price of a QS

selfbuildsoon

hi all, just wondering does anyone know how much a QS would charge for doing up a costing for a self-build 3500 sq. ft. house? we have a price from a builder but would like a price for self-building. thanks.

sinnerboy

Typically 2-3% of the build cost . A good one will save you a multiple of this .

whelzer

Check out http://www.pricebeforeyoubuild.ie.

I plan on using them soon to "do" my 73m2 of extension(s).

No affilation whatsoever - friend of a friend used them in the "boom"...

selfbuildsoon

thanks for that.:)

kkelliher

to get a (non nixer) professional quantity surveyor with full professional indemnity insurance to do a costing bill for a domestic client including site visit and time spent going through your requirements with you should be in the region of €500 (extension) - 1200 (one off property) plus VAT. Depending on location, and size of property.

A Quantity Surveyor will save you a multiple of their fee as they get directly involved in the direct costing of every element which other ways of costing (price per squae foot etc) do not allow for. Remembering that the change in something as simple as the spec of a door can result in a €0.50 per sq ft (assuming around 15 doors) price change shows how variable this method of costing can be.

the percentage charges are more to do with commercial work.

Working on tender documents, tender analysis, post contract work would be additional and it is here that a Quantity Surveyor can save you the money that you should never spend.

I am a quantity surveyor for record

JuniorB

kkelliher wrote: »

A Quantity Surveyor will save you a multiple of their fee as they get directly involved in the direct costing of every element which other ways of costing (price per squae foot etc) do not allow for. Remembering that the change in something as simple as the spec of a door can result in a €0.50 per sq ft (assuming around 15 doors) price change shows how variable this method of costing can be.

Nor sure I agree with your point here.
If a builder has quoted rock bottom prices for a build then employing a QS may or MAY NOT save you a multiple of their fee. What if your QS cost comes back higher?
If for e.g. the QS costs the same spec door as the builder at €100 a door when the builder can get it at €90??
BTW Where do QS's get their prices from?

The assumption always seems to be made that the builder is somehow always more expensive when that MAY NOT necessarily be the case.

bruschi

JuniorB wrote: »

Nor sure I agree with your point here.
If a builder has quoted rock bottom prices for a build then employing a QS may or MAY NOT save you a multiple of their fee. What if your QS cost comes back higher?
If for e.g. the QS costs the same spec door as the builder at €100 a door when the builder can get it at €90??
BTW Where do QS's get their prices from?

The assumption always seems to be made that the builder is somehow always more expensive when that MAY NOT necessarily be the case.

how much for fitting the door? a QS in a job like this would more than likely be quoting for direct labour, and invariably cash in hand. a builder will have overheads and profit to accrue, so while he may get SOME materials for better prices due to tax at 13.5% not applicable, the overheads will have to be paid, which wouldnt be for direct labour, and a good QS will allow for that. builders will have more things to pay (fees, workers pensions, insurances etc) that a direct build wouldnt accrue due to different subbies doing the work.

kkelliher

JuniorB wrote: »

Nor sure I agree with your point here.
If a builder has quoted rock bottom prices for a build then employing a QS may or MAY NOT save you a multiple of their fee. What if your QS cost comes back higher?
If for e.g. the QS costs the same spec door as the builder at €100 a door when the builder can get it at €90??
BTW Where do QS's get their prices from?

The assumption always seems to be made that the builder is somehow always more expensive when that MAY NOT necessarily be the case.

As someone who does this everyday I can guarantee that I would save money and would assume that all other QS's would follow suit. There are very few if any builders who include for everything in their prices that is required for the job. This is a fact based on experience. Its not simply about the QS cost. Its about including for all aspects of the build. The Qs cost may come back higher as they have a better chance of including for everything.

Its unfortunately not practicle in business for a contractor to include for everything as this could price him out of the job. He will include for the obvious items that are required to build the property but may leave out finishes, mechanical or electrical items or as generally done allow a provisional or PC sum for these. When they get to the job they are not in competition and generally charge what they like for EXTRAS.

A QS gets his prices from working in the market everyday. You have to remember that a high percentage of builders get a QS to price their work in the first place.

sinnerboy

JuniorB wrote: »

Nor sure I agree with your point here.
If a builder has quoted rock bottom prices for a build then employing a QS may or MAY NOT save you a multiple of their fee. What if your QS cost comes back higher?
If for e.g. the QS costs the same spec door as the builder at €100 a door when the builder can get it at €90??
BTW Where do QS's get their prices from?

The assumption always seems to be made that the builder is somehow always more expensive when that MAY NOT necessarily be the case.

It is when a builder qoutes rock bottom that you need professional help most . Could be a QS or AT or engineer . To stave off the RyanAir affect

To clear up a mis understanding - if your QS cost-advises €100 per door ( this is between you and him only ) and the builder prices at €90 ( this is between you and the builder ) - take a close look at that door before agreeing to accept it .

JuniorB

Without getting too pedantic...My point was - Like any other profession you have good QS's and bad QS's so a blanket statement that hiring a QS will save you a multiple of their fee is simply not correct... hiring a good QS may save you money.

kkelliher

I suppose in theory you can say that about any appointment in any profession but in general those who dont perform dont get work as word of mouth in construction is very strong.

Tefral

kkelliher wrote: »

As someone who does this everyday I can guarantee that I would save money and would assume that all other QS's would follow suit. There are very few if any builders who include for everything in their prices that is required for the job. This is a fact based on experience. Its not simply about the QS cost. Its about including for all aspects of the build. The Qs cost may come back higher as they have a better chance of including for everything.

Its unfortunately not practicle in business for a contractor to include for everything as this could price him out of the job. He will include for the obvious items that are required to build the property but may leave out finishes, mechanical or electrical items or as generally done allow a provisional or PC sum for these. When they get to the job they are not in competition and generally charge what they like for EXTRAS.

A QS gets his prices from working in the market everyday. You have to remember that a high percentage of builders get a QS to price their work in the first place.

As a QS i can verfiy the above!

A QS really makes a return for the clients money when changes occur to the build, builders often try bull**** clients into thinking the price for their Change Order is the best, but ive worked on jobs were the builders have come down at least 20% after a bit of investigation. You cant bull**** a QS on prices.

Provisional sums on jobs can be throughly investigated by the QS and in many cases these arent even paid to the builder in the end or if they are they are a fraction of what the builder claims for.

Casati

I got a QS to cost my house and was amazed at how far out they were versus the actual costs incurredon my self build- generally I found them to be much higher than the prices actually paid, even for named/ branded itesm. Almost everything was purchases cheaper. I think the costed BOM they provide is useful as a guide to ensure you are covering everything in your own budgets.

I dont really see how they can save you money though, this claim is lost on me as if the prices they quote are not achieved its the self builders tough luck. As such if a builder quotes 90 per sq ft, and the QS says 80 per sq ft, its still completely up to the self builder to negotiate every step and if he comes in at 100 sq ft the QS wont be making up the difference

kkelliher

Casati wrote: »

I got a QS to cost my house and was amazed at how far out they were versus the actual costs incurredon my self build- generally I found them to be much higher than the prices actually paid, even for named/ branded itesm. Almost everything was purchases cheaper. I think the costed BOM they provide is useful as a guide to ensure you are covering everything in your own budgets.

I dont really see how they can save you money though, this claim is lost on me as if the prices they quote are not achieved its the self builders tough luck. As such if a builder quotes 90 per sq ft, and the QS says 80 per sq ft, its still completely up to the self builder to negotiate every step and if he comes in at 100 sq ft the QS wont be making up the difference

This is a very general statement. I meet clients everyday who were given budgets by architects that were off the wall. Without knowing the specifics of a particular case its difficult to answer.

If you want to utilise the QS to the best possible amount you would let him work with you throughout the project in order to achieve best possible prices. It should not be a case of heres the BOQ now off with you!!! The QS should be able to achieve the as estimate cost or better on most items.

bruschi

Casati wrote: »

I got a QS to cost my house and was amazed at how far out they were versus the actual costs incurredon my self build- generally I found them to be much higher than the prices actually paid, even for named/ branded itesm. Almost everything was purchases cheaper. I think the costed BOM they provide is useful as a guide to ensure you are covering everything in your own budgets.

I dont really see how they can save you money though, this claim is lost on me as if the prices they quote are not achieved its the self builders tough luck. As such if a builder quotes 90 per sq ft, and the QS says 80 per sq ft, its still completely up to the self builder to negotiate every step and if he comes in at 100 sq ft the QS wont be making up the difference

thing is with pricing stuff, is you cant generally price on getting deals done. In that if you are quoted €6,000 for the doors, you could manage to get some money knocked off that by negotiating. things like that cant be seen pre construction in the main. what it is more useful for is like you say, covering everything in the BOQ and making sure the budget stays within reason.

but its post contract awarding where the QS can be the difference. by using them as a project manager and assessing the site, they can keep a handle on costs and keep an eye on the builder and what is going in and out of the job.

but if doing the job as a self builder, you are right, I couldnt see how having the QS would save lots. they provide a budget to work to and should give a reasonably accurate assesment of the costs. its good to have before building to see where the bulk of the money is going and if there are alternatives.

alfa_aficionado

sorry to hijack your thread...:)

We are about to embark on a newbuild property using a contractor with a fixed price contract - what benefit is there to us in hiring a QS?

Presumably if we end up making changes after the build has started it might be useful to negotiate a price with the contractor for these changes but I am struggling to come up with any other advantages.

kkelliher

alfa_aficionado wrote: »

sorry to hijack your thread...:)

We are about to embark on a newbuild property using a contractor with a fixed price contract - what benefit is there to us in hiring a QS?

Presumably if we end up making changes after the build has started it might be useful to negotiate a price with the contractor for these changes but I am struggling to come up with any other advantages.

To be honest if you have already appointed a contractor its limited what anyone can do for you as anything that may already have been missed in the contract sum and any variations will be at the Contractors request from here in. You can negociate the price but thats about all.

Pre-Contract is crutial as you need to spend the time on confirming finishes and specifications. It is economically better to do a deal at the start when everything is included than have to change as you go. The Industry average is 15-20% variations on general builds due to poor precontract work.

bamboozle

just my 2 cents worth, we did a large renovation of our house last year, before project began i had architect on board who advised we used a good QS, to be honest i hadnt a clue what a QS did, by the end of the project i considered the role of the QS to be as vital as the architect as the QS kept costs under control from the start.

we received 10 tenders back and the differences on the bill of quatities from each builder was amazing. No suprise that in the end the builders we went with were 2 brothers, 1 a carpenter and 1 a qualified QS who actually brought us in under budget.

Stegliano

Hi Bamboozle,

I am embarking on a demolition and rebuild. Could you pm me your QS and builder please?