Did Fianna Fail get anything right?

Foxhound38

Personally I find it hard to come up with any feasible answers to this question. With all the entirely justified anti-fianna fail sentiment going around, does anyone give them kudos for anything they have done?

For my part, I suppose getting the LUAS organized comes to mind. For all the wastage and stupidity that went on during the boom, at the very least that is something that still runs as it should.

mike65

The LUAS went wildly overbudget and overtime and the lines didn't even meet! Ask the traders of central Dublin how they feel about the LUAS programme.

rightwingdub

McCreevey was right to cut income tax rates between bugets 98 to budget 2000.

Tau

I think the smoking ban is pretty awesome.

Einhard

Nama.

Foxhound38

Tau wrote: »

I think the smoking ban is pretty awesome.

Yeah, that did turn out to be on the button - but was it not the PDs who pushed that, along with their much more hare-brained idea of transforming Ireland into a "cafe bar" style culture?

PeterIanStaker

Did they introduce the plastic bag levy?


Thats all I can think of.

Wolfe Tone

Some would say that they played an excellent role in the peace process.

skelliser

Foxhound38 wrote: »

but was it not the PDs who pushed that, along with their much more hare-brained idea of transforming Ireland into a "cafe bar" style culture?

Actually that was quite a good idea. Would have been a great alternative to the usual pub drinking madness we have every weekend. Imagine an alternative to the pub! May have even made us drink less!

Unfortunately the vintners didn't think so and lobbied their FF buddies to scrape the idea.

paky

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Personally I find it hard to come up with any feasible answers to this question. With all the entirely justified anti-fianna fail sentiment going around, does anyone give them kudos for anything they have done?

For my part, I suppose getting the LUAS organized comes to mind. For all the wastage and stupidity that went on during the boom, at the very least that is something that still runs as it should.

everything wright they did was completely undone by all the wrong they did. the extent of the corruption will never be known

Tau

paky wrote: »

everything wright they did was completely undone by all the wrong they did. the extent of the corruption will never be known

Could you explain your point? How was the smoking ban "undone"?

ancapailldorcha

The amount of money they're putting into scientific research. Ireland is now ranked number 3 in Immunological research in the world. Then again, it's just going to leave us with too many graduates and not enough jobs for them.
Source

mikemac

Smoking ban
Plastic ban levy which was shamelessly stolen from the Greens.

This is more of a civil service achievement but hey, I suppose it happened under a ministers watch
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
The digitization (if that's the correct term?) and availability of census records.
I think this is a fantastic achievement and will help all manner of research for Irish people, professional authors and our diaspora abroad.

ROS, Revenue on line is a good system.
Tbh, if most government departments were half as efficent as Revenue we'd see improvements

PeterIanStaker

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The amount of money they're putting into scientific research. Ireland is now ranked number 3 in Immunological research in the world. Then again, it's just going to leave us with too many graduates and not enough jobs for them.
Source

Thats ok, sure all them graduates will emigrate, leaving the oiks to vote FF.

mikemac

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Yeah, that did turn out to be on the button - but was it not the PDs who pushed that, along with their much more hare-brained idea of transforming Ireland into a "cafe bar" style culture?

Like skelliser I think this was a good idea. Defeated by the Vitners lobby

paky wrote: »

everything wright they did was completely undone by all the wrong they did. the extent of the corruption will never be known

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Thats ok, sure all them graduates will emigrate, leaving the oiks to vote FF.

True, but is this the thread for this?
Answer the OP
Is this thread going to descend into a negative thread like every other one?

Het-Field

The 1997-2002 FF/PD Government would certainly have won my vote.

Within that period they passed the Good Friday Agreement, Passed Amsterdam Treaty, abolished the death penalty, and encouraged the ratification of the ICC.

They also managed to continue the rapid increase in employment during that period. Although, I would credit the Progressive Democrats heavily for that achievement.

Economically, we had a fairly easy ride, and we weathered the Dot-com bubble crash fairly well. We enjoyed extensive, and sustainable economic growth at this point. The Government of 1997-2001 were fiscally conservative at that point, and only one budget could have been defined as a "give-away budget" (December 2001). At that point we were in a position to have such a budget, and given that it was in the months leading up to a General Election, it was not suprising.

Im alright with the plastic bag levy. It has certainly encouraged the use of re-usable carrier bags, and like any commodity, the plastic bag can be purchased if somebody wishes to pay for a plastic bag.

The Smoking ban was a bit too much of the Nanny State for my liking. However, I can see the benefits which it bestows on smokers and non smokers alike. It was a generally beneficial move, even if it has coerced the owners of private premisis to act in a certain way, in a place which the state should have little or no influence.

I believe some advances have been made in the Health system. Particularly the fact that the Government came to the realisation that "Universal Free Health Care" is not sustainable or desirable. This model of thinking became particularly prevalent during the 1997-2007 period of Governance.

I think the FF led Governments did achieve in some areas. However, most of this achievement has been washed away by incompetence between 2004-2008. Some of it will be enduring, such as their role in the Peace Process. However, they have spoiled the economic legacy which they could have forged for themselves if they had continued down the path which they took between 1997-2003.

yoshytoshy

Smoking ban was probably the best decision I can think of ,can't really think of anything else.
The whole world was going through a boom ,so it was only natural we seen growth in ireland.

Liam Byrne

Smoking ban & plastic bag levy; that's about it.

Credit where credit's due on those, however if you were to weigh those up against the downsides they came at far, far too high a cost.

Wide Road

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Smoking ban & plastic bag levy; that's about it.

Credit where credit's due on those, however if you were to weigh those up against the downsides they came at far, far too high a cost.

It's hard to argue that FF I'm govt helped to save lives thanks to The Good Friday Agreement.

hinault

Peace settlement in Northern Ireland.

kev9100

They handled Northern Ireland pretty good, but thats about it.

oppenheimer1

Het-Field wrote: »

The 1997-2002 FF/PD Government would certainly have won my vote.

Within that period they passed the Good Friday Agreement, Passed Amsterdam Treaty, abolished the death penalty, and encouraged the ratification of the ICC.

They also managed to continue the rapid increase in employment during that period. Although, I would credit the Progressive Democrats heavily for that achievement.

Economically, we had a fairly easy ride, and we weathered the Dot-com bubble crash fairly well. We enjoyed extensive, and sustainable economic growth at this point. The Government of 1997-2001 were fiscally conservative at that point, and only one budget could have been defined as a "give-away budget" (December 2001). At that point we were in a position to have such a budget, and given that it was in the months leading up to a General Election, it was not suprising.

Im alright with the plastic bag levy. It has certainly encouraged the use of re-usable carrier bags, and like any commodity, the plastic bag can be purchased if somebody wishes to pay for a plastic bag.

The Smoking ban was a bit too much of the Nanny State for my liking. However, I can see the benefits which it bestows on smokers and non smokers alike. It was a generally beneficial move, even if it has coerced the owners of private premisis to act in a certain way, in a place which the state should have little or no influence.

I believe some advances have been made in the Health system. Particularly the fact that the Government came to the realisation that "Universal Free Health Care" is not sustainable or desirable. This model of thinking became particularly prevalent during the 1997-2007 period of Governance.

I think the FF led Governments did achieve in some areas. However, most of this achievement has been washed away by incompetence between 2004-2008. Some of it will be enduring, such as their role in the Peace Process. However, they have spoiled the economic legacy which they could have forged for themselves if they had continued down the path which they took between 1997-2003.

I would say that possibly the give-away budget of Dec 2001 was the sowing of the seeds of our downfall. We were due a short sharp correction/recession at the end of 2001 as our competitiveness was starting to wane, however thanks to Mr. Bin Laden and his friends interest rates were set very low to ward off a global slump. Ireland found itself with access to very cheap credit and thus began the expansion of a bubble driven by domestic consumption. With hindsight, prudence should have been the order of the day. Prudence doesn't win you elections though.

The Motorway Network and the peace process are the two positive lasting legacies of the current government. Other achievements include the plastic bag levy, the cleaning of Dublin Bay, the smoking ban, LUAS, increases in the numbers of teachers and gardaí, improvements in life expectancy and quality of life.

Stinicker

No, they got nothing right and deserve zero credit because they achieved absolutely nothing.

oppenheimer1

Stinicker wrote: »

No, they got nothing right and deserve zero credit because they achieved absolutely nothing.

Well that isn't true. You may believe that their mistakes outweigh anything what they may have achieved, but I think even the most ardent FF hater will admit that they have in some instances changed Ireland for the better. Like the list I outline above.

Poly

I'm no fan of FF,


Temple Bar- the original concept, not the gutter of vomit it has become. (vintners lobby again !)

Putting Ahern, Cowen, McCreevy and the former regulator on trial for economic treason. (sorry daydreaming again)

PeterIanStaker

feelingstressed wrote: »

True, but is this the thread for this?
Answer the OP
Is this thread going to descend into a negative thread like every other one?

Actually FF have done positive things in contributing to the demise of the PD's and hopefully the Greens.

Laminations

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Prudence doesn't win you elections though.

The Motorway Network and the peace process are the two positive lasting legacies of the current government. Other achievements include the plastic bag levy, the cleaning of Dublin Bay, the smoking ban, LUAS, increases in the numbers of teachers and gardaí, improvements in life expectancy and quality of life.

Name a developed country where life expectancy and quality of life have gone in the other direction? This is the general trend for most countries and nothing that FF should be credited with.

Teachers and gardai- untargetted increases, and not so slowly being reversed now. You pick frontline staff that most recognise as important but there were larger increases in middle management. This coupled with benchmarking have given rise to bloat and fed our 'elephant in the room' sized budget deficit.

The LUAS is great but it was done in classic FF style- overtime and overbudget, and disconnected. Where was their 'joined up thinking' back then? And unfortunately for users of the red line, there are proper users there to spoil their trip because FF did not crackdown on crime in any meaningful way, petty or gangland- sure the prison was first to get axed. Yet overcrowding is resulting in inappropriate suspended sentences and early release.

The plastic bag levy, the cleaning of Dublin Bay, the smoking ban. These were good policies, but more needs to be done to address the litter problem. But still credit where it's due.

The road network. While it is great, especially if you live in Dublin, it was overly expensive and should not have been prioritised above public transport infrastructure.

The peace process. FF were instrumental in this happening but were still only one of many instrumental players.

Prudence does not win elections. Now this is the true FF, short sighted and selfish, at least you are recognising they bought elections. Their sins in this regard are worse than simply promising x,y,z, we can all expect populist policies near elections. FF did more than promise, when it came near election they spent, they literally bought the election using tax payers money to secure their continuation in government.

delta720

The LUAS is great but it was done in classic FF style- overtime and overbudget, and disconnected. Where was their 'joined up thinking' back then? And unfortunately for users of the red line, there are proper users there to spoil their trip because FF did not crackdown on crime in any meaningful way, petty or gangland- sure the prison was first to get axed. Yet overcrowding is resulting in inappropriate suspended sentences and early release.

The LUAS was planned as a way to reduce traffic levels in the city, however all it achieved(on the whole) was to move people already using public transport from one form to another. As such it has been a failure. However you can hardly blame any government party for scumbags being on the LUAS, thats just a fact of life!

Regarding FF not cracking down on crime, in their defense, they have actually been quite heavy on crime however the judiciary in Ireland have not enforced minimum sentences brought in by the government, instead using 'extenuating circumstances' in the majority of gangland cases. For better or worse a government cannot interfere with judicial decisions.

The road network. While it is great, especially if you live in Dublin, it was overly expensive and should not have been prioritised above public transport infrastructure.

What type of public transport infrastructure do you mean? It must realistically be either road or rail, so why spend multi-millions on rail if only a minority of travelers will use it? The amount of private company's that have sprung up, taking advantage of the improved road networks has actually decreased the number of long distance commuters using cars. In my opinion then, the in-proved road network was possibly one of the best things to come out of FF, even if it took being heavily pushed by the EU.

scr123

I could write pages and pages on the good things that happened under FF but let me ask the ABFF just a small number of questions

Should FF have not stopped Opposition winning an election since 1982
Should FF not have won the last 6 elections in a row
Should FF not have joined the Euro
Should FF not have allowed the introduction of low interest rates regime
Should FF have kept 50b or 100b for the rainy day
Should FF have controlled the economy by making sure the unemployment rate did not drop below say 10%
Should FF have prevented the 7% + average annual growth rate
Should FF have prevented full employment
Should FF not have allowed emigration to stop
Should FF have prevented the workforce rising by 1m
Should FF have prevented immigration to Ireland
Should FF not have allowed massive reductions in tax burden
Should FF not have allowed massive increase in services
Should FF have not allowed massive increases in Welfare, Health and Education funding
Should FF have blocked the massive increase in holidays abroad
Should FF have stopped the massive purchase of property abroad
Should FF have not spent massive amounts on infrastructure like roads and luas
The ABFF are going to come back at me with the usual childish immature nonsense about it all being false but who blody cares. This country had 10 unprecedented years of prosperity it never dreamt about and NOTHING the ABFF say will change that fact. If the ABFF had any brains at all they would be shouting from the rooftops how they will take this country back to growth and prosperity that FF could never dream of !!

mikemac

Enough with this ABFF talk

People will lash FF when it's deserved and give credit to FF when that is deserved also.
They are judged on what they achieve

Just list your examples and be done with it.

Denerick

Fianna Fáil got one thing very right - pandering to the idiot masses. People love to forget that they get the government they deserve. If you lack political virtue and you vote for the populist twats promising tax cuts and spending rises; well, you deserve what you get. The last couple of years of whinging is completely irrelevant as the people insist that they are not culpable for voting FF into power time and time again.

The Irish people are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that.

Laminations

delta720 wrote: »

. However you can hardly blame any government party for scumbags being on the LUAS, thats just a fact of life!

It is totally within the governments role to legislate for the safety of it's citizens and to allocate resources adequately to prevent scumbaggery.

What type of public transport infrastructure do you mean? It must realistically be either road or rail, so why spend multi-millions on rail if only a minority of travelers will use it? The amount of private company's that have sprung up, taking advantage of the improved road networks has actually decreased the number of long distance commuters using cars. In my opinion then, the in-proved road network was possibly one of the best things to come out of FF, even if it took being heavily pushed by the EU.

the part in bold is the problem, you need to incentivise commuters to use rail (or public transport in general), one way being by having a joined up public transport system that gets you where you want to go. So efficiency is important. So is security, I'd choose car over red luas, that's the government failing. I'm not saying roads should be ignored, just rail shouldve been prioritised. In fact if you look at capital spending now rail is getting more than roads. If this was reversed so that rail projects as well as our broadband and energy infrastructure was invested in with the latter focus on roads I think we would have better uptake of public transport

Laminations

Denerick wrote: »

The Irish people are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that.

Can you please be more accurate and specific with your insults.

The Irish people FF voters are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that

Couldn't agree more

Denerick

Laminations wrote: »

Can you please be more accurate and specific with your insults.

The Irish people FF voters are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that

Couldn't agree more

Get real. The manifesto's of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil were effectively indistinguishable at the last election.

I'm sick of partisans. Change the record.

Laminations

scr123 wrote: »

I could write pages and pages on the good things that happened under FF

I'll call your bluff, go for it, even just one page

PeterIanStaker

scr123 wrote: »

I could write pages and pages on the good things that happened under FF

You're not a Taoiseachs' Nominee to the Seanad are you, Mr Harris, I mean scr123?

Laminations

Denerick wrote: »

Get real. The manifesto's of Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil were effectively indistinguishable at the last election.

I'm sick of partisans. Change the record.

Yes the last election is where our problems started :rolleyes:

How you can blame the whole electorate for the policy disasters of FF is blame deflection at it's best. The whole electorate are not responsible for FF, voting FG or Labour didn't lead to many successive piosonous FF governments, FF voters need to examine their own conscience and square that circle for themselves. You state you are not a FF voter or supporter but you are most definitely a FF apologist.

Denerick

Laminations wrote: »

Yes the last election is where our problems started :rolleyes:

How you can blame the whole electorate for the policy disasters of FF is blame deflection at it's best. The whole electorate are not responsible for FF, voting FG or Labour didn't lead to many successive piosonous FF governments, FF voters need to examine their own conscience and square that circle for themselves. You state you are not a FF voter or supporter but you are most definitely a FF apologist.

No, I'm a person who thinks and is disappointed in the political system. I'm not someone (not naming names) who is so deeply in love with whatever uncharismatic lout is leading their party that they have lost their ability to reason.

Are you ever going to accept that Labour and FG had no substantive differences over the last decade?

scr123

Denerick wrote: »

Fianna Fáil got one thing very right - pandering to the idiot masses. People love to forget that they get the government they deserve. If you lack political virtue and you vote for the populist twats promising tax cuts and spending rises; well, you deserve what you get. The last couple of years of whinging is completely irrelevant as the people insist that they are not culpable for voting FF into power time and time again.

The Irish people are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that.

Lucky we have one smart person in the country

Laminations

Denerick wrote: »

Are you ever going to accept that Labour and FG had no substantive differences over the last decade?

If I thought for a second that there was no better alternative to FF, I'd run for election myself. If I thought we basically had 3 FFs as our main parties I'd run for election myself or leave the country. If you are saying we have the choice between FF and FF facsimiles then I hope you are actually going to put your money where your mouth is and show us your alternative - did I hear you mention SF in another thread?

One substantive difference that Labour and FG had over the last decade would be no Galway tent, another would be no leaders in front of tribunals.

If you look at what FG were highlighting in Cowens budgets you'd see they were concerned about our competitiveness, export industry, public sector reform and general waste for the latter years when the boom turned to a bubble.

Anyway I'm not here to be a cheerleader for FG, I'm not advocating voting for them, I'm merely dispelling the myth that there are no alternatives to FF.

Laminations

Denerick you must be glowing with pride from your faux non-partisan position being thanked by FFs staunchest supporters

yoshytoshy

Denerick wrote: »

Fianna Fáil got one thing very right - pandering to the idiot masses. People love to forget that they get the government they deserve. If you lack political virtue and you vote for the populist twats promising tax cuts and spending rises; well, you deserve what you get. The last couple of years of whinging is completely irrelevant as the people insist that they are not culpable for voting FF into power time and time again.

The Irish people are an utter disgrace. Fianna Fáil just mirror that.

God save the queen.

Anyways ,

Everybody has been disgraced by fianna fail in the last couple of years ,with the growing problems within the countries finances.
Everyone was told that everything was in check when the voting was going on.

Its not as cut and dry as you make it out.

The Raven.

Laminations wrote: »

How you can blame the whole electorate for the policy disasters of FF is blame deflection at it's best. The whole electorate are not responsible for FF, voting FG or Labour didn't lead to many successive piosonous FF governments, FF voters need to examine their own conscience and square that circle for themselves.

How many times do we have to point this out before the penny drops? :rolleyes:

Denerick

Laminations wrote: »

Denerick you must be glowing with pride from your faux non-partisan position being thanked by FFs staunchest supporters

I couldn't care less. You still ignore the fact that the big three have had identical manifestoes for the last number of elections. I'll be frank - I DON'T CARE IF YOU THINK I'M A CLOSET FIANNA FÁILER.

The fact that you do speaks volumes about what is sick and poisonous about our body politic.

Mr.Applepie

scr123 wrote: »

I could write pages and pages on the good things that happened under FF but let me ask the ABFF just a small number of questions

Should FF have not stopped Opposition winning an election since 1982
Should FF not have won the last 6 elections in a row

I don't get these 1st two points

Should FF not have joined the Euro

I would have thought the people chose to join the Euro. I suppose you could credit them for only asking us once

Should FF not have allowed the introduction of low interest rates regime

FF can control interest rates... have they infected the ECB?

Should FF have kept 50b or 100b for the rainy day

I presume you are talking about income received from developers/stamp duty etc. I have no issue with them spending that money but they should have used the majority of it on capital infrastructure rather then benchmarking and bloating the PS.

Should FF have controlled the economy by making sure the unemployment rate did not drop below say 10%

Not sure what you're getting at here but I think it's fair to say that FF had little to no control of the economy

Should FF have prevented the 7% + average annual growth rate

The 7% + growth was down to unsutainable property development so yes

Should FF have prevented full employment

Again built on an unsustainable bedrock. A few years ago I saw a poll showing that 16% of our workforce was involved in construction. That's way to dependent on one sector

Should FF not have allowed emigration to stop

Do they have Jedi powers we are unaware of?

Should FF have prevented the workforce rising by 1m

Dealt with above I think

Should FF have prevented immigration to Ireland

I don't see the point of this?

Should FF not have allowed massive reductions in tax burden

No, they should have allowed reasonable reductions in the tax burden (I'm presuming you mean from the high levels of the 80's?)

Should FF not have allowed massive increase in services

They definitely increased the spending. I'm not so sure how much bang for their buck they got though

Should FF have not allowed massive increases in Welfare, Health and Education funding

Bang for the Buck. What has the increases done for all three?

Should FF have blocked the massive increase in holidays abroad

I don't see how they could

Should FF have stopped the massive purchase of property abroad

As above

Should FF have not spent massive amounts on infrastructure like roads and luas

Imagine what could have been done if they didn't go so overbudget and overtime. The current jobs still on the go appear to be coming in on budget so I suppose we could give them a round of applause for finely learning their very costly lesson in drawing up contracts properly

Het-Field

scr123 wrote: »

I could write pages and pages on the good things that happened under FF but let me ask the ABFF just a small number of questions

Should FF have not stopped Opposition winning an election since 1982
Should FF not have won the last 6 elections in a row
Should FF not have joined the Euro
Should FF not have allowed the introduction of low interest rates regime
Should FF have kept 50b or 100b for the rainy day
Should FF have controlled the economy by making sure the unemployment rate did not drop below say 10%
Should FF have prevented the 7% + average annual growth rate
Should FF have prevented full employment
Should FF not have allowed emigration to stop
Should FF have prevented the workforce rising by 1m
Should FF have prevented immigration to Ireland
Should FF not have allowed massive reductions in tax burden
Should FF not have allowed massive increase in services
Should FF have not allowed massive increases in Welfare, Health and Education funding
Should FF have blocked the massive increase in holidays abroad
Should FF have stopped the massive purchase of property abroad
Should FF have not spent massive amounts on infrastructure like roads and luas
The ABFF are going to come back at me with the usual childish immature nonsense about it all being false but who blody cares. This country had 10 unprecedented years of prosperity it never dreamt about and NOTHING the ABFF say will change that fact. If the ABFF had any brains at all they would be shouting from the rooftops how they will take this country back to growth and prosperity that FF could never dream of !!

What you have done, is sought to validate the Tax and Spend policies which have pu us on our knees. Not everybody enjoyed the fruits of this policy, and many more are now paying the price for such wanton recklessness.

You clearly dont understand the role of the ECB, and the SEA/Treaty of The European Union as you seem to believe that any safety the Euro provides and the interest rates which are currently in force have been established and set by Fianna Fail. To quote Mr Belding from Saved By The Bell, "you're wrong and ridiculous".

When employment was sustainably high, it is noteworthy that it was the Progressive Democrats wing of the coalition which was running ENTEMP, while the finance minstery was held by a de facto Progressive Democrat. Naturally, this would suggest that FF's success in the first coalition (1997-2002) was heavily bolstered by PD ideology.

"Increases in health, welfare and Education funding". Why not try and use money more efficiently before spunking more money on services (save for education), which guarantees little return, or little productivity when it comes to buffering the states coffers. Perhaps FF should have stopped excessive spending, and spent sensibly within their means. What I am saying is that this purported "achievement", is not an achievement at all.

I have made it clear that employement increases were built on quicksand. Thanks to the property bubble, there are industries which are decimated today. If FF had never fed into the bubble, it would have ensured Ireland Inc would be in a better place today. The same applies to the Growth which you claim we enjoyed. If its not sustainable, or relatively sustainable, I dont want to know about it.

Let me ask you ? Should fans of Leeds United be thankful to the Board which allowed them to be spent into oblivion for the sake of one year in the Champions Leage ? Should Portsmouth be thankful for one FA Cup Win, having also been spent into oblivion ? Not at all. This mantra of "we had ten good years" is crap. It was an illusion. It was counterfeit, and it was a fraud.

johngalway

They got corruption and the smoking ban done pretty well.

Sandvich

skelliser wrote: »

Actually that was quite a good idea. Would have been a great alternative to the usual pub drinking madness we have every weekend. Imagine an alternative to the pub! May have even made us drink less!

Unfortunately the vintners didn't think so and lobbied their FF buddies to scrape the idea.

Sorry to all the Paddy Irish men but I have to agree with this.

Modern Ireland is actually quite anti-social and it'd be nice to have proper places to socialise.

mikemac

Having a beer with your pizza instead of a pizza with your beer.


That was said around the time of cafe bar idea
Always liked that phrase and still remember it years later, it's pretty clever

Callan57

Oh I think they did rather well looking after No1 ... nice salaries, expenses, pensions and all the cronies lined up in boards of this, that & the other.

lorcan1996

The government is doing alot right. Today figures were released that the borrowing interest rates have come down for Ireland, the last budget is going according to plan, the mood around Ireland has been alot better in the last month- month and a half etc.. Look at England, it looks like they could be having a double dip recession. We are lucky we have a clever group looking after the country. Brian Cowen blaimed the media negativity for making the mood in Ireland worse and since that the mood has been boosted, so its about time the public starting being positive.