"Knowledge Economy" Working Much?

orcanius.

Tech companies are letting people go. Graduates and PhDs are emigrating. Start-ups take their start-up money, pay lip service and die.

Sooner or later, we'll have to decide between keeping the "knowledge economy" dream alive and maintaining the health service/social welfare system.

Adam

ok.

alwaysadub

orcanius. wrote: »

Tech companies are letting people go. Graduates and PhDs are emigrating. Start-ups take their start-up money, pay lip service and die.

Sooner or later, we'll have to decide between keeping the "knowledge economy" dream alive and maintaining the health service/social welfare system.

That something to do with getting a STD?

starbelgrade

orcanius. wrote: »

Sooner or later, we'll have to decide between keeping the "knowledge economy" dream alive and maintaining the health service/social welfare system.

So, we need to decide on whether it's worthwhile to keep financing business start-ups etc as opposed to funding the health service & social welfare system?

Great idea - just one question.. how exact;y do you think the health servoce & social welfare systems are actually funded?

Saila

orcanius. for president. taoiseach

orcanius.

starbelgrade wrote: »

So, we need to decide on whether it's worthwhile to keep financing business start-ups etc as opposed to funding the health service & social welfare system?

Great idea - just one question.. how exact;y do you think the health servoce & social welfare systems are actually funded?

Don't think there are many successful start-ups paid for with Irish State coffers.

starbelgrade

orcanius. wrote: »

Don't think there are many successful start-ups paid for with Irish State coffers.

Of course there are. Not all the money comes from that source, but it's a help in many, many cases.

My name is URL

How can a knowledge economy work when the government are paying for the education of people intent on leaving after they graduate?

orcanius.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Of course there are. Not all the money comes from that source, but it's a help in many, many cases.

Could you please name one? You do realise how much it costs to maintain county/city enterprise boards, Enterprise Ireland, Science Foundation Ireland, chambers of commerce, IDA, Forfas, university spin-out centres, etc.? We're €20bn in the hole this year. We need to make ourselves attractive to private investors. We are, after all, capitalists; not socialists. The State has no business in trying to play the role of Frankenstein by jump-starting bad ideas and bad people.

Did Glen Dimplex, Smurfit or Ryanair ever get a grant to buy over-priced equipment and pay their salaries and expenses for the year?

Saila

orcanius. wrote: »

Could you please name one? You do realise how much it costs to maintain county/city enterprise boards, Enterprise Ireland, Science Foundation Ireland, chambers of commerce, IDA, Forfas, university spin-out centres, etc.? We're €20bn in the hole this year. We need to make ourselves attractive to private investors. We are, after all, capitalists; not socialists. The State has no business in trying to play the role of Frankenstein by jump-starting bad ideas and bad people.

Did Glen Dimplex, Smurfit or Ryanair ever get a grant to buy over-priced equipment and pay their salaries and expenses for the year?

Mr O Leary can Ive a ferdee fligh

Doc

Are you suggesting we all go back to farming OP because its not like we have a lot else?

orcanius.

Doc wrote: »

Are you suggesting we all go back to farming OP because its not like we have a lot else?

Agriculture, tourism and food/drink are the basis of the economy. The multinationals are only here for tax reasons and may not be around in 10 or 20 years' time when the technology has moved on or evolved. Lots of countries are copying Ireland's model and hence the half empty IDA parks all over the country.

AskMyChocolate

orcanius. wrote: »

Could you please name one? You do realise how much it costs to maintain county/city enterprise boards, Enterprise Ireland, Science Foundation Ireland, chambers of commerce, IDA, Forfas, university spin-out centres, etc.? We're €20bn in the hole this year. We need to make ourselves attractive to private investors. We are, after all, capitalists; not socialists. The State has no business in trying to play the role of Frankenstein by jump-starting bad ideas and bad people.

Did Glen Dimplex, Smurfit or Ryanair ever get a grant to buy over-priced equipment and pay their salaries and expenses for the year?

True unfortunately, but watch and see how many valueless politicians will show up in 2016 at James Connolly's grave.

orcanius.

AskMyChocolate wrote: »

True unfortunately, but watch and see how many valueless politicians will show up in 2016 at James Connolly's grave.

I see. You want to live in a socialist state? Fair play to ye.

starbelgrade

orcanius. wrote: »

Could you please name one?

Here's a handful off the top of my head;

Tanco Autowrap
Dairymaster
Mc Hale
Abbey Farm Machinery
Sweeny Oil
Norkom

There are literally hundreds of more companies like this, that without IDA and Enterpris e funding, would never have reached the levels of success, sales, exports & employment that they have reached today.

Government funding of the private sector is essential to get new businesses started. Not all of it may be well spent, not all of it may be even necessary, but that doesn't mean that it should be cut entireley, because when it does work, it is worth a hell of a lot more to the economy & to employment levels compared to the initial help with investment in start up costs, mentoring & training.

Einhard

orcanius. wrote: »

Agriculture, tourism and food/drink are the basis of the economy. The multinationals are only here for tax reasons and may not be around in 10 or 20 years' time when the technology has moved on or evolved. Lots of countries are copying Ireland's model and hence the half empty IDA parks all over the country.

All the more reason to promote and develop indigenous replacements for them surely?

orcanius.

starbelgrade wrote: »

Tanco Autowrap
Dairymaster
Mc Hale
Abbey Farm Machinery
Sweeny Oil
Norkom

A good selection of fine Irish companies. Too bad their economic contribution is totally nullified by the amount of state employees with salaries, pensions and expenses "required" to keep the knowledge economy dream alive.

Companies like Iona come along in spite of, rather than because of bureaucrats.

orcanius.

Einhard wrote: »

All the more reason to promote and develop indigenous replacements for them surely?

The low-tax strategy of attracting multinationals is only a booster rocket. We still need to get the shuttle into a stable orbit. We can't do this if all young people want is to become guards/nurses/teachers and those who study science/engineering/finance/business spend their time on careerjet.co.uk

Firefox11

It's an absolute crime the way agriculture and food industry has been left to rot in this country. The govt view is very narrow minded imho.

Saila

Firefox11 wrote: »

It's an absolute crime the way agriculture has been left to rot in this country.

ba dum tis.

fergalr

orcanius. wrote: »

Agriculture, tourism and food/drink are the basis of the economy. The multinationals are only here for tax reasons and may not be around in 10 or 20 years' time when the technology has moved on or evolved. Lots of countries are copying Ireland's model and hence the half empty IDA parks all over the country.

Agriculture/food/drink:
Increasing technological knowledge has been driving down the price for food for 1000s of years. Food has been getting vastly cheaper and cheaper, per hour worked, in the developed world in the last 50 years. Better machines, biology, and genetic knowledge are only going to further decrease the price of food. If it weren't for EU subsidies, our agricultural economy would already have radically decreased in size, because other nations can produce food much cheaper.
Agriculture is a great part of our economy at the moment, and Ireland has a lot of good agricultural business, but its not a sustainable basis for the whole economy in the long run.

Tourism:
Tourism got expensive here. Euro foreign exchange rates, poor weather, lack of cheap labour have really removed the attractiveness of Ireland as a tourist destination. It made a lot of sense in the past when cost of living was so cheap here. With massive deflation, we could get back there. Is that a good plan?? Tourism in future will not be enough to support our expanding population.


The multinationals will indeed go to wherever the tax and costs are lowest.
We need to have a high value indigenous economy, before they do. High technology and the information age is the future.

Just because agriculture and tourism were good in the past, when food was more expensive and Ireland poorer, does not mean they are the solution in future. We are too small for heavy industry, too isolated to be a trading hub.

Education, technology, and climbing up the value chain is the only way to go.

orcanius.

Firefox11 wrote: »

It's an absolute crime the way agriculture and food industry has been left to rot in this country. The govt view is very narrow minded imho.

The govt can only do (and should only do) so much. If you can't make a living off a farm worth €Xm, there's always €205 per week + rent allowance.

Firefox11

The multinationals will indeed go to whereever the tax and costs are lowest.
We need to have a high value indigenous economy, before they do. High technology and the information age is the future.

This is true but the India, China and most of Eastern Europe have also stolen the march on us here too. For expamle alot of Eastern European countries have broadband infrastructure far ahead of ours.

KevinVonSpiel

This thread is bleeding edge, isn't it?

Saila

U2 have another accident? - oh man first bono and now him

Captain Darling

Saila wrote: »

U2 have another accident? - oh man first bono and now him

It took me a minute to get that.....

....then i facepalmed. :P:D

Chips Lovell

orcanius. wrote: »

Tech companies are letting people go.

No they're not. CSO stats show that IT and communications sector is one of the few that is actually seeing an increase in employment over the last three quarters.

RonMexico

Wait until the world finds out about our futuristic broadband technology...










...oh wait. Knowledge economy my hole.

zuutroy

Its a load of waffle. While they're barking out this crap on the news, Science Foundation Ireland are busy hacking the life out of all the projects they currently have running and the list of open calls for funding on their website is about 1/3 as long as the list of closed ones.

Handsome Bob

My name is URL wrote: »

How can a knowledge economy work when the government are paying for the education of people intent on leaving after they graduate?

Why, do you expect them to stay? Give most of them the option and I'm sure they would have preferred to work in their homeland and be close to their friends and families.

My name is URL

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Why, do you expect them to stay? Give most of them the option and I'm sure they would have preferred to work in their homeland and be close to their friends and families.

The government are the ones touting it as the way forward for the country.. not me. I wouldn't expect anyone to stay if there aren't any jobs. People leave even if there are jobs for them though

Stinicker

How the hell can we have a Knowledge economy when most of the country does not have access to any decent form of broadband internet? The knowledge economy was a term invented during another Fianna Fail spindoctor speech.

Irelands economy is rotten to the core and we have very little going for us right now. Until there is a change of government here then things will only get worse, however if labour is part of the next government then nothing will change either as we need to dismantle the welfare state which has kept people in poverty traps and kept the masses from rebelling against these economic traitors.

We need to get rid of the mess that is the public healthcare systema and systematically fire half of all public servents and cut the wages of the other half by 50% to get anywhere near close to what is normal levels of government bureaucracy everywhere else.

There is no economy and any person with a degree or any small bit of foresight will get the hell out of this country now. Ireland is finished and will take a long time to get back on our feet until this current shower in Dail Eireann are got rid of.

RonMexico

Stinicker wrote: »

We need to dismantle the welfare state which has kept people in poverty traps and kept the masses from rebelling against these economic traitors.

We need to get rid of the mess that is the public healthcare system and systematically fire half of all public servents and cut the wages of the other half by 50% to get anywhere near close to what is normal levels of government bureaucracy everywhere else.

There is no economy and any person with a degree or any small bit of foresight will get the hell out of this country now. Ireland is finished and will take a long time to get back on our feet until this current shower in Dail Eireann are got rid of.

Bingo. The Government and the Opposition are a waste of space. They all need to go. Useless. Utterly useless.