Failure to stop at a Garda Checkpoint

conf101

Hey, quick question. I was driving home tonight with a friend (she was driving) and we came to a garda checkpoint, she thought the guard was waving her through so she continued driving but it turns out he was actually telling her to stop. The guard followed and pulled us over. He checked her licence, she only has a provisional but that wasn't a problem because we had a fully licenced driver in the car with us. He took her details and told her she'd be issued with a summons. Just wondering does anyone know what the summons will entail? As in will it be a fine + penalty points or will it be a court appearance?

Cheers

jaffa20

Did she has L plates displayed? Did they for licence of the fully qualified driver?

If it was for failure to stop for a guard then it looks like 80euro fine and 2 penalty points...

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/assets/pdf/new_penpoints_chart_apl09.pdf

Was the fully licensed driver sitting in the passenger seat and has held it for 2 years?

NewApproach

Would it not have been easier to just ask the guard?

brendansmith

NewApproach wrote: »

Would it not have been easier to just ask the guard?

No. Thats exactly what he be expecting them to do.

anthony4335

I would just try and contact the garda first and explain her case. If this does not work she will possibly go to court but I would imagine that with a witness in the car she might get off with the explaination that she though that he was waving her on.
I do however feel sorry for her, as on more than one occassion I have come up to a check point and wether it is that the garda is tired, or would rather be doing anything else their hand gestures have not been the clearest. I just always roll down the window and stop until I get some sort of acknowlegment for the person.

bmstuff

Did she wave at the guard when she was let go?

Seriously you come through a checkpoint you drive dead slow (1. For the own guardai safety because he/she is on foot, 2. Because it is a bloody checkpoint) you drop the window and you look at the guard to see if he means business or not.
The guard should not have to jump in his car to get you, speed must have been high.

sean1141

bmstuff wrote: »

The guard should not have to jump in his car to get you, speed must have been high.

well in all fairness you dont think he was going to run after a car on possible busy road!;)
this happened with a mate of mine once. he thought the guard was waving him on. i got the fright of my life when he drove straight true the checkpoint. i had to tell him to stop and pull over. lucky enough there was room just down from the checkpoint to pull over and the guard came down. stuck his head in the window asked names etc and just says to be more carefull the next time after my mate said sorry for not stopping that he thought he was waving him on. lucky enough it was the local guard.

as above i nearly always stop at a checkpoint with the window down till i get a wave on or a 'go on ahead'!

feelites

if all discs were in date, there were L plates on the car and qualified fella in the car with full licence held for more than 2 years, then she will end it up in the court with warning only

bmstuff

sean1141 wrote: »

well in all fairness you dont think he was going to run after a car on possible busy road!;)

Yeah sure but if the speed was low he would just had to bang on the roof or so, obviously the car was too quick for him to do that.

eoferrall

bmstuff wrote: »

Yeah sure but if the speed was low he would just had to bang on the roof or so, obviously the car was too quick for him to do that.

or the driver wasn't trying to run him over?!

I have never been at a check point the gard would have been close enough to bang on the car. always have to take a couple of steps from centre of road to the car. I have never been at a check point on a narrow road. usually good wide straight.

Rovi

While most Gardai at most checkpoints are definite and clear in their hand directions, I have come across the occasional one who was making vague hand-flappy motions that could be interpreted as anything.
I can see how a new driver or someone who had never previously encountered such a situation could roll through a checkpoint thinking they were being waved on, while the Garda's intentions were otherwise.

These days, unless the Garda's directions to stay going are very clear and unambiguous, I'll roll up with the window down and with the intention to stop right beside them until/unless they tell me to go ahead.

sean1141

bmstuff wrote: »

Yeah sure but if the speed was low he would just had to bang on the roof or so, obviously the car was too quick for him to do that.

or maybe he was checking both sides of the road and thought the driver would stop. if the driver was going that fast im sure the guard would have done her for speeding or dangerous driving

AndyC555

Similar thing happened to me about a year ago. The garda's hand signal was sloppy and confusing at best and I took it to be a wave to continue. He ran after the car shouting stop. I did and explained I thought he had waved me on.

topper75

This confusion happened me but he just shot me a dirty stare.

There was no mal intent on your (friend's) part. I'd contest it. As pointed out above by other posters, the garda hand signalling is often poorly done. The court has to take this into account.

bmstuff

Alright fair enough for the feedbacks, I suppose some have a sloppy hand then.

omega man

Had the opposite of this before. Garda speed check where a garda clearly indicated to my wife to pull over. Another Garda pulled the car behind in also and after 5 minutes dealing with the car behind the Garda came to us and in a very smart tone asked "are you looking for directions or something?". I really wanted to rant at him but thought better and my wife was just happy she hadnt been done. All the lad had to do was say he got the wrong car first. Our car and the other one pulled were almost identical cars so it was an honest mistake but no he had to be a total .......:mad:

ToxicPaddy

bmstuff wrote: »

Did she wave at the guard when she was let go?

Seriously you come through a checkpoint you drive dead slow (1. For the own guardai safety because he/she is on foot, 2. Because it is a bloody checkpoint) you drop the window and you look at the guard to see if he means business or not....

Have to agree here, always drive very very slowly with my window down, stereo off and listening to the Garda's instructions.. if they are happy, they will wave you on and usually say so while doing it..

I think the OP's friend was assuming a little too much and will be lucky if they don't have the book thrown at them..

Tox

djimi

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Have to agree here, always drive very very slowly with my window down, stereo off and listening to the Garda's instructions.. if they are happy, they will wave you on and usually say so while doing it..

I think the OP's friend was assuming a little too much and will be lucky if they don't have the book thrown at them..

Tox

I agree with what you say about how to approach the checkpoint, but I dont think that they will (or at least dont deserve to) have the book thrown at them tbh. Leaner driver who by the sounds of it was one of the minority who actually obey the rules, probably nervous at first checkpoint, okay did something stupid but stopped when asked to (didnt just keep driving oblivious to what is going on). It sounds like an honest mistake and any half decent Garda would hopefully see it as such.

Mylow

I came to check point outside Kilmainham jail 6 or 7 years ago. 2 Guards on checkpoint, one talking to driver, the other standing on side of road. I stopped, looked over and she waved me on. The other guard then decided he should stop me. I told him his colleague had waved me on, he went into rant while other Guard walked off. It was a case of neither knew what each other was doing.

I was living in UK at the time, had just came from ferry. I was thinking if this was way visitors got treated when they arrived on holiday here they would certainly be telling people not to visit.

There is always a few that muck it up for the majority.

Wex.

Guys I know there is prob a thread on here somewhere and this is more than likely in the wrong place but I'm newish and still trying to find my way around!

Driving home from Dublin earlier and was doing about 125kmph in what I thought was a 120kmph zone. I noticed 2 guards with a camera on a tripod stand on the left hand side of the road. I soon realised it was a 100kmph zone.

A friend has told me I could escape a fine as usually the clock in a car shows 10kmph over so that would make my speed 115 and I could be within their over the limit allowance which they usually set up to 15kmph?

Would appreciate your thoughts on this! And is there any way of knowing if I was actually caught or do I just wait on the post which could be weeks?

Thanks!

ToxicPaddy

djimi wrote: »

I agree with what you say about how to approach the checkpoint, but I dont think that they will (or at least dont deserve to) have the book thrown at them tbh. Leaner driver who by the sounds of it was one of the minority who actually obey the rules, probably nervous at first checkpoint, okay did something stupid but stopped when asked to (didnt just keep driving oblivious to what is going on). It sounds like an honest mistake and any half decent Garda would hopefully see it as such.

I'm not suggesting that they do throw the book at her, just simply saying that it could happen.. depends on the mood of the Garda in question at the time..

djimi

Wex. wrote: »

Guys I know there is prob a thread on here somewhere and this is more than likely in the wrong place but I'm newish and still trying to find my way around!

Driving home from Dublin earlier and was doing about 125kmph in what I thought was a 120kmph zone. I noticed 2 guards with a camera on a tripod stand on the left hand side of the road. I soon realised it was a 100kmph zone.

A friend has told me I could escape a fine as usually the clock in a car shows 10kmph over so that would make my speed 115 and I could be within their over the limit allowance which they usually set up to 15kmph?

Would appreciate your thoughts on this! And is there any way of knowing if I was actually caught or do I just wait on the post which could be weeks?

Thanks!

I think (and I could be wrong about this) that the tripods are not capable of recording the speed, only showing it, so they would have to stop you to issue a ticket. I could be very wrong about that however.

Wex.

Thanks Djimi. I was told that if they were in a car then they'd have to pull me over but that a fine can be issued when its a tripod. Can anyone verify this? Thanks

Stark

I've seen them with tripods mounted on overbridges with a camera flashing motorists passing on the motorway below so presumably they can fine you without pulling you. If you didn't see a camera flash, you're probably fine though.

Wex.

Thanks. Being honest I only saw them at last min so a camera could very well have flashed!

smash

I'm guessing that this will go nowhere because it was a mistake, she did stop when requested, and everything was in order!

RandomAccess

omega man wrote: »

Had the opposite of this before. Garda speed check where a garda clearly indicated to my wife to pull over. Another Garda pulled the car behind in also and after 5 minutes dealing with the car behind the Garda came to us and in a very smart tone asked "are you looking for directions or something?". I really wanted to rant at him but thought better and my wife was just happy she hadnt been done. All the lad had to do was say he got the wrong car first. Our car and the other one pulled were almost identical cars so it was an honest mistake but no he had to be a total .......:mad:

I would have lit him out of it.
Had a similar incident before, not with a guard but I wouldn't let that put me off. No time for ignorant ****.

If i ever come up to any Garda on the road waving on people or stopping and i don't have a clue what they want i stop untill he either come's up to me or shouts to move on :P

Mint Sauce

Wex. wrote: »

Guys I know there is prob a thread on here somewhere and this is more than likely in the wrong place but I'm newish and still trying to find my way around!

Driving home from Dublin earlier and was doing about 125kmph in what I thought was a 120kmph zone. I noticed 2 guards with a camera on a tripod stand on the left hand side of the road. I soon realised it was a 100kmph zone.

A friend has told me I could escape a fine as usually the clock in a car shows 10kmph over so that would make my speed 115 and I could be within their over the limit allowance which they usually set up to 15kmph?

Would appreciate your thoughts on this! And is there any way of knowing if I was actually caught or do I just wait on the post which could be weeks?

Thanks!

your in car speedo can sometimes only display a few kph/mph over, would not have thought as much as ten

in relation to tripod/fixed cameras verus hand held cameras, my understanding was tripod/fixed cameras will issue a fine in the post, hand held ones my understanding is you need to be pulled over for the fine to be issued

all you can do is wait out the couple of weeks am afraid, 10 to 14 days i think it is

Wex.

Thanks irish-stew!

Pkiernan

Regarding the original post, a summons means a mandatory court appearance.

If the passenger shows up as a witness, then assuming there are no other charges, the driver should explain her confusion, and simply tell the truth.

The charge of failing to stop will be thrown out by the judge.

tommy21

Wex. wrote: »

over the limit allowance which they usually set up to 15kmph?

Forgive my ignorance but surely this can't be correct - a speed limit is a speed limit no?

Stark

They usually allow a little extra to account for potential inaccuracies with the equipment and leaving people off who stray a little over the limit in favour of pulling the people who are speeding by a decent margin. I don't think they give as much as 15km/hr leeway though.

corktina

10% plus 4 km/h i was told...

Rovi

It MAY total up to 15km/h or so as read on your speedometer, when you allow for the built in deliberate over-reading of the vast majority of speedometers and the speed detection equipment operators' allowing another bit for equipment variations and/or a bit of leeway on readings just above the nominal limit.

Your mileage may vary

davidoco

Rovi wrote: »

I can see how a new driver or someone who had never previously encountered such a situation could roll through a checkpoint thinking they were being waved on, while the Garda's intentions were otherwise.

They should really have this in the driving test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBzIUkv5zT0&feature=related
It is a instructional video for a emergency stop.

conf101

Thanks for all the feedback. She did approach the checkpoint slowly, just didn't actually stop because she thought she was being waved through. She was followed because she didn't stop, nothing to do with speeding or anything like that. The only problem the guard had was with her not stopping, L plates, fully licensed driver was all ok.

It was a genuine mistake by a learner which won't be made again. She will obviously always come to a stop at checkpoints from now on and she's not disputing the fact that she drove through a checkpoint, just wondering what the penalty will be. I'd be fairly sure that if it went to court it would be thrown out, I'm just not sure it goes straight to court.