GROSS MISCONDUCT?? COULD THEY DO THIS TO ME??

pooli1986

Hi people.

I had beed layed off from my job and reason was gross misconduct. I dont feel like i did something wrong. I feel like rather i try to give my soul to company but get nothing back.

Explanation of reason sent to my sols, please read and tell me what do You think:

Your client was dismissed as a result of his insubordination towards the mamagement. Your client in the pas, both verbally and also on one ocassion by e-mail to management informed them of an intention to leave company if he was given redundancy payment. Your client had indicated that was his intention to set up a business an he appared to show no wish to remain in the employment.

The standards of your client work within ... were noted to have deterorated over the past twelve months. Your client took days off work sick leave on no more than 20 days in 2009. Your client also requested to know from the management if he could get redundancy payment if he left the employment. Your client indicated that it was not worth his while attending work as he would earn more by claiming social welfare and would not have to pay the costs of attending work.
It was noted that your client was attending work late on regular basis in December 09. It was also noted by management that your client was on regular
occasions missing from his desk during office hours and could not be located. It was also noted that your client attention to his work was deteriorating significantly in Dec 09. It was made clear by your client that he wanted to leave the employment and continually requested to know if he could get redundancy if he left. Your client was aware that if he left his employment of his own volition that he would not be able to claim social welfare and he indicated this to management.

In January 2010 our client noted that your client attitude and demanor towards management and staff had deteriorated significantly. In January 2010 your client attended at work late began to demand anuual leave where he had not worked up the time to take the leave. It appeared clear that your client was seeking to force our client to dismiss your client.

It was clear to our client that your client continued and deliberated failure to adhere to the rules and regulations of our client was done in a systematic manner that was completely unacceptable and showed insubordination to the management of our client. Your client insubordination was according to our client simply a means by which your client ws seeking to be summarily dismissed. This is wat occurred to his gross misconduct.

They just making story correct for them no matther what the thrue is. I was working hard and even I was expecting to get more dutes to cover within couple of months but they never intend to rise my salary. They was expecting me to work for 4 people with the same salary when i was starting.

I dont know what to think about all that.

Regards

ANXIOUS

Well if its all true, id say that they were right to let you go. If you were right you should be making more money now on social welfare.

michael999999

if this is true i wouldnt blame them for sacking you,if you were working for me i would do exactly the same.what did you expect?

pooli1986

Iv never made them to pay me redundancy payment. I know the rules when redunandcy payment is issued. When I was missing from my desk i was in toilet or other room where I had another job to do as I was working on two positions in the same time. I was doing my job wery well as they even said.
Volume of work i was getting was realy high acording to the level when i was starting. I was getiing most likely the same amount of money for more work done. I even used to translate phone call and paper work from clients that didnt speak english but the spoke my native language (polish)
In december i got extra job to sort paper work from previous years and send them to archive also my regular work. I couldnt manage. I used to work on my breaks. They were happy i wasnt.
December was month where snow falls. I was late few times allright but because of the weather outside and other circumstancys.

There was not possible to claim for social welfare eather when I got dissmised or when I would leave company by my own will.

I didnt do nothing wrong to any body I never said bad word or even punch. I use to come sober to work full motivated. I had to be always ready while people working for the same money cleaning dishes hadnt to care about nothing more than ceap dishes clean.

T-Square

20 days sick leave, really?

Hard to believe to be honest. Was it all certified by a doctors note?

T-Square

pooli1986 wrote: »

It was clear to our client that your client continued and deliberated failure to adhere to the rules and regulations of our client

Please explain what they are trying to say?

pooli1986

i had suspicion of swine flue these days, I had paper from my GP. They even let me go home when i came back after two weeks for another one because one girl was pregnant. I was realy sick as never in my life. All documented by my GP. I got paid for thoes days from company.

michael999999

are you one of these workers that has an excuse for everything?

pooli1986

Originally Posted by pooli1986
It was clear to our client that your client continued and deliberated failure to adhere to the rules and regulations of our client
Please explain what they are trying to say?

If You dont know why would I ?? They probaly dont know what does it means

pooli1986

You see michael999999 I knew what i was doing in my work

ANXIOUS

pooli1986 wrote: »

Originally Posted by pooli1986
It was clear to our client that your client continued and deliberated failure to adhere to the rules and regulations of our client
Please explain what they are trying to say?

If You dont know why would I ?? They probaly dont know what does it means

It means that their solicitor wrote to your solicitor and said that it was clear to the company you didnt follow the rules and regulations. Did you get a contract when they hired you?

pooli1986

Yes I had permament contract

pooli1986

If they wasnt happy with me, should they not give me a written worning for my lates or any issues, and then If im not fixing my self let me go?? simple as that.
By my opinion gross misconduct is only when you do searous thing not just that someone wasnt happy that you trying to fingh for yours.

penexpers

Do they have an e-mail from you that states (or even implies) that you would leave if given redundancy payment?

pooli1986

they say that they have. Iv never made them to give me redundany payment. Its a long storry from early 2009 when we were facing reductions in company. I stayed. I was sure that they will let me go as im from Poland so I asked them probably in what cicumstances i can be entytled to get redundancy payment. It was cloes to that.
It was never my intention to leave my company as i saw future in there but money was the problem and my brain facing overloading of work.

pooli1986

after all these informations do You still think they had right to put me on GROSS MISCONUCT and fired my just like that after 3 years from my life hard work for them where they left me with unpaid loan, credit card and my home rent, car insurance tax, exct and all my expenses where all my money I used to spend in Ireland paying all taxes and fees??

bad2dabone

if what they say is true you deserved to be fired, I'm sorry to say. If what they say is false you'll have to take them to court. Simple.

pooli1986

they can say enything matther is what they can profe in court. Iv never get written worning to any offence from the list so nothing is real in legal way. Im saying the true 100% true. I can assure all of You.

I think if they could let me go by the words from the list( if would be true) but not the way they did. I mean they should follow procedures or Im wrong. For me iv never did nothing what could be taken as gross misconduct

T-Square

In summary, it sounds like you sniffed around for voluntary redundancy, which is perfectly acceptable.

You were sick certified by a doctor, which is okay too.

Can you please tell us what you did, or if you didn't do anything, please tell us what your employer is trying to say you did.

Gross misconduct is defined as follows, and you can be expelled immediately for it.

A proven crime in connection with employment, such as theft from the employer, vandalism, arson or assault of an employee. A claimant determined to have been discharged for Gross Misconduct is not entitled to use wages earned from that employer to establish a claim for unemployment benefits.
detr.state.nv.us/uiben/terms.htm

The first sentence doesn't make a lot of sense

Your client was dismissed as a result of his insubordination towards the management. Your client in the past, both verbally and also on one ocassion by e-mail to management informed them of an intention to leave company if he was given redundancy payment.

You need to tell us exactly what they are referring to when the say insubordination, which in and of itself is not grounds for firing someone for gross misconduct.

And the intention to leave if given redundancy payment is silly, what else would you do if given redundancy money?

pooli1986

to be honest i dint do nothing what could be taken as gross misconduct. Honestly.

There way sytuation when I was expecting delivery. It was a parcel from USA with cosmetics for my mom to re sell down in Poland as she is running online shop down there. I asked for a half day off to collect it. No problem I got it. The other day snow block all the roads so we all left company at 13:00 as im remember. my parcel didnt arrived because of this. I didnt take that as a half day. Why would I? The next day or so I asked to get one more time. I was facing negative answear from my supervisor. She told me that she asked main manager and he said no. She knew that for me is maximu important as this was for my mom and i was waiting so long and spend lots of money for this. I wrote her email that im not happy at all. Before when i asked for any time off i could get it and i had to work that up. I said that before was everything cool and it was worth for me to work for such kind of money but when everthing is changing is not any more. Iv never use any bad words , everything polite. I came late the next day. She told me before that if i come late again i get erbal, written and dismissal. I asked polite if i can get written worning. She disagreed. And thats how it starts probably. Because of my supervisor i guess.

T-Square

Your English makes it difficult to understand your posts, so I might be wrong in saying this.

Sounds like you were given a half-snow-day,
which you tried to use to pickup your parcel,
which didn't arrive.

You requested permission, but were denied more time to pickup the parcel
at a later date.

So you then picked up the parcel the next morning,
which resulted in you arriving late,
which resulted in your being threatened with a verbal/written warning.
If you didn't pickup the parcel, you would lose the parcel, correct me if I am wrong.

I'd be inclined to think your employer is being inflexible.
My postie won't deliver to my house, and it is very inconvenient.

I suggest you contact www.employmentrights.ie

Merch

If what you describe is accurate it sounds like they have been quite unreasonable and they will have to have proof to let you go as you describe.
Gross Misconduct is, theft, assault (or possibly the threat of it) or some severe breaking of the rules, being late shouldn't constitue gross misconduct.
It sounds like they are being difficult, but possibly you have given them too much information, maybe there was a miscommunication but that still isn't gross misconduct. I think if you follow this up they will have to prove themselves. I have dealt with difficult employers, well certain levels of management and have met some nasty managers at a low level that think they are gods, if you feel you are right I would push back.

the groutch

so you wanted a 1/2 day off, and then another day off, just to get a parcel for you mom's online shop?
so her business was suddenly more important than the one you were working in?

looksee

Sounds fairly convincing to me, except that either your copy typing isn't up to much or they have rather illiterate solicitors.

What point are you making, or denying? They seem to have a fairly substantial list of issues, your claim that you were supposed to be doing the work of four people doesn't really have anything to do with anything they have said.

Further, you have a solicitor. If s/he has advised you that the letter appears to be justified, then there isn't a lot we can do to advise you any better. What is your argument?

pooli1986

sory for my english. Im trying my best. I havent sleep much last night.

Yes You got it right. With one exception. When i cam late the other day i wasnt collecting parcel. I just attend late for some reason, dont remember why now. I asked if I can get
worning because i deserve it, She deined to do that so.

Finally parcel arived at company address.

All story about parcel started because the other day iv been told by her that i can use business address for my private reasons. But leater she didnt have any objections.


Iv already applyed to EAT but iv been told that i have to wait minimum 48weeks for hearing. It drives me creazy because i dont have reference my work history i dirty and i have unpaid loan and cc.

bbam

the groutch wrote: »

so you wanted a 1/2 day off, and then another day off, just to get a parcel for you mom's online shop?
so her business was suddenly more important than the one you were working in?

Bingo !! You only had one job that paid, it should have been top priority or you should have expected things to start going wrong..

pooli1986 wrote: »

I said that before was everything cool and it was worth for me to work for such kind of money but when everthing is changing is not any more

I would take this to mean that if you got everything your own way you are happy, but if the company wants to call the shots your not happy with your pay. Remind me who worked for who ??


To be honest with the jobs market the way it is you were foolish to push things so far...

The company has no interest in your mothers business and it could be considered a conflict of interest since you gave it priority over your own job..


You chanced your arm and got their backs up... put up with the consequences :rolleyes:

pooli1986

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055992802 please follow

pooli1986

FAO administrator : pleas close that tread , thanks

T-Square

Give the guy a break, his English isn't great, and you are assuming the worst.

Basically, he works for an a$$hole, and gets paid a pittance, that is why he is carrying debt.

He and his mother are desperately trying to be industrious, he has even bothered to learn the language. It is irrelevant to point out that it was his mothers parcel, it could have been something for him. It could have been some clothes or contact lens.

When the employer was flexible and not on a power trip [or actively looking to reduce headcount without paying redundancy]
his working conditions and low pay were acceptable,
but he would (and has said to employer) take voluntary redundancy payment if it was available, as there had been redundancies historically.

Nera are mega busy hence the one year wait, but it will be worth the wait, as you have a rock solid basis for unfair dismissal.


This is not a legal opinion and cannot be construed as such.

God speed.

pooli1986

hold on. the story with my parcel wouldt show up if not my supervisor whom advices me that i cant use business address for my reasons. I could normaly get parcel there and i never would aske for half day.

rpmcs

on info given there is no grounds for GROSS MISCONUCT, wait for hearing and screw them!!

Merch

Again, my interpretation of gross misconduct would be assault, theft or for example representing yourself as being present in work when not there (or similar) being late is not gross misconduct.
That doesnt cover it all but if you didnt assault anyone (or threaten it) or steal stuff, if you didnt say you were in work when you were not then its not gross misconduct to me.

T-Square

Perhaps you overlooked post #19, which provides a legal definition of gross misconduct.

pooli1986

thanks @all for their opinion. will see how it goes. i dont take that to personal i just want justice and be treated with respect as i treat others in good sentence of this word.
thanks again

looksee

Why not close this thread, since the other one has apparently sorted it to your satisfaction?

By the way, I wonder why the solicitor did not query the 'gross misconduct' definition?

oleras

T-Square wrote: »

Perhaps you overlooked post #19, which provides a legal definition of gross misconduct.

In the state of Nevada...

dudara

Threads merged. Please do not create duplicate threads in future.

dudara

T-Square

oleras wrote: »

In the state of Nevada...

u r cretinously pedantic

dudara

T-Square Infracted.

dudara

Shelflife

"basically, he works for an a$$hole, and gets paid a pittance, that is why he is carrying debt."

"He and his mother are desperately trying to be industrious, he has even bothered to learn the language. It is irrelevant to point out that it was his mothers parcel, it could have been something for him. It could have been some clothes or contact lens."

From my reading of the situation he is trying to force the employers hand into forcing him to either fire him or lay him off, the fact that he is in debt is nothing to do with the employer but to do with then fact that the OP spent more than he earned.

he and his mother can be as industious as they want as long as its in their own time. he is paid to be at his place of work at a particular time not to be off collecting parcels.

the op may well get the judgement in the EAT as the employer doesnt appear to have followed the basic steps in a discplinary procedure.

shoegirl

It would be expected that unless the OP actually did something that filled the definition of gross misconduct he should verbal and written warnings.

ERA would probably find the employer to be at fault on this, but it really does sound like the employee wasn't very interested in working.

Sikie

Employer may be procedurally unfair if they are using your past record which was not dealt with prior to the dismissal but there maybe a case around gross misconduct.

Does contract give examples of conduct leading to immediate dismissal?

Could your activities at work around your "other business" be demonstrated to be mis-use of company resources?