Lost Sheep nutrition

big mce

Hi All,

I'm doing the lost sheep in a few weeks and was trying to figure out the nutrition side. I did the bike route last week and burned 3500 calories and on a normal half marathon I'm burning 2500 (according to my Polar). Just wondering what the general consensus is on food, gels every hour on the bike with some bananas, HI 5 in the water bottle or is any one else doing something vastly different,

Thanks.

hunnymonster

Those numbers appear very high. Are you very heavy?

Anyway, your usage has litle effect on what you can consume during the race. A good guide is 60g carbs per hour and 750 ml liquid. Exact amounts will depend on your weight and the weather. For a half ironman I would stick to fluid only with maybe a gel half way through the run. Bananas are messy to carry on the bike?

big mce

Thanks Hunnymonster, I'm 5 10" and 84Kg which is probably very heavy for a triathlete but so be it.
I felt very hungry just during the bike of the lost sheep. Yes banana's are messy on the bike but I've never done anything like this before so unsure of what I need to refuel. Carrot cake isn't as messy but I don't think I'll have enough pockets!

Emer911

big mce wrote: »

Carrot cake isn't as messy but I don't think I'll have enough pockets!

LOL
Carrot Cake! I love it!!:D

rosscollins88

Last year I used about 300mls of energy drink (dropped my bottle half way up Healy Pass) and 1 energy bar during the bike. Then took 2 gels on the run.

They handed out bottles of water at Glengarrif but I dropped it as they handed it to me.

I struggled on the run big time, partly ran out of energy and partly stomach cramps. The gels didn't seem to help me at all on the run.

If I were to do it this year, I'd take 1 bottle of energy drink and then pick up a water at Glengarrif. I'd still eat the energy bar but take one gel in the last 10 miles on the bike.

Make sure and practice running of the bike with the nutrition strategy you plan on using as it may seem right calories wise but your digestive system may not agree.

hunnymonster

ross, sounds like you problem was with fluids. Do I read it correctly that you only drank 300 ml throughout the race?

rosscollins88

Well that's all I took on the bike. There were energy drink and water stations on the run that I drank from but the damage was already done.

That's why I was advocating the use of 500ml energy drink, then pick up 500ml of water at Glengarrif.

catweazle

I had two nutrigrains and three gels on the bike section of the Swinford 1/2 Ironman and I bombed big time on the run. I only started feeling better after a few bananas at 12k on the run.

That is the exact same weight and height as me big mce, we are not fat we are big boned

911sc

Lost Sheep nutrition?.......Same as the others, grass.:)

shotgunmcos

Whatever you choose to feed on make sure you practice in training before hand. I ate fig rolls and a nutri grain on the bike and 2 gels on the run. It was a hot day last year making the fluids more improtant ot focus on. I had a light carb drink bottle and a plain water bottle on the bike. I took the gels with water at the water stations on the run. I lasted until 3km to gho in the run when the wall closed in on me, more so from thirst than hunger. I suggest you over estimate how much fluid you will need if yuo are 84kg and 5'10. I was 5'11 and 83kg on the day to start with and about 5'9 and 81kg to finish

tunney

Solids will do nothing but fill your tummy.

2-3 gels on the bike per hour.
Gel leaving T2, gel at mile 3,6 and maybe 9.

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

Solids will do nothing but fill your tummy.

2-3 gels on the bike per hour.
Gel leaving T2, gel at mile 3,6 and maybe 9.

2-3 gels on the bike per hour? So that could be up to 9 gels on the bike + 2-3 on the run. So 8-12 gels in total, am I reading that correctly?

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

2-3 gels on the bike per hour? So that could be up to 9 gels on the bike + 2-3 on the run. So 8-12 gels in total, am I reading that correctly?

I'd go on the light side of it 2 gels per hour on the bike. 3 on the run. So I'd take bout 8 gels. No sports drink or food though.

About 880 kcal over the race.

metal dog

tunney wrote: »

Solids will do nothing but fill your tummy.

Is the problem with this that your system wont have time to break the food down and absorb the energy over the course of the race ? How does that work out for an ironman distance ?

tunney

metal dog wrote: »

Is the problem with this that your system wont have time to break the food down and absorb the energy over the course of the race ? How does that work out for an ironman distance ?

Ironman is about finding what works for you.
I find that 1/2 a bar every hour or two keeps the sensations of hunger at bay.

Perkina3

Right so seeing as how this appears to be a thread on nutrition during races. For the marathon would the same apply....Like I am going to beginning experimenting with what suits me but for a 26 mile run what are we talking bout? 3/4 gels.... 2 litres of water/energy drink? I am still looking into a running belt so I am looking for guidelines here so that I am not taking too little/too much.

big mce

tunney wrote: »

Ironman is about finding what works for you.
I find that 1/2 a bar every hour or two keeps the sensations of hunger at bay.

And what about when your finished Tunney, 2 steak dinners??

tunney

big mce wrote: »

And what about when your finished Tunney, 2 steak dinners??

Thats why kenmare is great, straight to Jam and get one of everything

shaungil

ah Kenmare. when I did it I tried a gel for the first time ever on the run despite really not wanting too but succumbing to peer pressure.

It's good that there's plenty of bushes to disappear into because it did not agree with my tummy at all.

Go with what works for you intraining and have practised it before.

KentuckyPete

My Lost Sheep nutrition plan is:

1. Breakfast
Porridge with honey and pear, orange juice and tea - to be finished 75 to 90 minutes before the race

2. BIKE
- Energy bar at 10km, washed down with High5 drink
- High 5 drink ( a few pulls) just before Healy climb
- Half an energy bar at Adrigole, washed down with High5 drink
- Banana coming into Glengarrif, followed by half an energy bar, washed down with High5 drink
- Gel, washed down with water at 70km

So that's 2 bars, one gel, one banana, one bottle of High5 and one bottle of water to be taken onto the bike

3. RUN
- Gel washed down with water at 3.5km water station
- Emergency gel (one that doesn't need water) in pocket in case a second one is needed later on the run

So that's two gels to be carried out onto the run

bryangiggsy

I would agree with a gel every half hour on the bike... I would also add 2 clifblocks every half hour..and 2.25 bottles of sports drink with you peeing at least once off the bike over the 90k. For the run 2 gels and 4 clifblocks over the duration should see u home in good speed.
Re your burned calories on the bike ...i think your cadence may be too low therefore your are using more energy.Try increase your cadence. The idea is to have your legs as fresh as possible when starting the run. Also try stay in the aero position for as long as possible as this will in turn save your hamstrings for the run. In frankfurt i burned 2800 calories on the bike with an average cadence of 87 over the bike leg. One of my colleagues burned close to 6000 with a cadence of 75. Good luck.
Bryan

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I would agree with a gel every half hour on the bike... I would also add 2 clifblocks every half hour..and 2.25 bottles of sports drink with you peeing at least once off the bike over the 90k. For the run 2 gels and 4 clifblocks over the duration should see u home in good speed.
Re your burned calories on the bike ...i think your cadence may be too low therefore your are using more energy.Try increase your cadence. The idea is to have your legs as fresh as possible when starting the run. Also try stay in the aero position for as long as possible as this will in turn save your hamstrings for the run. In frankfurt i burned 2800 calories on the bike with an average cadence of 87 over the bike leg. One of my colleagues burned close to 6000 with a cadence of 75. Good luck.
Bryan

A few comments

Per hour on the bike:
Two gels = 220kcal
Four clif bloks = 135kcal
750ml energy drink = 180kcal
Total calories is 535kcal

Some trained individuals can absorb 370kcal per hour, most is limited at 280-320kcal per hour. All that extra good and drink will, at best, sit in your stomach doing nothing. At best. At worst, its coming out - either up or down

Cadence has nothing to do with calories burned. As long as the person rides at the optimal cadence FOR THEM then they will be as effecient as possible. What happened with the huge differences between you and your friend is probably neither had your HRMs set up properly. That and the calories burnt on a HRM is just a guess.

bryangiggsy

Thanks for the reply. As far as i am aware my 310xt is calibrated properly. I'll blame my mate

During the bike i had 6.5 bottles of sports drink 332g of CHO, 8 gels = 216g, 24 clifblocks 192g and 2 power bars 45g so thats 785g for 6 hours or 3140kcal..
I peed 3 times during the bike (maybe thats the out) and felt real good coming in to start the marathon. Had no GI issues at all during the day. After lake placid last year in which i blew my nutrition plan i was determined to get that right above everything else.

Re cadence i guess i dont know enough about it to be able to debate. However i do know that i am way more efficient when close to 90 over the iron distance.

I saw one guy on the course who was mashing the pedals (65 id say) up hills etc..i felt like saying to him your killing yourself buddy. Off he went anyway but i took his number out of curiousity to see how he would go in the marathon. He did not even make it to the 10.5k marker. I was not surprised.

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Thanks for the reply. As far as i am aware my 310xt is calibrated properly. I'll blame my mate

Again its just a guess. Even an SRM will not be able to tell you the energy you've expended accurately. They will tell you the work you have done, but depending on the amount of wasted energy (heat produced, poor form etc) the energy used can be alot high.

bryangiggsy wrote: »

During the bike i had 6.5 bottles of sports drink 332g of CHO, 8 gels = 216g, 24 clifblocks 192g and 2 power bars 45g so thats 785g for 6 hours or 3140kcal..
I peed 3 times during the bike (maybe thats the out) and felt real good coming in to start the marathon. Had no GI issues at all during the day. After lake placid last year in which i blew my nutrition plan i was determined to get that right above everything else.

I'm guessing in IMlp you walked on the run and blamed nutrition?

I think you've done your calcs wrong as well, you about 700 kcal out. That set up is closer to 4000kcal, but thats neither here nor there really.

I did Austria on 2000kcal. Could have done with another litre of water on the first 20km of the run though

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Re cadence i guess i dont know enough about it to be able to debate. However i do know that i am way more efficient when close to 90 over the iron distance.

You've tested this?

bryangiggsy wrote: »

I saw one guy on the course who was mashing the pedals (65 id say) up hills etc..i felt like saying to him your killing yourself buddy. Off he went anyway but i took his number out of curiousity to see how he would go in the marathon. He did not even make it to the 10.5k marker. I was not surprised.

So based on one bloke, without asking him what happened, thats your support for a high cadence being more efficient. Most get onto Mr.Sutton and TBB and let them know they've been doing it wrong


Good to see some interesting discussions back on the board!!!!


How did you get on in Frankfurt? What time?
Did you enjoy the race?
How did you get there?
Where did you stay?

bryangiggsy

Hey am just but a mere novice in endurance sport. Its only my 3rd year in tri. I suppose if i trained all year mashing pedals than my body would adapt but no ive trained at a cadence of around 90 and thats worked for me and thats why i feel efficient at it :rolleyes:

I did not walk the marathon in lake placid last year i just had no strength to run as i ate poorly on the bike so i jogged and walked through the aid stations.another error. Simple as.

Frankfurt was great apart from the heat. As i said i nailed my nutrition plan and i nailed my pacing plan (given by my coaches) so could not have been happier. The swim was non wetsuit and the bike was 185k (due to roadworks in bad vibel) and i came home in 11.30.01. With the work and family commitments i have and the training i had done..i could not have gone any faster. Your only as good as the miles in your legs thats what i love about tri...if your honest u cant cheat in this sport.
Am coached by Tim Snow (5th in LP this year)of QT2 systems. Go onto the website and read some of their articles as you seem to appreciate good knowledge. They blew me away www.qt2systems.com. Cait Snow(2nd in lp this year) did my nutrition plan. 100g of CHO per hour.
Re frankfurt itself stayed in ibis centrum frankfurt on the river.on run route.cheap cheerful and very quiet. Got slot through nirvana as was late applying

bryangiggsy

How did u go in Austria?

What was the course like?

How did accomodation work out?

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

How did u go in Austria?

What was the course like?

How did accomodation work out?

Went okay. Okay swim, okay bike but water was in cups on the run and I hadn't expected it on the run. As a result didn't drink for for 27km, got dehydrated and walked for 40 minutes. Still had a fun day and didn't make a complete tit of myself, my first finished IM.

Course is nice. Swim is nice, the canal is an experience. Bike course has some steep hills on it and is fantastically scenic with tremendous support the whole way around. Ditto the run, but not as scenic

Accomodation was Hotel Dermuth, second year there, great spot. Helped they remembered me. (Although not that many people arrive back from the race covered in blood, plaster and bandages).

Would recommend both the hotel and the race.

big mce

tunney wrote: »

Went okay. Okay swim, okay bike but water was in cups on the run and I hadn't expected it on the run. As a result didn't drink for for 27km, got dehydrated and walked for 40 minutes.

There has to be something ironic in the fact that your advising on nutrition Tunney :D

Just goes to show even the pros make mistakes!

dokter

Last year I took 5 gels on the bike. Last 2 had caffene. 2 700cc bottles of water and took another 500ml in Glengarriff. 2hr40min on the bike
Took another gel soon after T2 but couldnt stomach another.
One tip is have a small water bottle in T2 as its a long run to the first station.
I got slightly dehidrated but managed 90min for the run.
4:52 total

tunney

big mce wrote: »

There has to be something ironic in the fact that your advising on nutrition Tunney :D

Just goes to show even the pros make mistakes!

Oh yeah - and I will take that lesson to the grave.

I knew what I had to drink and eat on the bike and nailed that.
I knew what I had to drink and eat on the run but was thrown by the way the water was given out. In hindsight this was entirely avoidable as all my IM mates and my coach knew it was in cups and I completely neglected to confirm my assumptions. More importantly I didn't adapt my plans for the situation and I paid a huge price for these mistakes and lost 35 odd minutes due to it.

Most of the advice I give is based on mistakes. I've made most of them, but thankfully most only once. I will not make this one again if I get another IM outing.

bryangiggsy

That i have to say is the great thing about Ironman racing ..you learn so much more from just doing one than you can read in any book. Fair play if you lost 35 mins on the run after seeing your time you must have been damn close to a Kona spot. Fair play.
Are you in triathlon long?

tunney

bryangiggsy wrote: »

That i have to say is the great thing about Ironman racing ..you learn so much more from just doing one than you can read in any book. Fair play if you lost 35 mins on the run after seeing your time you must have been damn close to a Kona spot. Fair play.
Are you in triathlon long?

Books are fairly clear on the point that if its 37 degrees then drink water

Faffing about for a few years in the sport alright. Since 2004.