The thread about the 19 years Cork was closed, But I still would like to add

The Israeli · 07-08-2010 6:09pm #1

Hello to you all. First of all let me introduce myself. I’m a 27 years old Israeli man. I served in the Israeli army for 3 years as it’s of every citizen’s duty in a combat unit. Most of my service I spent in the Gaza strip previously to the Israeli withdrawal in 2005.
I’m not here to convince those who have made their mind. I’m here to give another outlook for people that want to hear both sides from my experience and my point of view..
I know that people don’t like to read long stories, so I’ll start from the end. Yes, I know Cliona in person. Yes, I think she is biased a little bit, and didn’t tell the balanced version of the story in the paper, and that what I think which annoys most of the readers.
First of all the recent events mentioned over here: The flotilla, the blockade on Gaza and operation Cast Lead (2008). After that I will talk about the history that led us to the current situation and discuss about the right and wrong solutions to that.
Flotilla – In its basics it has a good cause – to help the poor and needy people in Gaza. Let’s say that’s it is who they are. Most of the people on boards of those ships were peace activists. But, there was a large group on Navi Marmara of IHH activists which hasn’t come there to deliver aid alone.
IDF chose its’ Navy seals unit to storm that ship. The soldiers were equipped with paint ball guns for intimidation and pistols as last resort defense weapons. As the first soldier landed from the chopper he and his followers got attacked by people from this group by varies means as: metal poles, knifes, axes and by gun fire too (shells of guns which don’t belong to the IDF guns were found, and there were eye witnesses but you can dismiss it for this discussion).
This operation was illy prepared by IDF and turned into a life threatening situation for the IDF soldiers.
In addition several of the soldiers were taken as hostages onboard that ship and rescued by their fellows.
You can see it on this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0
For saving their lives the soldiers had no other choice but to open fire from their pistols which led to a bloodshed. How many of the normal people wouldn’t want to save their lives by ALL means when they are attacked by a mob that some of it really want to KILL them?! The use of guns in the case was highly legitimate on my opinion.
Here comes the question: Why not to allow the aid without resistance in the first place?
Answer: As you all know, Gaza strip is under a blockade. The reason for this blockade is to decrease the ability of Hamas to arm itself and attack Israeli civilians and its’ armed forces. Legitimate for the Israelis, no?
Gaza strip civilians suffer because of that and a lot. I fully admit that. However they do get food and medicines through the land passages that under the Israeli control. Israel has offered in many times and still offers to the organizers of the flotillas to deliver their goods through these passages after checking them by the military forces.
Israel claims that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza and that Gazans get enough of basic needs. Gazans claim that it’s not true. The truth is unclear but let me ask you: have you ever seen pictures of starving Gazans like you see in pictures of starving Africans? I haven’t seen. You can prove me wrong if you can. I agree, they don’t enjoy of a big variety of goods and in some cases without a real justification like the forbiddance to allow in coriander (sounds funny), but they are not starving!
In addition they manage to smuggle in goods through the underground channels from the Egyptian border and provide by themselves some goods. Just google “market in Gaza” and see the images.
The aim of that flotilla was drawing attention to Gaza by all means. Including violence and de legitimating Israel to defend itself.
If they want to just supply the goods, they could do it by the Israeli controlled land passages.
What do Gazans try to smuggle in that Israel is afraid of: all types of explosives, rifles and even industrial materials that can be used for building weapons and weapon factories.
An example to a ship which carried weapons that caught by Israel in 2002:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az1HW0sGkEo

What led to operation cast Lead and why so many Palestinians got killed?
First of all, I’m sorry for any innocent person that gets killed in a war zone. Whether it’s an Israeli or a Palestinian. As some people before me wrote, Israel launched is attack after a massive rockets attack carried out by the Hamas and some other military organizations on its cities after the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas was over. Israel tried in a diplomatic way to prolong it, but Hamas thought it could brake the blockade that way. Israel had no choice but to launch the attack, because removing the blockade was not an option due the reasons I have mentioned earlier.
Hamas was well prepared for that. It set explosives in schools, Hospitals, peoples’ homes and Mosques. It dug tunnels beneath streets and homes. It prepared many traps for the Israeli soldiers in hope of killing and capturing them.
However, the operation was well prepared, and Hamas didn’t manage to carry out most of its plans. Most of the IDF soldiers that were killed were killed by friendly fire. And it brings me to another issue: Battle mistakes:
As you know, Gaza is the most dense place on earth. Taking into account all explosive traps that Hamas prepared Israel estimates that about 1/3 of the killed Palestinians were innocents.
It may sound sad, but that’s a good rate. For people that haven’t been in a war, it’s something that is hard to understand. Just try to imagine the narrow streets, the people that don’t look like terrorists but can draw a gun at every moment. Hamas used Ambulances to transport its armed forces from place to place. They took cover in people’s houses and shoot from there and launched rockets from people’s back yards.
I can go on and on, but that’s not the point. IDF fights with 3 principles: To complete the mission, protect it’s soldiers, protect innocent population.
The mission was to “calm” the Hamas and force it to agree to a cease-fire. Israel had a few casualties and sadly about 400 hundreds innocent Palestinians lost their life. But if the alternative to that is non stop rocket attacks on Israel and our lose of lives.
I prefer my own people. It makes sense, isn’t it?! Why won’t you blame Hamas for the outcome of that?
The fact that they are a weaker force doesn’t give them the legitimation.
Last thing about cast lead and other operations. Soldiers who do crimes like unjustified shooting, stealing from people and get caught for that stand for a trial. They don’t always get caught and sometimes the punishments for that are insufficient. I agree. We aren’t perfect. But, and it’s a huge but –
doing those crimes is forbidden by the Israel laws. Do you think Hamas has the same laws?! Of course not. It’s within their formal policy to kill Israelis. It’s their “fight for their freedom”.
The Israeli policy is to attack their fighters during which innocent people can be killed, compared to the Hamas policy which is to attack military and civilian targets. A huge difference in morals.
I’ll write another post tonight about the history that brought Israel to this day and try to answer on questions like whom this territory belongs to.
p.s because that the previous thread was closed I will post another post only if people here would like to read it.
Thank guys

Biggins · 07-08-2010 6:12pm

Fcuk me! I'm blind!
Appreciate the detailed post but more paragraphs with the greatest of respect.

Nodin · 07-08-2010 6:14pm

They have paragraphs in Hebrew, I thought.....

oisinmc14 · 07-08-2010 6:14pm

they see me trolling?

bobblepuzzle · 07-08-2010 6:14pm

Isreal shouldn't exist imo tbh

jd007 · 07-08-2010 6:14pm

I know there's a feedback thread about this but fuck it

tl;dr

FearDark · 07-08-2010 6:15pm

.

mikom · 07-08-2010 6:17pm

The propagandist doth protest too much, methinks.

Augmerson · 07-08-2010 6:18pm

I heard that the Israeli government had asked Israeli's to go on foreign websites and give "their" side of the story so as to counter the bad publicity following the attack on the Flotilla. Well gentlemen, here it is.

http://giyus.org/