feeding minerals

reilig

I'm having a bit of a poor year on the fertility front with my cows. I have a number that did not hold in calf - some repeated after 3 months. I have 10 replacement heifers that were running with the bull - all were bulled, some 2 and 3 times. The bull has hurt himself and has been taken from the heifers. But there are at least 4 out of the 10 that have repeated. Some of these have even repeated to AI in the last few weeks. Some of my cows and heifers will be in heat and waiting, allowing other cattle to rise on them, I get ai for them or let them with the bull. 7 days later, they will be in heat again. This can sometimes happen with older cows and is a sign that the cow will never go in calf, but should not happen with 4 out of 10 heifers.

I've spoken to my vet and he has taken sample blood tests from some of them. I have 30 cows that were fed on a diet of restricted silage last year and 3kg of meal each per day. All are gone in calf to the bull a good while with no repeats. Other cows and heifers were fed on silage alone and these are the repeats. Vet recons that the silage fed was very low in minerals because of last year's bad weather and that the minerals that I did feed were not enough. Cows that were fed a lot of meal got enough minerals, those fed on silage alone did not. Blood test results have come back today to show that cows have deficiencies in Copper, Calcium, Cobalt, Iodine, Magnesium and Manganese. The vet has recommended that I introduce these minerals as supplements immediately and follow up with alltrace bullets when the cattle are housed and treat the cows with magnesium bullets before they get out next year.

So my question is, are you feeding minerals at the moment? What brands or type are you using (lick bucket or block or straight mineral mix)? How much is it costing? If you're giving it to sucklers, are you allowing calves access to the minerals too and is it safe to do this???

Any information appreciated.

Dan

EDIT: Last year, when I scanned 56 cows all were in calf. There are at least 6 this year that aren't. IMO, that's too high.

vanderbadger

reilig wrote: »

I'm having a bit of a poor year on the fertility front with my cows. I have a number that did not hold in calf - some repeated after 3 months. I have 10 replacement heifers that were running with the bull - all were bulled, some 2 and 3 times. The bull has hurt himself and has been taken from the heifers. But there are at least 4 out of the 10 that have repeated. Some of these have even repeated to AI in the last few weeks. Some of my cows and heifers will be in heat and waiting, allowing other cattle to rise on them, I get ai for them or let them with the bull. 7 days later, they will be in heat again. This can sometimes happen with older cows and is a sign that the cow will never go in calf, but should not happen with 4 out of 10 heifers.

I've spoken to my vet and he has taken sample blood tests from some of them. I have 30 cows that were fed on a diet of restricted silage last year and 3kg of meal each per day. All are gone in calf to the bull a good while with no repeats. Other cows and heifers were fed on silage alone and these are the repeats. Vet recons that the silage fed was very low in minerals because of last year's bad weather and that the minerals that I did feed were not enough. Cows that were fed a lot of meal got enough minerals, those fed on silage alone did not. Blood test results have come back today to show that cows have deficiencies in Copper, Calcium, Cobalt, Iodine, Magnesium and Manganese. The vet has recommended that I introduce these minerals as supplements immediately and follow up with alltrace bullets when the cattle are housed and treat the cows with magnesium bullets before they get out next year.

So my question is, are you feeding minerals at the moment? What brands or type are you using (lick bucket or block or straight mineral mix)? How much is it costing? If you're giving it to sucklers, are you allowing calves access to the minerals too and is it safe to do this???

Any information appreciated.

Dan

EDIT: Last year, when I scanned 56 cows all were in calf. There are at least 6 this year that aren't. IMO, that's too high.

used this stuff this year which might cover alot of those elements
http://www.mayohealthcare.ie/Supplements_Via_Drinking_Water/Easi-Trace.html
easy to apply as you put it into water troughs

Dozer1

I use Osmonds CoSecure Cattle Bolus usually give 2 per cow before turn out, the ones you add to drinking troughs aren't suitable for me as cattle have access to rivers for water in alot of fields. The odd cow would get a seperate copper dose but that's more on thrive and her appearance.

pakalasa

I'm having the same problem. I posted about this here before. I've AI'd some cows 3 times. Other years, maybe 2 repeats in a herd of 15.

Firstly, how do you know BVD or Lepto is not present too. Have you tested for these?

I fed pre-calver, 100g per head, onto a barley/beet pulp over the winter. Then put a Fertility bucket in the field while at grass.

I think it's a mineral problem here too. My AI guy says the same. I've noticed the cows licking the sides of earthy/clay banks, something I've never seen them do before. My own theory is that if you feed minerals at a constant rate over a period of time, then the cows ability to retain these elements reduces. She will simply pass the excess through her system. If you suddenly stop feeding them then the minerals in her system will drop suddenly. Thats my theory anyway.

It's doing my head in, to be honest. Found another bulling this morning, one of my best cows. I had AI'd her 3 times already. To the factory, I think.:mad:

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

I'm having the same problem. I posted about this here before. I've AI'd some cows 3 times. Other years, maybe 2 repeats in a herd of 15.

Firstly, how do you know BVD or Lepto is not present too. Have you tested for these?

I fed pre-calver, 100g per head, onto a barley/beet pulp over the winter. Then put a Fertility bucket in the field while at grass.

I think it's a mineral problem here too. My AI guy says the same. I've noticed the cows licking the sides of earthy/clay banks, something I've never seen them do before. My own theory is that if you feed minerals at a constant rate over a period of time, then the cows ability to retain these elements reduces. She will simply pass the excess through her system. If you suddenly stop feeding them then the minerals in her system will drop suddenly. Thats my theory anyway.

It's doing my head in, to be honest. Found another bulling this morning, one of my best cows. I had AI'd her 3 times already. To the factory, I think.:mad:

Its very frustrating. You first think that the ai man is doing something wrong, then when you see repeats to your own bull it drives you crackers. I had a pedigree cow that was ai'd in January repeat about 2 weeks ago. There had been no sign of her - except for maybe 3 weeks before she came, she had blood on her tail. My cows have all been vaccinated against BVD and lepto for the last 4 years. The blood test that the vet did last week found no trace of either. I haven't seen the written results of the tests, just spoke to the vet over the phone. He said that the main cause of the infertility was the low magnesium but that low levels of all minerals would have a big impact on fertility.

I have heifers that I wanted to breed with - in particular a Belgian Blue heifer and a pedigree limousin heifer (that i got as a feckin wedding present ). I can't bring myself to put them in the factory. If you went out to buy the two of them you would have very little change from €3000, and I know the breeding of both of them. Vet has advised to introduce minerals slowly over the next month. Said to let the heifers run for another few months and bull them again to have them calving down next autumn.

Its funny, the cows that I wouldn't mind getting rid of are in calf first time

vanderbadger

pakalasa wrote: »

I'm having the same problem. I posted about this here before. I've AI'd some cows 3 times. Other years, maybe 2 repeats in a herd of 15.

Firstly, how do you know BVD or Lepto is not present too. Have you tested for these?

I fed pre-calver, 100g per head, onto a barley/beet pulp over the winter. Then put a Fertility bucket in the field while at grass.

I think it's a mineral problem here too. My AI guy says the same. I've noticed the cows licking the sides of earthy/clay banks, something I've never seen them do before. My own theory is that if you feed minerals at a constant rate over a period of time, then the cows ability to retain these elements reduces. She will simply pass the excess through her system. If you suddenly stop feeding them then the minerals in her system will drop suddenly. Thats my theory anyway.

It's doing my head in, to be honest. Found another bulling this morning, one of my best cows. I had AI'd her 3 times already. To the factory, I think.:mad:

would you not try a bull, perhaps a neighbors or something with this cow just to give her another chance? had a pedigree cow this year that was in mighty condition, ai'd her twice to tza and boths times she repeated, on the third attempt i tried roundhill doc and i got the ai man to do her again the following morning, so that was 4 straws and she finally kept..ai man wasnt going to do her anymore after that anyway, also had another cow that didnt keep from ai and came bulling at least twice more after that when running with bull but i think she is finally gone in calf

pakalasa

Well, as it turned out the 2 latest cows (so far anyway), I was half thinking of culling anyway. The one this morning, even though she is a great cow, she gets dangerous at calving, she'll charge from 100 yards. The other has some trapped nerve, or something in her hind legs.....so I'll get rid of these two.

It's just fingers crossed with the rest, that they will hold in calf.
The joys of it all, eh!

I wouldnt mind but the teaser bull had them all bulling very early this year.

snowman707

mostly dairy stock we use animax all sure bolus about 6 weeks before calving,

we also spread one or two applications of sweet grass fertilizer, and the dairy rations contain a small level on minerals

we provide a lifeline per claver in the calving pens but find that the intakes are very low/

pakalasa

Reilig,

Not that I doubt you, but you are sure it was the barley fed ones that held in calf. It's just that I was supecting that the barley may have caused the problems for me.

Also do you have any freshly re-seeded land. I know that very young grass can be low in minerals. Poor root development, leads to low mineral absorbtion in the grass.

I think I will have to get the vet out and get them blood tested also.If I can get some free time.:mad:

bbam

vanderbadger wrote: »

used this stuff this year which might cover alot of those elements
http://www.mayohealthcare.ie/Supplements_Via_Drinking_Water/Easi-Trace.html
easy to apply as you put it into water troughs

We used this last winter/spring for the same reasons you mentioned, plus we had problems with poor calves having no interest in getting up and sucking..

We applied the easitrace and were happy with the results, last two calves got up and sucked on their own..

All cows seem to be back in calf as the bull is not active at all, we'll have them scanned to be sure...

I actually took the spent tablets and put in drinkers of weanlins in slatted shed, no doubt they cleaned up and had better shine too...
Will definitely use again this year..

whelan1

bbam are they expensive ?

vanderbadger

25 cows worth for 2 months cost me 100 euro i think

reilig

pakalasa wrote: »

Reilig,

Not that I doubt you, but you are sure it was the barley fed ones that held in calf. It's just that I was supecting that the barley may have caused the problems for me.

Also do you have any freshly re-seeded land. I know that very young grass can be low in minerals. Poor root development, leads to low mineral absorbtion in the grass.

It was a 3 way mix with added minerals that my cows got - had around 30 in a shed and they were given a lot of meal with restricted silage. Have had no problem with any of these cows going in calf.

I haven't reseeded in 3 years - but the last ground that i reseeded had 2 cuts off it last year. It was fed to the heifers - so that may have been a cause and is something that I will have to investigate.

Another young cow in heat last night. She was bulled over 2 months ago

bbam

vanderbadger wrote: »

25 cows worth for 2 months cost me 100 euro i think

About the same... 100 doses, once week per cow for €65

charityboy

bbam wrote: »

About the same... 100 doses, once week per cow for €65

for how many weeks do they have to get dosed

bbam

charityboy wrote: »

for how many weeks do they have to get dosed

Eight weeks pre calving is what the company recommended, we plan to feed this year from eight weeks pre the first calving which will mean some will have a much longer dosage period.. Calving pattern needs tightening :rolleyes:

mcroc

No-one has mentioned phosphorus. This is probably one of the most important minerals related to fertility as it is vital for energy metabolism & regulation. Make sure you have sufficient levels of phos in the diet.

Scarlets

At 2009 ploughing, I visited a stand - Animax.

Failed to go this year but would have liked to shake the hand of the Welsh man who put me on to Allsure.

Try visiting www.animax-vet.ie

We vaccinate for lepto and BVD, this was the last part of the jigsaw.

reilig

Scarlets wrote: »

At 2009 ploughing, I visited a stand - Animax.

Failed to go this year but would have liked to shake the hand of the Welsh man who put me on to Allsure.

Try visiting www.animax-vet.ie

We vaccinate for lepto and BVD, this was the last part of the jigsaw.

Thanks.

Have been vaccinating for Lepto and BVD for the last 6 years.

5live

pakalasa wrote: »

I've noticed the cows licking the sides of earthy/clay banks, something I've never seen them do before.

Probably phosphorous deficiency. A cousin of mine had cows eating stones on the passageway and used a liquid in water troughs to treat the whole herd. Going to be very common because people not spreading enough P in fert because of cost and nitrates regulations set P levels too low for grassland. You can get the minerals from your local co-op store or vets i imagine but probably too late this year