Healy-Rea on Today Fm

Doom

Well whats your opinion of him on the Last word yesterday? He sounds like a right chancer, wouldn't even give a straight answer.....as bad a FF

liammur

Is he a pig farmer?

Didnt hear him on the radio, but i had the misfortune of seeing him on tv before.

Reflects very badly on us that he can make it to the dail.

super_furry

Heard it myself. He's obviously lacking in economic policy knowledge and was genuinely stumped by several questions. He's the worse example of a goombeen politician in Ireland, and it's trying baffling how his constituants actually vote for him.

danbohan

super_furry wrote: »

Heard it myself. He's obviously lacking in economic policy knowledge and was genuinely stumped by several questions. He's the worse example of a goombeen politician in Ireland, and it's trying baffling how his constituants actually vote for him.

indeed its a mystery to me why the culchie gombeens vote for healy raes and the likes , surely those sopistacated urbane super intelligent dubliners would never vote for anything dumb like that , so explain me the bert and gormless and that bicycle shop minster ,sadly stupidy in this blessed isle is nationwide .

liammur

There's no doubt we're the architects of our own downfall voting for the likes of ahern, and healy rae - just to mention 2.

flutered

can any one show me 3 tds that do not lack economic know how.

danbohan

flutered wrote: »

can any one show me 3 tds that do not lack economic know how.

do you mean now or in our entire history since independance ?

View

Doom wrote: »

Well whats your opinion of him on the Last word yesterday? He sounds like a right chancer, wouldn't even give a straight answer.....as bad a FF

I was in Kerry at the last election. His election posters were clearly marked as "Independent Fianna Fail". Surprisingly, Fianna Fail didn't seem to have a problem with this usurping of their "trademark" by him.

As for the chancer, I suspect you'd find, he dumbs down and does a "man of the people" act. If I remember rightly, a fellow politician on one of the Dail committees said that more than one senior civil servant has come off on the wrong end of a dissection from JHR when appearing before the committee with half-baked information.

doc_17

He's slower than soil erosion

liammur

3 tds.....i'd go for: ruairi quinn, noonan, r bruton - and in that order.

Not sure if r quinn is still a td ?

Tora Bora

danbohan wrote: »

do you mean now or in our entire history since independance ?

What independence?

eden_my_ass

A member of parliament in Ireland represents first and foremost (and in many cases solely) the interests of their local constituency. Jackie Healy Rae does this, and has done this well for years. Hence he gets voted back in time and again. Simples

I'm not pretending this is the way to govern a country but I don't see why people keep asking this question over and over in wonderment, our system does not work, it never really has properly. Few of our national politicians are capable or have the time to think nationally because they are too busy holding local clinics and getting potholes filled and planning permissions tweaked, its a flawed system and unless it changes to separate national interest from local it will continue to be so. End of...

Liam Byrne

Is that the muppet that refused point-blank to answer Anton Savage's question about whether the expenses system was wrong by repeatedly saying "it's the system, it's the system" ?

Top-notch interviewing by Savage.....showing up the idiot for what he is - someone with zero interest in fixing the problems.

Drumpot

danbohan wrote: »

indeed its a mystery to me why the culchie gombeens vote for healy raes and the likes , surely those sopistacated urbane super intelligent dubliners would never vote for anything dumb like that , so explain me the bert and gormless and that bicycle shop minster ,sadly stupidy in this blessed isle is nationwide .

This isnt a Dublin v Country thing, its an intelligence v idiot thing . .

There are plenty of cringeworthy idiotic politicians and plenty of clever politicians who will feck things up. Healy Rae comes across as a complete an utter thicko, who's sons are also screwing us for every expense possible. (coming on radio and saying they only get 349 per week after claiming over 200k in expenses! Either they are idiots, they think we are idiots or they just arent very good at maths!). . .Its not just his accent, ANYTIME I have heard him he comes across as pretty poorly educated in whatever he is talking about..

Bertie being voted in was understandable, although hindsight would suggest otherwise. At the time he had shown intelligence and leadership (Healy Rae has never shown either) and the country seemed to be doing well under his tenure. The fact that he brought our country to its knees just shows that he fooled us all (or really that he just got caught up in his own hype and never saw the crash coming) . .

How anybody could ever be fooled by the complete and utter lack of intelligence that Rae shows is beyond me and unforgivable. With that in mind what other conclusion can anybody come to as to why he gets voted in ? Would you want "ernest saves christmas" running the country ?

Sergeant

It was Michael Healy Rae. Cut from the same cloth as the Father. In fairness, himself and the brother are easy to put on the front of a paper, they don't appear to have been dipping into the greasy till anymore than other fine upstanding councillers around the country.

RichardAnd

Drumpot wrote: »

Bertie being voted in was understandable, although hindsight would suggest otherwise. At the time he had shown intelligence and leadership (Healy Rae has never shown either) and the country seemed to be doing well under his tenure. The fact that he brought our country to its knees just shows that he fooled us all (or really that he just got caught up in his own hype and never saw the crash coming) . . How anybody could ever be fooled by the complete and utter lack of intelligence that Rae shows is beyond me and unforgivable.

Whilst I don't think much of ahern, I doubt he deliberately steered Ireland towards Recession. Rather, I think it was simply a case of not wanting to admit he was wrong and not having the decency to do the right thing. Hardly forgiveable either way mind.

Anyway, as to Healy Rea, well he would be the number one example of how people in this country vote. The guy gets elected again and again because he's the man his constituents vote for and it's really as simple as that. In his local area, I think he actually gets things done so when election time rolls around, people won't be thinking of the bigger picture but of the man who got that pothole filled or bought them a pint of whatever.

donkey balls

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Is that the muppet that refused point-blank to answer Anton Savage's question about whether the expenses system was wrong by repeatedly saying "it's the system, it's the system" ?

Top-notch interviewing by Savage.....showing up the idiot for what he is - someone with zero interest in fixing the problems.

at first i thought it was gift grub liam:D

Head The Wall

Sergeant wrote: »

It was Michael Healy Rae. Cut from the same cloth as the Father. In fairness, himself and the brother are easy to put on the front of a paper, they don't appear to have been dipping into the greasy till anymore than other fine upstanding councillers around the country.

One of the brothers is a councillor and the highest paid contractor by the very council he serves on. There's definitely no conflict there and if there is "It's the System, It's the System"

Tora Bora

Head The Wall wrote: »

One of the brothers is a councillor and the highest paid contractor by the very council he serves on. There's definitely no conflict there and if there is "It's the System, It's the System"

They all "ate their dinner in the middle of the day", you know:cool:

Tora Bora

Victory speech http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PYbIGmQFLY

fontanalis

Sergeant wrote: »

It was Michael Healy Rae. Cut from the same cloth as the Father. In fairness, himself and the brother are easy to put on the front of a paper, they don't appear to have been dipping into the greasy till anymore than other fine upstanding councillers around the country.

The sh1t doesn't fall far from the bat.

wobbles-grogan

Politicions like this prove to me at least, that we need more business minded people with some actual smarts to be in power. Someone like Micheal O'Leary would be a great minister for finance, or at least a spokesman for finance on the competition side, to keep the other side in check... just sayin like.

And yes, a previous poster had it right, OUR SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!

jmayo

View wrote: »

...
As for the chancer, I suspect you'd find, he dumbs down and does a "man of the people" act. If I remember rightly, a fellow politician on one of the Dail committees said that more than one senior civil servant has come off on the wrong end of a dissection from JHR when appearing before the committee with half-baked information.

From what I have been told he does the election rounds in a beat up banger and keeps the fancy newer car out of sight.

liammur wrote: »

3 tds.....i'd go for: ruairi quinn, noonan, r bruton - and in that order.

Not sure if r quinn is still a td ?

Yes he is and one of our best minsiters for finance.
Oh and AFAIK he was using public transport to get to the Dail long before the greens ever got their ar**es next or near the place.
He wasn't making a bloody song and dance about it neither.

Drumpot wrote: »

...
Bertie being voted in was understandable, although hindsight would suggest otherwise. At the time he had shown intelligence and leadership (Healy Rae has never shown either) and the country seemed to be doing well under his tenure. The fact that he brought our country to its knees just shows that he fooled us all (or really that he just got caught up in his own hype and never saw the crash coming) . .

How anybody could ever be fooled by the complete and utter lack of intelligence that Rae shows is beyond me and unforgivable. With that in mind what other conclusion can anybody come to as to why he gets voted in ? Would you want "ernest saves christmas" running the country ?

Actually I claim voting for bertie was far less undertandable than voting for healy-rae.
ahern had proven to be dodgy with a lot longer list of unexplainable actions and unexplainable financial tranasctions than healy-rae could ever dream of.
Yet you hold him in higher esteem because he exhibited more leadership and supposedly more intelligence ?
Do you rate moral fibre and ethics low down on your list of requirements in a public representative ?

Not saying healy-rae is some shingin light when it comes to any of the above.

BTW speak for yourself when you claim bertie fooled us all. :mad:

liammur

Good points re bertie ahern. His book was a desperate seller, people copped onto him too late unfortunately. He was very slow to give back his pension too. He saw himself right at every turn, reminds me a bit like callely. When he came out with his suicide comments, I can't understand how we allowed him to continue as taoiseach.

Mr.Micro

liammur wrote: »

Good points re bertie ahern. His book was a desperate seller, people copped onto him too late unfortunately. He was very slow to give back his pension too. He saw himself right at every turn, reminds me a bit like callely. When he came out with his suicide comments, I can't understand how we allowed him to continue as taoiseach.

People should have copped on sooner when they saw some of the loud clothes he was wearing.......ie clown clothes and then he started telling jokes at the tribunal. Enough said.

liammur

Correct.

Will he go down as the worst leader we ever had? Or would haughey be regarded as worse?

Doom

Ah well, time will tell.....am sure he's far from the 'nice, down to earth, i'll look after kerrray people' man he claims to be, if he was he would admit that councillers and Mayors do not need a big expense account.
The people deserve the fools they elect...:D

McDougal

The Healy-Reas consider themselves to be independent Fianna Fáil.

Drumpot

jmayo wrote: »

Actually I claim voting for bertie was far less undertandable than voting for healy-rae.
ahern had proven to be dodgy with a lot longer list of unexplainable actions and unexplainable financial tranasctions than healy-rae could ever dream of.
Yet you hold him in higher esteem because he exhibited more leadership and supposedly more intelligence ?
Do you rate moral fibre and ethics low down on your list of requirements in a public representative ?

Not saying healy-rae is some shingin light when it comes to any of the above.

BTW speak for yourself when you claim bertie fooled us all. :mad:

Wrong . . . .

Where did I say I held bertie in high esteem ?

Bertie was capable of running a country . . We now know that he was not capable of having the foresight to plan for the bad years, but he was able to run it . . Nobody could foresee what would happen . .

Healy Rae hasnt even the public appearance of being competent or intelligent. .

Voting in Bertie after his disgraceful performance in the tribunal showed lack of moral courage, but it still did not disguise the fact that the country had been doing well under his tenure (and afterall that is a taoiseachs job, to run the country). But what you speak of is a completely differant argument, your about morals v cute hoors . So you assume Healy Rae is morally sound and his sons with their 200k expenses . . ;0

If Bertie is re-elected now then there is something wrong with his constituants but in terms of being a leader of the country in 2007, they voted for a competent politician.

Fool me once, shame on you. . Fool me twice shame on me . .

Fool me when I am voting for a complete and utter obvious moron . . Shame on you . .

In terms of Competency of being able to do a good job for the country, Bertie in 2007 looked a far more credible (if not dodgy) candidate as a politician then Healy Rae . .

McDougal

wobbles-grogan wrote: »

Politicions like this prove to me at least, that we need more business minded people with some actual smarts to be in power. Someone like Micheal O'Leary would be a great minister for finance, or at least a spokesman for finance on the competition side, to keep the other side in check... just sayin like.

And yes, a previous poster had it right, OUR SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!

Any poster who claims Michael O'Leary would be a good finance minister should be negated.

liammur

In fairness, there is no comparison between healy-rae and ahern. Healy-rae is not presentable,

Drumpot,however, a comment such as this blatantly wrong

'Nobody could foresee what would happen '

Ahern was warned several times by the Economist etc that the economy was overheating.
His reply was the 'doomsdayers should commit suicide'

Drumpot

McDougal wrote: »

Any poster who claims Michael O'Leary would be a good finance minister should be negated.

I agree, but i know what the poster is getting at . .

Many of our politicians really and truely dont understand the hardships of the working man, therefore how could they possibly understand what hardship and fairness is . . (Sure we only get a paltry 100k + expenses, how can we live on that!). .

The public service mirrors its government for this very reason. People with no business accuman (fear of losing job, hard work ethics) or without the desire or targets to work at opimum level . .

The reason people think of Michael O'Leary because while he would seriously cut the Fk out of the public service, he would most definitely break the Union cartel, have a competent, hard working public service and would savagly cut their costs on the state. Now there would be obvious serious ramifications directly and indirectly (masses unemployed etc) , but the concept is sound in terms of trying to squeeze the most out of taxpayers hard earned cash . .

But, in politics, invariably the right thing will piss off too many constituants so its best not to rock boats or do whats good for the country, so you can keep your perks at least for another 5 years . .

Drumpot

liammur wrote: »

In fairness, there is no comparison between healy-rae and ahern. Healy-rae is not presentable,

Drumpot,however, a comment such as this blatantly wrong

'Nobody could foresee what would happen '

Ahern was warned several times by the Economist etc that the economy was overheating.
His reply was the 'doomsdayers should commit suicide'

Im talking about electorate when I say "nobody could foresee what would happen" . .

Everybody can see Healy Rae is a twat with no redeemable qualities . . Bertie was able to run the country and in 2007, people had no reasson to believe otherwise . . Yes he was dodgy, but still able to run the country . .

In all fairness, the average joe wouldnt know much about external economics or the dynamics of a house boom . .

This side topic was started when somebody brought up Ahern as some sort of weak defence of the Healy Rae Supporters . .

liammur

M O Leary would be a nightmare in politics imo. More radical than the republicans in the US. Pandering to big businesses, things like special needs schools could be shut. A delicate balance is required.

liammur

Drumpot, I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think ahern was able to run the country, unless you mean run it into the ground.

McDougal

Drumpot wrote: »

I agree, but i know what the poster is getting at . .

Many of our politicians really and truely dont understand the hardships of the working man, therefore how could they possibly understand what hardship and fairness is . . (Sure we only get a paltry 100k + expenses, how can we live on that!). .

The public service mirrors its government for this very reason. People with no business accuman (fear of losing job, hard work ethics) or without the desire or targets to work at opimum level . .

The reason people think of Michael O'Leary because while he would seriously cut the Fk out of the public service, he would most definitely break the Union cartel, have a competent, hard working public service and would savagly cut their costs on the state. Now there would be obvious serious ramifications directly and indirectly (masses unemployed etc) , but the concept is sound in terms of trying to squeeze the most out of taxpayers hard earned cash . .

But, in politics, invariably the right thing will piss off too many constituants so its best not to rock boats or do whats good for the country, so you can keep your perks at least for another 5 years . .

So you think people want more Michael O'Leary style exploitation? I can see it now. Nurses in hospitals working on commission while going round to all the patients on trolleys trying to flog scratchcards. St. Stephens Green privatised and admission of €10 charged. Public buildings covered in Coca Cola logos. The minimum wage abolished. The streets slowly filling up with litter and puke. Cows grazing in the pheonix park. Homeless folks begging everywhere. Oh what a dream come true!

steamengine

liammur wrote: »

In fairness, there is no comparison between healy-rae and ahern. Healy-rae is not presentable,

Drumpot,however, a comment such as this blatantly wrong

'Nobody could foresee what would happen '

Ahern was warned several times by the Economist etc that the economy was overheating.
His reply was the 'doomsdayers should commit suicide'

Yes indeed - at least four economists flagged the overheating economy. One was Peter Bacon and that was around 2004 - on a radio interview as I recall it. The other was Alan Aherne, from about 2006 on, in his Sunday Independent column. In fact his weekly predictions were uncannily accurate. Also David McWilliams and George Lee. Clearly their 'crystal balls ' were from a different batch!

Drumpot

liammur wrote: »

Drumpot, I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think ahern was able to run the country, unless you mean run it into the ground.

Again, we are talking about the electorate voting him in . . In 2007, leading a "booming" Ireland, people would of said otherwise and voting in a "corrupt" Bertie didnt matter once the country was doing well. .

Drumpot

McDougal wrote: »

So you think people want more Michael O'Leary style exploitation? I can see it now. Nurses in hospitals working on commission while going round to all the patients on trolleys trying to flog scratchcards. St. Stephens Green privatised and admission of €10 charged. Public buildings covered in Coca Cola logos. The minimum wage abolished. The streets slowly filling up with litter and puke. Cows grazing in the pheonix park. Homeless folks begging everywhere. Oh what a dream come true!

No , I said I understand why people think Michael O'Leary would be a good finance minister, not that I thought people would want him . . There is a huge differance .

With all the wastage of taxpayers money to line certain public servants and used to protect them from the true harsh reality of the recession, its not surprising that people want to see their money go further . .

As I stated, there would be serious ramifications if O'Leary was in that position , but I understand the concept of getting somebody with actual experience in running a business on a budget, when we have politicians with little regard for "other peoples money" (taxpayers).

McDougal

Drumpot wrote: »

No , I said I understand why people think Michael O'Leary would be a good finance minister, not that I thought people would want him . . There is a huge differance .

With all the wastage of taxpayers money to line certain public servants and used to protect them from the true harsh reality of the recession, its not surprising that people want to see their money go further . .

As I stated, there would be serious ramifications if O'Leary was in that position , but I understand the concept of getting somebody with actual experience in running a business on a budget, when we have politicians with little regard for "other peoples money" (taxpayers).

I don't pay any income tax. Does this mean I'm not allowed an opinion on how public money is spent? I reject this notion that the money belongs to taxpayers. The money collected in income tax belongs to the state and not individuals.

Drumpot

steamengine wrote: »

Yes indeed - at least two economists flagged the overheating economy. One was Peter Bacon and that was around 2004 - on a radio interview as I recall it. The other was Alan Aherne, from about 2006 on, in his Sunday Independent column. In fact his weekly predictions were uncannily accurate. Clearly their 'crystal balls ' were from a different batch!

At least 2 ? That many eh ..

Whats funny is that if FF had brought in measures to try to slow down the economy they would prob of been voted out and the opposition would of spent more . . I have to laugh when people think that the opposition party would of done any better . If anything they wanted to spend more . . Do you know why ? Because thats what the public wanted . .

Oh yes . . Things could of been done far better then the way they were, but it could of also been worse . . The people to blame are the public because a government gives the people what it wants (lots of property and mortgages) and the opposition tells the people what they want to hear (more spending, lower taxes) . .

Yes . Bertie (or any government) would of been in power between 97-07) had he said that he was going to higher taxes, make it harder to get a mortgage, properly assess benchmarking and try to put money aside for a rainy day . .:rolleyes:

Either you didnt vote or you voted for a politician (government or opposition) that would of done little differant to what actually happened . . So like I always say, the entire electorate is to blame for wanting the boom to continue . .

jmayo

Drumpot wrote: »

Wrong . . . .

Where did I say I held bertie in high esteem ?

Bertie was capable of running a country . . We now know that he was not capable of having the foresight to plan for the bad years, but he was able to run it . . Nobody could foresee what would happen . .

Healy Rae hasnt even the public appearance of being competent or intelligent. .

Well you are holding him in higher esteem when you are lauding him as someone who was a good capable leader of the country.
What did he do ? oh yeah inflated a bubble even more and spent wads of cash that was coming in from the bubble with absolutely no eye on the future or indeed the mess being created.

From an expert point of view Morgan Kelly, Alan Aherne were sounding warning bells, but they were belittled by ff and all the lackies.

Actually some of us, even non economists, could see the country was in for a hell of a shock as all bubbles usually end.
Go back to before 2007 election and I will bet you find posts by some posters here who were criticising his handling of the eoncomy.

Of course none of us mere mortals knew how badly the banks had been run. :mad:

Drumpot wrote: »

Voting in Bertie after his disgraceful performance in the tribunal showed lack of moral courage, but it still did not disguise the fact that the country had been doing well under his tenure (and afterall that is a taoiseachs job, to run the country). But what you speak of is a completely differant argument, your about morals v cute hoors . So you assume Healy Rae is morally sound and his sons with their 200k expenses . . ;0

Actually the country was not really doing well.
There had been a haemorrhaging of real jobs that were masked by jobs created in retail and construction, both sectors depending on cheap credit.
The health system was an absolute joke costing billions.

Just because I lambast bertie doesn't mean I somehow think healy-are or his spawn are good.
I just think one can not say voting for an unethical gouger like bertie is somehow way better than voting for healy-rae.

Drumpot wrote: »

If Bertie is re-elected now then there is something wrong with his constituants but in terms of being a leader of the country in 2007, they voted for a competent politician.

Fool me once, shame on you. . Fool me twice shame on me . .

Fool me when I am voting for a complete and utter obvious moron . . Shame on you . .

In terms of Competency of being able to do a good job for the country, Bertie in 2007 looked a far more credible (if not dodgy) candidate as a politician then Healy Rae . .

Once again you appear to have bought the cr** that the economy was in good shape in 2007.
It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Of course we didn't know it would be the world's biggest disaster. :rolleyes:

Drumpot

McDougal wrote: »

I don't pay any income tax. Does this mean I'm not allowed an opinion on how public money is spent? I reject this notion that the money belongs to taxpayers. The money collected in income tax belongs to the state and not individuals.

Ok . . So now that we see you didnt read/understand my original post correctly, you are getting yourself upset and looking for an argument about something completely differant ?

I never said that , but that doesnt seem to really matter . . :rolleyes:

Doom

steamengine wrote: »

Yes indeed - at least four economists flagged the overheating economy. One was Peter Bacon and that was around 2004 - on a radio interview as I recall it. The other was Alan Aherne, from about 2006 on, in his Sunday Independent column. In fact his weekly predictions were uncannily accurate. Also David McWilliams and George Lee. Clearly their 'crystal balls ' were from a different batch!

Alan Aherne must have hit a nerve, cause they brought him in as an adviser...or to shut him up

McDougal

Drumpot wrote: »

Ok . . So now that we see you didnt read/understand my original post correctly, you are getting yourself upset and looking for an argument about something completely differant ?

I never said that , but that doesnt seem to really matter . . :rolleyes:

You said taxpayers' getting value for money. Public services are not just for taxpayers they are for everyone. And anyway there is no suchthing as taxpayers money, it is public money.

dan_d

With regard to the original post - and I'm not trying to be funny...

I cannot understand half of what the Healy-Rae's say. Any of them.And the little I do make out, I absolutely cringe at because their complete ignorance never fails to astound me. They are a total joke.

As said before...our system does not work. I've been beating this drum for some time now - Irish politics is by far too parochial.

In fact I think it's time for me to start writing some letters/emails and harassing local politicans about this.

Doom

dan_d wrote: »

With regard to the original post - and I'm not trying to be funny...

I cannot understand half of what the Healy-Rae's say. Any of them.And the little I do make out, I absolutely cringe at because their complete ignorance never fails to astound me. They are a total joke.

As said before...our system does not work. I've been beating this drum for some time now - Irish politics is by far too parochial.

In fact I think it's time for me to start writing some letters/emails and harassing local politicans about this.

Well said, but where would we send them.....I think the people will act, sooner than later and I can see a few politicians getting a few slaps, especially when FF are trying to show that you can in fact take blood from a stone....more taxes

Drumpot

jmayo wrote: »

Well you are holding him in higher esteem when you are lauding him as someone who was a good capable leader of the country.
What did he do ? oh yeah inflated a bubble even more and spent wads of cash that was coming in from the bubble with absolutely no eye on the future or indeed the mess being created.

From an expert point of view Morgan Kelly, Alan Aherne were sounding warning bells, but they were belittled by ff and all the lackies.

Actually some of us, even non economists, could see the country was in for a hell of a shock as all bubbles usually end.
Go back to before 2007 election and I will bet you find posts by some posters here who were criticising his handling of the eoncomy.

Of course none of us mere mortals knew how badly the banks had been run. :mad:



Actually the country was not really doing well.
There had been a haemorrhaging of real jobs that were masked by jobs created in retail and construction, both sectors depending on cheap credit.
The health system was an absolute joke costing billions.

Just because I lambast bertie doesn't mean I somehow think healy-are or his spawn are good.
I just think one can not say voting for an unethical gouger like bertie is somehow way better than voting for healy-rae.




Once again you appear to have bought the cr** that the economy was in good shape in 2007.
It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Of course we didn't know it would be the world's biggest disaster. :rolleyes:

Are you actually serious ?

In any crisis situation there are always signs that the crisis was coming down the road AFTERWARDS . . The hindsight brigade always knew it was coming and love to tell everybody that it was obvious, they refer to "a few people" who predicted it, as if that qualifies their opinion . .

I will obviously have to break this down as it seems to be difficult for some to differentiate between being a politician that was able to run a country, but subsequently made bad decisions that led to the countries demise, to being an obviously incompetent, poorly educated one that has and never will look capable of answering simple queries in a vodafone call centre . .

Bertie - Confident speaker, leadership qualities, staying power, people person, liked abroad (positive spin on Ireland), worked hard (love him or hate him), able to lead a party
- Dodgy dealings, ultimatley believed his own hype and unintentionally led the country to bankrupcy.

Healy Rae - Eh, he can get you a grant if needs be . . Sounds stupid when discussing anything outside of his limited intelligence . .Relates to his constituants . . Presumption is that he is morally sound despite the fact he has two sons claiming over 200k in expenses . . Do apples fall that far from trees?

Never ceases to amaze me how people on boards can be so delusional . . I dont for one second think that Bertie is not corrupt, but he was a good politician and brought the country in the direction that the people wanted . . You need only look at the promises the oppositon party were making to see that things could of been worse . .

People just dont seem to be able to seperate their anger for Bertie for proper analysis of his actual credibility as a leader . . A corrupt leader means the morals and ethics of the nation need to be questioned. . It doesnt mean you cant have a corrupt leader who is good at their job . .

Coming on here and saying "it was obvious that he was leading us to ruins" is just Joe Duffy rant talk and involves alot of faith from the other members of the board . . Given the state of the rest of the world it looks like ever other country got it wrong in some fashion . . But, the main thing is that he gave the country what they wanted and pretty much what every other opposition party was offering for a chance to get into power . .

It doesnt make it right, it doesnt make him the best politician ever, but in 2007 it was very very right to call Bertie a supremely superior competent politician to Healy Rae . .

Ok ok .. Here is the litmus test . . Ridiculous as this argument is . .

All politicians get killed except for Healy Rae and Bertie . . Nobody else wants to be a politician so we are left with these two to run the country . . There are some important meetings coming up

- ECB (we need to get funding to keep economy moving, how do we persuade them we are a credible nation moving forward?)
- Multinational companies (we need a minister to convince them to move to Ireland and invest in our educated workforce)
- Farmers (they want more subsidies)
- Public service workers (threatening strike action if there is no negotiations)
- Budget (somebody has to work on it!)
- Unemployment initiatives (new ways to reduce unemployment)
- Banks (what economical decisions do we make on them?)

Im sure there are others but I just thought of a few important things that might arise . . How many of them, or others would you be confident that Healy Rae could competently pull off ?

Even though Cute Hooer is normally bandied around as a bad thing, in politics, particularly negotiating with external interests, it can be a thing of beauty .

McDougal

dan_d wrote: »

With regard to the original post - and I'm not trying to be funny...

I cannot understand half of what the Healy-Rae's say. Any of them.And the little I do make out, I absolutely cringe at because their complete ignorance never fails to astound me. They are a total joke.

As said before...our system does not work. I've been beating this drum for some time now - Irish politics is by far too parochial.

In fact I think it's time for me to start writing some letters/emails and harassing local politicans about this.

I can understand Michael although I wish I couldn't with the nonsense he speaks. I would need a translation for what Jackie says though.

steamengine

Drumpot wrote: »

At least 2 ? That many eh ..

Whats funny is that if FF had brought in measures to try to slow down the economy they would prob of been voted out and the opposition would of spent more . . I have to laugh when people think that the opposition party would of done any better . If anything they wanted to spend more . . Do you know why ? Because thats what the public wanted . .

Oh yes . . Things could of been done far better then the way they were, but it could of also been worse . . The people to blame are the public because a government gives the people what it wants (lots of property and mortgages) and the opposition tells the people what they want to hear (more spending, lower taxes) . .

Yes . Bertie (or any government) would of been in power between 97-07) had he said that he was going to higher taxes, make it harder to get a mortgage, properly assess benchmarking and try to put money aside for a rainy day . .:rolleyes:

Either you didnt vote or you voted for a politician (government or opposition) that would of done little differant to what actually happened . . So like I always say, the entire electorate is to blame for wanting the boom to continue . .

At least 4 economists - if you care to re-read my edited post. They were labelled 'Prophets of Doom' - do you remember that ?

It's simple - the government chose not to heed the warnings !

Blaming the electorate is just another convenient 'red herring'.

No doubt that line won't be pushed too hard coming up to the 2012 election.

steamengine

Drumpot wrote: »

Im talking about electorate when I say "nobody could foresee what would happen" . .

Everybody can see Healy Rae is a twat with no redeemable qualities . . Bertie was able to run the country and in 2007, people had no reasson to believe otherwise . . Yes he was dodgy, but still able to run the country . .

In all fairness, the average joe wouldnt know much about external economics or the dynamics of a house boom . .

This side topic was started when somebody brought up Ahern as some sort of weak defence of the Healy Rae Supporters . .

Your dismissal of the electorate's ability to foresee or its comprehension of economics is a tad arrogant IMO. Joe Soap reads newspapers these days and pays attention to what the heavyweights in the world of economics have to say.