Wheel clampers face private land ban (UK)

ArphaRima

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-10993473
Wheel clampers face private land ban.

This is GOOD news.

Anan1

How are landowners supposed to regulate how people park on their property?

Guy:Incognito

Can't see why it's good news. If I have land I should be free to set the rules I want for people to use it. If they don't want to use my land under my rulesthey don't have to.

If you can't clamp them what can you do ? Ask them nicely to please stop being inconsiderate dungs while on someone elses property? It may come as a surprise but most people are inconsiderate pricks because they choose to be, not because someone hasn't given them a huge and shown them how to be nice.

ArphaRima

How are landowners supposed to regulate how people park on their property?

I havent figured that out yet! I assume that it will have to be more obvious like barrier controlled parking etc. But what I do like is anything that hurts the clamping companies..

I wouldve thought that stringent government oversight wouldve been enough. Looks like NCPS might not have another bumper year. This please me greatly.

Anan1

fluffer wrote: »

I havent figured that out yet! I assume that it will have to be more obvious like barrier controlled parking etc. But what I do like is anything that hurts the clamping companies..

What's needed is regulation, not a ban on clamping. The only people who will benefit from the abolition of clamping are those who park illegally - ie the people who inconvenience the rest of us.

ArphaRima

I actually agree with you. As much as I DESPISE clampers I do see their role in preventing general mayhem.

I would like to see this move by the UK cause the Irish clampers to self-regulate.
Whether they do or not I want to see tough legislation brought in to regulate them from a national level. A comprehensive appeal process that doesnt require a lengthy court battle would be nice. Something akin to the small claims court except with the power to place strict penalties on these companies.

CyberGhost

Anan1 wrote: »

How are landowners supposed to regulate how people park on their property?

With a shotgun.

Adam Selene

Anan1 wrote: »

How are landowners supposed to regulate how people park on their property?

Using the legal system, rather than intimidation and extortion.

Guy:Incognito

Adam Selene wrote: »

Using the legal system, rather than intimidation and extortion.

What part of the legal system could they use to prevent short term parkers taking the piss on their land?

smiddyboy

This sort of ban has been in place in Scotland since 1991 and as far as i can tell there doesn't seem to be much 'chaos' or 'taking the piss' going on. The usual threat of parking tickets seem to do the trick.

Davidth88

Actually this is great news , I think it's already in force in Scotland.

If you have private land and you and only certain people to park put up barriers .

I dislike pay/display ( never have change , meter is always miles away etc )

Clamping is a form of extortion if you ask me , akin to kidnapping your car and demanding money for the release of it.

There is a problem with regulation , for example size/position of signs etc, however if the signs are illegal that won't help you get your car released by two burly guys demanding money.

I have personally seen a woman who was parked in a private area ( not causing obstruction , or taking up the last space(s) being clamped while she sat in her car breast feeding her child. The police were called because basically an angry mob was going to kick the living daylights out of the clampers

-Chris-

smiddyboy wrote: »

This sort of ban has been in place in Scotland since 1991 and as far as i can tell there doesn't seem to be much 'chaos' or 'taking the piss' going on. The usual threat of parking tickets seem to do the trick.

I heard a guy (from the NCPS I think) on the radio yesterday.

He said that it wasn't legal for them to issue tickets here, so clamping is their only method of enforcing parking regulations. In Scotland they're allowed to issue tickets and so they don't actually need to clamp.

He said his preference was to issue tickets rather than clamp, but Irish law won't let him.

deadduck

ticketing is a way better method of parking enforcement, don't know why we ever let clamping cowboys operate in this country at all

Anan1

deadduck wrote: »

ticketing is a way better method of parking enforcement, don't know why we ever let clamping cowboys operate in this country at all

How would ticketing work here? AFAIK Gardaí/wardens can't issue tickets to cars parked in private car parks, and private companies can't enforce collection for issued tickets.

Guy:Incognito

deadduck wrote: »

ticketing is a way better method of parking enforcement, don't know why we ever let clamping cowboys operate in this country at all

How many people will pay the a parkign ticket issued by a private company?

And what makes it any different to being clamped (other than the bit of time inconvenience) if your willing to pay a ticket anyay?

deadduck

Anan1 wrote: »

How would ticketing work here? AFAIK Gardaí/wardens can't issue tickets to cars parked in private car parks, and private companies can't enforce collection for issued tickets.

it'd require a law change, but so what. seems the scots have been working it this way for years no probs

Stekelly wrote: »

How many people will pay the a parkign ticket issued by a private company?

And what makes it any different to being clamped (other than the bit of time inconvenience) if your willing to pay a ticket anyay?

a fine is punishment enough, having to sit and wait an hour to have it removed is salt in the wound. and why wouldn't people pay the fine? people pay penalties everyday for various things. if you don't pay, you'll end up in court, that's hardly what people want...

Anan1

deadduck wrote: »

it'd require a law change, but so what. seems the scots have been working it this way for years no probs

Would you want the law changed to allow enforcable private ticketing, State ticketing, or both?

deadduck

Anan1 wrote: »

Would you want the law changed to allow enforcable private ticketing, State ticketing, or both?

i'd support whatever changes would be reqd. to emulate the scottish system, seems tried and trusted

Anan1

deadduck wrote: »

i'd support whatever changes would be reqd. to emulate the scottish system, seems tried and trusted

What exactly is the Scottish system?

Gregor Samsa

Davidth88 wrote: »

If you have private land and you and only certain people to park put up barriers .

Why should land owners go to the expense of erecting and maintaining barriers just to stop people illegally parking on their land? Should you be required to put a barrier on your driveway just to stop people parking on it?

Davidth88 wrote: »

I dislike pay/display (never have change , meter is always miles away etc ).

Your inability to plan ahead is completely irrelevant.

Davidth88 wrote: »

Clamping is a form of extortion if you ask me, akin to kidnapping your car and demanding money for the release of it.

In fairness, you're omitting the important fact that if you've been clamped, you probably shouldn't be parked there in first place. Of course we can all cite exceptions and situations where some leeway and common sense should be shown, but calling it "extortion" is a little bit hysterical.

All that said, I would welcome the abolition of private, unregulated clamping and the introduction of a (legal, regulated) ticketing system that has an appeals process. The fact that private clampers only take cash, usually don't issue receipts and often take their sweet time to come and release you unfairly add to the appropriate deterrent/punishment, which is the release fee.

Anan1

phutyle wrote: »

All that said, I would welcome the abolition of private, unregulated clamping and the introduction of a (legal, regulated) ticketing system that has an appeals process.

Clamping seems to have worked far better than ticketing as a deterrent on public roads - might regulated council clamping be a better solution?

deadduck

Anan1 wrote: »

What exactly is the Scottish system?

i'm not sure of the legal system over there, but it's one that works. is there any reason you know of why it couldn't be implemented here?

Anan1

deadduck wrote: »

i'm not sure of the legal system over there, but it's one that works. is there any reason you know of why it couldn't be implemented here?

I don't know what the Scottish system is either. How do you know that it works well?

Cookie_Monster

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't know what the Scottish system is either. How do you know that it works well?

because the Daily Mail doesn't have sensationalist daily articles about how the lack of clamping is killing children and the like

I.S.T.

Anan1 wrote: »

How are landowners supposed to regulate how people park on their property?

It's tough luck, the clamping companies were given enough time to get their house in order, they didn't, now it's game over. If landowners were not employing the cowboy clampers this would not have happened.

Landowners will now have to install barriers or use some other method to stop unauthorised people from parking on their land.

Anan1 wrote: »

What's needed is regulation, not a ban on clamping. The only people who will benefit from the abolition of clamping are those who park illegally - ie the people who inconvenience the rest of us.

They already had regulation, it didn't work. Very few clamping companies were prosecuted. The police didn't want/have time to persue them.

deadduck

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't know what the Scottish system is either. How do you know that it works well?

to be honest i don't, but i read bbc everyday, and parking doesn't seem to be an issue over there. raises it's head here quite a bit, and it tends to be the same old story, about how vulture like clampers are. they cause more trouble than they prevent, through their unscrupulous methods.

as a victim myself of an unwarranted clamping, maybe i'm a wee bit bitter, but if clamping is to become acceptable here, it will have to be strictly regulated, as opposed to the sham of a clamping system we have now.

Anan1

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

It's tough luck, the clamping companies were given enough time to get their house in order, they didn't, now it's game over. If landowners were not employing the cowboy clampers this would not have happened.

Don't you think this 'cowboy clampers' thing is a little overdone? I've been parking in private car parks since I started driving, and i've never been clamped.

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Landowners will now have to install barriers or use some other method to stop unauthorised people from parking on their land.

And who do you think will ultimately pay for that?

deadduck

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

It's tough luck, the clamping companies were given enough time to get their house in order, they didn't, now it's game over. If landowners were not employing the cowboy clampers this would not have happened.

+1

markpb

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

It's tough luck, the clamping companies were given enough time to get their house in order, they didn't, now it's game over. If landowners were not employing the cowboy clampers this would not have happened..

Dodgy parkers have had time to get their house in order and they didn't, perhaps it should be game over for them?

Davidth88

phutyle wrote: »

Why should land owners go to the expense of erecting and maintaining barriers just to stop people illegally parking on their land? Should you be required to put a barrier on your driveway just to stop people parking on it?

I think by and large private clamping is done in car parks and places like that , and that's what I am talking about

Now you may not be wrongly parked , so much as ' overstayed ' which is quite a bit different ( haven't we all lost track of time occasionally ).

It is extortion , the amounts charged which are penal and the implied threat.

You are right , my lack of planning is not really relevant

deadduck

Anan1 wrote: »

Don't you think this 'cowboy clampers' thing is a little overdone? I've been parking in private car parks since I started driving, and i've never been clamped.

i certainly don't. i was clamped one weekend in my apartment parking area, sticker on windshield, absolutely no excuse for them to clamp except one of their lackies decided he need one more clamp to fill his quota. took over an hour to get it removed, and as a result i was late for work. god i hate clampers!

Anan1

deadduck wrote: »

i certainly don't. i was clamped one weekend in my apartment parking area, sticker on windshield, absolutely no excuse for them to clamp except one of their lackies decided he need one more clamp to fill his quota. took over an hour to get it removed, and as a result i was late for work. god i hate clampers!

That much i've gathered.;) Are we all agreed that we need a system that punishes those who park illegally on private property but is not open to abuse?

deadduck

Anan1 wrote: »

That much i've gathered.;) Are we all agreed that we need a system that punishes those who park illegally on private property but is not open to abuse?

wouldn't argue with that

I.S.T.

Anan1 wrote: »

Don't you think this 'cowboy clampers' thing is a little overdone? I've been parking in private car parks since I started driving, and i've never been clamped.

Sorry, I was referring to the clampers in the UK who are definitely cowboys, legalised criminals. I don't think the ones in Ireland are anywhere near as bad

Anan1 wrote: »

And who do you think will ultimately pay for that?

The landowners.

Anan1

deadduck wrote: »

wouldn't argue with that

I think proper State regulation is needed so, not some kind of private self-regulation. How about having a national, State-run, appeals board covering both private & local authority clamping?

Anan1

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

The landowners.

Do you honestly believe that the landowners won't recoup the cost of barriers & ticket machines from us?

Stark

Another victim of unwarranted clamping here and still €90 down thanks to their "apply here for a PFO" appeals procedure. Can't wait till the day it's illegal for these crooks to extort money from people on this side of the Irish Sea as well.

ArphaRima

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-10996451
A man sat in his car for 30 hours to prevent it being towed away after it was clamped.


--He sat in the vehicle, all four wheels were clamped and about 40 tickets were stuck to its window, amounting to £3,565 in fines.
--He added: "The number of tickets I counted was approximately 40 so if you imagine each ticket costs £80 and it goes up every half-an-hour."