Near Death Experiences

Metalfan

If a similiar topic to this has already been brought up then apologies

I was watching a thing on discovery where this guy claimed that during a life or death operation (he suposidely 'died' during it and was dead for a couple of minutes before being revived) that he had this vision of hell in which he was being tortured with pitchforks and all that. Apparently he was so effected by it that he became a priest

That was just one example there were loads of others near death experiences most of which followed the same pattern ie tunnel and white light etc.

What do ye reckon is the explaination for these? I know that when pilots experience extreme G forces they get a similar short of tunnel vision due to lack of blood to the brain. Maybe the tunnel that these people see is caused by something similiar when the heart stops beating and their is a lack of blood flow to the brain.

As for guys like the first one mentioned ... i assume he is just a little touched in the head so to speak.

seamus

The same kind of thing that causes you to have odd dreams after a heavy drinking session. Screwing with your brain's chemical balances will make you see weird ****. If you stop breathing and the heart stops pumping, waste builds up in your cells and your brain will go a bit weird and you'll start dreaming about pitchforks and floating before you expire.

There's a study ongoing which will actually put this whole thing to bed once and for all:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7621608.stm. We should have results sometime early 2012 I'd say.

fontanalis

Interesting that the hell he saw was more or less as it's portrayed in Western society. Doesn't oxygen starvation also cause osme kind of hallucinations?

MagicMarker

His heart stopped doesn't mean his brain did.

Nothing like a bit of hell to make you believe though, good to know he became a priest for the right reasons. :rolleyes:

sink

fontanalis wrote: »

Interesting that the hell he saw was more or less as it's portrayed in Western society.

Just guessing, but I take it he is a westerner? Why is it so surprising that it's the western version of the afterlife he witnessed. After all he was indoctrinated with western religion and no doubt is fully aware of western depictions of hell. It would be more interesting if he saw the Viking depiction of Valhalla, that would be something to take note of.

fontanalis

sink wrote: »

Just guessing, but I take it he is a westerner? Why is it so surprising that it's the western version of the afterlife he witnessed. After all he was indoctrinated with western religion and no doubt is fully aware of western depictions of hell. It would be more interesting if he saw the Viking depiction of Valhalla, that would be something to take note of.

Would be brilliant if he saw Tullamore!

Dades

Old thread (in case anyone's interested).

Metalfan

seamus wrote: »

The same kind of thing that causes you to have odd dreams after a heavy drinking session. Screwing with your brain's chemical balances will make you see weird ****. If you stop breathing and the heart stops pumping, waste builds up in your cells and your brain will go a bit weird and you'll start dreaming about pitchforks and floating before you expire.

There's a study ongoing which will actually put this whole thing to bed once and for all:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7621608.stm. We should have results sometime early 2012 I'd say.

yeah but i think we know no amount of scientific proof will convince some people.

condra

My mother once told me that she had a NDE when she gave birth to me (she was lucky to survive) It's a very touchy subject now that I'm an atheist!

The point about local culture is the most compelling debunker in my opinion.

Dave!

Study is still ongoing, but the experiences are certainly in the head.

Be skeptical when you hear these stories and documentaries. I've read a bit about 2 major ones (Pam Reynolds, and some nameless patient's story involving a red shoe), and there are natural explanations for them, and/or they're embellished, or else just have no basis so are for all intents and purposes made up.

hiorta

Wouldn't it be best to wait until you've had one before judging? That way, at least you'd know what you were speaking of.
Out of all such recorded incidents, virtually, if not all, folk who have had the experience still hold it to be very, very, real.
Still, if a classroom discussion can qualify and dismiss the unknown, well so be it.

www.nderf.org/

condra

hiorta wrote: »

Wouldn't it be best to wait until you've had one before judging?

Might be waiting a while. Anyway, I've read "Embraced By The Light", my mum had a NDE, plus I've taken Ketamine, and seen Flatliners with Kiefer Sutherland, though not all at the same time, interesting as the experience might be.

That way, at least you'd know what you were speaking of.

Do you need to take heroin to know it's a bad idea?

Still, if a classroom discussion can qualify and dismiss the unknown, well so be it.

Thanks. We also specialise in dismissing moving statues and talking snakes, among other things.

Dave!

hiorta wrote: »

Wouldn't it be best to wait until you've had one before judging? That way, at least you'd know what you were speaking of.
Out of all such recorded incidents, virtually, if not all, folk who have had the experience still hold it to be very, very, real.
Still, if a classroom discussion can qualify and dismiss the unknown, well so be it.

www.nderf.org/

Why would you need to have experienced one in order to dismiss it? Surely unbiased, objective analysis is the best way to determine the truth? Do you take every subjective experience and anecdote as gospel?

My name is URL

Your pineal gland releases a chemical called Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) before death which causes intense hallucinations .. it's been linked to near death experiences afaik.. as well as to people who believe in reptillian overlords, believe it or not!

Ush1

The skeptic guy in that debate thing with Deepak Chopra addressed this.

They can simulate it with those pods that whiz astronauts and stuff around in, they pass out and almost go catatonic, drooling etc... They describe seeing a white light and all the usual stuff.

As he says though, it's near death, not dead. Their is a big difference.

I think I would believe it if you could recall a detail from an out of body NDE... all the usual "I was looking at myself", well if you noticed for example someone coming in and then leaving who you wouldn't have seen otherwise, that might be more credible

ShooterSF

hiorta wrote: »

Wouldn't it be best to wait until you've had one before judging? That way, at least you'd know what you were speaking of.
Out of all such recorded incidents, virtually, if not all, folk who have had the experience still hold it to be very, very, real.
Still, if a classroom discussion can qualify and dismiss the unknown, well so be it.

www.nderf.org/

Ahh, logical malfunction. This statement hurts my brain tissue.

Scenario:
Person 1: Near death experiences prove the after life exists.
Person 2: Actually near death experiences are hallucinations brought on by your body as critical organs are failing and your brain, reliant on them, misfires. (simplified for story benefit)
Person 1: You can't say that until you have a NDE and base your decision on what happened.
Person 2: So I have to wait until my body malfunctions causing me to hallucinate and THEN judge NDEs not in the cold clear light of day with all my clinical senses available to me but rather using my senses while they were malfunctioning?

---

Surely this also means I should believe in the bogey man too. Afterall as a kid I did see him and he scared the crap out of me but then my 8 year old mind figured out, to the relief of much real felt terror, that it was clothes hanging off my wardrobe and I had hallucinated (well at the time the phrase "imagined it" was used). But if I was to judge the bogey man on my experience at that time he was VERY real. (also OT, is bogey man pc or should it be bogey person?)

Oh and what of my imaginary friend Tim-tim?

Blackhorse Slim

ShooterSF wrote: »

Oh and what of my imaginary friend Tim-tim?

If Tim-tim is a good Catholic then he is your guardian angel and ignoring him or denying his existence is a sin and you will go to hell.

However if he's not then he's the devil in disguise so you must ignore him and deny his existence or you will go to hell.

Hope this clears it up for ya

Metalfan

this might sound dumb but isn't it more likely that they are just plain old ordinary dreams?

I mean your going for an operation and your all worried about it, they put you under and you have a dream about dying. You wake up and think nothing of it. BUT say the same thing happens and then you are told "you actually flatlined during the operation there" .... some people could think "jesus that wasn't a dream afterall!" - hence near death experience

a bit less involved than lack of blood to the brain and halucinations etc but Occams razor and all that.

nozzferrahhtoo

Metalfan wrote: »

I was watching a thing on discovery where this guy claimed that during a life or death operation (he suposidely 'died' during it and was dead for a couple of minutes before being revived) that he had this vision of hell in which he was being tortured with pitchforks and all that. Apparently he was so effected by it that he became a priest

It is mere assumption on the part of the patient that the experiences occurred while “dead”.

Before and after a patient is clinically “dead” there is a massive amount of random activity in the brain... the randomness often being helped along by the massive amount of electricity we use in our revival techniques.

Just because the patient subjectively feels they were “dead” for some time and had a massive amount of experience in this time... does not mean that everything they experienced could not happen in mere seconds.

Do some dream research sometime as a side project for your self. You will find that often our most long, drawn out, elaborate dreams happen in mere seconds, often just before waking.

I myself have dozed off for a few seconds and have woken from dreams where I could not believe I had not been out for hours.