Would anyone know what to do?

pigvon

Hi everybody. I would like to ask you for advice. Like many people those days I got in to trouble and can't think of any way out. Maybe someone know if there is any alternative option for me?

I'm originally from Poland but I live in Cork since 2004. I have a small daughter who lives with her mother. I see her everyday and love her to bits. I can not imagine leaving Ireland and not seeing my daughter. She needs her daddy and I need her. Up until recently I have been self-employed, but now it is all over and I am in a massive debt. I have been refused social welfare payment because my mother died and left me our family apartment in Poland and it is "only my choice" to stay here. I have been trying to sell it for the last 4 months at a very low price, but there is no one interested to buy it. Renting potential - if I was lucky is - 250 euro per month, so it wouldn't even be enough to rent a room and buy food in Cork. At the moment I only have roof over my head because of the kindness of my friend and food thanks to Saint Vincent's. I am depressed and can't see any way out. I am applying for all sorts of jobs and did not get a single reply yet.

Does any one know what to do in my situation? Is there any institution that could help me look for an alternative option than leaving Ireland and my beloved daughter? Does anyone know if there is any free psychological support for people like me?

run_Forrest_run

very sorry to hear about your situation. You could always try and talk to the Samaritans (http://www.corksamaritans.ie/). First you need to get your head sorted and once you have that done you can begin to think clearly and work out your options.

You say you were self-employed, can I ask what was your line of work? Perhaps if you told us more someone might be able to give you some advice.

pigvon

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

very sorry to hear about your situation. You
You say you were self-employed, can I ask what was your line of work? Perhaps if you told us more someone might be able to give you some advice.

It was nothing fancy, just basically driving around in a van with two other guys and distributing flyers and free newspapers. We were subcontractors for a bigger company and as they had gone out of business so did we. I was paying my own tax, so the social welfare wouldn't see me as an employee, but simply as a sole-trader.

babo9

G's man that's harsh...hope things look up for you.
Can they refuse social welfare for inherating a property in another country, "it's your own choice to stay", are they implying you should go back to Poland, sure what's to say you'll be better off over there. I thought given the circumstances, having a child here etc. they'd be more forthcoming. If you are feeling really down etc. if could be worth getting a letter off a doctor explaining the impact of things etc. and try using that to support your claim.
Have you appealed the decision to deny you social welfare? It's free to appeal http://www.socialwelfareappeals.ie/

When I was on welfare for a time, I appealed a decision and included a letter from my doctor backing up my appeal and I won. I'm not saying it'll help you but it's worth a try.

It's worth speaking to local politicians too maybe, I guess the biggest one in cork is Micheal Martin, http://www.michealmartin.ie/contact/

Hope things look up for you.

pigvon

First of all thank you for your reply guys. I am definitely going to talk to the Samaritans

babo9 wrote: »

Can they refuse social welfare for inherating a property in another country, I thought given the circumstances, having a child here etc.

Unfortunately they can do it - every property that you don't leave in is taken to account when assessing your means. Obviously I am going to appeal this decision, but I don't put up my hopes too high because that is the law. As the Romans said: dura lex sed lex

Milly33

Terrible to hear things arent working out for you. But keep your head up I know it is hard but try and keep positive, like run forest run said sort your head out first before moving on..You sound like you have lots of love to give to your daughter but dont forget that you are important too

You were saying you would get 250 for renting the apartment back home, I know it isnt ideal but would it not be worth it for the extra money, better than it sitting there doing nothing while you are trying to sell it. Also if it was in a nice spot or touristy spot you could rent it out to holidaymakers and get alot more money for it..

pigvon

Milly33 wrote: »

You were saying you would get 250 for renting the apartment back home, I know it isnt ideal but would it not be worth it for the extra money, better than it sitting there doing nothing while you are trying to sell it.

I will do that eventually, however I need to honor my debts and selling the apartment is the only way I could pay it back. It's a really tricky situation...

babo9

ps I know of people who have gone to politicians offices with variety of problems, and gotten places, and Martin is a big one, so I'm not just making a random suggestion

pigvon

babo9 wrote: »

ps I know of people who have gone to politicians offices with variety of problems, and gotten places, and Martin is a big one, so I'm not just making a random suggestion

Would he has the time to talk to me? I'm sure that a big politician would have more important things to do, than appealing my case. On the other hand it doesn't costs anything to ask him so I suppose i should go and ask.
Thank you

dextero

Did you try mabs They are a money advice crowd. It is a free service. They go through your accounts with you and tell you the best course of action. They know all about social welfare and can deal with debtors on your behalf. Their website is www.mabs.ie
If you go back to Poland would you get a social welfare payment there? Could you go back until you found a way to build up some money? There arent many options here, the only one I have seen advertising recently were greenstar. Chippers are often a good option for work.
I would appeal the social welfare decision on the basis that you have been unable to sell the property and provide them with documented proof that it is on the market. Give them a list and proof of all your debts. Also your daughters birthcert so they can see why you want to stay. Have a look into night courses so you can show them you are trying to improve your skills while waiting for employment.
If you are badly depressed you maybe better off on disability allowance until you get yourself together. This is also means tested though. Your local health office can also help, they give a payment called a supplementry welfare allowance. They can be daunting to go and see but if they realise you are genuine they tend to be ok. They are based at your local hse health office. Mabs should be able to tell you all this though or if you ring the following they should be able to tell you where your local office is:
Cork – South Lee Local Health Office: Abbeycourt House, George's Quay, Cork. Tel: 021 496 5511
Cork – North Lee Local Health Office: Abbeycourt House, George's Quay, Cork. Tel: 021 496 5511
There is always big queues at these places.

pigvon

Thank you for all the info. I will look into all that. Reg HSE: Yes I am 100% genuine and my local HSE officer refused the payment because of the apartment.

dextero

You arent mixing you hse and social welfare are you? You usually only go to the hse if social welfare have refused you or you are waiting for sw to pay.

Owen

I hope you are not my friend [name edited out] who was doing a similar job!!

There is still a demand for your type of work, can you perhaps try advertising to do it on your own?

Very sad to hear this situation. If you were self employed you do not qualify for social welfare when you are out of work. If you are completely desolate you may get something but it takes ages and as you know it is means tested. As you said your daughter needs her Dad so try to keep the chin up, keep looking for work and keep as positive as you can. Speak to your local councillor, Michael Martin probably is not the best one to go to unless he is local to you. Get the Polish property rented out too as soon as you can. Worst case scenario it will help feed yourself.

pigvon

dextero wrote: »

You arent mixing you hse and social welfare are you? You usually only go to the hse if social welfare have refused you or you are waiting for sw to pay.

Ok, so if the community officer and social welfare are two different things, than
I was refused by the community officer in that case, and the social welfare did not get back to me at all.

RoverJames wrote: »

Worst case scenario it will help feed yourself.

true

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I hope you are not my friend Przemek who was doing a similar job!!

What if I am?

Owen

pigvon wrote: »

What if I am?

I didn't mean it negatively, I was just saying that I hope it's not my friend who has hit on hard times. That's all! Also, have a look at the top of this forum, there's a thread with jobs currently available in Cork which may help you out too.

pigvon

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I didn't mean it negatively, I was just saying that I hope it's not my friend who has hit on hard times. That's all! Also, have a look at the top of this forum, there's a thread with jobs currently available in Cork which may help you out too.

Well, yes it is me - Przemek...
I am going to apply for some of those jobs, but I also check FAS website everyday.

Owen

Stara Bieda ma kollega! Hopefully something will come for you soon.

pigvon

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Stara Bieda ma kollega! Hopefully something will come for you soon.

Stara bieda moj kolego, but your Polish is still better than my English... and the bieda is nowa and not stara.

stara - old
bieda - poverty
moj - my
kolego - friend
nowa - new

I didn't expect to meet here someone I know...

dextero

How did they find out about the property in Poland? Could you gift it to another family member who you could trust to give you the money if it ever sells?

pigvon

dextero wrote: »

How did they find out about the property in Poland? Could you gift it to another family member who you could trust to give you the money if it ever sells?

I told them about it, as it would be a fraud not to tell them. I was convinced that they will just give me a deadline to sell it or ask me to rent it out and pay me the difference between whatever I would get for it and the usual job-seeker's payment. Instead I have been punished for being honest - but we all learn from our mistakes... I don't have any family apart from my daughter and she is only 3.5 so I obviously couldn't put it in her name. Doing so would be also a fraud and they actually mention that on their website.

dextero

You are better than me Aldi in mahon are looking for a caretaker. Its only 10 hrs a week but it might be a start.

pigvon

dextero wrote: »

You are better than me Aldi in mahon are looking for a caretaker. Its only 10 hrs a week but it might be a start.

I left my CV there twice and twice got the "sorry but no" reply. but I'll go there again on Monday:D 10 hours is much better than 0 hours;)

Deliverance

You could ask for some further advice and support on the parenting forum as well. Your situation might be helped further as such.

fryup

pigvon wrote: »

I have been refused social welfare payment because my mother died and left me our family apartment in Poland and it is "only my choice" to stay here. I have been trying to sell it for the last 4 months at a very low price

you should have never have mentioned that to them (social welfare)

they would have never found out anyway, they don't investigate that deeply into your background esp for a non-national applicant

babo9

I am suprised that you mentioned that too...it would be one thing to own a property in Cork but a property in another country that you inherited and don't even want!

pigvon wrote: »

Ok, so if the community officer and social welfare are two different things, than
I was refused by the community officer in that case, and the social welfare did not get back to me at all.

They are different, the community officer helps you out when you're in a pinch and can give you money almost right away, hence a lot of people go to the community officer while waiting on a reply from social welfare (which can take 2 months+ sometimes, although I have heard of people getting it quicker recently) because they are broke.
Did you tell the social welfare about the property, or just the community officer? Did the community officer not sympatise with the fact you inherited the property and don't really want it because you want to stay here in Cork for your child?

Afaik the community officers change every few weeks, so it might be worth going back if there's someone else there. When I had to go 2 years ago my C.O. officer wasn't the nicest man, but a friend who went 2 weeks later had a female officer who was suppose to be much nicer.
Of course your previous visit is probably recorded so I dunno will it help...

pigvon wrote: »

Would he has the time to talk to me? I'm sure that a big politician would have more important things to do, than appealing my case. On the other hand it doesn't costs anything to ask him so I suppose i should go and ask.
Thank you

I'm not sure if you'll see him in person but I think the info gets to him and the office will try and do something.

pigvon

I told them about the property in Poland, not because I was afraid that they will investigate, but because I am a honest person and and wouldn't be able to sleep if I lied. I went to the citizen information, and a woman there told me that my place is in Poland as Ireland is in deep economical crisis and it has to look after it's own people first. With tears in my eyes I told her that I would, if not the fact, that I have my daughter and all my friends here and this has been my home for the last 6 years. She said that there are plenty of flights between Poland and Ireland and I could come to see my daughter from time to time. After talking to to all those people I got the impression that for them I am not a human being, but just a PPS number that they would be more than happy to get rid of. The good news is that a guy I know is going to open a new grocery shop in North Main street and he offered me a job there starting next month.

babo9

pigvon wrote: »

I told them about the property in Poland, not because I was afraid that they will investigate, but because I am a honest person and and wouldn't be able to sleep if I lied. I went to the citizen information, and a woman there told me that my place is in Poland as Ireland is in deep economical crisis and it has to look after it's own people first. With tears in my eyes I told her that I would, if not the fact, that I have my daughter and all my friends here and this has been my home for the last 6 years. She said that there are plenty of flights between Poland and Ireland and I could come to see my daughter from time to time. After talking to to all those people I got the impression that for them I am not a human being, but just a PPS number that they would be more than happy to get rid of. The good news is that a guy I know is going to open a new grocery shop in North Main street and he offered me a job there starting next month.

That's great to hear, glad you got something sorted!
I'll have to pop into the shop when it opens and buy some grocerys

Owen

pigvon wrote: »

a woman there told me that my place is in Poland as Ireland is in deep economical crisis and it has to look after it's own people first.

That's a disgraceful attitude, and she should be reported for telling someone that.

pigvon wrote: »

She said that there are plenty of flights between Poland and Ireland

There aren't plenty of flights if you want to go anywhere other than Warsaw. My other half is Polish, and we have to go from Cork to Dublin, Dublin to Poland, and even then you're left hanging around airports loosing out a day each way. So taking 5 days off work means you only get 3 days at your destination!

pigvon wrote: »

The good news is that a guy I know is going to open a new grocery shop in North Main street and he offered me a job there starting next month.

Woot! Congratulations

tommy21

pigvon wrote: »

I told them about the property in Poland, not because I was afraid that they will investigate, but because I am a honest person and and wouldn't be able to sleep if I lied. I went to the citizen information, and a woman there told me that my place is in Poland as Ireland is in deep economical crisis and it has to look after it's own people first. With tears in my eyes I told her that I would, if not the fact, that I have my daughter and all my friends here and this has been my home for the last 6 years. She said that there are plenty of flights between Poland and Ireland and I could come to see my daughter from time to time. After talking to to all those people I got the impression that for them I am not a human being, but just a PPS number that they would be more than happy to get rid of. The good news is that a guy I know is going to open a new grocery shop in North Main street and he offered me a job there starting next month.

Sad situation but great to hear it might be improving!

pigvon

babo9 wrote: »

That's great to hear, glad you got something sorted!
I'll have to pop into the shop when it opens and buy some grocerys

I will definitely let you know once I start working. Anyway thank you everybody it is very helpful to know that there are people who care and not everybody is so ruthless like people I had to deal with. I would also like to thank the volunteers from St. Vincent the Paul who helped me big time. You are doing a great job and I will pay back and much more once I'm back on track.

pigvon

pigvon wrote: »

I will definitely let you know once I start working. Anyway thank you everybody it is very helpful to know that there are people who care and not everybody is so ruthless like people I had to deal with. I would also like to thank the volunteers from St. Vincent the Paul who helped me big time. You are doing a great job and I will pay back and much more once I'm back on track.

Fair play to you, best of luck with the new job, I hope it works out well for you. That b1tch that you spoke to in the Citizens Info place sounds a right cnut.

Snoogans

Some of the people working there (citizens info etc) are pretty much evil incarnate.
My best friend's mother works at the dole office, and she's pretty high up on the food chain- she detests the place, both for the insane beaurocracy and poorly trained coworkers (or ones who are just dastards).

The CWO up by the Lough Community Center (obviously she's around other places as well) has no business having the job she does.
On the other hand, it's really good to hear this particular story has some happiness to it, and it's worthy of recognition that he intends to pay back the SvP

deRanged

ah it sounds like things are looking up for you - and that's great!

I did a little bit of checking for you and the system works like this.
you should go to the social welfare office to make a claim.
you were self employed so you don't qualify for jobseekers benefit, but you would qualify for job seekers allowance (hopefully I've got those the right way 'round). the one you qualify for is means tested, so you would need to mention the apartment in Poland. This apartment (no offence to anyone intended) is likely not worth much, so wouldn't have too much of an impact. They (social welfare) would process your claim and in due course you'd start getting payments. They're well used to valuing property abroad, there's nothing too unusual about your situation.
The CWO (comunity welfare officer) helps out at this stage, because it can take a while from getting the claim in to payments starting to appear. If you've not made the claim they may not help you, as they can't then claim the money back from social welfare.

The very best thing you can do is call into the Social Welfare office, queue up and speak to the person at the desk. They know the system and will advise you as to the best thing to do.

I've written all this down in case it's useful to you or someone else, even though it sounds like you may not need it

disclaimer: I'm not an expert in these matters, just trying to help out.

pigvon

deRanged wrote: »

ah it sounds like things are looking up for you - and that's great!

I did a little bit of checking for you and the system works like this.
you should go to the social welfare office to make a claim.
you were self employed so you don't qualify for jobseekers benefit, but you would qualify for job seekers allowance (hopefully I've got those the right way 'round). the one you qualify for is means tested, so you would need to mention the apartment in Poland. This apartment (no offence to anyone intended) is likely not worth much, so wouldn't have too much of an impact. They (social welfare) would process your claim and in due course you'd start getting payments. They're well used to valuing property abroad, there's nothing too unusual about your situation.
The CWO (comunity welfare officer) helps out at this stage, because it can take a while from getting the claim in to payments starting to appear. If you've not made the claim they may not help you, as they can't then claim the money back from social welfare.

The very best thing you can do is call into the Social Welfare office, queue up and speak to the person at the desk. They know the system and will advise you as to the best thing to do.

I've written all this down in case it's useful to you or someone else, even though it sounds like you may not need it

disclaimer: I'm not an expert in these matters, just trying to help out.

I have already done all what you are suggesting here in that exact order. I have applied to SW on June 1th and each time I go there they are saying that I have to wait. About a month ago as I run out of the money completely I went to my local HSE officer and asked him for assistance. After 3 weeks I got a letter that they value my apartment in Poland for approx 85 000 euro and according to their calculator it should be making weekly profit of 244 euro. (all bull***t) Therefore I am entitled to nothing and staying in Ireland is only my own choice and responsibility. The fact is that I am making exactly 0 euro on this apartment because I can not rent it if I want to sell it. Even then the rental potential is only about 250 euro per month. If I had the 85 000 euro in my bank account I wouldn't claim social welfare in the first place. There is a difference between having an apartment 2000 miles away and having the money. I can not go to the shop and exchange a square centimeter of my apartment for a peace of bread. Hopefully I'll get that job and won't have to deal with those people again. Ireland is my home for the last 6 years, I speak the language (kind of), I have become almost like yourselves,and I don't even know anyone in Poland anymore. I don't want to claim social welfare for a number of years - all I need is a temporary help until I get a job or sell my apartment. What difference does it make for them? Once I am back on track they will get it back in tax anyway...

Snoogans

pigvon wrote: »

I have already done all what you are suggesting here in that exact order. I have applied to SW on June 1th and each time I go there they are saying that I have to wait. About a month ago as I run out of the money completely I went to my local HSE officer and asked him for assistance. After 3 weeks I got a letter that they value my apartment in Poland for approx 85 000 euro and according to their calculator it should be making weekly profit of 244 euro. (all bull***t) Therefore I am entitled to nothing and staying in Ireland is only my own choice and responsibility. The fact is that I am making exactly 0 euro on this apartment as I can not rent it if I want to sell it and even then the rental potential is only about 250 euro per month. If I had the 85 000 euro in my bank account I wouldn't claim social welfare in the first place. There is a difference between having an apartment 2000 miles away that I am trying to sale and having the money. I can not go to the shop and exchange a square centimeter of my apartment for a peace of bread. Hopefully I'll get that job and won't have to deal with those people never again. Ireland is my home for the last 6 years, I speak the language, I have become almost like yourselves by now and I don't even know anyone in Poland anymore. I don't want to claim social welfare for a number of years - all I need is a temporary help until I get a job or sell my apartment. What difference does it make for them? Once I am back on track they will get it back in tax anyway...

Sounds to me like you stand a reasonable chance of appealing their decision. Especially if you ahve any photographs etc of the apartment to show them it's not worth as much as they think.

pigvon

Snoogans wrote: »

Sounds to me like you stand a reasonable chance of appealing their decision. Especially if you ahve any photographs etc of the apartment to show them it's not worth as much as they think.

It is worth that much according to their books - there is only one small problem - there is no buyer and the true value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it.
How can a property worth 85 000 generate a profit of 244 euro per week? That I don't understand.

Realistically how much would the apartment earn rented out per month ? At the risk if sounding abrupt every month it's not rented you are losing money.

pigvon

RoverJames wrote: »

Realistically how much would the apartment earn rented out per month ? At the risk if sounding abrupt every month it's not rented you are losing money.

I can get about 250 euro per month from students once the academic year begins and I have decided to do that instead of trying to sell it - it will help me to pay off my debts in time. It looks like I will have a job soon, so my struggle will come to an end. I just think it is disgusting that despite paying taxes for all those years: income tax, road tax, vat in every single product or service I paid for etc.. I am being told f*** o** to Poland your life is not our problem... That is just not fair in situation where there are thousands of people who are in receipt of social welfare payment for years without even trying to look for a job - everybody knows that...

dory

I'm so sorry to hear about this situation, but it looks like things are looking up now. Best of luck with the job, I hope you get it sorted out. You sound like a really decent guy.

pigvon

dory wrote: »

I'm so sorry to hear about this situation, but it looks like things are looking up now. Best of luck with the job, I hope you get it sorted out. You sound like a really decent guy.

Thank you. I just hope that something will change in this system, because there are so many people in similar situation to mine and they are just left there on their own.

Ian Mac

I sympathise with you to a point , I lived and worked in Poland (lucky to get a job) and I got treated very badly , the myth of no Irish allowed is true a right kick in the teeth , only for my gf being Polish I got a job in Poctza Polska (Post Office) , 2400zl a month (600 euro) , tough living in Warsaw on that money , no one willing to employ me because I was Irish , I as a european/irish citizen felt used hearing how when the polish people get free medical and open arm privileges in Ireland (to which I overheard many Poles boast about) and I personally got nothing , its a terrible circle!

Citizens Information offices are very useful here , free legal aid is offered once a month there also.


Wszystkiego najlepszego!

Ian Mac

RoverJames wrote: »

Fair play to you, best of luck with the new job, I hope it works out well for you. That b1tch that you spoke to in the Citizens Info place sounds a right cnut.

5 billion has left Ireland since the arrival of foreign nationals all of 10-15 years ago , alot of money that could have been well spent here on much wanted things instead we're picking up the pieces , you might say how dare she now but you know yourself you're cynical to alot of motives made and given to foreign nationals , when us gullible Irish are drinking our tears struggling to pay off our mortgage or simply put food on the table.


We as a nation were too nice and its about time we bit back , that attitude although incorrectly worded is neede where are foreign countries to bail our people (not banks) out when the going gets tough , when we done it for many years.