long term effects of the recession (on people).

RichardAnd

Alot of the other threads here are started with the aim of discussing the effects of the downturn on society, peoples' pockets and the likes. However, whilst these are good topics, when I have not seen much of is how the recession is affecting people on a personal and Psychological level. By this I mean how is the bust making people view the world around them and what might be the long term consequences outside of economical issues.

What sparked this thought was a comment I read in a recent thread about suicides being on the rise. I though this might make an interesting discussion. To start, I will talk about myself and how my thinking has been affected.

I'm a 23 years old male, I am employed, I am single and I have no children. Further, I have no debts and I certainly have no mortgage so I know these two sentences alone mean I am in a healthy position. However, I do not feel safe and I do constantly worry about the future and this has tinted my plans for tomorrow somehow.

If you'd asked me 4 years ago where I'd be in 10 years I would probably have said "married to a nice woman with a child or two, a nice home and a comfortable life". I never had any dreams of a mansion or a BMW, just to earn enough for a decent life. However, ask me that question today and I would answer that I hope I will be employed but that I will be single and childless.

So why the change of thought? Well it simply comes down to the reality of the world the down turn has made me see. Seeing as children in their early teens today face a very real possibility of long-term unemployment and despondency I am hesitant ever to have children. My reasoning is simple; if this is the world we live in, have I the right to bring some one into it? Right now, the answer for me is no.

I know this is just my own situation and I would stress that I am an extremely cautious person by nature. However, if my views and goals can be so radically altered, I am inclined to think that others' might be also. So that is what this thread is about, the affect of the recession on peoples' thinking.

Discuss...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

hinault

Glad that someone introduced this topic.

I'm in my early 40's, I work on a contract basis mostly. I have a wife and a mortgage.
My savings are considerable but so is my mortgage : if it came down to it one would cancel the other if need be.

I see the effects of this recession in my wider circle of friends and acquaintances.
Mix of professional people and less skilled self employed people.
In both categories I see a lot of pain.

Bad enough not having a job.
It is far worse to not to have a job and to have a huge debt hanging over you.
I was a teenager in the 1980's so I am more than conscious of how bad things could get.
I think what we're experiencing these days is far worse than the 1980's.

Back then levels of debt were miniscule. Granted the State was broke back then but corporate/personal debt was not an issue because credit was not available.
Today, we have huge levels of corporate/personal debt and this State is also broke.
The level of indebtedness is what will ultimately affect people this time around.

But.
I've spoken with my granduncles/aunts who grew up in Germany during the 1930/40's.
Their stories of deprivation and hunger and starvation gives me hope.
A nation crushed by war, robbed of infrastructure by the Allies and nearly bombed bacl to medieval times turned itself around.
Their stories give me hope for the future.

johnnyskeleton

RichardAnd wrote: »

So why the change of thought? Well it simply comes down to the reality of the world the down turn has made me see. Seeing as children in their early teens today face a very real possibility of long-term unemployment and despondency I am hesitant ever to have children.

Children in their early teens today are in a fairly good position - they will start to see where good jobs may lie in the future and train accordingly, rather than all the legions of electricians and estate agents that we have pumped out over the last few years.

As for not wanting to bring children up because of the job situation, look there is just no knowing what will happen in the next 20 years. Maybe they'll discover some valuable resource under croake patrick and we can mine it up and live like kings. Maybe the green/smart economy rubbish will actually become a reality. Maybe Europe will bail the hell out of us and we will return to a reasonable level of unemployment. A 20 year timescale is pretty uncertain, particularly as no one knows what will happen before the year end.

But don't worry, even if your head tells you not to have kids, eventually your balls will do the thinking for you.

Has the recession changed my views? Not really, other than that a lot of safety nets have been removed and it is all the more important to be competitive in the market and to be sensible with my money.

K4t

While the rest of the country was living it up during the tiger my parents paid off the mortgage and any other loans they had and saved substantially. This was on steady, middle class incomes and with two children in school. We as a family did not indulge and always knew the value of money, something I'm grateful for today. My parents are in a great situation now and long may it continue, they deserve it.

It's awful to hear stories like some of those on Joe Duffy and even worse to witness on a daily basis the extreme levels of corruption in this country, safe in the knowledge that 0.00001 percent, if that, will ever be accountable. My aim is to save my money, work hard, study hard and enjoy life. There's only so much worrying and complaining one can do. If you want change, you have to be in a position to cause change.

Captainship

RichardAnd wrote: »

Alot of the other threads here are started with the aim of discussing the effects of the downturn on society, peoples' pockets and the likes. However, whilst these are good topics, when I have not seen much of is how the recession is affecting people on a personal and Psychological level. By this I mean how is the bust making people view the world around them and what might be the long term consequences outside of economical issues.

What sparked this thought was a comment I read in a recent thread about suicides being on the rise. I though this might make an interesting discussion. To start, I will talk about myself and how my thinking has been affected.

I'm a 23 years old male, I am employed, I am single and I have no children. Further, I have no debts and I certainly have no mortgage so I know these two sentences alone mean I am in a healthy position. However, I do not feel safe and I do constantly worry about the future and this has tinted my plans for tomorrow somehow.

If you'd asked me 4 years ago where I'd be in 10 years I would probably have said "married to a nice woman with a child or two, a nice home and a comfortable life". I never had any dreams of a mansion or a BMW, just to earn enough for a decent life. However, ask me that question today and I would answer that I hope I will be employed but that I will be single and childless.

So why the change of thought? Well it simply comes down to the reality of the world the down turn has made me see. Seeing as children in their early teens today face a very real possibility of long-term unemployment and despondency I am hesitant ever to have children. My reasoning is simple; if this is the world we live in, have I the right to bring some one into it? Right now, the answer for me is no.

I know this is just my own situation and I would stress that I am an extremely cautious person by nature. However, if my views and goals can be so radically altered, I am inclined to think that others' might be also. So that is what this thread is about, the affect of the recession on peoples' thinking.

Discuss...

A economy based on greed is hard to get around.
Its all about making the most money while you can,and then fcuk the rest when **** hits the fan.
Not a long term economy based on the country and the peoples needs.
But nobody seem to care anyway what way it goes

djpbarry

RichardAnd wrote: »

If you'd asked me 4 years ago where I'd be in 10 years I would probably have said "married to a nice woman with a child or two, a nice home and a comfortable life". I never had any dreams of a mansion or a BMW, just to earn enough for a decent life. However, ask me that question today and I would answer that I hope I will be employed but that I will be single and childless.

So why the change of thought? Well it simply comes down to the reality of the world the down turn has made me see.

I'd say it all comes down to the fact that you're four years older and you realise that you were being pretty optimistic at 19! But you're still very young - too young to be worrying about whether or not to have kids, in my opinion.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in my late 20's, I'm currently unemployed with very few possessions (no house, no car, not much in the way of savings) and I will more than likely be emigrating in the not-too-distant future. But, I have no debts, I'm in a happy long-term relationship and I'm more than happy with what I have achieved over the last 10 years. And I still consider myself too young to worrying about kids (although the missus probably disagrees).

There's a tremendous amount of doom and gloom about this country at present and I feel a lot of people are losing all sense of perspective. I'm just about old enough to remember what life was like in the 80's and early 90's and, while people may have had less debt, they were working a whole lot harder for far less - my aul' lad was working a 7-day week right up until around about '95. If you really think that things are bad in this country right now, pick up a newspaper and have a read about the current situation in Pakistan.

danbohan

RichardAnd wrote: »

Alot of the other threads here are started with the aim of discussing the effects of the downturn on society, peoples' pockets and the likes. However, whilst these are good topics, when I have not seen much of is how the recession is affecting people on a personal and Psychological level. By this I mean how is the bust making people view the world around them and what might be the long term consequences outside of economical issues.

What sparked this thought was a comment I read in a recent thread about suicides being on the rise. I though this might make an interesting discussion. To start, I will talk about myself and how my thinking has been affected.

I'm a 23 years old male, I am employed, I am single and I have no children. Further, I have no debts and I certainly have no mortgage so I know these two sentences alone mean I am in a healthy position. However, I do not feel safe and I do constantly worry about the future and this has tinted my plans for tomorrow somehow.

If you'd asked me 4 years ago where I'd be in 10 years I would probably have said "married to a nice woman with a child or two, a nice home and a comfortable life". I never had any dreams of a mansion or a BMW, just to earn enough for a decent life. However, ask me that question today and I would answer that I hope I will be employed but that I will be single and childless.

So why the change of thought? Well it simply comes down to the reality of the world the down turn has made me see. Seeing as children in their early teens today face a very real possibility of long-term unemployment and despondency I am hesitant ever to have children. My reasoning is simple; if this is the world we live in, have I the right to bring some one into it? Right now, the answer for me is no.

I know this is just my own situation and I would stress that I am an extremely cautious person by nature. However, if my views and goals can be so radically altered, I am inclined to think that others' might be also. So that is what this thread is about, the affect of the recession on peoples' thinking.

Discuss...

man , you are 23 for chrtst sake , you can do anything go anywhere achieve what you want , donegalfella is right ireland will never change in our lifetimes , mine anyway so dont let this basket case of a country impend on what you want to do with your life

dan_d

I'm 27 and a civil engineer.

I was lucky in that I was working until a month ago - in a way I escaped the worse of the downturn (kind of). I've a mortgage that's fairly substantial (350k), but I've a house that I can live in for the rest of my life - with kids (!) - and we are about 50k in neg equity, so I'm not overly concerned about it.It is what it is, and we can still afford it without bankrupting ourselves, so there's no point worrying yet.

My OH is still working. Neither of us have any debts, other than the mortgage. We live a pretty simple life, and neither of us want to be millionaires - the only thing we ask is to be able to afford one week for a ski holiday a year! That's it - don't need any other holidays!

As to how the recession has affected me otherwise - it actually makes a fire burn inside me and it makes me want to get into politics. Because I get totally disheartened by what I see.On the other hand, it also makes me want to dump everything, and leave, because let's face it, nobody around here could give a crap about the ordinary people of Ireland. That feeling has been growing a lot stronger lately - I can't help feeling that I'm 27, and I've other things to be doing with my life than sitting around doing nothing and waiting for jobs to pick up. We're only on this planet for a brief time - why should I be wasting my life like this because other people screwed up and will never pay for it?

On the subject of children....my parents had 4 kids, in the 80's during a much worse recession. You shouldn't really cost kids like that (as I was told the other day). At 23, you've a bit of time yet before you think about that kind of thing. Personally, I want to have children in the next couple of years, money permitting. And so much can change over the time they will grow up, that I definitely wouldn't consider it like that. You're 23, and thinking very cautiously - yet you don't blame your parents for your birth, so you ended up living through this, do you??

Absolutely be cautious. Particularly with money. But you are entitled to enjoy yourself too you know.Take the odd holiday, enjoy the odd night out. It's your life at the end of the day, and it's not much good being on your death bed and thinking "well I was cautious and the was great...but did I really live?".We learn more from our mistakes than from anything else.

On another subject, many of my friends have emigrated, I find it very, very difficult. My friends are very important to me, and I find it hard, to be losing them like this. I don't blame them, because they are doing what they have to to survive. I do however, blame the gov who are completely ignoring this situation and doing nothing to create a situation where they might be able to return. I now have a large number of friends that I see once a year for 4 or 5 hours - if I'm lucky. All the Skype in the world doesn't make that easy.

I've no doubt Ireland will climb out of this, but I worry about whether we will have learned anything from it, particularly with regard to the kind of behaviour we are prepared to tolerate from our politicians.

mikemac

Interesting thread topic.

I'd be in 10 years I would probably have said "married to a nice woman with a child or two, a nice home and a comfortable life". I never had any dreams of a mansion or a BMW, just to earn enough for a decent life.

Pretty much my goal. No interest in cars
Family, nice house, not a mansion, that's all I want someday

OP, you can't predict what will happen for you for the next 10 years.
But certainly sit down and set some goals for yourself.

When times were good many got over confident, I was reading threads that we were the richest and second richest country in the world.

Now times have changed and there is a lot of doom and gloom. I'm reading more threads about "can't put food on the table" and "most people have had pay cuts".

If you listen to Joe Duffy, you'd be driven to despair. So be careful who you listen to in order to get a good perspective.

We have a welfare system, one thing about this country.

And most people are paying more taxes but certainly most have not had pay cuts and even then, there are sectors paying bonuses and pay rises to staff over the last few years and I'm not talking about extremely high paid staff here. But you'd never tell anyone you get a bonus, you'd almost feel guilty about it. If you are a star at your job you'll get offers, be the best that you can be OP.

The answer is somewhere in the middle, best not to get euphoric but at the same time, things will eventually change and it's not all bad.
Answer is nearly always in the middle

Ireland will recover from this eventually.

But:

1. Some of our best people will emigrate, maybe never return to work again
2. The people who caused this mess will not face consequences
3. I don't think much will be learned, in a few decades, it'll be repeated

Just do your best OP and good things will happen for you

danbohan

dan_d wrote: »

I'm 27 and a civil engineer.

I was lucky in that I was working until a month ago - in a way I escaped the worse of the downturn (kind of). I've a mortgage that's fairly substantial (350k), but I've a house that I can live in for the rest of my life - with kids (!) - and we are about 50k in neg equity, so I'm not overly concerned about it.It is what it is, and we can still afford it without bankrupting ourselves, so there's no point worrying yet.

My OH is still working. Neither of us have any debts, other than the mortgage. We live a pretty simple life, and neither of us want to be millionaires - the only thing we ask is to be able to afford one week for a ski holiday a year! That's it - don't need any other holidays!

As to how the recession has affected me otherwise - it actually makes a fire burn inside me and it makes me want to get into politics. Because I get totally disheartened by what I see.On the other hand, it also makes me want to dump everything, and leave, because let's face it, nobody around here could give a crap about the ordinary people of Ireland. That feeling has been growing a lot stronger lately - I can't help feeling that I'm 27, and I've other things to be doing with my life than sitting around doing nothing and waiting for jobs to pick up. We're only on this planet for a brief time - why should I be wasting my life like this because other people screwed up and will never pay for it?

On the subject of children....my parents had 4 kids, in the 80's during a much worse recession. You shouldn't really cost kids like that (as I was told the other day). At 23, you've a bit of time yet before you think about that kind of thing. Personally, I want to have children in the next couple of years, money permitting. And so much can change over the time they will grow up, that I definitely wouldn't consider it like that. You're 23, and thinking very cautiously - yet you don't blame your parents for your birth, so you ended up living through this, do you??

Absolutely be cautious. Particularly with money. But you are entitled to enjoy yourself too you know.Take the odd holiday, enjoy the odd night out. It's your life at the end of the day, and it's not much good being on your death bed and thinking "well I was cautious and the was great...but did I really live?".We learn more from our mistakes than from anything else.

On another subject, many of my friends have emigrated, I find it very, very difficult. My friends are very important to me, and I find it hard, to be losing them like this. I don't blame them, because they are doing what they have to to survive. I do however, blame the gov who are completely ignoring this situation and doing nothing to create a situation where they might be able to return. I now have a large number of friends that I see once a year for 4 or 5 hours - if I'm lucky. All the Skype in the world doesn't make that easy.

I've no doubt Ireland will climb out of this, but I worry about whether we will have learned anything from it, particularly with regard to the kind of behaviour we are prepared to tolerate from our politicians.

very good post , i hope enough people have the fire in their belly to stay and change this place somehow i think it will be like my generation in the 80s or previous generations the best and most ambitious will quietly leave and build their lives abroad i only hope i am wrong because this scum in power here for the last 90 years need to be banished to the wilderness where they belong .

The_Honeybadger

OP as the others have said you are 23 and footloose by all accounts, be thankful for that. I worked abroad for a while when I was younger and loved the experience, family reasons mean I can't emigrate but if I was 23 again, well I'd probably be gone already unless I had a steady job keeping me here. On our prospects, good jobs will be harder to come by from now on, absolutely no doubt about that, and competition for them will be fierce, but cream rises to the top so if you are a clever and commited worker you will have nothing to worry about.

One thing that amazes me about the recession is that even after all that has happened with the banks and our politicians, expenses & corruption etc, there doesn't appear to be any real appetite from the general public for change. People who have done wrong should be hauled over the coals and we should all demand more honesty, integrity and transparency from now on, but I don't see any indication that this will happen. We are very much a country of mé féiners and are probably too worried about what everybody else has to be bothered with things like that I guess, we lack a sense of social solidarity and this recession was an opportunity to change things.

Pharaoh1

Listening to Joe Duffy the last couple of days got me thinking about the fairly substantial number of people who are more or less completely unaffected by the recession. Callers were wondering why there is no sign of a revolution etc.. and I began to consider how many in the "comfortable class" who are no doubt quite happy with the status quo live in my area.
Just a few examples.
-I live in a rural area and the farmer next to me (30's married 2 kids) receives a payment of more than 160k per year from the EU. Further investigation of the farmers within a mile radius (agfood.ie) revealed that most full timers are receiving 30-80k all nice and happy if this continues.

- ESB was a big employer in the area and there are a lot on ESB pensions and a few still employed. All extremely well paid. The income etc.. levy increases has really no effect on this group.

- Within a mile radius there are four teachers all aged around sixty (2 principals) all jumped ship in the last 9 months (maybe nervous of lump sum tax etc...) These people with their gratuity etc.. are obviously more than comfortable.

- There are also quite a few who travel to Intel/HP for work and are relatively secure. Of course they have lost a small amount on the levies, childrens allowance, carbon levy etc..but deflation would compensate for most of this.

Of course there are a number who were dependent on construction who are in real trouble but there is a sizeable group who are keeping their heads down, saying very little and definitely not talking to Joe.

One interesting thing I've noticed recently is that friends/relatives just disappearing not telling anyone about their holiday plans. It seems they want people to think they are suffering (when they are obviously not)
and feel a little embarrased.

djpbarry

dan_d wrote: »

...let's face it, nobody around here could give a crap about the ordinary people of Ireland.

And that includes the ordinary people themselves (I really hate terms like that – what is an “ordinary” person?). I’ve spent a fair bit of time abroad and, in my opinion, speaking very generally, Irish people are, relative to other nationalities, quite selfish, love a chancer, tend not to get too worked up about anything, don’t like change (and certainly don’t have the motivation to enact change) and are far more interested in what you have rather than what you’ve done. As much as we love to complain about our politicians, they represent the above mindset pretty well – we get the government we deserve.

dan_d wrote: »

I've no doubt Ireland will climb out of this, but I worry about whether we will have learned anything from it, particularly with regard to the kind of behaviour we are prepared to tolerate from our politicians.

I doubt it. Ireland has been an economic basket-case for most of its short life, yet Fianna Fáil and Fianna Gael still have a monopoly on government.

Cookie_Monster

Male 26

I've a full time well paid job. If there was no recession I would be working elsewhere cos its soul destroyingly boring but benefits and pay to good to leave at the moment. The downside is my career as such has kind of halted because the work I am doing is quite basic compared to the kind of work I should be doing (Accountant)

Renting, so no mortgage and would not have bought a house regardless as I still see property here as 100-200% over priced.

Finances are very tight each month but only because the car loan is huge to pay it off quickly and I force myself to put savings away regardless. I really shouldn't be driving what I am, as its way over my price bracket but it worked out when buying it (BMW 320 E92)

Aside from this there are not too many changes I've had to make personally, slightly more careful with discretionary spending in the pub and the like but I manage.

Having said that came within weeks of emigrating last August before getting this job.

My parents have had a rough time of it, dad was out of work for quite a while due to the decline in his industry but back working now.

A lot of friends have moved away to get jobs, some again still struggling to find them despite high level qualifications.

It really bothers me that everything: rent, ESB, food, social welfare, minimum wage, etc is being kept artificially high by one entity or another so the whole system can't correct itself downwards to realistic levels

Gurgle

Long term effects?
Meh, we'll be fine.

Hopefully the next bubble / boom (delete according to preference) will be spread a bit better across industry sectors and the subsequent recession won't hit so hard.

rumour

RichardAnd wrote: »

Alot of the other threads here are started with the aim of discussing the effects of the downturn on society, peoples' pockets and the likes. However, whilst these are good topics, when I have not seen much of is how the recession is affecting people on a personal and Psychological level. By this I mean how is the bust making people view the world around them and what might be the long term consequences outside of economical issues.

What sparked this thought was a comment I read in a recent thread about suicides being on the rise. I though this might make an interesting discussion. To start, I will talk about myself and how my thinking has been affected.

I'm a 23 years old male, I am employed, I am single and I have no children. ......................................

If you'd asked me 4 years ago where I'd be in 10 years I would probably have said "married to a nice woman with a child or two, a nice home and a comfortable life". I never had any dreams of a mansion or a BMW, just to earn enough for a decent life. However, ask me that question today and I would answer that I hope I will be employed but that I will be single and childless.
.......................................

I know this is just my own situation and I would stress that I am an extremely cautious person by nature. However, if my views and goals can be so radically altered, I am inclined to think that others' might be also. So that is what this thread is about, the affect of the recession on peoples' thinking.

Discuss...

There are good snipets of adivce on this thread encouraging even..it is hard to escape all the negativity that surrounds us. I have a simple philosophy, we'll all get up every day and do something most days until we die.
Largely we still have so much choice as to what that is. Here are some words of encouragement I came across only recently.

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul

RichardAnd

This is nice thread. We're filled one whole page and there hasn't been an argument yet . So thank you to everyone for replying.

Dan_d, you make some great point in your post, especially this line:

why should I be wasting my life like this because other people screwed up and will never pay for it

That sums up perfectly what I felt when I was unemployed last year. One thing however that I learned from that period was just how nasty humans can be to one another. By this, I'm talking about recruitment agencies advertising false jobs, HR managers posting ridiculous job requirements, people abusing the WPP scheme and the list goes on. It's not happy stuff but like most people, there is nothing I loath more than other people having a detrimental affect on my life.

But anyway, let's continue to discuss.

hinault

Maybe this might help encourage people.

I said earlier that I have spoke to my granduncles/aunts who were born raised in Germany in the 1930/40's.

One of my granduncles told me the story of how the city where he was raised, Dortmund, was absolutely flattened by Allied bombing in WWII.

Whole industries and infrastructure was destroyed. House and property was flattened.
People lived in the underground to escape the bombing.

At the ned of the war, there was nothing for the people.
There was no industry, so there were no jobs.
There was no effective currency because the banking system was broken.
In fact there was no food because food production had ceased and even basic commodities like coal to heat fires and keep people warm, were in short supply.
Basically the country was on it's knees.
Starvation had started to set in.

What did he and his fellow people do?
The started by clearing the debris of the bombs and then started to make repairs to buildings and slowly, incrementally, the country came back together.
Their hardwork, frugality, dare I say belief ensured that out of utter devastation and chaos, they managed to pull themselves back up.

ejmaztec

I think the long term effects will be financial or emotional for emigrants. If people decide to stay here, and are lucky enough to find a job, they'll be paying for the present screw-up for the rest of their working lives. Those taking off overseas will probably be financially better off, but will have to go through the anguish of leaving their families and friends behind.

A lot of people have been trodden into the ground here.:(

Count Dooku

hinault wrote: »

What did he and his fellow people do?
The started by clearing the debris of the bombs and then started to make repairs to buildings and slowly, incrementally, the country came back together.
Their hardwork, frugality, dare I say belief ensured that out of utter devastation and chaos, they managed to pull themselves back up.

They didn't have lazy corrupted politicians and thousands of parasites, looking for taxpayers money

ejmaztec

Count Dooku wrote: »

They didn't have lazy corrupted politicians and thousands of parasites, looking for taxpayers money

Yes, the Nazi politicians responsible for bringing devastation to Germany were gone, but the politicians responsible for the financial devastation here are still sitting on their thrones.

It's easy for everyone to dig in and do their bit, because the entire population share a common purpose, but here that doesn't exist.

Captainship

ejmaztec wrote: »

Yes, the Nazi politicians responsible for bringing devastation to Germany were gone, but the politicians responsible for the financial devastation here are still sitting on their thrones.

It's easy for everyone to dig in and do their bit, because the entire population share a common purpose, but here that doesn't exist.

Its called GREED

dan_d

djpbarry wrote: »

And that includes the ordinary people themselves (I really hate terms like that – what is an “ordinary” person?). I’ve spent a fair bit of time abroad and, in my opinion, speaking very generally, Irish people are, relative to other nationalities, quite selfish, love a chancer, tend not to get too worked up about anything, don’t like change (and certainly don’t have the motivation to enact change) and are far more interested in what you have rather than what you’ve done. As much as we love to complain about our politicians, they represent the above mindset pretty well – we get the government we deserve.

That is actually quite true, and particularly true of the last 10 years.

Personally I'm an optimist (or naive!) and try to see the better side of people. Ireland is still a relatively young state,, which may feed into this attitude. However that's a thread for another day. What I will say is that not everyone is like that, as you say, and I think that some people are beginning to see the bigger picture.There's no point griping about it unless you're prepared to do something about it...

As for your views on politicicans...unfortunately, I concur.

SeaFields

good thread idea op.

I'm in my late 20's. I have an M.A. and an M.Phil. The latter I chose to pursue as i always wanted to do research full time once i got a taste of it in the early days of college life. I could have left third level after the MA and comfortably entered the labour market as most of my MA class did. I chose to stay on. I remember my argument being to friends "shur our generation will be working into our 70's. Whats another few years studying." Retrospectively it was a gamble that didn't pay off.

I have a retail job which I have held since second year at undergrad. Its 20 hours a week give or take and it keeps me going. Its soul destroying to be still in that type of job, stocking shelves, after so long studying but I see my work colleagues who finished college around the same time as me emigrating. I'm not in a position to do that yet.

I declared a few times that the only route to employment in Ireland is start your own business or get on a plane out of it. I'm going to try and start my own business first and if in the next few months that doesn't work out I'll look at emigration options.

I don't want to be rich - just comfortable and to be able to provide for my family. I know a fair few people that do want to be rich and there have been badly burnt by various financial decisions they have made in recent years. I also have friends who bought a family home in the last few years. Some have subsequently lost their jobs or their OH has. Lets just say that saturday night pub visits are becoming every second month at this stage for a lot of them - if at all.

My OH is in a decent job but her company is struggling. She said morale is down the tubes amongst them all and she feels for the people who have mortgages and kids. We are lucky in that regard i suppose.

One good quality that I have developed through this recession is a bit of proactivity in politics. I've sent numerous emails to politicians demanding answers to questions and followed them up with phonecalls and letters. Ive written to papers to highlight the incompetencies of decisions taken locally.

hoyanto

wow deep convo from the 23 to 27 crowd. lol.

Seriously to the younguns quit yer yappin andgo out and enjoy the world before the reality of being a wage slave for the rest of your life sets in.

the_dark_side

there is no real recession yet... so its early to say what the long term effects of the recession will be. Real recession will begin to bite in December

hoyanto

the_dark_side wrote: »

there is no real recession yet... so its early to say what the long term effects of the recession will be. Real recession will begin to bite in December

The way you italicized real was very ominous, sent shivers down my spine.:D

Captainship

hoyanto wrote: »

wow deep convo from the 23 to 27 crowd. lol.

Seriously to the younguns quit yer yappin andgo out and enjoy the world before the reality of being a wage slave for the rest of your life sets in.

I can tell that i have been around the world 3 times allready.
And i am still on the move
And it havent made the situation in Ireland any better though

the_dark_side

hoyanto wrote: »

The way you italicized real was very ominous, sent shivers down my spine.:D

ok... sorry, I was being unspecific. I didn't mean to fear-monger. Over the next few months our leading Bank - AIB - will attempt to raise almost 7.5 Billion Euros in order to partially resolve its finances. It will not be able to do this on its own - with consequences for Ireland & our economy. I didn't want to drag this thread off topic.
The long term effects of the recession will become clearer then

hinault

SeaFields wrote: »

One good quality that I have developed through this recession is a bit of proactivity in politics. I've sent numerous emails to politicians demanding answers to questions and followed them up with phonecalls and letters. Ive written to papers to highlight the incompetencies of decisions taken locally.

I admire your perseverance in trying to contact your local politicians and representatives.

I also try to write/phone my local politicians regarding national issues.

I spent a considerable amount of time last September reading and re-reading NAMA legislation and I sent a 45 page analysis to my local politicans and our our local TD's outlining issues which I felt needed to be clarified and teased out before voting on the NAMA legislation.
It took a lot of effort and time on my part to compile that analysis.

I'm not making myself out to be some sort of economic guru btw.

I did not receive an acknowledgement or even one response from copies that were sent to the 22 politicians in question.

Now that could be a reflection on the quality of my analysis?
Or it could be the fact that not one single politician bothered to take the time to read what I sent to them?
Or maybe they did read what I wrote and I didn't understand it and were afraid to admit that they don't really understand the financial crisis?

Whatever the reason, I am disappointed that not one of them responded.

elbee

26, working full-time in a permanent job, renting, single.

The long-term effect for me is about travel. The job I'm in is fine but it doesn't pay me enough to save, so for the moment I can't travel, which is deeply painful as it was one of the ambitions I was most passionate about.

I'm also very concerned about it in the future - even if I came into money, or scrimped enough to go travelling by eating cornflakes 3 meals a day for 3 years - I'm very wary of leaving Ireland in case I can't get a job when I come back. And long-term, I would always want to come back.

So basically the timing of the recession has pretty much scuppered any hope I have of travelling. The only upside is I have never really wanted a family so even if I finally can afford to travel in ten years, it may not be too late.

Brussels Sprout

28-single-working in the UK (for now)

I graduated in 2004 and immediately landed a job which wasn't with a great company but allowed me to make a lot of money doing a lot of long hours far from home. I did this for 3 years and saved heavily. My parents suggested that I get a foot on the property ladder but I wanted to do some travelling and didn't want to anchor myself down with a mortgage (it wasn't any savvy financial foresight on my part-I just felt I was too young to sign up for a 30 year commitment).

So I went backpacking for a year. When that was over I had the option to move to New Zealand permanently but decided that I'd miss my friends and family too much so I came back. That was August 2008, one month before the financial collapse. Talk about bad timing. I couldn't believe the change in the country in just one year. I had left at the height of the bubble and had comeback just as it was all coming down around our ears.

To cut a long story short I've since spent a total of 12 months on the dole over 2 separate periods and left the country twice to get work (NZ and the UK).

Prior to the bust I was extremely positive about my future and full of self confidence about my abilities. Spending so much time on the dole though sapped me of a lot of that. I had always done successfully academically and I never imagined I'd be down the dole office some day. I ended up staying up until late at night and sleeping until the afternoon. I'm sure some people envy others who are out of work a little for their free time but it's not much good having time off if you are depressed and sapped of energy and motivation.

In my case I remember I eventually hit a low last Christmas. I felt that my life was going absolutely nowhere and that I was just wasting away my youth. Then (I almost feel like saying 'Go tobann' here), something in me just clicked and I had this moment of clarity. I realised that I was just sitting around waiting for things to happen but that I was really doing nothing to help myself out of the situation. I got this new manic energy from somewhere. I signed up for some local courses run for unemployed people and they were brilliant. Just to have something to work at and something to get up for in the mornings was fantastic.
Then out of the blue I got called for an interview in the UK. I got that job although it's not the career that I want to pursue so I'm starting a Masters in September. A lot of people are questioning my decision to quit a good job in a recession but I'm not afraid to do so. If I end up on the dole again when I'm done then I'm going to bounce back up again. I've done it already and I know it's possible. I realised through my own experience that most of the barriers you see are in your own head and if you want something and are prepared to work at it then you'll either be successful or you'll at least have the self respect of knowing that you went out there and tried your damn best.

Having said that I think I am now more realistic and pragmatic about a lot of things. I will never ever take employment for granted again. If I go on to bigger and better things then I will always remember these past few years and appreciate where I've got myself too. I also feel lucky that I have the skills and the youth to change my direction and haul myself up. I know that others are not so lucky.

I'm also grateful of the time that I was able to spend with my family while I was out of work. I'm sure there are plenty of children around Ireland who are at least seeing more of their parents then they were during the boom years. It's not under ideal circumstance but it is a small positive outcome of the situation.

tl dr

dan_d

hoyanto wrote: »

wow deep convo from the 23 to 27 crowd. lol.

Seriously to the younguns quit yer yappin andgo out and enjoy the world before the reality of being a wage slave for the rest of your life sets in.

Someone's got to think about these things - none of the older generations that dragged us into this mess are.....:rolleyes:

Captainship

dan_d wrote: »

Someone's got to think about these things - none of the older generations that dragged us into this mess are.....:rolleyes:

True thats what Ireland needs.
Some younger more liberal politicians that knows how the rest of the world looks like.And how others do it

Elessar

Some interesting stories here.

I'm 24, male, unemployed for over 12 months.

In 2006 I got a job 5 mins from home in an office doing pricing. It was a great job on the outside, I was getting €27k a year, it was stress-free, I was home at 4pm everyday and the people I worked with were lovely. But I was stagnating, I hated going in, at 7.30 each day and doing the same things day-in-day-out. I desperately wanted out.

I left in September 2008, knowing full well the economy was tanking. I did a one year PLC in something I had an interest in and it was the best decision. College life was so cushy, strolling to the dart at 12pm everyday, getting a nice coffee, going to one or two classes and then home again. I was living off my savings but I was happy. It was the breather I needed.

I finished with a qualification that was rare at the time with the intent of getting into a full-time job with it. But the economy had an effect on that too. Though I managed to find casual work with it here and there, 13 months on I am still unemployed. Time flies!

For the first few months it was great, like a holiday. Didn't bother me in the slightest. But now, it's awful and I can really see how long term unemployment can affect people. I'm going crazy at home.

Thankfully I have recently found full-time employment with the DAA which is starting soon. But it's not what I want. If the HSE don't recruit again I may have to consider emigrating to do what I want to do (be a Paramedic). I don't want to though.

I don't blame anyone for the recession, as others are oft to do. This was going to happen regardless. But I also know it's cyclical, so I have to stay positive that things WILL pick up and start moving again, eventually.

Do I plan for the future? Not anymore. I don't know what it holds. I just have to take it day by day at the moment.

RichardAnd

Elessar wrote: »

Some interesting stories here.

I'm 24, male, unemployed for over 12 months.

In 2006 I got a job 5 mins from home in an office doing pricing. It was a great job on the outside, I was getting €27k a year, it was stress-free, I was home at 4pm everyday and the people I worked with were lovely. But I was stagnating, I hated going in, at 7.30 each day and doing the same things day-in-day-out. I desperately wanted out.

I left in September 2008, knowing full well the economy was tanking. I did a one year PLC in something I had an interest in and it was the best decision. College life was so cushy, strolling to the dart at 12pm everyday, getting a nice coffee, going to one or two classes and then home again. I was living off my savings but I was happy. It was the breather I needed.

I finished with a qualification that was rare at the time with the intent of getting into a full-time job with it. But the economy had an effect on that too. Though I managed to find casual work with it here and there, 13 months on I am still unemployed. Time flies!

For the first few months it was great, like a holiday. Didn't bother me in the slightest. But now, it's awful and I can really see how long term unemployment can affect people. I'm going crazy at home.

Thankfully I have recently found full-time employment with the DAA which is starting soon. But it's not what I want. If the HSE don't recruit again I may have to consider emigrating to do what I want to do (be a Paramedic). I don't want to though.

I don't blame anyone for the recession, as others are oft to do. This was going to happen regardless. But I also know it's cyclical, so I have to stay positive that things WILL pick up and start moving again, eventually.

Do I plan for the future? Not anymore. I don't know what it holds. I just have to take it day by day at the moment.

This is similar to my own story over the last few years. When I left school in 2004, I walked into a clerical job in the department of justice. It was boring, but easy yet being filled with celtic tiger rubbish as was, I left a year and a half later to go to college to study computer science.

Funny thing about it was that every single person I worked with and everyone in my family (bar 2 of my grandparents) told me I was 100% right to leave. I graduated last year and after a short internship, found myself unemployed and this would remain so until January of this year (4-5 months). This doesn't sound bad and it isn't but it's depressing me as with hindsight, I see how I could have managed things much better.

Firstly, I hate computers. I only did computing because I had not the points for anything better. My plan was to get my degree and get back into the PS and then get into an area I was interested in (archives or libraries in my case) but obviously, I can't do that now. The other kick in the teeth is that if I had simply have stayed in the PS and went to college by night, I'd be earning alot more and I wouldn't be breaking my balls in an area I hate.

It could be a hell of alot worse for me so I'm not bitter or anything. However, this whole thing has taught me not to go along with trends too much and to make my own decisions based on facts. I'd never make a mistake like leaving the PS again so that's something in itself.

hoyanto

Elessar wrote: »

I don't blame anyone for the recession, as others are oft to do. This was going to happen regardless. But I also know it's cyclical, so I have to stay positive that things WILL pick up and start moving again, eventually.

Do I plan for the future? Not anymore. I don't know what it holds. I just have to take it day by day

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have read on boards so far. You don't blame anyone? Sure it was going to happen anyway wasn't it?

For crying out loud, do you not see other countries like Canada and Australia where none of this nonsense is going on? This happened here because of the exact mentality you have just displayed. You don't care, don't give a sh1te and just are happy to take it day by day until someone comes along and tells you it's all ok again.

You will take it oh you will take it, day by freeking day for the next ten to twenty years, as will everyone else in this country because many people just like you couldn't be bothered to think any harder, do any more, or even care in the slightest that a very select few at the top of the ladder ran the good ship aground and now have packed their wealth up and are heading off in to the sunset while the rest of us fight for the scraps that fell from the table.

Pathetic.

hoyanto

dan_d wrote: »

Someone's got to think about these things - none of the older generations that dragged us into this mess are.....:rolleyes:

Yeah that's it buddy. No one was talking about or thinking about before you. God what would it be like to be such an original thinker.

RichardAnd

hoyanto wrote: »

That is quite possibly the funniest thing I have read on boards so far. You don't blame anyone? Sure it was going to happen anyway wasn't it?

For crying out loud, do you not see other countries like Canada and Australia where none of this nonsense is going on? This happened here because of the exact mentality you have just displayed. You don't care, don't give a sh1te and just are happy to take it day by day until someone comes along and tells you it's all ok again.

You will take it oh you will take it, day by freeking day for the next ten to twenty years, as will everyone else in this country because many people just like you couldn't be bothered to think any harder, do any more, or even care in the slightest that a very select few at the top of the ladder ran the good ship aground and now have packed their wealth up and are heading off in to the sunset while the rest of us fight for the scraps that fell from the table.

Pathetic.

I think he meant he doesn't spend his time looking for someone to blame as it won't help him.

hoyanto

RichardAnd wrote: »

I think he meant he doesn't spend his time looking for someone to blame as it won't help him.

Yeah, no, sure, I get ya man. Cuz like you know, it wouldn't help to know who caused or how they caused the most catastrophic implosion of a nations economy ever in history. Especially considering no one is to blame for it and thereby no one should have to go to jail, or face the consequences.

Brussels Sprout

hoyanto wrote: »

Yeah, no, sure, I get ya man. Cuz like you know, it wouldn't help to know who caused or how they caused the most catastrophic implosion of a nations economy ever in history. Especially considering no one is to blame for it and thereby no one should have to go to jail, or face the consequences.

You've been going through all of the threads in this forum dispensing insults and scorn upon other posters but I haven't seen you contribute anything constructive. So I'm asking you-what would you have people do? Do you want people to write to their TDs? Do you want people to take to the streets? Or do you just want a Bolshevik style revolution?

Tryst

I was broke during the boom I got no benefit out of it what so ever i am still broke now so for me nothing has changed, I have always been on the bottom rung trying to climb up, now there are just a lot more people down here with me. I have always wanted to leave Ireland the recession hasn't made it more or less likely that I will.

Tryst

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

So I'm asking you-what would you have people do? Do you want people to write to their TDs? Do you want people to take to the streets? Or do you just want a Bolshevik style revolution?

Actually yeah I would love to see people take to the streets, I would love if more of my generation voted because maybe these fools wouldn't have remained in power to do the damage they did! I would lvoe to see irish people everywhere wake up and do something to show that they were concerned and pissed off about what happened because it could have been prevented. We as a nation are apathetic we only start shouting out and doing something after its too late, people would have to be starving in the streets en masse before we would get our asses out there and demand that we as a nation be listened to. There is strength in numbers and we out number those idiots in power, I don't want a revolution but something needs to be done, aanything is better than sitting back and waiting to see what happens. Honestly I am pissed off that MY future has been ****ed with because of these greedy bastards. Not that I am letting it stop me I will be leaving this country, continuing my education and getting away from this disaster.

Faith+1

hoyanto wrote: »

Yeah, no, sure, I get ya man. Cuz like you know, it wouldn't help to know who caused or how they caused the most catastrophic implosion of a nations economy ever in history. Especially considering no one is to blame for it and thereby no one should have to go to jail, or face the consequences.

Why do you reply with such a patronising tone? If you can't contribute to the topic in a mature way then don't bother.:mad:

hoyanto

Faith+1 wrote: »

Why do you reply with such a patronising tone? If you can't contribute to the topic in a mature way then don't bother.:mad:

Patronizing tone? Me?

When faced with someone who is happy to admit through the expression of their own opinion that they are so completely oblivious to the workings of this nation and its economy that they don't believe there is anyone to blame for our situation and furthermore that they believe what we are going through right now is just a cyclical blip in the economy of our nation, I feel the need to lump scorn a derision upon them. As it is exactly this kind of attitude and lack of understanding that has allowed this nation to get to where we are.

cleremy jarkson

hoyanto wrote: »

Yeah, no, sure, I get ya man. Cuz like you know, it wouldn't help to know who caused or how they caused the most catastrophic implosion of a nations economy ever in history. Especially considering no one is to blame for it and thereby no one should have to go to jail, or face the consequences.

Forget about textbook definitions of "worst recession" in history that look at how much GDP has shrunk, and look at the situation with a bit of perspective. Nobody is going to bed hungry and if they are well at least there is help out there for them unlike 2 or 3 generations ago. The fact that you have internet access suggests you have a pretty good standard of living, even if you're on the dole.
I feel embarrassed for my generation when I hear people say this is the worst recession in history, dramatising bullshít.

DublinWriter

K4t wrote: »

While the rest of the country was living it up during the tiger

Now this I don't get.

My friends come from a wide range of professions and trades. None of us were 'living it up' during the Tiger Years.

To read some of the posts of the younger folk on hear you'd swear that we were eating 50' Plamsas for lunch and replacing our BMW 4x4s on an monthly basis.

whatdoicare

29 female, newly married, no kids,two years into a modest enough mortgage (180k), on and off unemployed for the past three years (contract work) and in the middle of initiating a career change (which I'm worried about given my age)

Body clock is starting to tick rather loudly regarding kiddies but to be honest, none will be happening in my forseeable future. I am essentially starting again the same as when I was 18, myself and the husband are juggling paychecks to keep afloat, his work has started cutting hours and paying less, so he's looking for a new job.

The main hardship we are experiencing is the reality that we just can't afford to have a child, I could be training for the next three to seven years, we don't have family to take over childcare while we work and while I try to claw my way back into a decent job.

I have been asked in interviews if I'm married the minute they see my age - which I know is the main reason I'm losing opportunities as most employers assume I'm planning on popping out sprogs - (which is true).

So, assuming all goes to plan, I could be nearing 40 before I'm able to have kids - which is just too late altogether! So, not going to happen : ( That's just my recession hardship.

hoyanto

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

You've been going through all of the threads in this forum dispensing insults and scorn upon other posters but I haven't seen you contribute anything constructive. So I'm asking you-what would you have people do? Do you want people to write to their TDs? Do you want people to take to the streets? Or do you just want a Bolshevik style revolution?

Look mate, I could care less what you consider to be constructive or not. Feel free though to lend the considerable weight of your intellect to the "Are Irish benefits too generous" thread.

As far as what you ask me, ultimately I would prefer to see the nation's populace engage in the political system and means of peaceful protest leading to a considerable reform of the political system and corporate law leading to many of our current and previous politicians alongside a grouping of the nations most well to do being relieved of the profits they have pilfered from our pockets during their reign of disservice as well as spending a considerable amount of time in jail pondering exactly how it was that they arrived us at this impasse.

Not that much to ask for now is it?

RichardAnd

Guys, hoyanto has been here before and all he seeks to do is start arguments to derail threads. The best solution with people like him is to ignore him.