More Catholic Church Self-Sabotage

Sykk

Source

An Austrian bishop has described a German music festival stampede where 21 people died as a sinful event and suggested the deaths may have been God's punishment for losing faith.


Bishop Andreas Laun indirectly linked 21 Love Parade deaths to God's punishment


Salzburg's Roman Catholic bishop, Andreas Laun, described the Love Parade and participation in it as "a rebellion against creation and against God's order, (which) are sins and an invitation to sin".
As well as the deaths, more than 500 people were injured when a lethal bottleneck formed as revellers tried to get in to the festival in the German city of Duisburg on July 24.
Writing on the German-language website Kath.net, Mr Laun warned against judging the dead.
At the same time, he indirectly linked the deaths to God's right to punish apostates - those who turn their back on the true faith.
The provocative comments are expected to draw outrage from victims' families and survivors.


Crime scene investigators traced outlines of where the 21 people died

The remarks from such a senior member of the clergy are also feared to draw the embattled church hierarchy into further criticism of its rigid attitude to modern society.
In recent months the church has tried to weather storms over successive child abuse claims, a lack of sympathy to predator priests' victims and a crisis of legitimacy.
A memorial service was attended by the German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, amid assertions that the parade would never be held again.

What a disgrace.. Do you not think they'd try stay out of the headlines for a while, amid all the other stupid things they've done?

OutlawPete

Nobody really cares what the catholic church think anymore.

Not anyone that matters in the great big scheme of things at least.

Fuck them at this stage.

galwayrush

I imagine the Imams of the world would have much the same opinion.:rolleyes:

Latchy

The Catholic church has long lost any credibility it had with the most dedicated members of it's church , the ordinary men and women who for decades ( if not centurys ) toed the line without any question . All that has changed forever .

You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

Sykk

Sykk wrote: »

Source

What a disgrace.. Do you not think they'd try stay out of the headlines for a while, amid all the other stupid things they've done?

They?

I doubt this fool speaks for the whole church.

Sykk

rarnes1 wrote: »

They?

I doubt this fool speaks for the whole church.

Actually, he's a bishop, so he's speaking on behalf of the church...

ElaElaElano

What an incredibly thick man. Honestly, you'd think the church would be doing everything they possibly could to win people back, groveling, pleading, begging. Appointing certain people with great PR skills to do the talking. Instead they keep digging themselves a hole so big they'll never fúcking get out of it.

It's almost like a sitcom at this stage, such is the sheer stupidity of these figureheads.

Sykk

Sykk wrote: »

Actually, he's a bishop, so he's speaking on behalf of the church...

Let's bash the bishop then.

Killer Pigeon

"It's all God this and God that. You seem to have more time for that God than you do for me, you bástard."

IvySlayer

Stephen Fry for Taoiseach!

starbelgrade

Priest: “How come I never see you in church anymore, Paddy?”

Paddy: “There are too many hypocrites at Mass these days, Father.”

Priest: “Don't worry, Paddy; there's always room for one more.”

Biggins

The gulf between them and the public is ever growing wider so when they come along and make these, once again out of touch, out of date, living in the past comments, part of me is glad but also worried and saddened.

* I'm glad because I realise they are further advancing their own demise as a now inept organisation.
* I'm saddened however because a lot, lot of folk have put their trust, love and heart-filled faith into those they once looked up to. Now they with every cock-up emerging from Rome, are being let down consistently and inevitability loss of faith and distance occurs to genuine decent people.
* I'm worried for some of those that are more of a spiritual nature, who are looking for their own inner and outer answers, will seek solace sometimes perhaps in other organisations that will even more badly let them down. The ones that also say/claim they have all the answers too (Scientologists, Moonies, etc).

Killer Pigeon

Latchy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

Wow, he's extraordinary well spoken, wish I had that skill.

ballsymchugh

Sykk wrote: »

Actually, he's a bishop, so he's speaking on behalf of the church...

he's speaking on behalf of himself really. he may think it's an educated opinion but that's what it is. the church is defined by all it's members.

Manach

So athesits get a free ride when they hold up examples such as the Tsuamai as proof of God's non-existance, then this is an acceptable use of a tragedy to make a point?

Sykk

Manach wrote: »

So athesits get a free ride when they hold up examples such as the Tsuamai as proof of God's non-existance, then this is an acceptable use of a tragedy to make a point?

How's this relevant? Also, how does this prove anything?

Riddle101

Latchy wrote: »

The Catholic church has long lost any credibility it had with the most dedicated members of it's church , the ordinary men and women who for decades ( if not centurys ) toed the line without any question . All that has changed forever .

You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

I love Stephen Fry even more for this. he's right as well.

Biggins

Latchy wrote: »

...You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church

Stephen Fry Video...

Brilliant speaker, clearly he knows his stuff, historical backgrounds and can lay this thoughts out clear like on a path that we can follow and understand.

I might/might not agree with him (I do for the record) but by heavens or earth, one cannot fail to see that the man is not one to be easily brushed aside as to the relevance of his words.

Fair play to him. Would have loved to hear the rest of his speech. Will go look up the other parts.

(Big thanks Lachy)

longshanks

Latchy wrote: »

The Catholic church has long lost any credibility it had with the most dedicated members of it's church , the ordinary men and women who for decades ( if not centurys ) toed the line without any question . All that has changed forever .

You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church
]

this is brilliant. stephen fry should be a lesson in school.

furiousox

If you no longer want to be a member of this vile organisation go here...

www.countmeout.ie

Pittens

Latchy wrote: »

The Catholic church has long lost any credibility it had with the most dedicated members of it's church , the ordinary men and women who for decades ( if not centurys ) toed the line without any question . All that has changed forever .

You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

Lol at Britain's smartest man not knowing a) what transubstantiation is and b) that far more than the Catholic Church is hardly the only church which believes in it. Most mainline protestant churches believe in it.

Pittens

The whole thing is a paiselyite lite wankfest.

eightyfish

6 Stephen Frys on the screen. As much as I like the guy, please stop re-posting the vid.

Pittens

eightyfish wrote: »

6 Stephen Frys on the screen. As much as I like the guy, please stop re-posting the vid.

The quote system does that automatically. So ask the admins to parse out youtube tabs in quotes.

Biggins

eightyfish wrote: »

6 Stephen Frys on the screen. As much as I like the guy, please stop re-posting the vid.

LOL Will take mine out.

eightyfish

Manach wrote: »

So athesits get a free ride when they hold up examples such as the Tsuamai as proof of God's non-existance, then this is an acceptable use of a tragedy to make a point?

No they don't, they only use that as an argument against a benevolent god, not a god in itself. Google David Attenborough's take on the matter.

eightyfish

Pittens wrote: »

The quote system does that automatically. So ask the admins to parse out youtube tabs in quotes.

Aye, but you can edit it out.

Biggins

The second part is even more truthful, shocking and accurate - part two below:

See 5.30 part about aids!!! Terrible ...as well as the secrecy Ratz' demanded in a letter mentioned in the first minute!

OutlawPete

Pittens wrote: »

Lol at Britain's smartest man not knowing a) what transubstantiation is and b) that far more than the Catholic Church is hardly the only church which believes in it. Most mainline protestant churches believe in it.

1) What makes you think that he does not understand the what 'transubstantiation' is? Seems to me he knows exactly what it is, or to be more accurate, exactly what the Catholic Church pertain it to be.

2) The vast majority of protestant churches reject 'transubstantiation', only believing that Christ's presence is evoked and that Christ's words at The Last Supper were to be taken metaphorically, so what other churches are you referring to above exactly?

bertie4evr

Pittens wrote: »

Lol at Britain's smartest man not knowing a) what transubstantiation is and b) that far more than the Catholic Church is hardly the only church which believes in it. Most mainline protestant churches believe in it.

A)The Catholic Church teaches that once an ordained priest blesses the bread , it is transformed into the actual flesh of Christ (but it retains appearance, odor, and taste of bread); and when he blesses the wine, it is transformed into the actual blood of Christ (though it retains the appearance, odor, and taste of wine).

B)The topic was whether the "Catholic Church could be a driving force for good in the World".

WebGeek

Latchy wrote: »

The Catholic church has long lost any credibility it had with the most dedicated members of it's church , the ordinary men and women who for decades ( if not centurys ) toed the line without any question . All that has changed forever .

You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

After seeing this video, I am surprised at the motion put and the unusual viciousness of Frys monologue. I really seen him in a totally different light which is a shame I hate to lose a (supposed) friend.

The debate might have well have asked, ‘Is humanity a force for good, or Russia, or the US, perhaps any amount of state lotteries.’ It would be absolutely impossible for anyone on the affirmative side of the debate to achieve a convincing win; even if Churchill and Oscar Wilde were elevated from the grave to support the motion the result would be the same.

Had the debate be on a specific aspect of Catholic Doctrine, the churches attitude toward reproduction, STDs, women priests and bishops or some such other relevant aspect of Catholic policy, then the formidable Mr. Fry might well have been appropriately employed to debate a topic of merit where the opposition would not have to defend the entire two thousand year history of the Church since Saul of Tarsus, but a real, tangible aspect of church behaviour and policy. As it was, the result was shooting fish in a barrel, rather impossible for the fish to defend themselves and not terribly exciting for the shooters or the spectators.

Again, the easy target of a devout people to it's beliefs unravel the true and nasty nature of the 'new dogma' that is now sweeping, overbearing, intolerable of those who differ from their artiest point of view.

Biggins

For those that watch the second part, watch the ending.
Even the bishop and the rest, at the end claps Stephens words.
I guess either he was just being polite or surprise, surprise (to himself), he noted too that Stephen actually made some very good points!

eightyfish

WebGeek wrote: »

As it was, the result was shooting fish in a barrel, rather impossible for the fish to defend themselves and not terribly exciting for the shooters or the spectators.

But when the fish dress themselves up in grand robes of God-given authority, and trounce around saying that you should behave in a certain way, they make themselves very easy to shoot.

amacachi

Biggins wrote: »

* I'm saddened however because a lot, lot of folk have put their trust, love and heart-filled faith into those they once looked up to. Now they with every cock-up emerging from Rome, are being let down consistently and inevitability loss of faith and distance occurs to genuine decent people.

Good.

* I'm worried for some of those that are more of a spiritual nature, who are looking for their own inner and outer answers, will seek solace sometimes perhaps in other organisations that will even more badly let them down. The ones that also say/claim they have all the answers too (Scientologists, Moonies, etc).

Stupid people in possibly being stupid shocker!


There's no argument, anyone still in the Catholic Church is an idiot. People who say "Oh well I don't believe this or that" get on my ****ing wick. Either you do subscribe to the scummy, child-raping corporation you're giving your money and time to or you don't.

yutta

Latchy wrote: »

The Catholic church has long lost any credibility it had with the most dedicated members of it's church , the ordinary men and women who for decades ( if not centurys ) toed the line without any question . All that has changed forever .

You may not be a fan of his but Stephen Fry sums it up all very well on You tube in the first of several videos on the Catholic Church

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEhtOhwL8xk

Anti-Catholicism. The last acceptable prejudice.

The Church doesn't approve of his unsanitary behaviour and it upsets him. Deeply.

Of course Jews and Catholics have a rather bumpy relationship. Populist internet ramblings built on popular misconceptions, rants full of emotive language, do nobody any good and undermine the sterling work that has been done in the area of inter-faith dialogue in the late 20th century. Work that is being continued under Benedict XVI. If rabble-rousing and opening half-healed wounds is his thing, I wish he'd crawl back under his rock.

furiousox

WebGeek wrote: »

Again, the easy target of a devout people to it's beliefs unravel the true and nasty nature of the 'new dogma' that is now sweeping, overbearing, intolerable of those who differ from their artiest point of view.

The church has made itself an easy target by abusing the power it held over this and other countries for far too long.
People are waking up, shaking off the shackles and realising we've been lied to misled and abused..taken for fools for years.
The church is losing power and control of the people it once dominated and it does not like it.

Biggins

WebGeek wrote: »

After seeing this video, I am surprised at the motion put and the unusual viciousness of Frys monologue.

Why?

There was a motion put forward - to which he answered.

* He answered it with historic data and explanation of background.
* He answered it with evidence such a a letter from the "office of the faith" and the present pope.
* He answered the motion speaking with personal experience of dealing with African countries leaders and actually meeting AIDS victims.

If viciousness = truths been spoken ...well they do say "truth hurts!"
Then by god, those truths should be heard a lot more often for progressive change to happen!

...The decenters to that train of thought can continue to keep their heads stuck in the sand and living in the past!
If they die off because of that outdated position, no loss.

Pittens

OutlawPete wrote: »

1) What makes you think that he does not understand the what 'transubstantiation' is? Seems to me he knows exactly what it is, or to be more accurate, exactly what the Catholic Church pertain it to be.

2) The vast majority of protestant churches reject 'transubstantiation', only believing that Christ's presence is evoked and that Christ's words at The Last Supper were to be taken metaphorically, so what other churches are you referring to above exactly?

Luthern's dont reject it. The idea is not that the "molecules" are changed is rubbish - how would anybody know about molecules in the middle ages?

The idea of transubstantiation in based on substance, which is non-material. Substance is a greek philosophical idea. The substance of something can change without the material changing. You can argue with the greeks, but nobody thinks that molecules are changing.

The whole thing - including the idea that the Catholic causes Aids in British Africa is a strongly nationalistic British minority bullying.

bytey

Ahhhhh, the RC Church,

Hatin Women
and raping children
at an old building near you , for two thousand years

They should really buy up the Stella Lager company and re package it .

Pittens

Biggins wrote: »

Why?

There was a motion put - to which he answered.
he answered it with historic data and explaination of background. He answerred it with evidence such a a letter from the "office of the faith" and the present pope.
He answered the motion speaking with personal experience of dealing with African countries leaders and actually meeting AIDS victims.

If viciousness = truths been spoken ...well they do say truths hurts!
Then by god, those truths should be heard a lot more often for progressive change to happen!

...The decenters to that train of thought can continue to keep their heads stuick in the sand and living in the past!

The Catholic Church has done an amazing job of causing Aids in the (largely protestant part of the) old British Empire

British nationalism is extreme. Invade a continent, and blame a long despised minority religion in your country for the mess you make.

Aids in Africa seen here, runs at 20-25% in the Southern Tip. That is clearly where the British Empire was concentrated ( but also on the beleagured Eastern Rim).

As seen from the list of Catholic majority countries, it is the Catholic countries surrounding the British Imperial parts of Africa ( compare with the Aids chart) where Aids fall from about 25% to 1-5%. A clearly significant drop. A modicum of historical knowledege and a knowlegde of where in Africa Aids was concentrated would have helped here.

England's smartest man wasnt up to that task.

Pittens

Anti-Catholicism. The last acceptable prejudice.

Acceptable by nationalist biogts in a country which banned Catholicism for centuries.


Notice the way that Paisley Fry sneered the word Pole.

yutta

Pittens wrote: »

Acceptable by nationalist biogts in a country which banned Catholicism for centuries.

Take the NI rant elsewhere please.

IvySlayer

Pittens wrote: »

The Catholic Church has done an amazing job of casusing Aids in the old British Empire largely protestant.

British nationalism is extreme. Invade a continent, and blame a long despised minority religion in your country for the mess you make.

Brits invaded, but at least they were honest about it.

The Church take the sick and needy and start spouting their venom. They start changing society for its own greedy needs. They start dictating what people can and cannot do, they turn sex into a dirty sin, they tell you condoms are evil. I could list a million more things. Anyone who disagrees with them is then ridiculed/burned at the stake.

And they do it in the name of 'faith'

storm2811

Oh ffs,ANOTHER religion thread,although it's just more religion bashing than actual discussion of the subject.

yutta

storm2811 wrote: »

Oh ffs,ANOTHER religion thread,although it's just more religion bashing than actual discussion of the subject.

Agreed.

I think AH perusers should really examine the many popular misconceptions being bandied about and look at news snippets they pick in the popular press with a more critical eye.

IvySlayer

storm2811 wrote: »

Oh ffs,ANOTHER religion thread,although it's just more religion bashing than actual discussion of the subject.

Yup!

It's not like religion is everywhere, spouting their ****e.

Biggins

yutta wrote: »

Take the NI rant elsewhere please.

I have to agree. Thats a whole big issue itself - deserving of another thread so sidetracking won't happen?

WebGeek

amacachi wrote: »

Either you do subscribe to the scummy, child-raping corporation you're giving your money and time to or you don't.

Typical response to this kind of debate- you defecate on your own argument.

furiousox

yutta wrote: »

Anti-Catholicism. The last acceptable prejudice...

What's your issue, prejudice?
The RC church has plenty of that.

storm2811

IvySlayer wrote: »

Yup!

It's not like religion is everywhere, spouting their ****e.

That's a nice open minded comment.

bertie4evr

yutta wrote: »

Anti-Catholicism. The last acceptable prejudice.

What about prejudice against homosexuals, women and people of different beliefs?