures to remedy the destruction of the Irish economy caused by his party’s own incompetence and corruption.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 536 ✭✭✭HyperSkypeWiper


    The Raven. wrote: »
    It is a gross insult to the people of Ireland to suggest that they should be grateful to the leader of the Fianna Fail Government for his imposition of selective, drastic austerity measures to remedy the destruction of the Irish economy caused by his party’s own incompetence and corruption.

    ..they don't actually mean that. Its pretty safe to say that they're implying we are not to pleased :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭demonspawn


    At least the Brits know what's really going on....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Yeah I'll give you objectivity, 452,000 on the scratch and God knows how many people emigrating everyday.

    Objective enough for you?

    And high unemployment is limited to Ireland ? The rest of Europe and the U.S. are basking in the glory of our failure or basking in some sort of glory ? No wait, there is a world wide recession . . Mad that its effected us isnt it ?

    Yes it has affected us more then others because of the bubble, but the measures made since the bottom collapsed have somehow convinced the international community that we are not a basketcase like Greece and in a better position then Portugal and Spain . . Mightnt sound like much to some, but its a heck of alot better then what was thought of us just after the summer of 08!

    Then our government nationalised the banks, which other nations followed. . Then our government did what no other government had the stones to do, they slashed our expenses . . Irrespective of what people thought of why it had to be done, it was still considered an amazing achievement in a political society that usually dares not commit the cardinal sin of aggresively cutting at the expense of votes . . Sure enough GB followed suit and the rest of the world believes that Spain , Portugal and Greece HAVE to follow more on the lines of our government . .

    And the civil unrest thing is remarkable . . Some in Ireland think its a sign of our weakness, well the international community view it as a nation ready to work harder for less to get itself back on its feet. That should certainly encourage any multinationals to invest in a perceived hard working Irish workforce (certainly over the delusional spanish, portugeuse and greeks). .

    None of this takes away from how we got here, but like we will all attack FF when they fk up , they deserve some credit for maintaining our reputation abroad. . If people want to ignore this, then they do so at the potential cost of future success for the country. .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭BehindTheScenes


    demonspawn wrote: »
    At least the Brits know what's really going on....


    Funny but true.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Drumpot wrote: »
    While some people may say "well Cowen and his cronies dont fool us", you might ask yourself is it just the rest of the world thats stupid or maybe perhaps are many angry people of this country, understandably, just not capable of objectively debating FF's current tenure?

    Objectively :

    They relied on unsustainable property-related taxes
    They fuelled this boom (mostly because it suited them to cream off taxes from more expensive properties, with possibly a side bonus because they were well in with developers) and told those warning them they were pessimists and should commit suicide.
    They refused to intervene in the overheating, having appointed a 100% incompetent Financial "Regulator"
    They rushed into an ill-advised total bank guarantee
    They also signed us up to bail out the Anglo cesspit

    For all of the above, Cowen was first Minister for Finance and later Taoiseach.

    Those are - objectively - the facts. No anger or emotive language, just the facts, ma'am.


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