Cork Student Volunteers for IDF

OhNoYouDidn't

http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/aug/08/people-see-me-as-a-terrorist/

'People see me as a terrorist'
Cork student Cliona Campbell complains she is now victim of a 'hate campaign' after volunteering for Israeli Defence Force
Jennifer Bray


Campbell: 'huge interest in the Jewish people'
A 19-year-old Cork student who volunteered for the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) says she has become the victim of a hate campaign.




Cliona Campbell, who has just returned from two months working with the IDF, says she has received public abuse, emails and messages telling her to "keep her head down" after writing a piece for the local paper on her experiences.




"I came back after two months and wrote a piece on my experiences. Now I am getting hate mail and being targeted. I went into a clothes shop where I live and the security guard came up to me abusing me. My Facebook page link was posted online in a forum and I started getting emails telling me to keep my head down from now on. My friends started getting abusive emails soon after that too."




Campbell says she is upset at the personal insults that have also been sent to her.




"There were guys online as well saying that I was 'rough' in terms of my looks and bringing it all to a new, personal level as well. If I was a man coming back from being in the IDF, there would be none of that. That is the upsetting part."




She says most of the reaction has been because she spoke highly of her time with the army and maintains her own strong beliefs about their work.




"I got on really well with the soldiers. They were all there for their own reasons and had their own stories as to why they were there.




"I have a huge interest in the Jewish people and always have had so I had no hesitation about going out there."




Campbell joined the IDF after applying through Sar-El, a volunteering project that agreed to send her over to work for eight weeks.




"I took a crash course in Hebrew first and spent ages preparing. It was a massive culture shock, but very worthwhile. A lot of the days would be spent re-mantling guns and working with the soldiers out in the 42-degree heat".




She also joined a protest against the flotilla to Gaza in May during which the IDF murdered nine passengers on board one of the boats.




"I was a bit sad to be coming home, and now I've come back to all this discussion," Campbell says. "Some of the people writing to me and about me say they now see me as a terrorist and that they don't even see me as Irish anymore. I stand up for what I believe and I get hate mail and abuse, and I wouldn't mind if half of those people could back up what they are saying with a logical argument," she says.



August 8, 2010

----

Whatever about the pro's and con's of joining any foreign military, never mind one as contentious as the IDF, the levels of naivity eminating from this kid are quite frankly baffling. She joins the IDF during the passport scandal and flotilla massacre and acts surprised that she gets abuse and offended by comments about how she looked in uniform? Is she that far removed from reality or is this a cunning ruse?

Zulu

People are entitled to be idiots.

Byron85

She has the courage of her beliefs. Whether that is a good or bad thing is something else altogether though.


My own issues with her arise when she said there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, insinuated that Goldstone is a self-hating Jew and that Palestinians are naturally terrorists. Take this together with the fact that she was out protesting at the Turkish embassy, after the flotilla massacre, while holding a placard which says "Thank You Israel", it paints her in a rather non-sympathetic light.

wes

I think some of the abuse she is talking about was on AH on here, and tbh I don't think that had anything to do with her volunteering for the IDF, and that AH just being AH. Certainly, no one deserves abuse of any sort, regardless of the reasons.

However, some of what was said was not absuse of any kind and was valid criticism, and you have to be very naive to essentially volunteer to be a propoganda mouth piece, and not expect some criticism.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Byron85 wrote: »

She has the courage of her beliefs. Whether that is a good or bad thing is something else altogether though.


My own issues with her arise when she said there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, insinuated that Goldstone is a self-hating Jew and that Palestinians are naturally terrorists. Take this together with the fact that she was out protesting at the Turkish embassy, after the flotilla massacre, while holding a placard which says "Thank You Israel", it paints her in a rather non-sympathetic light.

I agree with all this. Though on the other hand I think she's a naive 19 year old who's a bit of an obsession with Israel. I think she's had enough punishment for joining now and people should leave her alone.

Byron85

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I agree with all this. Though on the other hand I think she's a naive 19 year old who's a bit of an obsession with Israel. I think she's had enough punishment for joining now and people should leave her alone.

Also some of her original article was plagiarised straight from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs website. It was only a few lines but she should have known better than that, plus I take issue with it being someone who considers himself somewhat of a journalist.

OhNoYouDidn't

wes wrote: »

I think some of the abuse she is talking about was on AH on here, and tbh I don't think that had anything to do with her volunteering for the IDF, and that AH just being AH. Certainly, no one deserves abuse of any sort, regardless of the reasons.

However, some of what was said was not absuse of any kind and was valid criticism, and you have to be very naive to essentially volunteer to be a propoganda mouth piece, and not expect some criticism.

I wasn't aware of the AH thread. If you are reading Cliona, it would be interesting to have you contribute here in a more moderated and sensible environment.

Byron85

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I wasn't aware of the AH thread. If you are reading Cliona, it would be interesting to have you contribute here in a more moderated and sensible environment.

She replied in the A.H thread.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=13667050#

This is one of my favourite comments.

· Are they in the right to routinely knock down houses with bulldozers?

This is not a sport, believe it or not, and the reason bulldozing random buildings sounds illogical is because it IS illogical when you strip it from the context in which it occurs. The fact is, there IS logic behind it and it’s not just Israel ‘being an asshole’ as some left wingers like to portray it as. Why risk the lives of their soldiers by throwing them into a situation where a terrorist has barricaded themselves in a house which is very likely to be rigged with explosives? These aren’t your average ‘family homes’ – these are the militant headquarters of terrorists, hideouts, and areas where rockets destined for Israel are constructed and launched from. It’s simply a waste of time and energy for the Israel army to be mowing over random houses for absolutely no reason.

Nodin

Byron85 wrote: »

She replied in the A.H thread.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=13667050#

This is one of my favourite comments.

Yeah.....Its mad how everytime theres a village bulldozed, a child killed or a petting zoo flattened, theres always a "terrorist" to blame. Or some other excuse.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/idf-destroys-west-bank-village-after-declaring-it-military-zone-1.303098

evercloserunion

Funny how there's no article in the Tribune about a Palestinian kid who was shot by the IDF complaining that he is the victim of a hate campaign.

What does she think war is, other than a fecking hate campaign? And she could have stayed out of it but she just had to get her hands dirty. Looking at what has happened to some Palestinians in Gaza I find it hard to get worked up about a couple of nasty comments on boards.

Wolfe Tone

Well I have zero sympathy whatsoever for her. She should have kept it under her hat.

BlaasForRafa

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I wasn't aware of the AH thread. If you are reading Cliona, it would be interesting to have you contribute here in a more moderated and sensible environment.

You're f**king kidding right? With all the hysterical anti-israeli ranting that goes on in the politics forum she would be better off staying away than have people haranging her for the noble choice she made.

OhNoYouDidn't

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You're f**king kidding right? With all the hysterical anti-israeli ranting that goes on in the politics forum she would be better off staying away than have people haranging her for the noble choice she made.

Noble my arse. It was a crude propaganda stunt that backfired.

If some of the comments attributed to her facebook on the AH thread are true, she is a very troubled and confused young lady.

But aside from that debate, are you as surprised as she is that it was an unpopular choice of holiday with her community?

Wolfe Tone

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You're f**king kidding right? With all the hysterical anti-israeli ranting that goes on in the politics forum she would be better off staying away than have people haranging her for the noble choice she made.

lol, just lol

Byron85

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

You're f**king kidding right? With all the hysterical anti-israeli ranting that goes on in the politics forum she would be better off staying away than have people haranging her for the noble choice she made.

No one here is being hysterical. Questioning someone's assumption of facts is not haranguing her.

I wouldn't call her choice noble. I'd just call it a choice and this is coming from someone who was looking into a career in the military.

Denerick

I seriously don't see the moral difference between volunteering for the IDF and volunteering for any other army of a western, secular democratic state, such as France. Unless of course the animosity from the rare case is generated by anti-semitism, and not some noble dedication to pacifism.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

I seriously don't see the moral difference between volunteering for the IDF and volunteering for any other army of a western, secular democratic state, such as France. Unless of course the animosity from the rare case is generated by anti-semitism, and not some noble dedication to pacifism.

Surprised it took 16 posts for someone to play the anti-semetic card. Pathetic.

Are you seriously going to argue that Israel is a secular state?

The comparison is presumably with the French Foreign Legion. While I accept they can be a moody bunch, what have they done recently that can be ranked with occupying land illegaly, dropping white phosphorous on schools, sniping at children, attacking aid convoys in international waters as well as enforcing an illegal embargo to collectively punish a fenced in civilian population?

Added into the mix are the dead Irish soldiers as a result of Israeli aggression into the Lebanon and the expulsion of an Israeli diplomat from Ireland for cloning our passports to commit murder. Relations with France are a touch more cordial.

She went out there for two months and then came back and participated in an orchistrated media campaign to soft sell the IDF. Hardly the same context as a professional soldier joining the likes of the Legion.

Denerick

yah, I was anticipating that.

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

I seriously don't see the moral difference between volunteering for the IDF and volunteering for any other army of a western, secular democratic state, such as France. Unless of course the animosity from the rare case is generated by anti-semitism, and not some noble dedication to pacifism.

Well if Denerick outlines what he thinks of those armies it may help......


If he condemns them all equally(or something like that) then he has a very good point.

BlaasForRafa

Denerick wrote: »

yah, I was anticipating that.

Indeed, this thread is degenerating into the usual anti-Israeli rants, which is presumably the reason it was created.

karma_

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Indeed, this thread is degenerating into the usual anti-Israeli rants, which is presumably the reason it was created.

Where are these mysterious anti-Israel posts?

Denerick

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Well if Denerick outlines what he thinks of those armies it may help......


If he condemns them all equally(or something like that) then he has a very good point.

I condemn and commend them all equally. I see as much point in an Irishman joining the armed forces of France as I would Israel.

Wolfe Tone

Denerick wrote: »

I condemn and commend them all equally. I see as much point in an Irishman joining the armed forces of France as I would Israel.

Make sure you don't mention an Irishman joining the BA, big can of worms


I agree, only army an Irish man should join is an Irish one, if he feels the need to join any army at all.

oscarBravo

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I agree, only army an Irish man should join is an Irish one...

There's only one.

Wolfe Tone

oscarBravo wrote: »

There's only one.

Hahaha, I meant the Defense forces.

Scofflaw

Denerick wrote: »

I seriously don't see the moral difference between volunteering for the IDF and volunteering for any other army of a western, secular democratic state, such as France. Unless of course the animosity from the rare case is generated by anti-semitism, and not some noble dedication to pacifism.

A moderately friendly reminder to only play the 'anti-semitism' card where it's actually warranted.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Nodin

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

........than have people haranging her for the noble choice she made.

And what "noble choice" was that, pray tell? Shuffling paper for a colonial army of a nuclear power, who occassionally stand around while their nuttier citizens destroy some dirt poor farmers olive trees?

Denerick wrote:

I seriously don't see the moral difference between volunteering for the IDF and volunteering for any other army of a western, secular democratic state, such as France.

You can't think of anything that the Israelis do that the French don't? (anymore, at least). Then I suggest you've reading to do.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/

http://www.btselem.org/English/Jerusalem/Index.asp

http://www.btselem.org/english/Hebron/Index.asp

http://www.btselem.org/english/Administrative_Detention/

losthorizon

I would say that Isael and its allies have been responsibel for the deaths of some Irish army deaths in Lebanon. Surely reason enough not to go? In 1982 Sean McBride found Israel responsible and its army responsible for the Shatila massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

Of course its the students decision. But remember to do all your research properly. Dont be used as a pawn by either side.

Denerick

Scofflaw wrote: »

A moderately friendly reminder to only play the 'anti-semitism' card where it's actually warranted.

moderately,
Scofflaw

How does this require a moderators intervention? I suggested that the key difference between people kicking up a fuss for an Irish person who joined the IDF and for one who might join in the Foreign Legion is that one nation has a majority Jewish population and one does not. Other moderators have commented on this thread since my comment, leading me to think that this is a biased political intervention, and not the impartial moderatorship this forum should strive to realise.

Good day, sir.

Denerick

Nodin wrote: »

You can't think of anything that the Israelis do that the French don't? (anymore, at least). Then I suggest you've reading to do.

http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/

http://www.btselem.org/English/Jerusalem/Index.asp

http://www.btselem.org/english/Hebron/Index.asp

http://www.btselem.org/english/Administrative_Detention/

Thanks for the handy links. I hadn't heard of Jerusalem or of the Israeli settlements before. You've just opened my eyes to a great big world of injustice I would have been incapable of discovering on my own.

I'm being sarcastic, if you're wondering.

Wolfe Tone

TBH Denerick I think it is akin to objecting to people joining the American army because of the US armies actions. I dont think it has much to do with religion.

CrackisWhack

I'm amazed that people still defend Israel, after all they have done, which is only making it through to mainstream media agencies in recent times. Their acts of violence are indefensible.

It's quite clear who the aggressors/oppressors are!

Denerick

CrackisWhack wrote: »

It's quite clear who the aggressors/oppressors are!

Hamas?

CrackisWhack

Denerick wrote: »

Hamas?

Very good! and predictable.

How many million Israelis are fenced into an area a tenth the size of wexford, in extreme poverty, with an embargo on food and medical supplies?

Wolfe Tone

CrackisWhack wrote: »

Very good! and predictable.

How many million Israelis are fenced into an area a tenth the size of wexford, in extreme poverty, with an embargo on food and medical supplies?

Well thats not quite accurate. Harshly limited I would say.

OhNoYouDidn't

Denerick wrote: »

How does this require a moderators intervention? I suggested that the key difference between people kicking up a fuss for an Irish person who joined the IDF and for one who might join in the Foreign Legion is that one nation has a majority Jewish population and one does not. Other moderators have commented on this thread since my comment, leading me to think that this is a biased political intervention, and not the impartial moderatorship this forum should strive to realise.

Good day, sir.

It requires moderation because its outrageously offensive and flammable to accuse people of anti-semitism with no basis. Not only does it demean the word so when real anti-semitism comes along you have cried wolf, its also intellectual vandalism.

The issue here is two fold. The appropriatness of an Irish citizen serving in an army that has killed many Irish soldiers whose diplomats we recently expelled and is engaged in some nefarious acts/ war crimes during her stint and secondly the reaction from her when she got challenged by the people of Cork. The religious basis or ethos of Israel has nothing to do with this debate i

Nodin

Denerick wrote: »

Thanks for the handy links. I hadn't heard of Jerusalem or of the Israeli settlements before. You've just opened my eyes to a great big world of injustice I would have been incapable of discovering on my own.

I'm being sarcastic, if you're wondering.

Two things - firstly its possible, though highly unlikely, that you hadn't heard of this. It would explain

I seriously don't see the moral difference between volunteering for the IDF and volunteering for any other army of a western, secular democratic state, such as France.

. Secondly, its considered bad manners to accuse somebody of "taking the piss" straight out, and against the charter to accuse somebody of trolling. As a result, I acted on the basis that the remotest possibility was true, even though I greatly doubted it.

Of course, thats based on the information at hand. If you'd care to spell out the similarities between current duties in the French Army and duties in the IDF, with reference to occupation and settlement, I'm sure you'll be given a hearing.

FlutterinBantam

Nodin wrote: »

. If you'd care to spell out the similarities between current duties in the French Army and duties in the IDF, with reference to occupation and settlement, I'm sure you'll be given a hearing.

Yes, on a separate thread ,though.

Nothing to do with the current topic under discussion, I would respectfully opine.

If a Cork student or any other student wants to volunteer for IDF duties, I would express the opinion that the matter is her own business.

Wolfe Tone

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Yes, on a separate thread ,though.

Nothing to do with the current topic under discussion, I would respectfully opine.

If a Cork student or any other student wants to volunteer for IDF duties, I would express the opinion that the matter is her own business.

Then why did she write an article in the paper about it? She put it out there.

OhNoYouDidn't

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Y
If a Cork student or any other student wants to volunteer for IDF duties, I would express the opinion that the matter is her own business.

She put it into the public domain, so she has to accept the consequences.

Not only did she write a series of 'look what I did on my holidays' pieces in the local rag, it appears the crayons were provided by the Israeli Ministry of Information.

Its fair game for discussion because she chose it to be. She can't unring that bell because it backfired.

FlutterinBantam

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

She put it into the public domain, so she has to accept the consequences.

Not only did she write a series of 'look what I did on my holidays' pieces in the local rag, it appears the crayons were provided by the Israeli Ministry of Information.

Its fair game for discussion because she chose it to be. She can't unring that bell because it backfired.

Looks like you have some issues friend.

A discussion, if you took the time to read the quote I referred to,between the relative merits of the French and Israeli armies and their attitude to their enemies is totally off topic.

Probably relevant in it's own thread, but not here on this one, my friend.

That's my opinion.

OhNoYouDidn't

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Looks like you have some issues friend.

A discussion, if you took the time to read the quote I referred to,between the relative merits of the French and Israeli armies and their attitude to their enemies is totally off topic.

Probably relevant in it's own thread, but not here on this one, my friend.

That's my opinion.

And you also stated that your opinion was this girls holiday was a private matter. So private she wrote a series of newspaper articles and then did an interview in the Sunday's about it.

You are loyal you zionists, I'll give you that.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Yes, on a separate thread ,though.

Nothing to do with the current topic under discussion, I would respectfully opine.

...it's a shame you didn't point that out to the person who raised the issue.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If a Cork student or any other student wants to volunteer for IDF duties, I would express the opinion that the matter is her own business.

Had the cork student remained silent about it, it would still be her own business. However, its in the public domain now.

meditraitor

I dont understand her reasoning for joining the IDF.

http://dublin.mfa.gov.il/mfm/Data/184077.pdf

here is the piece for anyone who want to read it, I still dont get it...

She talks about solidarity and yet she obviously hasnt got a clue about Isreal.

Ever since the age of nine, I have
been captivated by the Jewish people

What...... ? I would like to know how this happened..... your 9 FFS

Ren2k7

Imagine this was the 1980's and an Irish girl went to South Africa to spend 'a bit of time' with the South African Army. How do you think that would have been received back then and would anyone have commended her for those actions upon her return?

It's not about anti-semitism, it's about recognising that the Israeli government chooses to act like a dickhead towards the Palestinians and the rest of the world:

• Invading and annexing land in breach of the Geneva Conventions
• Repeatedly ignoring and defying UN resolutions in the Security Council and the General Assembly
• Carrying out extra-judicial killings in the occupied Palestine as well as in foreign countries
• The de-facto policy of apartheid with regards to the Palestinians

Maybe this Cork student should have done more research on what she was getting herself into before heading out. Or maybe, and more likely, she agreed with what the government of Israel was doing towards the victims of Palestine.

Denerick

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Imagine this was the 1980's and an Irish girl went to South Africa to spend 'a bit of time' with the South African Army. How do you think that would have been received back then and would anyone have commended her for those actions upon her return?

Are you comparing Israel with South Africa? The 20% of non Jews represented in the Knesset and who have equal rights would laugh their faces off at such an insulting comparison.

Shin Bet

So Just to clarify what is it exactly you are saying she did wrong?

Ren2k7

Denerick wrote: »

Are you comparing Israel with South Africa?

Umm, yeah!! I thought the tone of my post would have made that point painfully obvious. :rolleyes:

Denerick

..

g5fd6ow0hseima

Denerick wrote: »

Are you comparing Israel with South Africa? The 20% of non Jews represented in the Knesset and who have equal rights would laugh their faces off at such an insulting comparison.

Well I could say that both are instances where one section of society lords over another simply due to their own percieved basis of racial superiority. Palestineans are forbidden to move freely within the territory that they lived in for hundreds and thousands of years simply due to faith - whereas in SA, it was due to colour that blacks and coloured had certain borders - imposed by recent settlers who had the material capabilities to subjugate others.

Of this 20% of Non-jews in the Knesset, what exactly is the composition? Are they all Arab-Israeli or a collection of atheists, russians, arabs etc?

piby

If somebody wants to experience something then I say let 'em do it. The issue I take with this piece is that it's propoganda exercise. For somebody who is evidently a good journalist, having won various prizes and whatnot, I don't understand where this is coming from. To me it stinks of 'I'm going to do it because it's controversial' and there was no way she could have expected anything less than the reaction that she's recieved here. Her defence of the flotilla incident is laughable i.e. there were tears streaming down the leader's eyes because they had to fight back!

I don't think it was wrong of her to do it but the article smacks of a PR exercise for both her own career and the IDF.