What do you know about Michael O'Hare

Nulty

I was apprehensive about this when I first heard it but am kicking my self I didn't wade in like a dope and back them heavily in a double .

4 winners in 5 years for Michael O'Hare from some place near Dundalk, he was on Get On this afternoon on ATR and basically told the public his horses should win at Downpatrick - Turner Brown and Henro Boy. They both obliged after good runs at Galway. They were fairly short but looked the part.

After his conversation with Chapman someone sent an email in suggesting something interesting (to punters at least!) was going on with Mr. O'Hare. Chapman joked that he had more than the 4/5 horses he claims he has. It got me wondering then but after checking the results I'm intrigued. What's known about this fella?

dundalkbhoy

his auld fella owns bar one racing.

aw

Interesting article on them....

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/ohares-turnup-for-the-books-1937189.html

knighted_1

Nulty wrote: »

After his conversation with Chapman someone sent an email in suggesting something interesting (to punters at least!) was going on with Mr. O'Hare. Chapman joked that he had more than the 4/5 horses he claims he has. It got me wondering then but after checking the results I'm intrigued. What's known about this fella?

inacurate reporting on chapmans part i think -he has said he only has a few in training now cause its summer- he has 20 to race in the winter

knighted_1

http://www.irishracing.com/v5newsitem?prid=46914

plus last year he returned these in training

Montana Slim (IRE) 1- 5 (20%) 3.00 18553.50 11600.00 30153.50
Bale O'Shea (IRE) 1- 3 (33%) 5.00 7601.00 1785.00 9386.00
Sweet Shock (GER) 1- 6 (17%) -2.00 5873.50 1275.00 7148.50
Innbrodericksbar (IRE) 0- 3 (0%) -3.00 0.00 3060.00 3060.00
King Rufo (IRE) 0- 1 (0%) -1.00 0.00 1445.00 1445.00
Willie Martin (IRE) 0- 3 (0%) -3.00 0.00 1445.00 1445.00
Turner Brown (IRE) 0- 2 (0%) -2.00 0.00 1445.00 1445.00
Fane Oscar (IRE) 0- 2 (0%) -2.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Rubys Cove (IRE) 0- 1 (0%) -1.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Lord Rory (IRE) 0- 1 (0%) -1.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Sammy Pat (IRE) 0- 3 (0%) -3.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Bogus Dreams (IRE) 0- 1 (0%) -1.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Vincent Pipe (IRE) 0- 1 (0%) -1.00 0.00 0.00 0.00

Cantoris

Shrewd operation. They paid a good few bob for some of those horses they raced last season. They tend to run them on deep ground to get a favourable mark and then win on slightly better ground, depending on the horses of course.

Nulty

Thanks for the responses. It sounded like there was more to them than met the eye, so to speak.

knighted_1

Cantoris wrote: »

They tend to run them on deep ground to get a favourable mark and then win on slightly better ground, .

justify this comment

first winner they had was montana slim already had a mark from when larkin trained it but tracy owned it -won a couple of times on soft to heavy

next winners o hare had was 31 oct 2009 the famous gamble when hey backed the treble to win over 1.2 million

sweet shock -won a nhf race so no mark needed -on soft to heavy ,and irs previous run was on soft

bale o shea won a handicap hurdle on soft to heavy ,having it other runs on h,s,g,gs and the 2 previous runs it was 2nd maiden hurdle (achieved mark ) and 4th handicap hurdle at 2/1 and 3/1 respectfully

montana slim was the other winner to make up the treble again on soft to heavy (see above)

now henro boy won the other day a nhf race on good having run on fast twice gf.gs.gy

turner brown won on good ground in a maiden hurdle (no mark needed ) having finished 2nd 4 times and 4th twice out of nine races so i cant see how they were up to anything with this one either ?

thats all the irish winners -

look up the english 2 , one was first time out over fences

Wetherby gamble goes astray as four of five lose

By Colin Russell 7: 43PM 3 JUN 2010 AFTER an afternoon of intrigue the Wetherby gamble on five Michael O'Hare-trained Irish raiders fell apart on Thursday as the first four runners were all beaten.


However, the evening finished on a high for O'Hare as Bale O'Shea, who drifted out to 9-2 having been backed into 2-1 (from 8) during the day, landed the 2m6½f handicap chase to ensure connections did not return to Ireland empty handed.

Thetrainer's father, gambler and Bar One Racing bookmaker, Barney O'Hare said: "He's a lovely horse and it was a good performance first time out over fences. It sends us home on a happy note."

Turner Brown, Vincent Pipe, Willie Martin and Sammy Pat had all fallen by the wayside earlier in the card for the O'Hares with the latter two both being well beaten.

All five horses had drifted before the off following significant support earlier in the day as confidence in the gamble evaporated as the evening drew on.

Sammy Pat's price had collapsed to 3-1 (from 25-1), Willie Martin's to 4-1 (from 16-1), while Vincent Pipe shortened to 9-4 (from 10) and Turner Brown to 9-4 (from 11) during the afternoon, as bookmakers ran for cover following significant support in multiple bets for the five O'Hare runners. Some firms refused to take further bets on the Irish raiders.



Speaking after the first three losers Barney O'Hare, who successfully landed a coup on October 31, 2009 at Naas, said the bookmakers had "overreacted" to a number of Lucky 15 bets he had placed.

He told racingpost.com: "It was a massive overreaction on the part of the bookmakers, but we caught them in late October with a good one and they haven't forgotten.

"We had €1 each-way Lucky 15, quite a few of them, with some of the big firms, and the prices just collapsed. We've planned it for months, and admittedly some of the horses have beena bit disappointing.

"We scoped Sammy Pat after the first and he had mucus on his lungs, so that explains his poor run, but Willie Martin ran all right, he was up against some decent horses, and ran well enough.

"Vincent Pipe has been very difficult to train, he keeps going lame, so he did well enough to finish third.


Paddy Power: stopped taking bets



"It's been a bit of fun, and we thought most of them would run well, but the bookmakers certainly overreacted. They haven't forgotten us from last time - or the other Barney a three weeks ago!"

The worry in the bookmaking community had been clear earlier with a number of firms ensuring large liabilities were not built up.

Paddy Power of Paddy Power, who were the first to stop taking bets on the five, said: "We took half a million euros worth of liabilities, all in multiples, then raised the white flag. We're relieved we took evasive action when we did."

Ladbrokes spokeswoman Hayley O'Connor said: "We have certainly seen some bets that have attracted out attention and we are focused on them."

William Hill director of racing and PR David Hood said: "Our boys have traded them with caution and we were on the right side of them but as the prices have collapsed we've seen small business for them."

Nicola McGeady of Boylesports said: "We have taken plenty of multiples and in view of their source we took action quickly so as not to build up large liabilities."


so i really cant see where

"They tend to run them on deep ground to get a favourable mark and then win on slightly better ground, depending on the horses of course."

any winners they have had so far dont fall into this bracket

convert

Knighted, have you got a link for the above excerpt?

Cantoris

knighted_1 wrote: »

justify this comment

My comment was that they get favourable marks, not that they are hooky in any way. You can win and still get a favourable mark if conditions are not to suit. In fact, it's the best way to get a mark because the handicpper only puts you up max 7lbs for each win rather than 14-20lbs for one win if you're chancing your arm.

Take Sweet Shock who won a soft/heavy ground bumper on her second start. Then ran three times over hurdles on soft/heavy, dropped back into a bumper and then into a handicap hurdle on yielding ground where she achieved her highest RPR.

Montana Slim, by Accordion whose progeny like decent ground, has winning form from 2007 on good to firm. then spends a year racing on soft/heavy, admittedly winning once off 114. Goes on a summer break and comes back on good ground to finish third to thousand stars which we appreciate now was a great run and entitled him to win the next day on soft/heavy, but by the end of the season he was running his best race of the year, beaten 3 lengths in third at punchestown on good ground off 132.

Bale O'Shea won on heavy ground off 88 and ends up winning on good ground by 3 lenghts off 105.

I think they are a shrewd operation with nice horses, many of whom prefer good ground but are still able to win on soft ground becasue they have the underlying ability. They keep improving on better ground.

knighted_1

Cantoris wrote: »

My comment was that they get favourable marks, not that they are hooky in any way. You can win and still get a favourable mark if conditions are not to suit. In fact, it's the best way to get a mark because the handicpper only puts you up max 7lbs for each win rather than 14-20lbs for one win if you're chancing your arm.

Take Sweet Shock who won a soft/heavy ground bumper on her second start. Then ran three times over hurdles on soft/heavy, dropped back into a bumper and then into a handicap hurdle on yielding ground where she achieved her highest RPR.

Montana Slim, by Accordion whose progeny like decent ground, has winning form from 2007 on good to firm. then spends a year racing on soft/heavy, admittedly winning once off 114. Goes on a summer break and comes back on good ground to finish third to thousand stars which we appreciate now was a great run and entitled him to win the next day on soft/heavy, but by the end of the season he was running his best race of the year, beaten 3 lengths in third at punchestown on good ground off 132.

Bale O'Shea won on heavy ground off 88 and ends up winning on good ground by 3 lenghts off 105.

I think they are a shrewd operation with nice horses, many of whom prefer good ground but are still able to win on soft ground becasue they have the underlying ability. They keep improving on better ground.

serious laugh out loud at cantoris .

they done nothing with montana slims mark only bring it forward since the last trainer had him

SWEET SHOCK s mark? and you come back saying highest RPR -thats racing post rating nothing to do with a mark ,rpr is unofficial and nothing to do with favourable marks -actually ran in that handicap hurdle off 112 if you check and thats an official mark not a racing post rating


bale oshea won at 88 HURDLE MARK won off 105 first time out WITH A CHASE MARK - check the differerence and see what the irish handicapper did -gave him a mark of 109

knighted_1

convert wrote: »

Knighted, have you got a link for the above excerpt?

cant link you thru as it would go thru my account on the racing post -

go on to the trainer in the racing post and that article will be attached ,along with others

Cantoris

knighted_1 wrote: »

serious laugh out loud at cantoris .

they done nothing with montana slims mark only bring it forward since the last trainer had him

SWEET SHOCK s mark? and you come back saying highest RPR -thats racing post rating nothing to do with a mark ,rpr is unofficial and nothing to do with favourable marks -actually ran in that handicap hurdle off 112 if you check and thats an official mark not a racing post rating


bale oshea won at 88 HURDLE MARK won off 105 first time out WITH A CHASE MARK - check the differerence and see what the irish handicapper did -gave him a mark of 109

Not sure the point you are trying to make. Sweet Shock could not have an official mark in any of her three maiden hurdle runs. You know that. So I fell back on RPR as she ran prominently in all three maidens and as a comparison,it is reasonable to use. She achieved a much higher RPR in running in her first handicap than in her three maidens which suggests improvement. I think they have her reasonably handicapped starting off this season.

I agree with you on Montana Sim, they did bring it forward but they also tried to preserve his mark as much as they could by running him on soft ground for a year. He clearly improved again for good ground.

On Bale O'Shea, the horse horse has won on good ground with a mark higher than a soft ground win.

It strikes me that at least two of the above are more effective on faster than slower ground. You've taken the view that they improve them and it's just coincidence that improved ratings come from a change from soft to better ground. The form suggests they could well be better ground horses who have slowly moved up the ratings on soft ground. That's clever handicapping and using favourable marks. Most horses that win off higher marks are improvers, unless they've been pulled and been given a ridiculously low mark to start with. So yes, these horses could be improving and it's just a coincidence what ground they win on, but I believe they are being clever with them. Nothing wrong with that. As I said, a very shrewd outfit who know the time of day.

finbarrk

I think Barney was interviewed by Brian Gleeson during Galway, Brian complimanted him on how well they pulled off the gamble last year.

knighted_1

Cantoris wrote: »

Shrewd operation. They paid a good few bob for some of those horses they raced last season. They tend to run them on deep ground to get a favourable mark and then win on slightly better ground, depending on the horses of course.

this is the point of my posts that you are talking rubbish -you clearly state above that they "get a favourable mark" but when challanged you revert to racing post ratings which have nothing to do with a mark

you state also that they run on deep ground first (see above) and then win on better ground - look up the records and you will see ,as i have pointed out ,that that is untrue

you also seem to misunderstand a hurdle mark and how different it is to a chase mark and where the bands overlap -if you check that horses current hurdle mark www.turfclub.ie you will see this
bale o shea won a chase off a higher mark and nothing to do with its 88 hurdle mark


what annoys me most is that you run down other operations that are successful -now you might not be intentionally doing it but thats how your posts are coming across ,ref the paul magnier thread also

Cantoris

knighted_1 wrote: »

what annoys me most is that you run down other operations that are successful -now you might not be intentionally doing it but thats how your posts are coming across ,ref the paul magnier thread also

You've definately lost me now.

I accept I was working off memory re the favourable marks as I recalled them improving on better ground having run well on softer ground and thinking to myself they were being very clever (and well done to them for that). You do know you can win and still be on a favourable mark when conditions move further in your favour or do you disagree with that? I'm not going to bother with Sweet Shock or Bale O'Shea, we have a difference of opinion on that which won't be resolved here.

I don't see where I have "run down other operations". I think the O'Hare team is quite strong. They can train and place their horses well and are cleverly managing their horse's marks upwards. Unlike other trainers who might pull their horses, these guys let their horses run on their merits and engineer their marks upward through improvement on nicer ground. How is that running them down? I'm actually giving them the strongest complement you could give a trainer. The summary on the top of Michael O'Hare's picture would be "effective trainer with a small string of quality improving horses, well capable of placing horses and worth watching in the market".

As for Paul Magnier, I don't know him or whether he is a good trainer or not. Magnier had a point that Golan Go should probably have been withdrawn but to say the shenanigans in the stalls caused it to miss the break and run poorly does not tie with either his finishing position or how he missed the break in Galway. So not sure how I "run down other operations" here either when clearly the point is that he got upset because his gamble went astray. If Dermot Weld said what Magnier did about Golan Go, I would say the same about Weld. Would I be running down his operation?

Maybe you just misinterpreted things or trying to stir but I have no interest in running down any operations. I have an interest in what industry people say and do and if they step over what I believe is a mark I have no problem commenting on it. To assume this is running down an operation is ludicrous. In that case, may I run down Paul Nicholls by saying his running of Kauto Star in the James Nicholson followed by the Betfair Chase three weeks later was ludicrous. He shouldn't have gone to Haydock. Or Ruby remounting Kauto which was ludicrous too. But overall, they are a top notch pair. Or wasn't it stupid to bring Big Zeb to Sandown last year when clearly the Dial-a-bet was a better target!!

finbarrk

He had a double in Downpatrick last week. Katie rode both of them.

sonnky

knighted_1 wrote: »

this is the point of my posts that you are talking rubbish -you clearly state above that they "get a favourable mark" but when challanged you revert to racing post ratings which have nothing to do with a mark

you state also that they run on deep ground first (see above) and then win on better ground - look up the records and you will see ,as i have pointed out ,that that is untrue

you also seem to misunderstand a hurdle mark and how different it is to a chase mark and where the bands overlap -if you check that horses current hurdle mark www.turfclub.ie you will see this
bale o shea won a chase off a higher mark and nothing to do with its 88 hurdle mark


what annoys me most is that you run down other operations that are successful -now you might not be intentionally doing it but thats how your posts are coming across ,ref the paul magnier thread also

you show him knighted

convert

knighted_1 wrote: »

cant link you thru as it would go thru my account on the racing post -

go on to the trainer in the racing post and that article will be attached ,along with others

Ok, thanks.