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Did Fianna Fail get anything right?

  • 15-08-2010 03:49PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭


    Personally I find it hard to come up with any feasible answers to this question. With all the entirely justified anti-fianna fail sentiment going around, does anyone give them kudos for anything they have done?

    For my part, I suppose getting the LUAS organized comes to mind. For all the wastage and stupidity that went on during the boom, at the very least that is something that still runs as it should.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    The LUAS went wildly overbudget and overtime and the lines didn't even meet! Ask the traders of central Dublin how they feel about the LUAS programme.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    McCreevey was right to cut income tax rates between bugets 98 to budget 2000.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭Tau


    I think the smoking ban is pretty awesome.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    Nama.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,547 ✭✭✭Foxhound38


    Tau wrote: »
    I think the smoking ban is pretty awesome.

    Yeah, that did turn out to be on the button - but was it not the PDs who pushed that, along with their much more hare-brained idea of transforming Ireland into a "cafe bar" style culture?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    Did they introduce the plastic bag levy?


    Thats all I can think of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Some would say that they played an excellent role in the peace process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭skelliser


    Foxhound38 wrote: »
    but was it not the PDs who pushed that, along with their much more hare-brained idea of transforming Ireland into a "cafe bar" style culture?

    Actually that was quite a good idea. Would have been a great alternative to the usual pub drinking madness we have every weekend. Imagine an alternative to the pub! May have even made us drink less!

    Unfortunately the vintners didn't think so and lobbied their FF buddies to scrape the idea.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭paky


    Foxhound38 wrote: »
    Personally I find it hard to come up with any feasible answers to this question. With all the entirely justified anti-fianna fail sentiment going around, does anyone give them kudos for anything they have done?

    For my part, I suppose getting the LUAS organized comes to mind. For all the wastage and stupidity that went on during the boom, at the very least that is something that still runs as it should.

    everything wright they did was completely undone by all the wrong they did. the extent of the corruption will never be known


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 156 ✭✭Tau


    paky wrote: »
    everything wright they did was completely undone by all the wrong they did. the extent of the corruption will never be known

    Could you explain your point? How was the smoking ban "undone"?


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,734 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The amount of money they're putting into scientific research. Ireland is now ranked number 3 in Immunological research in the world. Then again, it's just going to leave us with too many graduates and not enough jobs for them.
    Source

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Smoking ban
    Plastic ban levy which was shamelessly stolen from the Greens.

    This is more of a civil service achievement but hey, I suppose it happened under a ministers watch
    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
    The digitization (if that's the correct term?) and availability of census records.
    I think this is a fantastic achievement and will help all manner of research for Irish people, professional authors and our diaspora abroad.

    ROS, Revenue on line is a good system.
    Tbh, if most government departments were half as efficent as Revenue we'd see improvements


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    The amount of money they're putting into scientific research. Ireland is now ranked number 3 in Immunological research in the world. Then again, it's just going to leave us with too many graduates and not enough jobs for them.
    Source

    Thats ok, sure all them graduates will emigrate, leaving the oiks to vote FF.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Foxhound38 wrote: »
    Yeah, that did turn out to be on the button - but was it not the PDs who pushed that, along with their much more hare-brained idea of transforming Ireland into a "cafe bar" style culture?

    Like skelliser I think this was a good idea. Defeated by the Vitners lobby
    paky wrote: »
    everything wright they did was completely undone by all the wrong they did. the extent of the corruption will never be known
    Thats ok, sure all them graduates will emigrate, leaving the oiks to vote FF.

    True, but is this the thread for this?
    Answer the OP :)
    Is this thread going to descend into a negative thread like every other one?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭Het-Field


    The 1997-2002 FF/PD Government would certainly have won my vote.

    Within that period they passed the Good Friday Agreement, Passed Amsterdam Treaty, abolished the death penalty, and encouraged the ratification of the ICC.

    They also managed to continue the rapid increase in employment during that period. Although, I would credit the Progressive Democrats heavily for that achievement.

    Economically, we had a fairly easy ride, and we weathered the Dot-com bubble crash fairly well. We enjoyed extensive, and sustainable economic growth at this point. The Government of 1997-2001 were fiscally conservative at that point, and only one budget could have been defined as a "give-away budget" (December 2001). At that point we were in a position to have such a budget, and given that it was in the months leading up to a General Election, it was not suprising.

    Im alright with the plastic bag levy. It has certainly encouraged the use of re-usable carrier bags, and like any commodity, the plastic bag can be purchased if somebody wishes to pay for a plastic bag.

    The Smoking ban was a bit too much of the Nanny State for my liking. However, I can see the benefits which it bestows on smokers and non smokers alike. It was a generally beneficial move, even if it has coerced the owners of private premisis to act in a certain way, in a place which the state should have little or no influence.

    I believe some advances have been made in the Health system. Particularly the fact that the Government came to the realisation that "Universal Free Health Care" is not sustainable or desirable. This model of thinking became particularly prevalent during the 1997-2007 period of Governance.

    I think the FF led Governments did achieve in some areas. However, most of this achievement has been washed away by incompetence between 2004-2008. Some of it will be enduring, such as their role in the Peace Process. However, they have spoiled the economic legacy which they could have forged for themselves if they had continued down the path which they took between 1997-2003.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    Smoking ban was probably the best decision I can think of ,can't really think of anything else.
    The whole world was going through a boom ,so it was only natural we seen growth in ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Smoking ban & plastic bag levy; that's about it.

    Credit where credit's due on those, however if you were to weigh those up against the downsides they came at far, far too high a cost.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Wide Road


    Liam Byrne wrote: »
    Smoking ban & plastic bag levy; that's about it.

    Credit where credit's due on those, however if you were to weigh those up against the downsides they came at far, far too high a cost.

    It's hard to argue that FF I'm govt helped to save lives thanks to The Good Friday Agreement.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Peace settlement in Northern Ireland.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭kev9100


    They handled Northern Ireland pretty good, but thats about it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Het-Field wrote: »
    The 1997-2002 FF/PD Government would certainly have won my vote.

    Within that period they passed the Good Friday Agreement, Passed Amsterdam Treaty, abolished the death penalty, and encouraged the ratification of the ICC.

    They also managed to continue the rapid increase in employment during that period. Although, I would credit the Progressive Democrats heavily for that achievement.

    Economically, we had a fairly easy ride, and we weathered the Dot-com bubble crash fairly well. We enjoyed extensive, and sustainable economic growth at this point. The Government of 1997-2001 were fiscally conservative at that point, and only one budget could have been defined as a "give-away budget" (December 2001). At that point we were in a position to have such a budget, and given that it was in the months leading up to a General Election, it was not suprising.

    Im alright with the plastic bag levy. It has certainly encouraged the use of re-usable carrier bags, and like any commodity, the plastic bag can be purchased if somebody wishes to pay for a plastic bag.

    The Smoking ban was a bit too much of the Nanny State for my liking. However, I can see the benefits which it bestows on smokers and non smokers alike. It was a generally beneficial move, even if it has coerced the owners of private premisis to act in a certain way, in a place which the state should have little or no influence.

    I believe some advances have been made in the Health system. Particularly the fact that the Government came to the realisation that "Universal Free Health Care" is not sustainable or desirable. This model of thinking became particularly prevalent during the 1997-2007 period of Governance.

    I think the FF led Governments did achieve in some areas. However, most of this achievement has been washed away by incompetence between 2004-2008. Some of it will be enduring, such as their role in the Peace Process. However, they have spoiled the economic legacy which they could have forged for themselves if they had continued down the path which they took between 1997-2003.

    I would say that possibly the give-away budget of Dec 2001 was the sowing of the seeds of our downfall. We were due a short sharp correction/recession at the end of 2001 as our competitiveness was starting to wane, however thanks to Mr. Bin Laden and his friends interest rates were set very low to ward off a global slump. Ireland found itself with access to very cheap credit and thus began the expansion of a bubble driven by domestic consumption. With hindsight, prudence should have been the order of the day. Prudence doesn't win you elections though.

    The Motorway Network and the peace process are the two positive lasting legacies of the current government. Other achievements include the plastic bag levy, the cleaning of Dublin Bay, the smoking ban, LUAS, increases in the numbers of teachers and gardaí, improvements in life expectancy and quality of life.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,099 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    No, they got nothing right and deserve zero credit because they achieved absolutely nothing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    Stinicker wrote: »
    No, they got nothing right and deserve zero credit because they achieved absolutely nothing.

    Well that isn't true. You may believe that their mistakes outweigh anything what they may have achieved, but I think even the most ardent FF hater will admit that they have in some instances changed Ireland for the better. Like the list I outline above.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭Poly


    I'm no fan of FF,


    Temple Bar- the original concept, not the gutter of vomit it has become. (vintners lobby again !)

    Putting Ahern, Cowen, McCreevy and the former regulator on trial for economic treason. (sorry daydreaming again)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker



    True, but is this the thread for this?
    Answer the OP :)
    Is this thread going to descend into a negative thread like every other one?

    Actually FF have done positive things in contributing to the demise of the PD's and hopefully the Greens.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Prudence doesn't win you elections though.

    The Motorway Network and the peace process are the two positive lasting legacies of the current government. Other achievements include the plastic bag levy, the cleaning of Dublin Bay, the smoking ban, LUAS, increases in the numbers of teachers and gardaí, improvements in life expectancy and quality of life.

    Name a developed country where life expectancy and quality of life have gone in the other direction? This is the general trend for most countries and nothing that FF should be credited with.

    Teachers and gardai- untargetted increases, and not so slowly being reversed now. You pick frontline staff that most recognise as important but there were larger increases in middle management. This coupled with benchmarking have given rise to bloat and fed our 'elephant in the room' sized budget deficit.

    The LUAS is great but it was done in classic FF style- overtime and overbudget, and disconnected. Where was their 'joined up thinking' back then? And unfortunately for users of the red line, there are proper users there to spoil their trip because FF did not crackdown on crime in any meaningful way, petty or gangland- sure the prison was first to get axed. Yet overcrowding is resulting in inappropriate suspended sentences and early release.

    The plastic bag levy, the cleaning of Dublin Bay, the smoking ban. These were good policies, but more needs to be done to address the litter problem. But still credit where it's due.

    The road network. While it is great, especially if you live in Dublin, it was overly expensive and should not have been prioritised above public transport infrastructure.

    The peace process. FF were instrumental in this happening but were still only one of many instrumental players.

    Prudence does not win elections. Now this is the true FF, short sighted and selfish, at least you are recognising they bought elections. Their sins in this regard are worse than simply promising x,y,z, we can all expect populist policies near elections. FF did more than promise, when it came near election they spent, they literally bought the election using tax payers money to secure their continuation in government.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 179 ✭✭delta720


    The LUAS is great but it was done in classic FF style- overtime and overbudget, and disconnected. Where was their 'joined up thinking' back then? And unfortunately for users of the red line, there are proper users there to spoil their trip because FF did not crackdown on crime in any meaningful way, petty or gangland- sure the prison was first to get axed. Yet overcrowding is resulting in inappropriate suspended sentences and early release.

    The LUAS was planned as a way to reduce traffic levels in the city, however all it achieved(on the whole) was to move people already using public transport from one form to another. As such it has been a failure. However you can hardly blame any government party for scumbags being on the LUAS, thats just a fact of life!

    Regarding FF not cracking down on crime, in their defense, they have actually been quite heavy on crime however the judiciary in Ireland have not enforced minimum sentences brought in by the government, instead using 'extenuating circumstances' in the majority of gangland cases. For better or worse a government cannot interfere with judicial decisions.

    The road network. While it is great, especially if you live in Dublin, it was overly expensive and should not have been prioritised above public transport infrastructure.
    What type of public transport infrastructure do you mean? It must realistically be either road or rail, so why spend multi-millions on rail if only a minority of travelers will use it? The amount of private company's that have sprung up, taking advantage of the improved road networks has actually decreased the number of long distance commuters using cars. In my opinion then, the in-proved road network was possibly one of the best things to come out of FF, even if it took being heavily pushed by the EU.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭scr123


    I could write pages and pages on the good things that happened under FF but let me ask the ABFF just a small number of questions

    Should FF have not stopped Opposition winning an election since 1982
    Should FF not have won the last 6 elections in a row
    Should FF not have joined the Euro
    Should FF not have allowed the introduction of low interest rates regime
    Should FF have kept 50b or 100b for the rainy day
    Should FF have controlled the economy by making sure the unemployment rate did not drop below say 10%
    Should FF have prevented the 7% + average annual growth rate
    Should FF have prevented full employment
    Should FF not have allowed emigration to stop
    Should FF have prevented the workforce rising by 1m
    Should FF have prevented immigration to Ireland
    Should FF not have allowed massive reductions in tax burden
    Should FF not have allowed massive increase in services
    Should FF have not allowed massive increases in Welfare, Health and Education funding
    Should FF have blocked the massive increase in holidays abroad
    Should FF have stopped the massive purchase of property abroad
    Should FF have not spent massive amounts on infrastructure like roads and luas
    The ABFF are going to come back at me with the usual childish immature nonsense about it all being false but who blody cares. This country had 10 unprecedented years of prosperity it never dreamt about and NOTHING the ABFF say will change that fact. If the ABFF had any brains at all they would be shouting from the rooftops how they will take this country back to growth and prosperity that FF could never dream of !!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Enough with this ABFF talk

    People will lash FF when it's deserved and give credit to FF when that is deserved also.
    They are judged on what they achieve

    Just list your examples and be done with it.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Fianna Fáil got one thing very right - pandering to the idiot masses. People love to forget that they get the government they deserve. If you lack political virtue and you vote for the populist twats promising tax cuts and spending rises; well, you deserve what you get. The last couple of years of whinging is completely irrelevant as the people insist that they are not culpable for voting FF into power time and time again.

    The Irish people are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that.


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