Don't bother re-opening Sarsfield Street to vehicular traffic?

ninty9er

It appears that there hasn't been a mass disimprovement in traffic due to the closure of Sarsfield Street. I know the time of the year has made a difference too, but is it worth leaving it closed to through traffic altogether?

Just a thought. Would be nice to have another pedestrian street.

hightower1

ninty9er wrote: »

It appears that there hasn't been a mass disimprovement in traffic due to the closure of Sarsfield Street. I know the time of the year has made a difference too, but is it worth leaving it closed to through traffic altogether?

Just a thought. Would be nice to have another pedestrian street.

Absolutely sterling idea! It certainly would help with the crazy pedestrian / driver games of chicken on Saturdays AND bring much needed breath of fresh air back to whats essentially the very heart of the city center.

bullets

If I had my way (which I dont) the entire innermost parts of the centre of Limerick city would be
pedestrian only with the exception of delivery/business vehicles and public transport.
Ideally the blocks from O'Connell Ave to about where the Lock Bar would be ideal in my version of Limerick.

Dont see whats so bad with forcing traffic round a few blocks of the city instead of the need to drive through the inner streets.

If it takes a driver 5-10 mins out of their day to go around instead of through I dont see what harm that
would cause. a minor inconveniance vs much more relaxed stroll about the place once you park up.
~B

DarkJager

Just wait till the schools come back and see if you still think that's a good idea! And the council are wondering why nobody shops in the city centre anymore? Pedestrianise the whole place lads, maybe ye could start charging tourists for a walk around a modern ghost town!

steveon

ninty9er wrote: »

It appears that there hasn't been a mass disimprovement in traffic due to the closure of Sarsfield Street. I know the time of the year has made a difference too, but is it worth leaving it closed to through traffic altogether?

Just a thought. Would be nice to have another pedestrian street.

Id love to know what roads ur driving on as Im stuck in traffic because of that stupid section of road every day...its causing chaos..quicker its finished the better..and as the street pedestrian trial showed in Ennis that has been disembarked it killed off the trade to the shops they trialled it in...and thats exactly whats going to happen here.

kilburn

so if pedestrianisation kills off trade how do you explain Henry St and Grafton St?

Amazotheamazing

kilburn wrote: »

so if pedestrianisation kills off trade how do you explain Henry St and Grafton St?

Or Shop?Quay street in Galway or Patrick's street in Cork.

Done correctly it's great for businesses.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

so if pedestrianisation kills off trade how do you explain Henry St and Grafton St?

It on it's own does not kill off trade. In Dublin and Galway it was set up to compliment shopping areas, and the retailers were given attractive rates to encourage them to keep their businesses in those areas.

But pedestrianising an area that is already dead, like Sarsfield street is a waste of time unless there were real incentives, not just the usual hot air from the city council, in place to attract retailers to the area long term.

Plus making Sarsfield street a pedestrian area would be stupid if the plans to pedestrianise O'Connell Street do come about, as then you would see serious congestion, as all traffic coming across Sarfield street and up Henry street would be forced around Arthurs quay and then into the soon to be new lay out for William street, which will be a single lane street.

It is all well and good saying having lots of pedestrianised areas is nice, but if there are no shops, then there is no point in having pedestrianised areas as people will just keep shopping in the Crescent shopping centre and also keep going to Cork and Galway for a good, in comparison, shopping experience.

As it stands right now Limerick has three pedestrianised areas, Bedford Row, Thomas Street and Cruises street. The latter is a dour failure of a street, which has the honour of being the worst performing pedestrian street in retail terms for a few years running based on income taken in per square foot of retail space, and no doubt when the figures for this year come out in Febuary 2011 it will be retaining it's unwanted title.

Attractive rates, proper delivery access, and modern units are what is needed to attract retailers to a proposed pedestrian area, without these it is just a big walking area with nothing in it. The planners in other Irish cities understood this years ago, maybe the local chumps might take the hint and copy them.

kilburn

The units in Sarsfield St are being offered rent free for 18mths, I am sure if it was a nice pedestrianised street those units would be snapped up. I am all for pedestrianisation, bus lanes and cycle lanes.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

The units in Sarsfield St are being offered rent free for 18mths, I am sure if it was a nice pedestrianised street those units would be snapped up. I am all for pedestrianisation, bus lanes and cycle lanes.

I suggest you go and check what the offer actually is. It is not 18 months rent free as in you take out a 15 year lease and only pay 13.5 years of rent.

I have no problem with pedestrianised streets and the like, just as long as it is done properly like how other cities have managed it, and not done in the amatuer manner that the Limerick city authorities have a great track record in.


Also if a street being pedestrianised was all it took for units to be snapped up, then Cruises Street would be thriving.

AnCapaillMor

Tell me if you're all for pedestrian on sarsfield around the end of november\december. Its a good idea but it will cause gridlock those months and drive more to the crescent\tipp road shop centres especially with the new tunnel.

kilburn

Kess I know exactly what the terms to those units are, My friend had the Bennetton unit, it is a lease with an escape clause. Dont be so argumentative with people, a bit more positivity please. Limerick City Council have made mistakes but have come on leaps and bounds ! Thomas St, Catherine St and Bedford Row are fantastic streets, as are their future plans.

Everybody knows the problem with Cruises St is that the units are too small, thats the developers fault NOT the City Council

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Kess I know exactly what the terms to those units are, My friend had the Bennetton unit, it is a lease with an escape clause. Dont be so argumentative with people, a bit more positivity please. Limerick City Council have made mistakes but have come on leaps and bounds ! Thomas St, Catherine St and Bedford Row are fantastic streets, as are their future plans.

Everybody knows the problem with Cruises St is that the units are too small, thats the developers fault NOT the City Council

Thomas street and Catherine street are fantastic streets? LMAO. Try telling that to the retailers on them, you will get laughed out of it.

Also try telling many of the William street and Foxes Bow retailers that the William street plans are fantastic and maybe they can tell you why there were so many objections by the retailers towards the plans.

And if you really were a friend of the owner of the Benetton store, Marjorie Cusack , then you would know that she was very outspoken about how the council were treating retailers and how the plans for the city centre along with the rates/rent were the main reasons behind her disgruntlement.

Here is a direct quote from her that she gave to a local paper this year.

“There is no longer any synergy in the city; it has become disjointed and abandoned and it is too expensive to operate there. The council are doing nothing about it."


Yep the retailers will be snapping up the units alright under the current city coucil set up.:rolleyes:

kilburn

Kess73 wrote: »

Thomas street and Catherine street are fantastic streets? LMAO. Try telling that to the retailers on them, you will get laughed out of it.

Also try telling many of the William street and Foxes Bow retailers that the William street plans are fantastic and maybe they can tell you why there were so many objections by the retailers towards the plans.

And if you really were a friend of the owner of the Benetton store, Marjorie Cusack , then you would know that she was very outspoken about how the coucil were treating retailers and how the plans for the city centre along with the rates/rent were the main reasons behind her disgruntlement.

No pleasing some people !
Have better things to do than argue with you, you are obviously anti Limerick city for some reason.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

No pleasing some people !
Have better things to do than argue with you, you are obviously anti Limerick city for some reason.

Nothing to do with pleasing people, you tried to use Marjorie Cusack as an example of a friend who fills you in on the finer details of the great leases on Sarsfield street, when in fact she has been very outspoken in public on the expensive rents/rates and the incompetence of the coucil, along with her comments about how the city centre has become very unattractive for any retailers to want to come to. Seems to me if you were a friend of hers you would have known she was one of those speaking out against the way the city is being run and planned.

Limerick has the potential for great things in terms of being turned into a thriving city centre, but it will never happen as long as there are people in charge who have no concept of how businesses work and what businesses need.

I have over twenty years experience in retail in Ireland, England, and Germany, with over half of it at regional manager level, and never have I dealt with anything like how things are "run" by the Limerick City council. Very amateur in their set up, especially when compared to their counterparts in Galway, Cork, Dublin, and Kerry. They are the sole reason why the last company I was with set up their Limerick store in the Crescent shopping centre over a city centre location.

As I said, Limerick is potentially a brilliant spot to have a thriving, bustling city centre with plenty by way of shopping, entertainment and other facilities that would rival and surpass that of other cities in Ireland, but it will never happen if it's council runs and plans it as if it were some small town.

It is nothing to do with being anti-Limerick or any other childish tag like that, it is more to do with seeing a place that could be brilliant become a place that simply has it's council go on about how it is already a match for major European cities when anyone with eyes can see that it is nowhere close yet.

zuroph

my main problem with pedestrianising there would be that one side of the street it taken up with the window for debenhams. there is next to no shop frontage along the street.

kilburn

Kess, maybe you should consult people before you go putting their name on boards. I also have vast business experience in Limerick being an entrepenuer in this city and know exactly what I am talking about regarding Thomas St pedestrianisation so dont be so condescending.

Secondly, you need to stop attacking peoples ideas and suggestions this is not the first time you have jumped on someones comments and insulted them. If you have all the business experience that you claim to have then you surely know that manners and respect for others costs nothing !

Please dont respond to any more of my comments. I am not here to engage you in any petty arguements, that you wish to pick.

sceptre

zuroph wrote: »

my main problem with pedestrianising there would be that one side of the street it taken up with the window for debenhams. there is next to no shop frontage along the street.

Yeah, that's my biggest single doubt about the idea. If it had shop frontage on both sides I'd be all for it.

That's a doubt by the way, not an opinion of "no".

Mrmoe

sceptre wrote: »

Yeah, that's my biggest single doubt about the idea. If it had shop frontage on both sides I'd be all for it.

That's a doubt by the way, not an opinion of "no".

I think there is a way you can overcome that problem. I am not too sure if it is Grand Parade in Cork where they have these coffee kiosks. You could possibly do something similar here with one half of the street filled with cafe furniture with a small kiosk at one end. I would be aiming for a Champs Elysee type setting. Problems with this would naturally involve poor weather and space issues but it would be a way of encouraging people to stay in the city centre. Probably looks better in my head though than in reality.

kilburn

Ya those stand alone coffee kiosks in Cork are lovely

Berty

They also have something similar on the North Wall Quay in Dublin by the IFSC.

That is only if retail space is at a premium and in Limerick it is abundant.

steveon

kilburn wrote: »

Kess I know exactly what the terms to those units are, My friend had the Bennetton unit, it is a lease with an escape clause. Dont be so argumentative with people, a bit more positivity please. Limerick City Council have made mistakes but have come on leaps and bounds ! Thomas St, Catherine St and Bedford Row are fantastic streets, as are their future plans.

Everybody knows the problem with Cruises St is that the units are too small, thats the developers fault NOT the City Council

U must be jokin me..there is loads of apparments blocks above all these shops which are always forgotten about, where do the residents park now? and have you ever tried to get there when ur trying to provide a service...theres no where to park and then when there is cars that shouldnt be in loading bays are...try parking 5 streets away and get there with a ladder...its impossible as by the time u get back u get a parking ticket...

There is no need for bus lanes....get the traffic moving and the buses will be on time its as simple as that..

As why should this be the case..
I get a taxi and..the driver can use a bus lane..
I drive my own car and bring 4 people to work and I have to sit in traffic, logic???? there is none...

Switch all the bus lanes to lanes for traffic everything moves...now with the tunnel which is another farce, the town should be quieter is it no....and if we are to beleive that there will be 27,000 cars taking off ours streets then once again another reason therers no need for a bus lane...

Berty

steveon wrote: »

...now with the tunnel which is another farce, the town should be quieter is it no....and if we are to beleive that there will be 27,000 cars taking off ours streets then once again another reason therers no need for a bus lane...

Give it time. People will come around to the idea of the Tunnel and the streets will be quieter.

thesimpsons

its a pity we don't permit cars with 3 or more people in them to use bus lanes like they do in other countries. So many of the cars heading into town every morning on Dock Road, Condel Road, Ennis Road are single occupier - let them sit in the traffic and allow carpoolers to move on. If someone takes a carload of 4 kids to school every day by car pooling, saves on amount of cars on the road, saves petrol and emissions, wear and tear on cars, etc. It would encourage car pooling. In the 80s car pooling to Shannon, Alcan, etc was popular.

Kess73

kilburn wrote: »

Kess, maybe you should consult people before you go putting their name on boards. I also have vast business experience in Limerick being an entrepenuer in this city and know exactly what I am talking about regarding Thomas St pedestrianisation so dont be so condescending.

Secondly, you need to stop attacking peoples ideas and suggestions this is not the first time you have jumped on someones comments and insulted them. If you have all the business experience that you claim to have then you surely know that manners and respect for others costs nothing !

Please dont respond to any more of my comments. I am not here to engage you in any petty arguements, that you wish to pick.

Maybe you should think before making claims of being friends to people. You claimed to be friends with the owner of Benetton and that you had inside knowledge of the leases through that friendship. I simply replied with the actual name of the owner and direct quotes from her regarding why she could not continue to do business on the street you the entrepreneur claim would have businesses flocking to get get units on if it were pedestrianised.

Here is an article with direct quotes from the actual person who owned Benetton on Sarsfield street about why, in her opinion, the city centre is not retailer friendly and dying. Now what she has to say on the matter I would listen to, as when a person with genuine business savvy speaks out like she did, it generally means there is a real problem that needs to be addressed.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php?id=1460:benetton-latest-retail-victim-in-city&option=com_content&catid=37:local-news&Itemid=60

You won't engage in any debate because anything you claim can be countered with actual facts that are in the public domain. If you don't want to be replied to, I suggest you put me on ignore.


You now say you know all about Thomas Street pedestrianisation, yet your original arguement was about how Sarsfield street should be pedestrianised. Do try to keep up with your own topics. Also as an entrepreneur of Limerick, you must be well aware of the combined objections that were put forward by a large number of retailers and property owners regarding Thomas Street, and that the same has been done by many of the retailers and property owners on William street. Or maybe you will claim that this never happened despite it getting media coverage and retailers giving more direct quotes to the press with regards to their dissatisfaction over the proposed plans.

kilburn

I was speaking about 2 different topics regarding Sarsfirld St and Thomas St and i dont claim anything. Yes I know the person involved and she has had 2 shops on Sarsfield St. Please stop insulting me !

munstergirl

I think landlords need to realise this is limerick in a recession and bring down rents.

Fill the empty shops on cruises st, bedford row 1st. Think bedford row is bit of disaster really, no major differences than before. (besides church)

If sarsfield street was full of shops i would understand, but it has 1 bits + pieces jewellery shop, 1 hairdresser, 1 bank, 1 pub, and side enterance to department store.

Great way to pass a rainy afternoon in limerick, stroll along sarsfield st. Thanks but no thanks.

Builderfromhell

Kess73,
Don't know why you are expending so much time and energy attacking Kilburn on a public forum.
Others probably click on this topic to read about Sarsfield street, not to read peoples opinions of each other.

Amazotheamazing

A better question would be why so many main roads were routed through our city centre in the first place?

A town centre should be place for shops, cafes, pubs, theatres, restaurants, galleries, etc, not the main hub of the area's road network. The tunnel is only one step in the right direction, there should be a northern bypass too.

Kess73

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Kess73,
Don't know why you are expending so much time and energy attacking Kilburn on a public forum.
Others probably click on this topic to read about Sarsfield street, not to read peoples opinions of each other.

Don't worry I shan't waste anymore time on Kilburn as all he/she does is make stuff up anyway.

kilburn

Thats very rude again, Kess. I did all the signage work for marjorie so I do know her. I have made nothing up and never once insulted you on this forum, like you have me. Even other posters have noticed your attacks. I would appreciate it if the mods would take you up on your unwarranted attacks on people.

billy the squid

Can we stick to the topic at hand please and leave the sniping at each other off the forum. thanks.

Procasinator

kilburn wrote: »

Thats very rude again, Kess. I did all the signage work for marjorie so I do know her. I have made nothing up and never once insulted you on this forum, like you have me. Even other posters have noticed your attacks. I would appreciate it if the mods would take you up on your unwarranted attacks on people.

If you have a problem with Kess, report the post that caused offense. A mod will decide if has been abusive.

There's no need to repetitively point out how you feel attacked, it adds nothing to the conversation.

I personally think Sarsfield street isn't the best place for a pedestrianised street for the reason point out by zuroph: Very little shop frontage.

If you don't need both sides of the road for shopping, a footpath will suffice.

Having all the pedestrian areas disjointed is less than ideal. People want a contiguous area of popular shops and eateries. That is why the Crescent is so popular.

kilburn

I agree there is very little shop frontage on the street maybe the current plans with the widened footpaths and tree planting is enough.

Hopefully more streets will be fully pedestrianised like they have planned.

hightower1

Sure bedford row seems to be doing fine with just one side being actuall retail, the other side is a bar, a barbers and a cafe? Its not like a go and browse for a haircut / beer or coffee on a sat afternoon? I do however (and the missus) browse and buy in the clothes stores on the one retail side on a regular basis.

I am sure if the street was pedestrianised debenahms wouldnt be long opening up that side of their display to take full advantage of it i.e redesign of the entrence and view of the store floor / installation of an in house cafe.

Berty

Heck why not just pedestrianise in front of Pennys. Why has it not been done in the past 18 years or so since traffic was removed from it?

I was in Cork again today mind and I was thinking about this thread(great life I lead) and Patrick St has ZERO parking. The only vehicles allowed stop are "loading", Taxi's and bus's. People are afraid to drive on the street. I have made the mistake of driving on it myself but will never again. It is very anti driver.

Cork has a Tunnel, Limerick has a tunnel. This should be Limerick's aim to get it just like this and the Cafe which is basically on the footpath down at the corner of Washington St and Grand Parade is Gloria Jeans and it is done quite well with a wooden deck out the front for the "al fresco" feel to it.

If you come into the city looking to head through for Tipperary/Ballysimon then you could have used the Tunnel or come in the Condell, out the dock road, onto the bypass and away you go.

If you actually want to get to Thomas Street car park(lets say) then boo hoo go around.(subject to closing sarsfield). Pedestrianse most of the hub of the city and give it back to the shoppers.

Olaf

hightower1 wrote: »

I am sure if the street was pedestrianised debenahms wouldnt be long opening up that side of their display to take full advantage of it i.e redesign of the entrence and view of the store floor / installation of an in house cafe.

That's a good call actually. Would be a really good store to have in a pedestrianized area as well you'd think, considering the name.

Never understood that massive closed off street area outside pennys either. Really strange looking.

sleepyman

Anyone know if this is finished yet? haven't been home in a while?
Surely it would take longer than two months?

Kess73

Work is still ongoing.

h3000

I think the "new" finish date is the middle of September.

Cookiemunster

The road is suppose to be open next Monday (23rd) but footpath works ongoing till Oct.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Siege-of-Limerick39s-Sarsfield-Street.6466909.jp

Tango Alpha 51

Another problem with closing off these streets is access for ourselves, fire service & gardai. They have these bollards either side which only Limerick Corporation have access too, which means if we get a call to say Bedford Row for a collapse, then we usually have to leave the ambulance on Henry Street blocking traffic (just using these streets as an example). I'm all for have more pedistrianised zones as I think it will improve the image of the city etc but someone should really be thinking about access for the ES.

sceptre

Mrmoe wrote: »

I think there is a way you can overcome that problem. I am not too sure if it is Grand Parade in Cork where they have these coffee kiosks. You could possibly do something similar here with one half of the street filled with cafe furniture with a small kiosk at one end. I would be aiming for a Champs Elysee type setting. Problems with this would naturally involve poor weather and space issues but it would be a way of encouraging people to stay in the city centre. Probably looks better in my head though than in reality.

Yeah, good point - and yes, it's Grand Parade.

And as hightower1 said, if it was pedestrianised, odds are good that Debenhams (for example) would be pretty fast to redesign that side of their premises to use it well.

Berty wrote: »

Heck why not just pedestrianise in front of Pennys. Why has it not been done in the past 18 years or so since traffic was removed from it?

There was a time post traffic-removal when buses and taxis used it to cross over. Even that's long gone as a use so it should really have the path widened accordingly - at the moment it's in a silly half way stage between being pedestrianised and traffic capable (without a purpose given the direction of the traffic). I suspect that there's a notion of maybe, you know, wanting to hold on to it just in case they move all the traffic directions around again. Widen the path and have done with it.

lasno

Did not open on the 23rd.

jacksyhoulahan

Originally the street was supposed to be open for traffic in two or three weeks of it closing but obviously there is major restructuring being done below ground level. The street has massive old brick culverts which is always going to be tricky and it is near the river which doesn't help.
The whole project for completion of Sarsfield, William and Upper William Street is supposed to take 18 months and already they are about two months behind at least on the first section.
Add to that that the crowd from Glanmire that are doing it came in way cheaper than all other bidders, I don't think its looking good for them unless they are relying on claiming a lot of extras, which on the new form of contract are hard to come by I understand.

kilburn

Think upper William Street has started now as well, so they are moving well into it.

munstergirl

Walked down sarsfield st this am, footpath looks nearly done, very wide both sides, and just looks like one lane for traffic.

Kess73

munstergirl wrote: »

Walked down sarsfield st this am, footpath looks nearly done, very wide both sides, and just looks like one lane for traffic.

One lane for traffic was the plan for there, and turning William street into a single traffic lane is part of that plan as well. At least that is what was shown by the local authorities/city council anyway.

sleepyman

Any chance someone could take a photo of it?Haven't been back home in a while.

thesimpsons

sur William Street is one lane already - between the bloody taxis on one side and the illegal parking which no one does anything about on the other side, and the double parking further up william street, will we even notice any difference!!!!

Kess73

thesimpsons wrote: »

sur William Street is one lane already - between the bloody taxis on one side and the illegal parking which no one does anything about on the other side, and the double parking further up william street, will we even notice any difference!!!!

We will because where there is physically two lanes now, there will only be one driving lane once the work is done.