Krav Maga Seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN

Kraver

Hi
Krav Maga Group in November 2010 will organize in Dublin a seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN - top Krav Maga and Israeli Ju-Jitsu expert.
All Kravers and other martial artist are very welcome.
Book you place now!
More information on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie

cletus

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

arybvtcw0eolkf

cletus wrote: »

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

A Jitz 'expert' from Israel perhaps?.

flynny51

cletus wrote: »

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

Think he means that he is Israeli and is a Ju-jitsu expert Rather than an "Israeli Jujitsu" expert.

Reminds me of this facebook page

"Let's eat Grandma" or "Let's eat, Grandma"- Punctuation saves lives.

cletus

fair enough, my bad.

("eats, shoots and leaves" should be compulsary reading for everybody )

Kraver

Krav Maga - Kapap - IDF -Hisardut- Israeli Ju-Jitsu, there are all similar to each other israeli army systems.Name... well it depends from... who is making money on it. System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[6] and United States Special Operations Forces, French, German, Swedish, Polish army, special forces and security units.
More about history you can read on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Anyway the most imporant is that sysyem is based on really danger situations, very simple, very effective, easy to learn and easy to use in any kind of danger.
More about system you can find as well on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie
www.krav-maga.ie

Dyr

Kraver wrote: »

Krav Maga - Kapap - IDF -Hisardut- Israeli Ju-Jitsu, there are all similar to each other israeli army systems.Name... well it depends from... who is making money on it. System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[6] and United States Special Operations Forces, French, German, Swedish, Polish army, special forces and security units.
More about history you can read on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Today is pedantic day: The NYPD does'nt have SWAT units. :pac:

yomchi

Kraver wrote: »

Anyway the most imporant is that sysyem is based on really danger situations, very simple, very effective, easy to learn and easy to use in any kind of danger.

Like boarding humanitarian ships and blasting all round. Sounds cool. :cool:

Doug Cartel

Bambi wrote: »

Today is pedantic day: The NYPD does'nt have SWAT units. :pac:

There's also two other styles that I can think of off the top of my head that claim to be the official style of the German special forces. I wonder when they find time to learn to fire their guns?

cletus

So Israeli jiu-jitsu actually exists? Or its another name for krav?

Kraver

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One of the creators of Krav Maga was Dennis Hanover. However he resigned call his version of the system "Krav Maga" to make a difference between him and other "creators" of Krav Maga, so first he called his version: "Israeli Ju-Jitsu", and after [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Hisardut"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Hebrew the word "Hisardut" literally means survival. Because survival is the bottom line in any fight, it's not how good your moves look, but who stays alive at the end of the struggle. In Israel it is known as Dennis Survival Ju Jitsu™ to honor its founder Dennis Hanover.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dr. Dennis Hanover is a 9th Degree Black Belt and the founder of the system
P.S. Part of this information has been taken from:
http://www.hisardut.com/
[/FONT]

Kraver

About israeli Ju-Jitsu and Dennis Hanover:
Dennis Survival Ju-Jitsu at Human Weapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDw49dipDwc

Niall Keane

Is that a 9th degree black belt of the system he founded himself?

tallaght01

Interesting how the snotty comments are never left on the combatives seminar threads :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

tallaght01 wrote: »

Interesting how the snotty comments are never left on the combatives seminar threads :rolleyes:

I don't read those threads unless something is reported - whats up?.

tallaght01

Kane Cold Straightjacket wrote: »

I don't read those threads unless something is reported - whats up?.

The point I was making is that the urban combatives threads get treated with the utmost respect, when they are essentially the same thing. It's just an inherent bias against KM.

It's not a moderation thing, Mak, as I think you're one of the few reasonable mods on boards, hence this is the only forum I read these days.

Just a comment on people's wankiness. I've trained at the OPs club, and they train harder than any other club I've ever seen (in fairness my experiences are limited to kenpo in the past, and my current KM and wing chun clubs). They train and spar under maximum pressure.

yomchi

tallaght01 wrote: »

The point I was making is that the urban combatives threads get treated with the utmost respect, when they are essentially the same thing. It's just an inherent bias against KM.

It's not a moderation thing, Mak, as I think you're one of the few reasonable mods on boards, hence this is the only forum I read these days.

Just a comment on people's wankiness. I've trained at the OPs club, and they train harder than any other club I've ever seen (in fairness my experiences are limited to kenpo in the past, and my current KM and wing chun clubs). They train and spar under maximum pressure.

My post may have sounded unreasonable, however I'm sick of listening to KM bull**** about Israeli special forces and the like being trained in this. My point was, when these idiots boarded the humanitarian ships bound for Gaza they were dropped into a hand to hand situation where they just opened up on a load of people killing nine which disgusted the entire right thinking world, so every time I hear about Israeli special this that and the other and KM I roll my eyes to the heavens. It's bull ****.

As for Urban Combatives, please point me towards the part that says anything about so called special forces training in the UC curriculum, we're just a bunch of lads training and enjoying what we do. No conspiracies here.

Ug Lee

yomchi wrote: »

My post may have sounded unreasonable, however I'm sick of listening to KM bull**** about Israeli special forces and the like being trained in this. My point was, when these idiots boarded the humanitarian ships bound for Gaza they were dropped into a hand to hand situation where they just opened up on a load of people killing nine which disgusted the entire right thinking world, so every time I hear about Israeli special this that and the other and KM I roll my eyes to the heavens. It's bull ****.

As for Urban Combatives, please point me towards the part that says anything about so called special forces training in the UC curriculum, we're just a bunch of lads training and enjoying what we do. No conspiracies here.

I don't think Jon that you should link Krav Maga to Israeli policy. There is little or no connection.

By the way my physio told me today that his wife is training with you and she sings your praises.

yomchi

Ug Lee wrote: »

I don't think Jon that you should link Krav Maga to Israeli policy. There is little or no connection.

By the way my physio told me today that his wife is training with you and she sings your praises.

LOL well that's brightened my day up!

I'm not linking Israeli policy to KM, it's the nonsense you hear about these special forces attached to the Israeli army and KM. My point was that if the Israeli army are so up on this hand to hand system surely they wouldn't need to stick bullet holes in unarmed folk.

arybvtcw0eolkf

yomchi wrote: »

LOL well that's brightened my day up!

I'm not linking Israeli policy to KM, it's the nonsense you hear about these special forces attached to the Israeli army and KM. My point was that if the Israeli army are so up on this hand to hand system surely they wouldn't need to stick bullet holes in unarmed folk.

Jon, what the Israeli soldiers done once attacked onboard that ship was what you and anyone else in the situation would have done - attacked back, and very hard.

Its nothing to do with KM - tbh, I've posted this before - I've trained KM in Israel with the IDF and there's not one IDF soldier I know who confessed any great confidence in it.

To put it bluntly, if my government were criminal & wreckless enough to put me on board a ship like that and my comrades & I were attacked, I'd have shot back too - any soldier would, and its nothing to do with any special forces training either.

Lads, if you want to train K.M. for the craic do it. But don't kid yourselves that its got some kinda super power's just because its sold as an Israeli self defence system - because when the IDF go into attack mode they use force a million times greater.

Doug Cartel

Well it's the special forces/swat team marketing in general that gets to me - I don't care what country it's linked with. These guys operate in squads with firearms in very different situations to the ones I'm likely to face in my day to day business. Their training just isn't relevant to a civilian like me.

I just wish the marketing guys would focus on what the classes are about.

yomchi

Kane Cold Straightjacket wrote: »

.
Its nothing to do with KM

My point exactly Mak

cletus

I just wanted to know what Israeli ju jitsu was

yomchi

cletus wrote: »

I just wanted to know what Israeli ju jitsu was

Well now you know, it's not what the Israeli army does

Niall Keane

So I finish up training tonight, I'm in the changing room some of my guys are asking me about a world championship I fought in and some vids on YouTube I hadn't seen, and a km guy announces that sanshou is not for him as he'd be disqualified once he kicked his opponent in the balls, tore his eyes out and bit his neck. I guess he was letting me know that he had onagi and could kill me with a thought? Where do you start? I just raised my eyebrows and smiled.

tallaght01

The special forces malarky means very little to me. But it's true, so they're entitled to market it.

Many many combatives instructors go on about training police/army units etc too.

Presumably these units use KM because it's easy to learn and it's pretty crude. That's a marketable commodity. I know it rubs some of the TMA people the wrong way, but you're going to have to learn to deal with it, as KM is becoming huge.

I happily cross train in KM and Wing Chun, and they both bring different things to the table.

I don't know what the animosity is towards KM, based on who uses it, is all about. I presume these ethical stances will be forgotten when judging TMAs like kenpo and Silat that have been used by armed forces in Indonesia and China with horrific human rights records.

I don't see why KM is always singled out for attack, when other combatives courses are embraced in their entirety. If its simply to do with all the special forces claims, well KM is far from alone. Look at the website for Kelly mcCann's stuff. Lee Morrison advertises on his site that he's trained naval reserves and police. Mick Coup talks on his website about teaching "elite military personnell". So let's knock the idea on the head that KM instructors are the only ones prone to a bit of hyperbole.

KM involves techniques, fitness and sparring. Same as what mots of the rest of you do. The world is big enough for everyone, in my opinion, and this negativity towards KM is just petty.

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

The special forces malarky means very little to me. But it's true, so they're entitled to market it.

The OP claimed this guy's system is used by the NYPD's SWAT unit. Problem is the NYPD don't have a SWAT unit. Am I being a pedant, well slightly, but it gives me pause to question whether this system really is used by any of these other forces.

Presumably these units use KM because it's easy to learn and it's pretty crude.

Let's take a look at one of the guy's videos, shall we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnZ0sfOiuIM

Crude and easy to learn?

tallaght01

Doug Cartel wrote: »

The OP claimed this guy's system is used by the NYPD's SWAT unit. Problem is the NYPD don't have a SWAT unit. Am I being a pedant, well slightly, but it gives me pause to question whether this system really is used by any of these other forces.

Let's take a look at one of the guy's videos, shall we?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnZ0sfOiuIM

Crude and easy to learn?

To be fair, the OP

A) gave a referenced link to an article about the use of KM by an NYPD "SWAT" team. OK, so they call theselves ESU or whatever, but they carry out the SWAT function for the NYPD, if the semantics really matter that much.

Using that video to prove that KM isn't easy to learn is the equivalent of showing a montage of Ronaldo's finest moments to persuade kids that soccer is a very difficult sport to learn.

I don't mind defending KM on the basis of what it's actually about. I, unlike many people involved in martial arts, am very open about the limitations of what I train (in fact last convo I had about KM involved me talking to a mate about where it falls down).

But arguing about what the name of a SWAT unit is really doesn't get us anywhere in that debate, and is just about trying to put another style down.

Like I always say, I train in KM for fun. In a bad situation in the street, if you can strike or grapple well, are used to sparring and are used to taking the odd clatter, then you might just get out of it in 1 piece. That goes for KM, or whatever style other want to claim is the best for dealing with aggro.

EDIT: Just to add, I'd rather KM didn't market the special forces stuff so much, either. I think it;s irrelevant. But it does get bums on seats in fairness. Though where I train there;s never any mention of that stuff. The Irish KM clubs (of which only one or 2 are IKMF clubs anyway, are terrible for it)

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

To be fair, the OP

A) gave a referenced link to an article about the use of KM by an NYPD "SWAT" team. OK, so they call theselves ESU or whatever, but they carry out the SWAT function for the NYPD, if the semantics really matter that much.

He cites a wikipedia article that in turn cites Time Out magazine.

Using that video to prove that KM isn't easy to learn is the equivalent of showing a montage of Ronaldo's finest moments to persuade kids that soccer is a very difficult sport to learn.

It's the guy who's giving the seminar, that's what he put up.

tallaght01

Doug Cartel wrote: »

He cites a wikipedia article that in turn cites Time Out magazine.

That's what they call a reference.

Doug Cartel wrote: »

It's the guy who's giving the seminar, that's what he put up.

The stuff he does in the gi is not KM, unless it's some weird style that he made up.

KM is very simple to learn. If Ronado was giving a class to some youngsters, or apub team, would you show a montage of his finest pieces of skill an expect him to teach that? Or to use it to try and prove that soccer is too hard to learn.

Honestly, I'm getting embarrassed to be involved in this argument. Like I said, I'm always happy to be involved in discussion about KMs merits. But this argument is just about desperately trying to discredit a very very good KM club by any means possible.

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

That's what they call a reference.

Yes, a reference to Time Out magazine.

The stuff he does in the gi is not KM, unless it's some weird style that he made up.

Again, he's the guy giving the seminar. If what he's doing isn't KM, you need to take it up with him, not me.

If Ronado was giving a class to some youngsters, or apub team, would you show a montage of his finest pieces of skill an expect him to teach that? Or to use it to try and prove that soccer is too hard to learn.

You know, what I'm not actually that big a fotball fan. I don't really know enough about Ronaldo's style of play to comment on that. Football is a bit far off martial arts anyway. How about we compare it with a Kosei Inoue highlight video? (After all, he is the David Beckham of the judo world.) In that video Inoue is going to be doing pretty much the exact same things as anyone with a few months of judo, he's just going to be doing them a whole lot better.

Honestly, I'm getting embarrassed to be involved in this argument. Like I said, I'm always happy to be involved in discussion about KMs merits. But this argument is just about desperately trying to discredit a very very good KM club by any means possible.

Oh, the moral high-ground. I've always wondered what it's like up there.

tallaght01

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Yes, a reference to Time Out magazine.



Again, he's the guy giving the seminar. If what he's doing isn't KM, you need to take it up with him, not me.


You know, what I'm not actually that big a fotball fan. I don't really know enough about Ronaldo's style of play to comment on that. Football is a bit far off martial arts anyway. How about we compare it with a Kosei Inoue highlight video? (After all, he is the David Beckham of the judo world.) In that video Inoue is going to be doing pretty much the exact same things as anyone with a few months of judo, he's just going to be doing them a whole lot better.


Oh, the moral high-ground. I've always wondered what it's like up there.

So you won't believe something because it;s in a magazine, but you don't believe me that the stuff in a demonstration youtube video isn't all KM, even when the guy who posted it says it's not.

Jaysis.

As you don't know much about Ronaldo, here's a video of him, You can compare that with the grass roots footie video shown below it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsPHWpkZbWQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AArxGbEelyc

Like I said, this is obviously a nonsense argument at this stage. But I'm more than happy to post again if someone wants to talk about actual KM. Otherwise I'm done.

cletus

I know very little about km, and on this thread Israeli ju-jitsu came up. now the guy in the video did some of his stuff in a gi, so it could be supposed that this was the latter. however the op claimed that its the same thing, just marketed under a different name, cause it was a break-away group

We'll work, then, on the assumption that the techniques demo'ed in the fatiques etc is the km element. I stopped watching the video when Mr Elghanayan attacked two opponents with the butt of his rifle, and side-kicked the third in the face

Doug Cartel

tallaght01 wrote: »

So you won't believe something because it;s in a magazine,

It's just that the either the OP didn't read the source he quoted, or the source - an event listings magazine - got their facts wrong. I wonder where he got the idea that the other groups were using this training.

but you don't believe me that the stuff in a demonstration youtube video isn't all KM, even when the guy who posted it says it's not.

I have no problem believing this isn't pure KM, whatever that is, but it is the guy who's giving the seminar. This is what he does.

You keep saying that you only want to talk about KM, but you also say that this guy isn't KM - so what's your problem with this thread?

tallaght01

cletus wrote: »

I know very little about km, and on this thread Israeli ju-jitsu came up. now the guy in the video did some of his stuff in a gi, so it could be supposed that this was the latter. however the op claimed that its the same thing, just marketed under a different name, cause it was a break-away group

We'll work, then, on the assumption that the techniques demo'ed in the fatiques etc is the km element. I stopped watching the video when Mr Elghanayan attacked two opponents with the butt of his rifle, and side-kicked the third in the face

Yea the poster of the video says it's a demo of KM and israeli JJ, whatever that is. As KM is specifically gi-less and doesn't involve most of the stuff yer man does in his gi, then it's safe enough to assume that's the ju jitsu part of the demo.

Have to say, though, that Israeli Ju-jitsu is a new one on me.

tallaght01

Doug Cartel wrote: »

It's just that the either the OP didn't read the source he quoted, or the source - an event listings magazine - got their facts wrong. I wonder where he got the idea that the other groups were using this training.

I have no problem believing this isn't pure KM, whatever that is, but it is the guy who's giving the seminar. This is what he does.

You keep saying that you only want to talk about KM, but you also say that this guy isn't KM - so what's your problem with this thread?

I never said the guy doesn't do KM. He's coming to Dublin to do a KM seminar. The video shows him doing KM and ju-jitsu. I don't know what else I can say to make that clearer.

EDIT: If you really care about whether KM is used by funky police and miltary units (I couldn't care less) then the IKMF has some letters of thanks from SWAT units and special forces units on their website http://www.krav-maga.com/reference.html

cletus

Kraver wrote: »

Hi
Krav Maga Group in November 2010 will organize in Dublin a seminar with ROY ELGHANAYAN - top Krav Maga and Israeli Ju-Jitsu expert.
All Kravers and other martial artist are very welcome.
Book you place now!
More information on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie

cletus wrote: »

Whats Israeli ju-jitsu?

Kraver wrote: »

Krav Maga - Kapap - IDF -Hisardut- Israeli Ju-Jitsu, there are all similar to each other israeli army systems.Name... well it depends from... who is making money on it. System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[6] and United States Special Operations Forces, French, German, Swedish, Polish army, special forces and security units.
More about history you can read on:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

Anyway the most imporant is that sysyem is based on really danger situations, very simple, very effective, easy to learn and easy to use in any kind of danger.
More about system you can find as well on:
www.kravmagagroup.ie
www.krav-maga.ie

Kraver wrote: »

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]One of the creators of Krav Maga was Dennis Hanover. However he resigned call his version of the system "Krav Maga" to make a difference between him and other "creators" of Krav Maga, so first he called his version: "Israeli Ju-Jitsu", and after [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Hisardut"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In Hebrew the word "Hisardut" literally means survival. Because survival is the bottom line in any fight, it's not how good your moves look, but who stays alive at the end of the struggle. In Israel it is known as Dennis Survival Ju Jitsu™ to honor its founder Dennis Hanover.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dr. Dennis Hanover is a 9th Degree Black Belt and the founder of the system
P.S. Part of this information has been taken from:
http://www.hisardut.com/
[/FONT]

The OP, the guy who I presume is bringing over ROY ELGHANAYAN, has stated that Israeli ju-jitsu is basically km under a different name

The video shows ROY ELGHANAYAN doing a series of techniques in both fatigues and gi. To somebody not having trained in, nor well versed in the history of, krav maga, this would lead me to believe that the stuff in the video is KM

Could the op possibly weigh in here with his understanding of the above video?


After having a look, it seems that the guy organising this is Robert Bednarski, who has been mentioned on boards before as a fully qualified instructor, so presumably he knows what he's talking about re km?

tallaght01

I think it's just a case of Robert being wrong about that. Hisardut is different to KM. So, if Hisardt is the same a IJJ, then it's not KM. Also it's done in a gi. No proper KM is practiced in a gi.

Sid_Justice

ah that old chestnut. if someone shows me something i don't like about my martial art/system i say that's not real/proper.

tallaght01

Sid_Justice wrote: »

ah that old chestnut. if someone shows me something i don't like about my martial art/system i say that's not real/proper.

so why do you think it's KM? Considering the video is a demo of KM AND IJJ. The stuff in fatigues is KM. The stuff in the gi isn't. Unless you know something I don't.

Or else it's just a wanky anti-KM comment. But that wouldn't happen here, obviously.

Kraver

Dear Debaters
1.The You Tube film attached above is only a presentation of amazing body skills of ROY ELGHANAYAN and contains couple of presentation from different places and contains techniques of Krav Maga, Kapap, Aikido, to show that this guy is not a peace of wood. Krav Maga doesn't contain high kick and any techniques of "sitting on the head" (not in the standing position :-) )
2. Information: " System is used by Mossad, Shin Bet, FBI, SWAT units of the NYPD[6] and United States Special Operations Forces," were taken from Wikipedia.
3.Krav Maga is still an evolving system, so there are couple of different version of KM. But idea of this system is the same: Maximum easy for defender and maximum damage and effort for attacker.
4.This talk about attack on humanitarian boat and connecting that to Krav Maga, with respect to all debaters, has no sens.
Thousands of people is making for example Chinese Martial Arts but nobody is connecting it, let say with Chinese regime and breaking of human rights.
Israeli and international instructors are teaching Krav Maga with respect to any culture, there are no barriers to teach anybody

Thanks for attending of this thread and all of you, ladies and gentlemen, Kravers or non-kravers, with experience in fight systems or martial arts or without experience are very welcome on seminar.

Regards
Kraver

cletus

tallaght01 wrote: »

so why do you think it's KM? Considering the video is a demo of KM AND IJJ. The stuff in fatigues is KM. The stuff in the gi isn't. Unless you know something I don't.

Because the qualified instructor organising this seminar has stated, twice, that its the same thing

tallaght01

cletus wrote: »

Because the qualified instructor organising this seminar has stated, twice, that its the same thing

I said before I think Robert got that wrong, and outlined the reasons why.

If you watch the video aswell it says "Witness Roy Elghanayan, Israeli Special Forces top Krav Maga instructor, demonstrate his expertise in Krav Maga and Israeli Ju-Jitsu".

I think the "and" gives it away.

cletus

One of the creators of Krav Maga was Dennis Hanover. However he resigned call his version of the system "Krav Maga" to make a difference between him and other "creators" of Krav Maga, so first he called his version: "Israeli Ju-Jitsu", and after "Hisardut"
In Hebrew the word "Hisardut" literally means survival. Because survival is the bottom line in any fight, it's not how good your moves look, but who stays alive at the end of the struggle. In Israel it is known as Dennis Survival Ju Jitsu™ to honor its founder Dennis Hanover.

This was Roberts quote as to the origin of Israeli ju jitsu. He describes it as another version of km.

Also you never actually stated why you think that a fully qualified instructor in km would be wrong or confused or whatever re km

tallaght01

cletus wrote: »

This was Roberts quote as to the origin of Israeli ju jitsu. He describes it as another version of km.

Also you never actually stated why you think that a fully qualified instructor in km would be wrong or confused or whatever re km

I think you need to look beyond your fixation with Robert's quote. Let's recap again.

KM isn't performed in a gi.

The video refers to KM AND IJJ.

The stuff he does in a gi is not KM.

Robert also said that IJJ is the same as Hisardut, which is sure as hell different to KM.

I don't know what else I can say to make that any clearer.

cletus

I dont have a fixation, I'm just pointing out what a qualified instructor has said. I personally have no knowledge of any of these arts. I'm not backing up his statements, but your not offering anything other than "he's wrong".

I originally wanted to find out what Israeli ju jitsu is, and Robert is the only one to offer an explanation

Doug Cartel

Perhaps Robert could clarify if this going to be a Krav Maga seminar, or Israeli Jujitsu, high flying fight choreography, or some mixture of the three?

cletus

tut tut Doug, was that a wanky statement?

tallaght01

cletus wrote: »

I dont have a fixation, I'm just pointing out what a qualified instructor has said. I personally have no knowledge of any of these arts. I'm not backing up his statements, but your not offering anything other than "he's wrong".

I originally wanted to find out what Israeli ju jitsu is, and Robert is the only one to offer an explanation

he said it's the precurson to Hisardut. Like I said above, that's different to KM. I don't know much about it, but there's a link below.

http://www.hisardut.com/

cletus wrote: »

tut tut Doug, was that a wanky statement?

:rolleyes:

Doug Cartel

cletus wrote: »

tut tut Doug, was that a wanky statement?

Not this time. I actually think it would be the quickest way to clear things up between you and tallaght01.

cletus

Ok, i had a look at the hirsadut website, but to be honest I dont see anything different that km, urban combatives, rbsd etc. they all seem to market themselve to the "sport is no good" paranoia set, thats why i was hoping that somebody on this thread could clarify

The statement below was taken from your link, and sums up this training for me

Armed burglary, rape, murder, home intrusion, aggravated assault, carjacking, hijacking, kidnapping, suicidal terrorism and natural disasters are on the rise. People from all walks of life are exposed to these threats. The Hisardut® system provides the critical information and proven solutions necessary to survive these threats

Personally i have never been exposed to these dangers, maybe I'm one of the lucky few, but it seems to prey on peoples fears

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I cant really see any fundametal difference between km and hirsadut other than the creator and name