The appalling truth about our tap water

GarlicBread

http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/

Levels of Fluoride in EU countrys -

(N.Ireland = 0%)
(Wales = 0%)
(Scotland = 0%)
(England = 10%)
(Austria = 0% "toxic fluorides have never been added to the public water")
(Belgium = 0%)
(Czech Rep = 0% "Unethical, Toxicologically + physiologically debatable")
(Denmark = 0%)
(Finland = 0%)
(France = 0% "due to ethical as well as medical considerations")
(Germany = 0% "fluoridation...is forbidden")
(Luxemberg = 0%)
(Holland = 0% rejected in 1976)
(Norway = 0% rejected in 1975)
(Sweden = 0% "banned since 1971")
(Spain = 3%)
(Switzerland = 0%)

The Republic of Ireland = 71%

I thought i was seeing things, i had to look twice.

Fluoridation has been proven to cause severe dental problems and low IQ among children aswell as many other very bad health related things. Our Government says its all fine and dandy. Look at the statistics above and tell me you think its fine and dandy.

Come next election, demand to know why our drinking water is polluted with fluoride and demand that it is stopped in accordance with the rest of the EU.

Dont let them get away with what can only be described as an appaullingly unethical forced ingestion of fluoride by the masses who have never agreed to any such thing.

http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/

Emme

If our water were 71% fluoride it would be undrinkable and arguably it wouldn't be water any more. Do you mean that 71% of the water available in Ireland is fluoridated?

Delirium

Emme wrote: »

If our water were 71% fluoride it would be undrinkable and arguably it wouldn't be water any more. Do you mean that 71% of the water available in Ireland is fluoridated?

Think thats more likely, anything I've seen on the web states that water in Ireland is 1 part (fluroide) to 1 million (water). Thats not even close to 1%, nevermind 71%.

ronaneire

Here we go again :rolleyes:

Oafley Jones

Fluoridation has been proven to cause severe dental problems and low IQ among children aswell as many other very bad health related things. Our Government says its all fine and dandy. Look at the statistics above and tell me you think its fine and dandy.

I keep reading that in Zoolander's voice.

The Corinthian

GarlicBread wrote: »

Fluoridation has been proven to cause severe dental problems and low IQ among children aswell as many other very bad health related things. Our Government says its all fine and dandy. Look at the statistics above and tell me you think its fine and dandy.

I thought the whole point of fluoridation was to reduce dental problems?

TBH, while the benefits are questionable, most of the 'proof' against fluoridation tends to remind me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4XhhTF7vRM

Macha

Fluoridation levels should be expressed in ppm not in percentages. It makes no sense at all.

Denerick

I don't understand the anxiety about all of this. What, exactly, is the problem? Why do people get so worked up about it?

Valmont

OP, I also think the dihydrogen monoxide levels are 100%, so you may want to incorporate that into your petition.

Denerick

@GarlicBread,

I've done a bit of rooting about and see that you are active in the conspiracy theory forum.

I feel this may be relevant to other posters here.

CokaColumbo

I've been drinking tap water for 19 years and do not have severe dental problems and I at least don't think I'm a retard.

amacachi

Denerick wrote: »

@GarlicBread,

I've done a bit of rooting about and see that you are active in the conspiracy theory forum.

I feel this may be relevant to other posters here.

I could have taken a wild stab in the dark that that would be the case tbh.

Emme

Denerick wrote: »

I don't understand the anxiety about all of this. What, exactly, is the problem? Why do people get so worked up about it?

Fluoride is a neurotoxin.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Cookie_Monster

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

ah, why. Bump it on to CT and be done with it

GarlicBread

71% of all available public tap water in Rep of Ireland has fluoride in it. The next closest is England with 10% follow by spain with 3%. The percentage represents the overall system, not the actual amount per piece of water etc.

Ill explain it in simple terms - Irish people are fed fluoride as opposed to all other countries around us who put a stop to it on ethical and health grounds (apart from a very small part of England and Spain).

But its good for our teeth?

Studies have been done all over the place showing it dosent affect teeth positively in any way. In fact it is the opposite, over exposure will cause dental flurosis. This is an important point because this is the reason they give as to why they are putting it in and if this reason is found out to be false (which we allready know it is) then for what reason is fluoride being put into our water for?

Adding to this even further is the 1000 and 1 sinister reasons why it would be added, to the one good single flimsy reason which they claim. It is a very worrying situation and must be probed.

Denerick the digger - i like it :cool:.

On a serious note tho, read this -http://www.nofluoride.com/irish_independent.cfm

The majority of Irish society is drinking poison because simply because we are the slowest reforming country in our region and we have the least amount of democratic control over our society than any other in western or central europe. A truly appauling situation by any stretch of the imagination.

[SIZE=-1]"Today, just one country in Europe continues to endorse mandatory medication of the public water supply with fluoride. In fact, Ireland is the only democracy in the world which demands it by law."[/SIZE]

Cookie_Monster

GarlicBread wrote: »

71% of all available public tap water in Rep of Ireland has fluoride in it. The next closest is England with 10% follow by spain with 3%. The percentage represents the overall system, not the actual amount per piece of water etc.

so if anything we should be complaining that its not 100% available then?!

The Corinthian

GarlicBread wrote: »

71% of all available public tap water in Rep of Ireland has fluoride in it. The next closest is England with 10% follow by spain with 3%. The percentage represents the overall system, not the actual amount per piece of water etc.

Ill explain it in simple terms - Irish people are fed fluoride as opposed to all other countries around us who put a stop to it on ethical and health grounds (apart from a very small part of England and Spain).

But its good for our teeth?

Studies have been done all over the place showing it dosent affect teeth positively in any way. In fact it is the opposite, over exposure will cause dental flurosis. This is an important point because this is the reason they give as to why they are putting it in and if this reason is found out to be false (which we allready know it is) then for what reason is fluoride being put into our water for?

Adding to this even further is the 1000 and 1 sinister reasons why it would be added, to the one good single flimsy reason which they claim. It is a very worrying situation and must be probed.

Denerick the digger - i like it :cool:.

On a serious note tho, read this -http://www.nofluoride.com/irish_independent.cfm

The majority of Irish society is drinking poison because simply because we are the slowest reforming country in our region and we have the least amount of democratic control over our society than any other in western or central europe.

I just thought I'd save time and simply embolden a number of claims you've made, without supplying a single shred of evidence, credible or otherwise.

This is not to say that these claims are false, only that without something to back them up, you don't have much more than a conspiracy rant.

A truly appauling situation by any stretch of the imagination.

I agree with this statement, although I take a different meaning from it than you.

GarlicBread

[SIZE=-1]Taken from the link above -[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The fluoridating agent used in drinking water here is hydrofluosilicic acid, a component of toxic waste imported from the fertiliser industry in Holland. Hydrofluosilicic acid is a non-biodegradable, highly corrosive substance, contaminated with a number of heavy metals including arsenic and lead.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Every year, the Irish government pays hundreds of thousands of pounds to the Dutch company that produces this acid, a substance which would otherwise cost vast sums of money to dispose of safely.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]According to reports by the Environmental Protection Agency in 1997, nine per cent of all water supplies exceed the recommended levels of 1mg of fluoride per litre of water. These and all other exceedances are illegal and impermissible.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Despite all the evidence which now exists about the dangers of fluoride to health, in 35 years of fluoridation, no Irish government has ever carried out a public health survey on its effects, even though it is required to under the 1960 Health (Fluoridation of Water Supplies) Act. When asked in a recent interview as to why no such surveys had been carried out, the Minister for Health, Michael Martin said that the population of Ireland was ``too small''.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Don Mac Auley is now convinced that the Irish public is being denied the truth about water fluoridation in this country.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]``I now have no doubt there is hidden agenda to reveal as little as possible about fluoridation. At Dental School, you are taught only one side of the story and if dentists don't know the full story, how can our patients be expected to. Water fluoridation is sold as the greatest preventive oral health measure ever devised but the story is biased and the indoctrination manipulative.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]``In my view, many dentists continue to endorse fluoridation simply because they do not know the truth. They are not told that the fluoride used here is toxic waste contaminated with arsenic and lead. They are not told there is enough fluoride in a tube of toothpaste to kill a small child or that, according to the US Environmental Protection Agency, it is more poisonous than lead. Yet we are expected to accept that a toxic waste diluted in our drinking water is safe.''[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Mac Auley has now left his former position and set up in private practice. He acts as an advisor to the Fluoride Free Water Campaign and is determined to educate his patients and colleagues about what he sees as the truth behind fluoridation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]``The whole episode has been both shocking and emotionally draining. It is amazing the lengths that proponents of fluoridation will go to protect this pollutant. If the government continues to mass medicate the Irish public without its consent, it will inevitably have to face up to the consequences. When it does, it is my belief that the bill to the taxpayer will dwarf the army deafness claims.''[/SIZE]

GarlicBread

The Corinthian wrote: »

I just thought I'd save time and simply embolden a number of claims you've made, without supplying a single shred of evidence, credible or otherwise.

This is not to say that these claims are false, only that without something to back them up, you don't have much more than a conspiracy rant

I have not said anything that is untrue or unbacked by evidence. I am merely shining a light into what is potentially the most scandalous practice this state has ever been involved in against its own people.

Buying toxic chemicals from holland and pumping it into the public water supply, thats pretty high on the scandalometer if you ask me.

The Corinthian

GarlicBread wrote: »

I have not said anything that is untrue or unbacked by evidence.

I've seen no evidence here. The only thing you've offered is a link to an information/propaganda site, where there seem to be precious few sources to third parties to back up their claims.

Are we simply to take your word for it all?

Denerick

GarlicBread wrote: »

I have not said anything that is untrue or unbacked by evidence. I am merely shining a light into what is potentially the most scandalous practice this state has ever been involved in against its own people.

Buying toxic chemicals from holland and pumping it into the public water supply, thats pretty high on the scandalometer if you ask me.

this is the problem with conspiracy theorists. What motive would the State have to poison its own citizens?

If they are inserting mind controlling toxins into the water supply, surely those drinking bottled water will be able to see above the mind controlled zombies. That is, unless, the State have secretly kept them in Soviet Era death camps in the wilds of Donegal.

If they are hoping to reduce average life expectancy in order to make our social programmes more cost effective, then they are doing a poor job as average life expectancy has consistently progressed since the introduction of flouridation.

If they are hoping to increase dental costs because dentists secretly control the government and hence by extension our minds... Actually, no, I'm not going to finish that sentance.

mike65

If anyone would like to gen up on Irelands use of fluoride this is worth a read

http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/82/5/334.full

GarlicBread

mike65 wrote: »

If anyone would like to gen up on Irelands use of fluoride this is worth a read

http://jdr.sagepub.com/content/82/5/334.full

The Fluoridation Forum set up by the Health Minister to report on the mass fluoridation of public drinking water is a disgraceful waste of tax payers' money and is guaranteed to produce a 'whitewash', the Green Party has claimed.

The party has published a Fluoridation Bill which 'will repeal the current legislation of mass-medicating the Irish population without their consent with the chemical fluoride'.

Water fluoridation will become a core issue for the Greens during the election campaign, the party said. The question of fluoridation is non-negotiable, it added.

"The forum set up by the Health Minister has undermined and delayed the work of the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children, which is engaged in compiling its own report on this most important issue", said the party's health spokesperson, John Gormley.

From - http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=3512

mike65

The Green Party? Pfffft. No credibity for me that shower even if I agreed with the proposition.

Laminations

CokaColumbo wrote: »

I've been drinking tap water for 19 years and do not have severe dental problems and I at least don't think I'm a retard.

Retards never do

All I know is Irish tap water tastes mighty fine.

And who moved this to politics?

Overheal

I told you all so?

The hint is in Water Metering. Look it up. These idiots don't even know how much fluoride to pump into the system. Not that they should really be pumping it in at all.

Mike wrote:

The Green Party? Pfffft. No credibity for me that shower even if I agreed with the proposition.

Thats the problem with Irish politics isn't it? So much Ad Hominem tripe flying around that it's impossible to just say "Hey they have a good idea, f*ck it, lets go with that."

Why don't you cut the crap and support the idea? Because the Greens suggested it? Nonsense.

GarlicBread

I wouldnt be the biggest fans of the greens either, but its flouride we are talking about and not politics.

Heres John Gormley fighting for removal of fluoride from irish water on prime time awhile back. He openly admits it causes bone cancer to kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cebpJJeiL_E
To bad he has turned to the dark side these days.

Theres a reason why they dont put fluoride in their water across the rest of europe. I think we should become very exercised about this. Who the hell do they think they are medicating us against our will. Fluoride could be the cause of many of our woes....

The Corinthian

GarlicBread wrote: »

I wouldnt be the biggest fans of the greens either, but its flouride we are talking about and not politics.

And when you cite the Green party as a credible source of evidence, then we are perfectly entitled to discuss how credible they are likely to be.

How about I cite some bloke off the street as saying that fluoride in the water makes your penis grow? Should you accept that he (a) exists, or that even if he did that (b) he has any credible authority to make such a claim?

Now, we know that the Greens satisfy (a) - at least until the next election - but it is (b) that has been put into question.

Heres John Gormley fighting for removal of fluoride from irish water on prime time awhile back. He openly admits it causes bone cancer to kids.

This would be his professional opinion?

Theres a reason why they dont put fluoride in their water across the rest of europe.

If there is I would hope you can cite evidence of this reason.

A quick glance at the Wiki article on it's use, on the other hand, appears to not give any real reasons for this, other than it has simply not been implemented yet in most cases.

Cookie_Monster

you do know that no-one is forcing you to drink or use tap water, right?

Overheal

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

you do know that no-one is forcing you to drink or use tap water, right?

And yet you also don't receive a choice in tapwater providers.

I'm sure you could do some crazy things to get yourself off the water grid, but for 99% of people this is impractical. The state has control of water.

Anyway your argument is flawed: stop drinking tapwater so there will be no need for fluoridation because nobody is drinking it. Why not just stop fluoridation and continue using the tapwater system?

Cookie_Monster

Overheal wrote: »

. Why not just stop fluoridation and continue using the tapwater system?

because there is no need to stop it

GarlicBread

The Corinthian wrote: »

If there is I would hope you can cite evidence of this reason.

In an earlier post with a link there were many reasons with quotes attached from the respected countries. The words unethical and toxic were used a few times.

Dont be nit picking my arguement because you cant think of any reason at all why the hell we should be drinking toxic industry waste. Maybe because the government said so is good enough for you, ill let people come to their own conclusions about who is baking porky pies and who is profiting from this practice.

It was not Gormley's professional opinion, he was quoting a harvard study i think.

Overheal

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because there is no need to stop it

The system is dangerously oversaturated at 71%.

A 1994 World Health Organization expert committee suggested a level of fluoride from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per litre), depending on climate.[6]

Also expressible as One Part Per Million. You will agree this is far less than the 71% contaminating the system currently.

See also Fluoride Poisoning.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

bigswede12

GarlicBread wrote: »

http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/

Levels of Fluoride in EU countrys -

(N.Ireland = 0%)
(Wales = 0%)
(Scotland = 0%)
(England = 10%)
(Austria = 0% "toxic fluorides have never been added to the public water")
(Belgium = 0%)
(Czech Rep = 0% "Unethical, Toxicologically + physiologically debatable")
(Denmark = 0%)
(Finland = 0%)
(France = 0% "due to ethical as well as medical considerations")
(Germany = 0% "fluoridation...is forbidden")
(Luxemberg = 0%)
(Holland = 0% rejected in 1976)
(Norway = 0% rejected in 1975)
(Sweden = 0% "banned since 1971")
(Spain = 3%)
(Switzerland = 0%)

The Republic of Ireland = 71%

I thought i was seeing things, i had to look twice.
low IQ among children aswell as many other very bad health related things.

Did you drink this water??

Denerick

GarlicBread wrote: »

In an earlier post with a link there were many reasons with quotes attached from the respected countries. The words unethical and toxic were used a few times.

Dont be nit picking my arguement because you cant think of any reason at all why the hell we should be drinking toxic industry waste. Maybe because the government said so is good enough for you, ill let people come to their own conclusions about who is baking porky pies and who is profiting from this practice.

It was not Gormley's professional opinion, he was quoting a harvard study i think.

Explain in your own words:

A) What motive the state has to poison its citizens

Evidence that flouridation has an adverse effect on peoples health or life expectancy.

C) How the government hopes to organise this conspiracy and profit by it (I cannot think of a single reason why they would destroy the health of citizens with no end result in mind - as even Bond villains aren't evil for the sake of it, their objectives tend to be either dominance or profit)

Can you do this? If not, you'd be better off sticking to the conspiracy theory forums.

Macha

Overheal wrote: »

The system is dangerously oversaturated at 71%.

What does this mean? Oversaturation refers to a concentration but you're using the figure of 71%, which refers to the amount of the Irish population that uses fluoridated water.

Overheal wrote: »

A 1994 World Health Organization expert committee suggested a level of fluoride from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per litre), depending on climate.[6]

Also expressible as One Part Per Million. You will agree this is far less than the 71% contaminating the system currently.

Under current legislation, ie, the Fluoridation Regulations S.I. No. 42 of 2007, the target level is set at 0.7ppm.

What exactly is the problem? The legislated concentration complies with the recommendations of the WHO report that you have referenced.

The Corinthian

GarlicBread wrote: »

In an earlier post with a link there were many reasons with quotes attached from the respected countries. The words unethical and toxic were used a few times.

Actually you didn't post any ulterior reasons for it, you just challenged the claim that it's good for your teeth then wildly claimed that beyond this were "1000 and 1 sinister reasons".

Dont be nit picking my arguement because you cant think of any reason at all why the hell we should be drinking toxic industry waste. Maybe because the government said so is good enough for you, ill let people come to their own conclusions about who is baking porky pies and who is profiting from this practice.

I'm not nitpicking, I'm pointing out facts and those add up to you not having given us anything beyond a whole load of wild claims. Nitpicking would involve attacking small details in your arguments while what I've done is simply point out that your argument is built on little or nothing.

It was not Gormley's professional opinion, he was quoting a harvard study i think.

You think? LOL.

eightyfish

ronaneire wrote: »

Here we go again :rolleyes:

Tell me about it. This and this and this all in recent weeks. Do we really need a fourth thread? Does anyone see an agenda being pushed here?

BluePlanet

Why don't the people who prefer to drink floride, simply add it to their own supplies?
Like putting sugar in your tea.

Why should their preference contaminate everybody's water?

Macha

BluePlanet wrote: »

Why don't the people who prefer to drink floride, simply add it to their own supplies?
Like putting sugar in your tea.

Why should their preference contaminate everybody's water?

Give me evidence of the "contamination", ie that the current level of 0.7ppm is dangerous.

Then compare it to the evidence that fluoridation greatly improves the dental caries of the population.

Denerick

BluePlanet wrote: »

Why don't the people who prefer to drink floride, simply add it to their own supplies?
Like putting sugar in your tea.

Why should their preference contaminate everybody's water?

Why do you care if your water is flouridated? Whats the problem here?

I genuinely couldn't care less if my water is flouridated or not. I assume it has positive effects. If it doesn't then I wouldn't know either way (And frankly wouldn't care)

If you hate flouridation so much, just stop drinking tap water. Its awkward but if you have such an issue with it...

Wolfe Tone

TBH I would happy if the water where I live wasn't so hard(I have sensitive skin ) and was drinkable(water has a funny taste, I use bottled)

FruitLover

Fluorides in tap water kill babies, FACT!

Jim Corr told me so, and I don't know about you, but that's proof enough for me.

Cookie_Monster

Overheal wrote: »

The system is dangerously oversaturated at 71%.
.

that makes no sense at all...

Overheal

taconnol wrote: »

What does this mean? Oversaturation refers to a concentration but you're using the figure of 71%, which refers to the amount of the Irish population that uses fluoridated water.


Under current legislation, ie, the Fluoridation Regulations S.I. No. 42 of 2007, the target level is set at 0.7ppm.

What exactly is the problem? The legislated concentration complies with the recommendations of the WHO report that you have referenced.

im glad someone made sense of that for me: I thought for sure nobody was drinking fluoride with a bit of water in it. Thats me shut up then.

My name is URL

taconnol wrote: »

Give me evidence of the "contamination", ie that the current level of 0.7ppm is dangerous.

Then compare it to the evidence that fluoridation greatly improves the dental caries of the population.

I don't know why people need to argue about the toxicity of fluoride.. it simply shouldn't be forced upon people in this day & age.

Is it logical, in your opinion, to medicate an entire population to alleviate a problem likely to be faced by a minority of people who won't properly take care of themselves, when there are numerous other sources of fluoride in food and beverages as well as supplementary pills these days.. not to mention easier access to dentistry and medical support?

Here's a couple of studies that show that the discontinuation of water fluoridation has little effect on the oral health of people -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9758426

http://content.karger.com/produktedb/produkte.asp?typ=fulltext&file=cre34020

There's some talk about adding Lithium to water to reduce suicide rates. Would you view that in the same light? That if it improves one thing for a few people then it's worth subjecting the entire population to?

Irish people have a right to bodily integrity (as was demonstrated in 1965 in a case against the state over the fluoridation of water, actually).. should that not include the right to choose whether or not we want our mains supplied water to be medicated? I wonder if it could be tested further in court today.

I'm not sold on the idea of it being harmful btw.. I just think there's better ways to deliver fluoride to those who need it in a more targeted way these days

Macha

My name is URL wrote: »

I don't know why people need to argue about the toxicity of fluoride.. it simply shouldn't be forced upon people in this day & age.

That is a completely separate argument to it being dangerous or poisoning the population, which is the main thesis being put forward here.

I have a lot more time for your argument but for me it is a very simple cost/benefit calculation and given the benefits to the Irish population's dental health, I'm in favour of keeping it there. As long as I'm subsidising other people's health care, I am in favour of fluoridation.

My name is URL

taconnol wrote: »

That is a completely separate argument to it being dangerous or poisoning the population, which is the main thesis being put forward here.

Yeah, that's a fair point. I just hate to see any discussion about the subject ending up being closed or moved because it's a CT. =p

I have a lot more time for your argument but for me it is a very simple cost/benefit calculation and given the benefits to the Irish population's dental health, I'm in favour of keeping it there. As long as I'm subsidising other people's health care, I am in favour of fluoridation.

Do you know anyone over the age of 25 that hasn't had a filling? I honestly don't think I do.. I've brushed my teeth twice or three times a day since I was 7 and avoid sugary foods as much as possible, and still I have four fillings.

There's fluoride in lots of stuff nowadays.. from breakfast cereals to beer, and supplements are available. There's only a tiny percentage of people who actually need fluoride in their water.. I honestly can't see how it's cost effective to fluoridate 3/4 of the country's water supply to deliver it to that tiny minority. It's a bit lazy too, personally I'd rather see an extra bit being spent on school "rinse-days" where the kids brush their teeth while being overseen by teachers or volunteers.. they do it in other countries. May aswell hit 2 birds with one stone.. it would teach the kids the importance of oral hygiene and save money in the long run, when compared to just putting fluoride in water and turning a blind eye to the fact that a minority of people neglect themselves.

nesf

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Dear God, why?

Thread locked as this discussion does not belong in Politics. If you want to discuss the science of it, go to Health Sciences, if you want to scaremonger and talk ****, go to the Conspiracy Theories forum.