Injecting cattle

krazyklown

We have very little experience injecting cattle and i was just wondering what are peoples experiences injecting stock.
We were trying to inject our cattle last night and it drove them nuts. Just trying to insert the needle seemed to incite them. Is that normal or is there a knack to it?
We were using closamectin injection & 17G 3/4 inch needle.
Pretty much abandoned it after one bullock nearly climbed out of the crush:eek:
Any obsevations welcome!

LostCovey

krazyklown wrote: »

We have very little experience injecting cattle and i was just wondering what are peoples experiences injecting stock.
We were trying to inject our cattle last night and it drove them nuts. Just trying to insert the needle seemed to incite them. Is that normal or is there a knack to it?
We were using closamectin injection & 17G 3/4 inch needle.
Pretty much abandoned it after one bullock nearly climbed out of the crush:eek:
Any obsevations welcome!

Maybe "the needle" might be "the problem"! ie should be needles!

You really need to use disposable needles, get plenty of them, and change them regularly.

Apart from the risk of transmitting infection, a blunt needle will drive cattle nuts, and is cruel.

Others may have better suggestions.

LostCovey

krazyklown

yah it was a new needle, disposable syringe & needles were got that day. I heard alright that blunt needles tear through flesh which isnt good so i made sure to get new one and kept it covered until it went into action!
Thanks for the suggestion though!

bbam

Injecting cattle (and I'm sure any livestock) is a matter of confidence and control...

You need to be sure enough to get the job done swiftly but controlled enough not to cause unnecassary pain... It's definitely a matter of the correct technique and practice..
To be honest I had a word with our vet to ensure we were doing things correctly... maybe you could do likewise next time they are out..

Tryst

did you try taking a pinch of skin and injecting into the bottom of the triangle of skin that forms? This distracts them from the needle more or less if done properly. Injections are just something that take a bit of practice.

whelan1

use pour on its alot handier if you are not used to injecting, be very careful when injecting , i have been injecting cattle for years but still ended up getting stitches in my arm where a cow squashed it between her and the bar of the crush

reilig

I find that most needles that are available to farmers these days are thick butty ones. If you look at your vet, you will see that he uses longer thinner needles which allow him to almost inject the animal without the animal knowing. Imagine if you yourself were getting an injection - it would be much less painful if the doctor used a thin needle.

So my advice is to take care with th eneedles that you buy. A lot of the disposable needles these days are short stubby ones. It pays to pay little extra for a longer needle - you'll inject most of the cattle without them even knowing.

narommy

Pulling out the skin as above works for subcutaneous. Make sure you get a good big piece so that you can be FAST (putting the needle in without syringe might help)

If injecting into Muscle then Take the needle off the Syringe. Make a fist and then tightly grip the needle (pointing to inside of hand) on your bent index finger and hold down tightly with your thumb. (Hard to describe)
Then hit injection point 2 times hard-ish with the soft part of bottom of fist and then on the third hit rotate your fist so that the needle goes straight in swiftly. 3 hits must be FAST Then atttach syringe.
Apart from being hard to describe it takes practice to be FAST and confident.

And needles are cheap but you said that wasn't a problem

pakalasa

Good advice on the last post.

Firstly, there are 3 ways to give in anjection
-under the skin, into the muscle and into the vein. Read instruntions on the bottle for correct way.

Closamectin is given under the skin, as far as I know. You really need to have the animal well restrained. If the needle is in and the animal moves, then he will hurt himself on the needle. He gets stressed and job gets 10 times harder. In /out quickly is the key.

It is a tough job, that needs plany of experience. That's why pour-ons are so popular.;)

Dunedin

krazyklown wrote: »

We have very little experience injecting cattle and i was just wondering what are peoples experiences injecting stock.
We were trying to inject our cattle last night and it drove them nuts. Just trying to insert the needle seemed to incite them. Is that normal or is there a knack to it?
We were using closamectin injection & 17G 3/4 inch needle.
Pretty much abandoned it after one bullock nearly climbed out of the crush:eek:
Any obsevations welcome!

The key to injecting any animal, young or old is to have them tight in the crush. If they have space to move up and down, they'll break your heart.

Secondly, do the job quick. the quicker the job, the less stress on the animal.

Lastly, get a neighbour or even the vet to show you. someone that has a bit of patience. with the best will in the world, you'll never learn by reading 'boards'.

krazyklown

Cheers lads some helpful pointers there.

The biggest things done wrong was way too much movement in the crush, the needle probably was a little long for under the skin so i can imagine if it moves it would have scraped the muscle underneath it. I was at a demonstration for injecting in mountbellew last year so i did have an idea how to do it from the point of view of pinching the skin to insert it. Nothing like learning from experience, i would have perservered but the aul fella was having a canary (maybe thats what was exciting the bullocks!) so i left it in the end and we used up some pouron we had.
Thanks lads.

pakalasa

krazyclown,
Another useful tip when dealing with excited cattle in the crush, like the one that you said tried to jump out, is to rub your hand up and down along their back bone. It has a very calming effect on them.
It does work. I first saw a vet doing it a long time ago. A bit like what they do with sharks (sharks of another kind) I guess.
Put all your fingers along one side and your thumb on the other.;)

Feargal as Luimneach

Get somebody to hold up tail for you, (like when you castrating cattle) that will help to immobilise them.

Like other posters said, be quick.

Injecting under skin in neck is less painful than injecting under skin over ribs so the cattle will resent it less.

Sometimes having a lad with a stick in front of the beast and having the stick over the cattle's head will distract the cattle as you inject.

Cattle always feel safer when there behind other cattle in the crush and will less likely go mad when injected. The lad at the top of the crush does not have this comfort and thus he will often get nervous when you jab him. So try and put a quiet beast at the front.

LostCovey

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Injecting under skin in neck is less painful than injecting under skin over ribs so the cattle will resent it less..

This is the only bit I would disagree with - if you get a reaction and subsequent lump on the neck it could trip you up on the next TB test. I personally avoid the neck, and use the skin behind the shoulder.

Another handy tip is to inject the far side. That is the side they will kick on!

LC

Feargal as Luimneach

LostCovey wrote: »

This is the only bit I would disagree with - if you get a reaction and subsequent lump on the neck it could trip you up on the next TB test. I personally avoid the neck, and use the skin behind the shoulder.

Another handy tip is to inject the far side. That is the side they will kick on!

LC

Vaid point regarding the tb test.

If the beast jumps when your injecting on the far side your likely to get a whack since your leaning over the beast or your hand gets crushed against the wall. You can jump out of the way easier when your injecting on the near side. But that's just my personal experience, different lads will say it's safer on the far side (like yourself). I suppose it's just what I'm use to doing.

blue5000

i would have perservered but the aul fella was having a canary (maybe thats what was exciting the bullocks!)

That says a lot, if cattle are excited by someone who has lost the head it makes the job twice as hard.

Another tip is if you are injecting over the ribs and the beast has its head turned to one side, inject it on the side he has his head turned to as the skin on this side is a lot looser and easier to pinch.

jzte0

Good demonstration can be seen here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efcyzt0uEqQ