Barriers for Hill 16!

dcr22B

Just heard that it was announced on the Des Cahill sports show there they are putting 2.8 metre tall barriers around Hill 16 to prevent pitch invasions.

Great stereotyping there, it's not like spectators in the stands invade the pitch either and it's easier to invade from the Lower Cusack/Hogan than Hill 16.

unknown13

Dublin seem to be the problem. OK, then GAA who contested the Leinster final?

Syferus

Think of it as the GAA's attempt to help stave off obesity.

dcr22B

Syferus wrote: »

Think of it as the GAA's attempt to help stave off obesity.

You can prove your fitness by climbing over them

Clemon

Bastards ..

copacetic

unknown13 wrote: »

Dublin seem to be the problem. OK, then GAA who contested the Leinster final?

I don't think it's anything to do with Dublin, the break in the steward line keeping people off the pitch always happens at the Hill due to force of numbers. Then they go to plan B and let everyone on.

If they prevent the break in the line at the Hill they'll likely be able to keep people off the pitch altogether.

Henno30

I make a personal promise to the forum that when we win this year's All-Irelands we will boo Cooney throughout the entirety of his presentation speech. An ego as pompous as his will understand a message like that.

dastardly00

does the problem lie with people climbing the current fence at Hill 16?
I thought the biggest problem was when people start shoving towards the front of the Hill, and for safety reasons the stewards have to open the gates and let everyone on to the pitch. This then leads to people from Hogan/Cusack stands running on to the pitch.
If the fence is increased in height, people will keep on shoving towards the front of the stand etc. etc.

UpTheSlashers

copacetic wrote: »

I don't think it's anything to do with Dublin, the break in the steward line keeping people off the pitch always happens at the Hill due to force of numbers. Then they go to plan B and let everyone on.

If they prevent the break in the line at the Hill they'll likely be able to keep people off the pitch altogether.

I think he was responding to post which has been deleted

Edit: Source, http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/gaa/2010/0807/1224276402856.html for anyone interested. Doesnt look like itll be in place for the hurling semi-finals

ANXIOUS

I hope that they don't install barriers. I for one wouldn't feel safe, it could turn very serious very quickly. Also I think the closer you are to the front your view would be impeded.

dcr22B

Typical that they won't be up for the hurling semi-finals but will be up in time for the Dubs v Cork game (which is a full 6 weeks after the Louth v Meath Leinster final). They should have phased this in rather than taking a knee jerk reaction. If Dublin win the semi on the 22nd, there could be very dangerous scenes on the Hill if some overzealous fans decide to invade the pitch.

Lest we take into account that the pitch invaders came from the stands and not Hill 16!

KevArno

But there were barriers on the hill before... I remember when we (Meath) won in 99 there were barriers up, no pitch invasion, and no problems! The big problem is the hill, no one said the dubs! No matter who is in the hill the force of numbers is too great and this is where all pitch invasions seem to start from.

I think it is the only option. I would rather there was some option for securing players first and then allowing people onto the pitch after that, but that doesnt seem to be in the GAAs mindset at all.

UpTheSlashers

I for one would hate to be up the front with these barriers at big matches. Surely a crush is imminent with the amount of knobs who occupy the Hill for Finals and such.

dcr22B

Surely after Hillsborough, it's a health and safety risk!

UpTheSlashers

dcr22B wrote: »

Surely after Hillsborough, it's a health and safety risk!

Exactly. Im sure the players dont like the pitch invasions either. The minors always seem to have great crack doing their lap of honour before the senior match. They get a great response from everyone in the crowd, imagine the atmosphere if the seniors did this.

caesar

dcr22B wrote: »

Surely after Hillsborough, it's a health and safety risk!

I'd be interested to see what their (crokers) insurers have to say....then again it should lessen the risk of someone being injured after entry on to the field as these barriers should prevent that.

I think its a bad idea, dont think its aimed at the dub fans either. I was at the hurling final last year and the hill was where the fans first broke, to the left of the goal looking from behind it.

dcr22B

I don't like the pitch invasions either but that's the nature of the beast and even moreso this year as you've four teams going for their first AI title in donkeys as well as the potential for an historic 5-in-a-row.

UpTheSlashers

Surely KK fans have seen enough of the pitch at this stage.

df1985

There is nothing keeping kildare fans off the pitch if they win the all ireland for the first time in 82 years.I can guarantee that now, if we beat down we'll be on the pitch too.

Barriers are well and good, but the gaa/stewards/gardai need to be prepared to let people on very quickly if theres a crush to get down to the bottom of the hill.When emotions are that high, it doesnt take long for things to get very serious or dangerous.

cc87

Thats not really going to solve the whole issue of fans being let onto the pitch to prevent people being crushed though is it?? In fact it would more than likely increase the risk of crush injuries.

Seems like a poorly thought out and very temporary measure IMO.

Syferus

UpTheSlashers wrote: »

Exactly. Im sure the players dont like the pitch invasions either. The minors always seem to have great crack doing their lap of honour before the senior match. They get a great response from everyone in the crowd, imagine the atmosphere if the seniors did this.

I'm so conflicted on this topic - I first thought, sure, this is too dangerous and it can't continue. After this year's Connacht final and witnessing and participating in the unbridled joy of the aftermath it does feel like something would be lost. Likewise, I saw players like Donie Shine estatic while our supporters carried them around the pitch - players don't have any sort of disregard for invasion and at the very least not a unified contempt of them.

The white heat of the crowd is also an issue not usually mentioned - I can imagine people collapsing from heat exhaustion in the huddled masses after a game.

I'm glad I don't have decide how to proceed because every end has advantages and disadvantages.

copacetic

cc87 wrote: »

Thats not really going to solve the whole issue of fans being let onto the pitch to prevent people being crushed though is it?? In fact it would more than likely increase the risk of crush injuries.

Seems like a poorly thought out and very temporary measure IMO.

Seems like it might be dangerous alright, their hope is that announcing the new fence might mean that people won't crush forward to get on the pitch.
Of course if they do they'll still have to let them on or people will be hurt.

cc87

copacetic wrote: »

Seems like it might be dangerous alright, their hope is that announcing the new fence might mean that people won't crush forward to get on the pitch.
Of course if they do they'll still have to let them on or people will be hurt.

Love to know who came up with the bright idea......

Well the fence isnt working......
Oh, i know....a BIGGER fence!!

Fits Morris

http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/2872998856_856c925dfbjpg.jpeg *NSFW*

Mod edit: Pic unembedded as some users may find it disturbing.

UpTheSlashers

Syferus wrote: »

After this year's Connacht final and witnessing and participating in the unbridled joy of the aftermath it does feel like something would be lost. Likewise, I saw players like Donie Shine estatic while our supporters carried them around the pitch - players don't have any sort of disregard for invasion and at the very least not a unified contempt of them..

Ya thats great, when its all in good spirit, but theres too many knobs nowadays who ruin it for everyone else as we saw a few weeks ago. Im conflicted myself also, The invasions are can be good crack but it wont be long before theres a serious incident if the Leinster final wasnt serious enough.

df1985

that picture is disturbing.....

Flukey

Before the redevelopment of Croke Park they had barriers the whole way around the ground. It didn't stop pitch invasions.

penexpers

I don't understand why people need to go on the pitch to celebrate. I doubt the majority of players would be in a favour of pitch invasions. There was a good article in last week's program about why players don't like them.

The barrier is not the best idea in the world, but until people stop trying to get onto the pitch, there's not much else to be done.

penexpers

df1985 wrote: »

There is nothing keeping kildare fans off the pitch if they win the all ireland for the first time in 82 years.I can guarantee that now, if we beat down we'll be on the pitch too.

Do you respect players wishes? What if the Kildare team came out before the game and said they don't want any of their fans on the pitch after the game?

Super5onic

penexpers wrote: »

I don't understand why people need to go on the pitch to celebrate. I doubt the majority of players would be in a favour of pitch invasions. There was a good article in last week's program about why players don't like them.

The barrier is not the best idea in the world, but until people stop trying to get onto the pitch, there's not much else to be done.

Spot on!

What amazes me is the amount of unaccompanied kids you see on the pitch after games....

Its time for GAA fans to cop on and stop invading the pitch like crazed animals....The GAA dont want, players dont want it - It doesnt happen (on a regular basis) in any other modern day sport

df1985

penexpers wrote: »

Do you respect players wishes? What if the Kildare team came out before the game and said they don't want any of their fans on the pitch after the game?

Very unlikely that would happen, if that was a direct request from the players then id respect it. But knowing 2 of the panel personally I can tell you thats the last thing on their minds.

What could be better for a player than holding the sam maguire aloft in the Hogan Stand with a sea of your fans in front of you.Thats the kind of moment they dream of.

cc87

df1985 wrote: »

What could be better for a player than holding the sam maguire aloft in the Hogan Stand with a sea of your fans in front of you.Thats the kind of moment they dream of.

But not wading through hundreds of fans to get to the steps up to Sam

Flukey

From 1999 to the Hurling Final in 2002, they did the presentation on the pitch and there was no invasion. The atmosphere was terrible. When Armagh won the Football All-Ireland in 2002, apart from seeing a county win their first ever title, one of the best things to happen that day was the fans being back on the pitch, as the pitch presentation was abandoned and Plan B kicked in. It is always a wonderful sight, even if it is the opposition's fans. Long may it continue.

unknown13

Then people should invade the pitch to prevent these stupid pitch presentations.

Fandango

The article says its over issues arising from the Leinster Final? Cant say for certain as i wasnt there but on TV it seemed most people who approached the ref came from around the Hogan Stand direction. Can see it being very dangerous if they do increase the barrier. 18,000 odd people pushing forward on a high metal barrier seems like a recipe for disaster!!

chinguetti

Say Dublin (it would be the same if Kildare, Waterford or Down win) win an AI. People at the back of the Hill want to get on the pitch because its tradition. The people down the front have nowhere to go as the crowd is coming against them. The stewards don't open the gates (as it appears pitch invasions are the worse thing going at present) to avoid a crush. What do you get? Carnage.

The problem with the Louth v Meath match was that the people didn't come from the Hill so they ain't solving a problem but making another one. Its plain daft.

Christy Cooney seems to be leading this campaign against pitch invasions but he was at Thurles and Castlebar watching fans entering the pitches to celebrate and nothing was said by anyone as far as i know.

If the GAA was serious about it, why don't they ask the Government to introduce a law whereby you enter a pitch, you get fined/prosecuted? Or if you want to be extreme, give the GAA permission to use tazers in their grounds as they do in the US. If fans were informed that if you step foot on the pitch, you'll be tazered, pitch invasions would quickly stop.

This fence comes out of one incident that was bad but everything that came after it was total knee jerk reaction. It reminds me of the Simpsons one where Homer bubbled wrapped the house to prevent Maggie getting injuried! GAA - D'Oh

mrgaa1

One thing that has to be said to those who mentioned Hillsborough - there were no crash barriers on the terrace that day. Thats why they are so prominent now in stadia everywhere.

People have to stop going on the field. Someone is going to get seriously hurt or worse.
I would like to think that the GAA - now that they have huge big screens up and a PA system - could get competing teams to pre-record a message that if their team wins that once the final whistle blows that its played VERY loudly across the PA system and on the big screen Asking supporters to stay off the field.
So lets say Dublin won it could be one of the Brogans, Brian Cullen etc... or if its Kildare Johnny Doyle, McGeeney himself, Down - Martin Clarke, Benny Coulter, Wee James or for Cork (won't matter not too many will go to the game)
And after about 30 seconds or so of that then former GAA legend players backing the request and then, only if necessary, show pictures of what could happen as the voice overs tell everyone to stay where they are.

A powerful message. We are not sc*m supporters. There isn't another sport where supporters go onto the pitch like this (and don't anyone tell me cricket is a sport). Its not tolerated.

Fandango

mrgaa1 wrote: »

A powerful message. We are not sc*m supporters. There isn't another sport where supporters go onto the pitch like this (and don't anyone tell me cricket is a sport). Its not tolerated.

Actually, the "were not sc*m" comment is precisely why there has, for the most-part, been no trouble with fans invading at full time. If they introduced it in alot of other sports, the pitch would become a battlefield.

whatnext

I say run a few thousand volts through the fence while they are at it.

If people from whatever county it happens to be on the day are going to behave like animals then the need to be caged / fenced in in an equally appropriate manner.

(I also appreciate the vast majority of animal behaviour is more akin to sheep than apes)

I have been attending intercounty matches for nearly thirty years and have never felt the need to charge the pitch, and when I was younger if i'd even atempted it I'd have gotten a clip around the ear at a minimum.

Fandango

whatnext wrote: »

I say run a few thousand volts through the fence while they are at it.

If people from whatever county it happens to be on the day are going to behave like animals then the need to be caged / fenced in in an equally appropriate manner.

(I also appreciate the vast majority of animal behaviour is more akin to sheep than apes)

I have been attending intercounty matches for nearly thirty years and have never felt the need to charge the pitch, and when I was younger if i'd even atempted it I'd have gotten a clip around the ear at a minimum.

Hows the view all the way up there on your pedestal? Youre honestly calling people who enter the pitch, as has been the tradition for many decades, to watch their county lift an All Ireland animals? Maybe a slight over-reaction there??

Benny Cake

IMO the Louth v Meath match sealed the deal, the GAA had to be seen to take some action....

A barrier in front of the Hill is only the beginning, if Croker is invaded from the stands after the all ireland the barrier will be extended all round the pitch. Pitch invasions are stupid and dangerous, if people cant exercise self-control we will be looking at a fully caged in croke park in the next 12 months.

Diabhal Beag

So they are putting up a barrier. That won't stop people trying to invade the pitch after the match and it will cause more injuries.

jack presley

Could they not just dig a moat instead?

penexpers

df1985 wrote: »

What could be better for a player than holding the sam maguire aloft in the Hogan Stand with a sea of your fans in front of you.Thats the kind of moment they dream of.

Direct quote from Sean Canvanagh about the All Ireland in 2008

I remember I was around the 14-yard line in front of the Hill and for about two seconds I think I got to hug Phillip Jordan and Kevin Hughes but that is all you get - two seconds - and then all of a sudden there were floods of people around us and we were on our knees surronded.

After that we were pushed and shoved for the next 10 minutes while we tried to make our way to the presentation area, which obviously took the shine off that first initial reaction that we had won the All Ireland

Hand on heart, it is quite scary. At that stage your legs are tired, your body is tired and all you want to do is go and lie somewhere or even just take a minute to yourself.

I know now you can't afford to drop to your knees because if you do, you get knocked around like a rag-doll and that's a recipe for disaster and if something doesn't change there will be a tragedy and change will be forced on us after that.

Fits Morris

mrgaa1 wrote: »

One thing that has to be said to those who mentioned Hillsborough - there were no crash barriers on the terrace that day. Thats why they are so prominent now in stadia everywhere.

There were crush barriers on the terrace at Hillsborough, albeit fewer and more poorly designed than on the new Hill 16.

Fits Morris

penexpers wrote: »

Direct quote from Sean Canvanagh about the All Ireland in 2008

Mickey Harte on the ball as usual:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0731/1224275909442.html

MICKEY HARTE has criticised the GAA’s use of “language of war” in a bid to prevent supporters running on to a pitch after the game.


The Tyrone manager believes that far from banning the practice, authorities should facilitate it, ensuring people can join their heroes in an orderly fashion.

He has also accused the proposal to have all presentations in the middle of the pitch before the players embark on a lap of honour as “delusion”.
“The picture painted by those who want the practice ended is one that depicts complete mayhem,” said Harte in yesterday’s Irish News. “The implication is made that the majority of those entering the field to congratulate their heroes have actually walked over others to achieve this objective. Distortion or what?

“Even the language used to describe this phenomenon is aggressive as we now have a chairman of the GAA’s Pitch Invasion Committee (Con Hogan). This is the language of war and confrontation used to describe what is essentially an act of euphoria and celebration.”

Harte argues that it is natural for supporters to want to share in the success of their heroes, but also to blend with each other in a time of celebration.

“To suggest that a lap of honour would allow the players to connect with their supporters in a manner equivalent to looking down on them from the presentation area on the Hogan Stand is tantamount to delusion.

“I can’t understand why the whole emphasis is directed towards finding a way to ensure this public display of elation, now an integral part of final day celebrations, can be consigned to history.

“What if people were told they could enter the pitch to join in the team’s celebrations and that this would be facilitated in an orderly fashion? Surely this would defuse the situation and, while there would always be those few who wish to be at the head of the queue, the majority would happily abide by the controlled entry procedures.”

df1985

Would agree with that, this had quickly turned into a gaa VS supporters thing, where both sides are out to prove a point.

Has the effect of telling someone theyre not allowed do something, they want to do it even more.

Bluetonic

dcr22B wrote: »

Surely after Hillsborough, it's a health and safety risk!

There were fences up on the hill for many a year after Hillsborough and there were little or no issue.

Much ado about nothing to be honest.

I'm sure they are designed to be easily collapsible.

Justin10

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nofenceonhill16/

Disgrace, why just the Hill? Imagine people from the stands get on to the pitch and while the people on the Hill watch on?

saeglopur

have no particular interest in running on the pitch after a game and dont agree with all the 'its a tradition' nonsense but caging people in like animals is a backward step.

I hope there is some sort of protest arranged for the dubs match because if this goes ahead it will only lead to the whole stadium being fenced off in the future imo. This will in turn give out entirely the wrong message about what the gaa and its supporters are about

Fandango

Bluetonic wrote: »

There were fences up on the hill for many a year after Hillsborough and there were little or no issue.

Much ado about nothing to be honest.

I'm sure they are designed to be easily collapsible.

True but the Hill was alot smaller at that time. Since the redevelopement it hold a far bigger crowd. How much more, i dont know, maybe someone else has those figures, but added also that the Nally is now a terrace and more or less a part of the Hill, i would guess its substancially more which adds more danger.