Iranian president escapes assasination attempt

tommy21

http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/News/Article.aspx?id=183613

Pity the guy missed. He was caught - must be hell on earth for the poor guy today.

I think this is quite unique in that it finally counters all the PR the Iranian media is so fond of spouting and/or simply no news out of the country at all thanks to media blackouts. Clearly at least one Iranian is unhappy with the dictatorship of Ahmadinejad.

wes

tommy21 wrote: »

I think this is quite unique in that it finally counters all the PR the Iranian media is so fond of spouting and/or simply no news out of the country at all thanks to media blackouts. Clearly at least one Iranian is unhappy with the dictatorship of Ahmadinejad.

There is a guy called the Supreme Leader in Iran, who has more power than the President. The Iranian President, doesn't have any where near the same power as the US President for example. So seeing, as there is a guy above Ahmadinejad, I think if fair to say he is no dictator. I wouldn't even say that the Supreme Leader is dictator either, but I wouldn't call Iran a proper democracy either btw. There political system is a bit more complex than that.

As for the Assansination attempt, well the Iranian's are denying it:
Iran denies attack on Ahmadinejad

So, I think it best to wait for more information on this, but if an attack did take place, my guess would be the Balochi group Jundallah, who the Iranian's claim are funded by the US, and Pakistan (in the case of Pakistan, it make no sense, as Pakistan has there own issue with Balochi seperatists, and it seems unlikely they would fund them).

tommy21

wes wrote: »

There is a guy called the Supreme Leader in Iran, who has more power than the President. The Iranian President, doesn't have any where near the same power as the US President for example. So seeing, as there is a guy above Ahmadinejad, I think if fair to say he is no dictator. I wouldn't even say that the Supreme Leader is dictator either, but I wouldn't call Iran a proper democracy either btw. There political system is a bit more complex than that.

As for the Assansination attempt, well the Iranian's are denying it:
Iran denies attack on Ahmadinejad

So, I think it best to wait for more information on this, but if an attack did take place, my guess would be the Balochi group Jundallah, who the Iranian's claim are funded by the US, and Pakistan (in the case of Pakistan, it make no sense, as Pakistan has there own issue with Balochi seperatists, and it seems unlikely they would fund them).

Yes I am well aware of the position of the supreme leader. He seems to be revered across the board, and I have noticed that the president rarely if ever goes against what he says. You say it is not a dictatorship, but surely if people are forced to live in fear it is?

I wondered when they would begin the denial :P

Your right re more information - perhaps your right on your guess.

wes

tommy21 wrote: »

Yes I am well aware of the position of the supreme leader. He seems to be revered across the board, and I have noticed that the president rarely if ever goes against what he says. You say it is not a dictatorship, but surely if people are forced to live in fear it is?

Well, no people being forced in live in fear, does not make Iran a dictatorship. The regime is more complicated than that. The Supreme Leader can over rule the President or the Parliment, but the Supreme Leader can be removed by the council of experts (of the Guardian council, I can never remember which).

It not being a dictatorship, doesn't change the fact that the regime treats there own people like crap, and engaged in multiple Human Rights abuses. There are plenty of other forms of governance beyond dictatorships, that treat there people like crap.

tommy21 wrote: »

I wondered when they would begin the denial :P

Your right re more information - perhaps your right on your guess.

Well, the other possibility is the Green movement, but I don't think there that dumb, as it would give the regime ane excuse to crack down, even harder on them.

That assuming that there was an attack.

BlaasForRafa

wes wrote: »

There is a guy called the Supreme Leader in Iran, who has more power than the President. The Iranian President, doesn't have any where near the same power as the US President for example. So seeing, as there is a guy above Ahmadinejad, I think if fair to say he is no dictator. I wouldn't even say that the Supreme Leader is dictator either, but I wouldn't call Iran a proper democracy either btw. There political system is a bit more complex than that.

Of course Iran is a dictatorship, the elections there are merely for show. That much was obvious last year when there was massive corruption of the voting system and of the results, Mousavi supporters were intimidated during the campaign and after the result was announced his supporters were attacked and a number killed by state forces after they peacefully protested the results.

Iran is a theocracy and its supreme leaders have been Shi'ite Ayatollahs but in the way it governs, the way it uses the cult of personality and its iron control of police and armed forces its more akin to a Stalinist dictatorship.

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Of course Iran is a dictatorship, the elections there are merely for show. That much was obvious last year when there was massive corruption of the voting system and of the results, Mousavi supporters were intimidated during the campaign and after the result was announced his supporters were attacked and a number killed by state forces after they peacefully protested the results.

No, it isn't a dictatorship actually, the system is more complex than that actually. As for the election, sadly it was never proven that they were fixed. There were certainly claims, but none were proven. It wouldn't surprise me if they were fixed, but I have no proof to say that they were fixed for certain.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Iran is a theocracy and its supreme leaders have been Shi'ite Ayatollahs but in the way it governs, the way it uses the cult of personality and its iron control of police and armed forces its more akin to a Stalinist dictatorship.

Yes, it is a theocratic state, but again it is not a dictatorship. The Supreme Leader can be removed, and isn't the sole power in the Regime. It would be more accurate to called it a one party theocracy.

Either way, it doesn't change the Iranian regimes various Human Rights abuses, but imho calling it a dictatorship is lazy.

tommy21

wes wrote: »

No, it isn't a dictatorship actually, the system is more complex than that actually. As for the election, sadly it was never proven that they were fixed. There were certainly claims, but none were proven. It wouldn't surprise me if they were fixed, but I have no proof to say that they were fixed for certain.



Yes, it is a theocratic state, but again it is not a dictatorship. The Supreme Leader can be removed, and isn't the sole power in the Regime. It would be more accurate to called it a one party theocracy.

Either way, it doesn't change the Iranian regimes various Human Rights abuses, but imho calling it a dictatorship is lazy.

A dictatorship in the true sense (i.e. one person with absolute power) it may not be, but the power certainly rests in the hands of few. The population are lucky enough to enjoy all the benefits of dictatorship, such as media crackdowns and human rights abuses.

wes

tommy21 wrote: »

A dictatorship in the true sense (i.e. one person with absolute power) it may not be, but the power certainly rests in the hands of few. The population are lucky enough to enjoy all the benefits of dictatorship, such as media crackdowns and human rights abuses.

Yes, all those things happen and I have already mentioned, but I still think it lazy to call it a dictatorship.

tommy21

wes wrote: »

Yes, all those things happen and I have already mentioned, but I still think it lazy to call it a dictatorship.

Look Wes I started this thread to generate a discussion on the topic, not to argue with you over semantics. You have your opinion and are entitled to it. Enough!

old_aussie

Iranians will have to learn to throw

wes

tommy21 wrote: »

Look Wes I started this thread to generate a discussion on the topic, not to argue with you over semantics. You have your opinion and are entitled to it. Enough!

Fair enough, if you want to make inaccurate statements, more power to you.

tommy21

wes wrote: »

Fair enough, if you want to make inaccurate statements, more power to you.

:rolleyes:

BlaasForRafa

No, it isn't a dictatorship actually, the system is more complex than that actually. As for the election, sadly it was never proven that they were fixed. There were certainly claims, but none were proven. It wouldn't surprise me if they were fixed, but I have no proof to say that they were fixed for certain.

Its hard to prove something when there are no outside observers and where internal dissidents can be shot or locked up at will

Yes, it is a theocratic state, but again it is not a dictatorship. The Supreme Leader can be removed, and isn't the sole power in the Regime. It would be more accurate to called it a one party theocracy.

Either way, it doesn't change the Iranian regimes various Human Rights abuses, but imho calling it a dictatorship is lazy.

In theory he can be removed. That is just a sham however. He has been there since 1989 and there and will not be removed. He controls the army and the religious leaders. He controls the paramilitary revolutionary guards and basij who are fiercely loyal to him, he controls the police, he appoints the guardian council and he appoints the judiciary. He controls the state media, he has all the levers of power under his personal control.

Khamenei will not be removed, he will be in that position till he dies, you know that, I know that, the dogs in the street in tehran know that.

wes

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Its hard to prove something when there are no outside observers and where internal dissidents can be shot or locked up at will

Yes, but it does mean that we can state definitively that the elections were fixed, as we simply don't have that informaiton.

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

In theory he can be removed. That is just a sham however. He has been there since 1989 and there and will not be removed. He controls the army and the religious leaders. He controls the paramilitary revolutionary guards and basij who are fiercely loyal to him, he controls the police, he appoints the guardian council and he appoints the judiciary. He controls the state media, he has all the levers of power under his personal control.

Khamenei will not be removed, he will be in that position till he dies, you know that, I know that, the dogs in the street in tehran know that.

Yes, its unlikely that he will be removed, but he is not the sole power in the regime.

tommy21

wes wrote: »

Yes, but it does mean that we can state definitively that the elections were fixed, as we simply don't have that informaiton.



Yes, its unlikely that he will be removed, but he is not the sole power in the regime.

It might surprise you, but often in politics there is very little that can be proven definitively. I think the fact that those elections were fixed has been proven beyond idle speculation.


He may not be the sole power, but in his format as figure head he may as well be.

meditraitor

tommy21 wrote: »

Look Wes I started this thread to generate a discussion on the topic, not to argue with you over semantics. You have your opinion and are entitled to it. Enough!

You started the thread with the sole intention of generating anti Iranian sentiment and when you were called on inconsistancies in your see through propoganda you call foul.

LOL

tommy21

meditraitor wrote: »

You started the thread with the sole intention of generating anti Iranian sentiment and when you were called on inconsistancies in your see through propoganda you call foul.

LOL

Not sure what you're getting at here, my aim was to generate discussion. My view is certainly anti-Iranian in terms of the way the country is ruled. I called "foul" as it just seems like Wes was engaging in one-upmanship and I didn't want thread taken over by arguing over the true meaning of dictatorship. I don't claim to be the most informed person on Iran, just started the thread to highlight my delight that an evil leader was almost assassinated and my dismay that the "perp" was caught. As Wes correctly highlighted there may be more to the whole story as it is early days, but just my opinion. Anyway if you don't have anything to say on the actual thread topic and/or my opinion, easiest thing for you to do is to ignore it!

wes

tommy21 wrote: »

It might surprise you, but often in politics there is very little that can be proven definitively. I think the fact that those elections were fixed has been proven beyond idle speculation.

Except that there has been very little actual proof of tampering going on. The problem is that we actually have real proof, where we can for definite say the election were fixed.

As I said earlier, it would not surprise if that was the case, but I can't prove that it happened.

tommy21 wrote: »

He may not be the sole power, but in his format as figure head he may as well be.

Yes, but my point is just that things are more complicated and I think I will leave it at that.

meditraitor

tommy21 wrote: »

I don't claim to be the most informed person on Iran, just started the thread to highlight my delight that an evil leader was almost assassinated and my dismay that the "perp" was caught.

tommy21 wrote:

Look Wes I started this thread to generate a discussion on the topic

So you didn't start the thread to initiate discussion!

I think I will leave it here as well...... Hopefully someone will bite and you can wallow in your hatred together.

tommy21

meditraitor wrote: »

So you didn't start the thread to initiate discussion!

I think I will leave it here as well...... Hopefully someone will bite and you can wallow in your hatred together.

Pathetic lol. Not like you made any actual points. Anyway off with you.

Scofflaw

Given tommy21's stated intent in starting this thread:

just started the thread to highlight my delight that an evil leader was almost assassinated and my dismay that the "perp" was caught

and given that's a clear breach of the charter in respect to the glorification/celebration of violence, I don't see that I have any option but to close the thread and ban the poster for breach of charter.

moderately,
Scofflaw