Is she selfish?

LegacyUser

I have a friend who is a single mother of a 7 year old girl. I'd say she's generally a good mother, but I am getting increasingly concerned by the fact that every time she goes out, she does drugs. Now before the pro-drug brigade starts, I am well aware that alcohol is a drug as well, but once you drink responsibly, the risks are fairly low and predictable (and this girl doesn't drink much) whereas with pills and so on you don't really know exactly what's going to happen. Both of us know someone who died suddenly through recreational drug use. To be honest, I find it very selfish of her to take drugs, OK the risk is small as she says, but I wouldn't be taking that risk if I had a young child. I understand she has the right to enjoy herself, but to me, her responsibility as a mother comes first. I don't think it's right to go home in all kinds of states - sure the child is in bed, but she could easily wake up, and what if there were an emergency? I've tried to explain this to my friend and she thinks I'm just being a bitch.

Kidchameleon

Yes she is selfish, definitely. Would she perhaps go on one of these parenting courses?I hear their good for getting to know your child's needs and also for looking at you own actions and how they effect your children...

King of Kings

no she is not. Your life doesn't end with having a kid and if she enjoys taking drugs so what?
Once she isn't on them around the kid then what is the harm? she is entitled to blow of steam and have fun like everybody else.

Taltos

OP - depending on how serious you deem this I recommend you either contacting her family or social services.

If this child is at risk then extreme measures need to be taken.
KoK - yes your life does not end - but it does by necessity change. And there are other ways to blow off steam than taking illegal substances.

Bananawoman

King of Kings wrote: »

no she is not. Your life doesn't end with having a kid and if she enjoys taking drugs so what?
Once she isn't on them around the kid then what is the harm? she is entitled to blow of steam and have fun like everybody else.

I totally disagree. She shouldnt stop travelling, eating out in restaurants, spending time with friends just because she has a child, but being a parent, I think you have a resposibility to drink in a sensible way, not do drugs and not have sex partners coming in and out of the house. Thats the kind of parent I want to be anyway. I guess the drug taking mums and dads explain some of the badly brought up kids that are everywhere.

Yes, I think she is selfish and irresponsible.

Moomoo1

never ever contact the S.S., being in care effectively means that that kid's life chances will be (statistically) ruined. S.S. should be contacted in the cases of severe abuse or neglect, but this isn't where they should be getting involved.

all depends on what sorts of drugs they are really.

LegacyUser

Well, it's not really the fact of being on them around the kid (although sometimes she goes home in a state), it's more the fact something might happen and leave the kid orphaned (the dad is alive but totally out of the picture). Sure, anything could happen anywhere but why take this totally unnecessary risk?

I wouldn't say the child was at risk, she doesn't leave her alone or anything like that and she is generally a good mother. I'm fairly sure she only does drugs when she goes out, not at home.

I agree with Bananawoman, there's plenty else to be doing than illegal substances. She has a delightful little girl, a good job, a nice house, I don't understand why she can't have fun in a more responsible way. She does have men coming back sometimes but as far as I know, it's when the child is with her granny.

I wouldn't call social services, I know the kid would be much worse off then. I just think my friend could be a much more responsible mother in this way. As for the drugs, it's usually pills (Ecstasy and other stuff), MDMA, coke, mushrooms, as far as I know.

Sanjuro

No offence, OP, but I think you should get off your high-horse. Your friend is having fun. It must be incredibly stressful to be raising a child on her own, and if she does a small amount of recreational drugs now and then, I don't really see the harm. I'm not saying it's the ideal situation. And I would think if your friend did drugs around the child, that would be a serious problem. But so would drinking around the child.

It's not your place to judge. And getting involved would be a serious breach of your friendship, and a really bad idea. If the child is ever in danger, absolutely, try and intervene. But if your friend is just having fun, it's not your place to judge her for how she does it.

sickofwaiting

Unregistered wrote: »

Now before the pro-drug brigade starts, I am well aware that alcohol is a drug as well, but once you drink responsibly, the risks are fairly low and predictable (and this girl doesn't drink much) whereas with pills and so on you don't really know exactly what's going to happen. Both of us know someone who died suddenly through recreational drug use. To be honest, I find it very selfish of her to take drugs, OK the risk is small as she says, but I wouldn't be taking that risk if I had a young child.

I know no-one that died from drug use. But I know two people who directly died from alcohol. One from alcohol poisoning and the other from choking on vomit. The first was in her early twenties, the second in his early thirties. And I know a few more that died from health issues due to alcohol consumption. The risks from alcohol are not 'fairly low' compared to other drugs. Alcohol has caused far far more damage than recreational drugs such as pills or hash ever have. And I am not just talking about in general, as alcohol is far more prevalent than the others, Im talking about per capita. It is a drug that causes aggression and loss of co-ordination and loss of inhabition. Is it any wonder that A&E's up and down the country are full of people every Friday and Saturday night, locked drunk who have injured/poisoned themselves or who have taken a beating off some other person that was locked drunk.

You should get down off your high horse OP. There is nothing wrong with your friend taking some recreational drugs if she feels like it. It is most certainly no worse than her having a few drinks. You are a pure hypocrite, saying you don't mind her drinking alcohol but having a problem with her doing a few recreational drugs. Just like all the other hypocrites in this counrty who look down on recreational drug users while they themselves go out and get locked off their faces every weekend. And btw, I don't take drugs as they don't do it for me but I do love a few pints. I just hate hypocrites who give out about drugs when they are actually big drugs users themselves in the form of alchohol.

LegacyUser

sickofwaiting wrote: »

I know no-one that died from drug use. But I know two people who directly died from alcohol. One from alcohol poisoning and the other from choking on vomit. The first was in her early twenties, the second in his early thirties. And I know a few more that died from health issues due to alcohol consumption. The risks from alcohol are not 'fairly low' compared to other drugs. Alcohol has caused far far more damage than recreational drugs such as pills or hash ever have. And I am not just talking about in general, as alcohol is far more prevalent than the others, Im talking about per capita. It is a drug that causes aggression and loss of co-ordination and loss of inhabition. Is it any wonder that A&E's up and down the country are full of people every Friday and Saturday night, locked drunk who have injured/poisoned themselves or who have taken a beating off some other person that was locked drunk.

Excuse me, I already said that we have two friends who died from drug use and I know no-one who died from alcohol. If you had bothered to read my post, you'd have seen that I said that alcohol generally only causes problems when you overdo it. How many people do you know who dropped dead from 2 or 3 glasses of wine? I know two healthy people who dropped dead after doing drugs. Whether alcohol is generally more dangerous or not is irrelevant to this situation. If my friend were passing out drunk every weekend I'd have exactly the same view. It's not that I think 'drug are bad', it's that I think it's bad to do them when you have serious responsibilities. No way on earth would I do pills if I had a child.

You should get down off your high horse OP. There is nothing wrong with your friend taking some recreational drugs if she feels like it. It is most certainly no worse than her having a few drinks. You are a pure hypocrite, saying you don't mind her drinking alcohol but having a problem with her doing a few recreational drugs. Just like all the other hypocrites in this counrty who look down on recreational drug users while they themselves go out and get locked off their faces every weekend. And btw, I don't take drugs as they don't do it for me but I do love a few pints. I just hate hypocrites who give out about drugs when they are actually big drugs users themselves in the form of alchohol.

Stop hijacking the thread with your agenda. I'm not a hypocrite for the reasons stated above. I personally hardly ever drink, I might have one glass of wine with dinner or a beer in a pub the odd time. My friend wouldn't have more than a few drinks at a time, so neither of us are getting 'locked'. So there goes your 'theory'. I would have the same feelings if my friend were driving drunk or doing anything else totally unnecessary and irresponsible.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I think 'having fun' at any expense goes out of the window when you have a child. You can't expect to live the life you led before.

Sanjuro

Unregistered wrote: »

Stop hijacking the thread with your agenda. I'm not a hypocrite for the reasons stated above. I personally hardly ever drink, I might have one glass of wine with dinner or a beer in a pub the odd time. My friend wouldn't have more than a few drinks at a time, so neither of us are getting 'locked'. So there goes your 'theory'. I would have the same feelings if my friend were driving drunk or doing anything else totally unnecessary and irresponsible.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I think 'having fun' at any expense goes out of the window when you have a child. You can't expect to live the life you led before.

Uh, okay. If you see a reply that disagrees with you as somebody pushing an agenda, that's up to you. But that's not what I was doing. I have no agenda. But if you post in a public forum, you're going to get replies that disagree with you. And it's not theory. Nor is it fact. It's opinion.

sickofwaiting

Unregistered wrote: »

Excuse me, I already said that we have two friends who died from drug use and I know no-one who died from alcohol. If you had bothered to read my post, you'd have seen that I said that alcohol generally only causes problems when you overdo it. How many people do you know who dropped dead from 2 or 3 glasses of wine? I know two healthy people who dropped dead after doing drugs.

It same with drugs, you don't just drop dead from smoking a few joints or taking some pills.

Whether alcohol is generally more dangerous or not is irrelevant to this situation. If my friend were passing out drunk every weekend I'd have exactly the same view. It's not that I think 'drug are bad', it's that I think it's bad to do them when you have serious responsibilities. No way on earth would I do pills if I had a child.

Unless she is going overboard with drugs I fail to see the problem. It's the same as alcohol, another drug, they are fine in moderation, but it's a bad idea to overdo them.

Stop hijacking the thread with your agenda. I'm not a hypocrite for the reasons stated above. I personally hardly ever drink, I might have one glass of wine with dinner or a beer in a pub the odd time. My friend wouldn't have more than a few drinks at a time, so neither of us are getting 'locked'. So there goes your 'theory'. I would have the same feelings if my friend were driving drunk or doing anything else totally unnecessary and irresponsible.

Drink driving, I had forgotten about that. That makes it 4 people I have know who died directly due to alcohol as I also know people who died in drink driving accidents.

Basically doing a few drugs in moderation is no more harm than drinking alcohol in moderation. If she is going overboard with them she has a problem, just as if she was going overboard with the drink. But I also think it is nobodies business what lifestyle choices their friends make. No-one wants another person imposing their moral conscience on them. No-one likes to get nagged, I can imagine it must be a right pain in the hole for her to listen to nagging from you as if you were her mother. Live your own life and stop getting overly concerned with issues that are not your own.

LegacyUser

Sanjuro, this is not a thread about whether drugs or alcohol are more dangerous. I addressed in my first post that alcohol isn't an issue here. Your reasoning is crazy - just because drugs are statistically less dangerous than alcohol, it makes them safe? I don't see how people jumping to conclusions about how much I drink, or my friend drinks, is relevant to anything.

sickofwaiting wrote: »

It same with drugs, you don't just drop dead from smoking a few joints or taking some pills.

Oh really? You might want to get in contact with the families of my two friends who died after taking a few pills and tell them that.

Unless she is going overboard with drugs I fail to see the problem. It's the same as alcohol, another drug, they are fine in moderation, but it's a bad idea to overdo them.

But that's not true. Did you not pay attention to anything I said here? Drugs ARE risky. Apart from the friends who died, we know others who are seriously messed up, having paranoid delusions etc, and they weren't using them any more often than my friend.

Drink driving, I had forgotten about that. That makes it 4 people I have know who died directly due to alcohol as I also know people who died in drink driving accidents.

So? How is this relevant in any way?

Basically doing a few drugs in moderation is no more harm than drinking alcohol in moderation. If she is going overboard with them she has a problem, just as if she was going overboard with the drink. But I also think it is nobodies business what lifestyle choices their friends make. No-one wants another person imposing their moral conscience on them. No-one likes to get nagged, I can imagine it must be a right pain in the hole for her to listen to nagging from you as if you were her mother. Live your own life and stop getting overly concerned with issues that are not your own.

I wouldn't give a crap if it was just HER life. But it's not. She has a small child and I find her behaviour very selfish. I'm not saying she has to stop having fun, but I find it depressing that these days so many people seem to be all about me, me, me, the rush they can feel for a few hours, without thinking about their responsibilities.

The Recliner

The rights or wrongs of Drugs be they pharmacuticals or Alcohol are not relevant to this thread, you could replace one with the other and the OP's dilema would be the same, take that debate to another forum

Continuing that debate will result in bannings for being off topic

Please keep replies relevant to the OP and don't focus on what specifically the friend is doing

Kassiopeia

For goodness sake, being concerned for a childs welfare does not equal judgemental pokey nosey bit*ch!

Everyone who comes into contact with children are responsable for their welfare in my opinion. Obviously I mean if you see a child being mistreated in any way you then have a responsibility to either help or report it to those who can help. Parents do not have an automatic right to parenthood(I mean the baby P case for example). The chruch abuse system shows how wrong things can go when we dont respect childrens rights.

This is not a stranger who she has no actual knowledge of, its her friend so she knows whats going on as fact. Imagine if she did nothing and some harm came to the child through her drug use. What happens if something serious happens to the child while she's out, and she turns up to the hospital off her face. Thats when social services could get involved in a more serious way.

I'm not saying the drug taking in necessarily wrong, but I certainly dont think your concern is wrong. If you know her family/friends and shes close enough to them maybe talk to them about it. I know talking to her so far hasnt worked. Maybe try asking how she's coping (leading on to why she feels the need to take drugs to let loose). Offer her support in the form of babysitting or assistance to get a break, but not so she can go out and take drugs.

dearg lady

I don't see how she's being selfish, as far as you know she only takes drugs when she's out and would only bring a man back if her child was elsewhere. I'm sorry but I fail to see the problem.

sickofwaiting

OK done talking about drink v drug issue.

Unregistered wrote: »

I wouldn't give a crap if it was just HER life. But it's not. She has a small child and I find her behaviour very selfish. I'm not saying she has to stop having fun, but I find it depressing that these days so many people seem to be all about me, me, me, the rush they can feel for a few hours, without thinking about their responsibilities.

Look around you, the whole world is unfair. Im sure you often have seen homeless or begging children or children who are obviously being neglected, do you go getting involved there too? Why not? These are kids that would benefit alot more from your help than your friend's kid who seems to have a fine setup. You don't get involved because it would be way too much hassle whereas with your friend it is handy and takes no effort to criticize the way she raises her child and make you feel like you are a good person.

Your friends family life is HER business. Unless she is beating the child, it is absolutely none of your business. Talk about sticking your nose in where it's not wanted, you have some neck to be nagging her about how she 'should' be living her life (in your opinion). If/when you have your own children you can then decide what kind of family life you will have and it will be your own business and you will not appreciate anybody sticking their nose into it.

sickofwaiting

sickofwaiting wrote: »

OK done talking about drink v drug issue.



Look around you, the whole world is unfair. Im sure you often have seen homeless or begging children or children who are obviously being neglected, do you go getting involved there too? Why not? These are kids that would benefit alot more from your help than your friend's kid who seems to have a fine setup. You don't get involved because it would be way too much hassle whereas with your friend it is handy and takes no effort to criticize the way she raises her child and make you feel like you are a good person.

What a joke. Just because something could be worse doesn't mean the situation at hand isn't a problem. Funny that you're accusing OP of judging her friend, because you're doing an awful lot of judging and assuming about her. Going out and doing drugs (or getting locked on alcohol, for the pedants) is FAR from ideal when you are the single parent of a young child. Aside from the health implications of the woman involved, what if the child needed her in the night after she came home? What if there were an emergency and she got called back from her night out? What if the child ate one of her pills thinking it was a sweet? Yes, I do know someone this happened to and the child was seriously ill. What if the girl developed an addiction? How healthy is it for a child to see their mother under the influence of illegal substances? There are plenty of issues there which could cause someone concern when a small child is involved. OP knows this child, so it's much more her business than a kid s/he sees on the street.

sickofwaiting

Clementine Tall Warehouse wrote: »

what if the child needed her in the night after she came home?

Newflash, peoples lives dont stop when they have children. People still go out and enjoy themselves. And unless she has overdosed on heroine I fail to see how she wouldn't be able to help her child at night. I don't really see what help a kid of 7 is going to need in the middle of the night tho.

What if there were an emergency and she got called back from her night out?

What's the problem there? If there's an emergency obviously she'd go home. Just like any mother who is out for a few drinks with friends would go home if she got a call about and emergency.

What if the child ate one of her pills thinking it was a sweet?

It is irresponsible to leave drink/drugs/harmful materials in reach of a child. She should obviously be making sure she doesn't leave anything like that in reach of her child but that is not a reason why she herself can't use drink/drugs/harmful materials.

Yes, I do know someone this happened to and the child was seriously ill.

Like I said harmful materials shouldn't be left in reach of children. There have been plenty of kids who have drank bleach/cleaning agents/methelayted spririts/etc..even vodka.... and done serious damage to themselves. Substances like that should be kept out of reach of children.

What if the girl developed an addiction? How healthy is it for a child to see their mother under the influence of illegal substances? There are plenty of issues there which could cause someone concern when a small child is involved.

The OP mentioned nothing about addiction so I presume that isn't an issue. If she is a regular recreational drug take and it sounds that way from the OP if she was gonna become seriously addicted it would have happened long ago, so obviously that isn't an issue. Just like someone doesn't just wake up and become an alcoholic, if you are going to be a substance abuser it will be apparent from the start.

OP knows this child, so it's much more her business than a kid s/he sees on the street.

It's not her business. It's none of her business how her brothers/sisters/aunts/uncles/neighbours/workmates/friends raise their children. Unless they are actually abusing/assaulting them, then she should call the gards/social services, otherwise the ins and outs of peoples family lives are nothing to do with people outside the family. I do not understand the logic of OP or yourself who are saying its your business how someone else runs their family life. It is completely none of your business and you would not appreciate anyone telling you how to raise your children.

And the OP was harping on about how she find it depressing that people are all me, me, me these days - obviously she thinks she herself is not. So if she really is selfless and concerned for children in need she should go out there and help children who would actually really need it, than taking the handy option and criticising her friend whose sole fault is she takes some recreational drugs. If that is the only issue, if you could even call it that, that this child has with her mother she is actually pretty fortunate as there are a decent % of children all over the country getting beaten and treated like crap by their parents on a daily basis.

sickofwaiting

sickofwaiting wrote: »

Newflash, peoples lives dont stop when they have children. People still go out and enjoy themselves. And unless she has overdosed on heroine I fail to see how she wouldn't be able to help her child at night. I don't really see what help a kid of 7 is going to need in the middle of the night tho.

Are you serious? No, people's lives don't stop, but unless they're very selfish, they generally do change considerably. Just why exactly some people think it's their God given right to go out and party all the time is beyond me. I don't think someone who has done pills/coke/mushrooms is exactly in the best position to attend to a child, do you? And it's not at all uncommon for a 7 year old to need her mother/carer in the middle of the night. When I was a nanny I was often woken up by the child if she was after having a bad dream, or she'd heard something in the house.

What's the problem there? If there's an emergency obviously she'd go home. Just like any mother who is out for a few drinks with friends would go home if she got a call about and emergency.

You think being on pills is the same as being a bit tipsy?

The OP mentioned nothing about addiction so I presume that isn't an issue. If she is a regular recreational drug take and it sounds that way from the OP if she was gonna become seriously addicted it would have happened long ago, so obviously that isn't an issue. Just like someone doesn't just wake up and become an alcoholic, if you are going to be a substance abuser it will be apparent from the start.

Well, that's totally contradictory. Like you said, people can drink socially for years before becoming alcoholics, so why would it be 'apparent from the start'? I know quite a few people who dabbled in drugs for ages and ended up becoming full blown addicts. I don't know if that's the case here but it's certainly possible, especially with cocaine.

It's not her business. It's none of her business how her brothers/sisters/aunts/uncles/neighbours/workmates/friends raise their children. Unless they are actually abusing/assaulting them, then she should call the gards/social services, otherwise the ins and outs of peoples family lives are nothing to do with people outside the family. I do not understand the logic of OP or yourself who are saying its your business how someone else runs their family life. It is completely none of your business and you would not appreciate anyone telling you how to raise your children.

She's not calling social services. She's asking if it's selfish. And I think it is, yes. At the very least.

And the OP was harping on about how she find it depressing that people are all me, me, me these days - obviously she thinks she herself is not. So if she really is selfless and concerned for children in need she should go out there and help children who would actually really need it, than taking the handy option and criticising her friend whose sole fault is she takes some recreational drugs. If that is the only issue, if you could even call it that, that this child has with her mother she is actually pretty fortunate as there are a decent % of children all over the country getting beaten and treated like crap by their parents on a daily basis.

Why would she? She doesn't know those children. She knows this one. Again, stating that 'other kids have it worse' is ridiculous. Of course some kids have it worse and I'm sure plenty have it better. As if this child should be grateful that all her mother does is come home off her t*ts regularly instead of beating her. My God. The OP must be somewhat concerned if she bothered to post about it.

LegacyUser

I simply cannot believe the things people have wrote in their replies!

You simply cannot be of healthy mind when taking illegal substances. And after all the drugs the op has named that this mother is taking is gibsmacking. These drugs cause psychological problems over long term including paranoia, depression, anxiety.. Even schizophrenia did you know. If I were a child I'm pretty damn sure I wouldn't want my parent being in that state of mind while caring for me. And to know that their parent is out there acting like a fool is upsetting

Social services are there to help, when people start to realise that maybe children And their parents might get the help/care they need.