Advice on first time build..

phoenix833

Hey,

I was looking to buy a new desktop and kinda had a start off budget of about 600-700, the cheaper the better obviously. I was doing a bit of looking around here and saw that most of you recommend to build your own. If it's half as easy as you guys say it is i'd be willing to give it a shot. If anybody could give me a rough shopping list for what my requirements might need i'd be happy out!

Im doing architecture in college so i'll be running:
3d max studio
photoshop cs3
acad 10
sketch up...programmes like that.

My initial guess is that i'll need 4gb+ ram, a fairly fast processor (was kinda thinking i5 maybe), 1gb+ graphics card. Good sized HDD too. All I want at the moment is the basic necessary stuff to get the system up and running and functioning hopefully Then as i have more money i'll add extra luxuries to it.

To be honest i know sweet fa about computers so any advice about products/compatibility would be appreciated.
Thanks

massy086

try this just pick different ram

phoenix833

Thanks for the reply massey086 but are these products easy to get? Online is probably the best place to get them?

I apologise for my ignorance on this kinda stuff but all what you listed would be the necessary components to get started?

massy086

ye here is a link to the site i picked from http://www1.hardwareversand.de/home.jsp;jsessionid=950E3F086FC882FCF72AEE857B76FF6C.www1?lid=2

Overheal

This guide is pretty comprehensive and makes for an easy read. Good as a Digest for first time PC builders who may have limited hardware knowledge and.or knowhow.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-your-own-pc,2601.html

phoenix833

That is some website lads. Im going to have a browse through it and try go with something along your recommendations massey thanks.

Have you ever used this to buy stuff before? And do you know will they accept finance from outside germany or it an upfront payment?
Sorry for all the Q's!

massy086

they will take payment from outside many people here use the they have a flat rate delivery of 30 euro

phoenix833

Thanks for all the info massey. Appreciate it very much. One last question and it'll hopefully see me through. Which would be the better processor to go with the i5-760 or the amd phenom x6, both run at 2.8 GHz, for the cad work? It will be high rendering stuff.

Iv read that no many programmes will utilise the extra 2 cores now but for the future would the X6 be better? Both are almost the same price.

massy086

HMM IM NOT THE BEST WITH AMD(IV ONLY EVER HAD INTEL) SO COULD NOT TELL YOU JACK ABOUT THEM SORRY BUT AN I5 750 OVERCLOCKED TO 4GHZ SHOULD BE PERFECT IM CONVERTING A 1GB AVI TO DVD IN 5 MINS WITH AN I5-750

phoenix833

Ok so i'v been messing around on that site and based on the list you gave me so here's what iv come up with:

Intel Core i5-760 Box 8192Kb, LGA1156
Gigabyte GA-H55M-S2H, Intel H55, mATX, DDR3, PCI-Express
4GB-Kit Corsair DDR3 PC1600 C9 Classic
JCP Midi Tower ATX "Dark Crystal", schwarz, 500W (I assume a fan will be supplied with this)
Sapphire HD 5770 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express
Scythe Katana 3, nur für Intel-CPUs
Samsung SpinPoint F3 500GB, SATA II (HD502HJ)
LG GH22NS40/NS30 bare schwarz SATA II
Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio (bulk) - 30SB079200000

It wont let me pick more than 1 block of RAM. Any ideas why? Any upgrade tips ill be helpful thanks.

marco_polo

phoenix833 wrote: »

It wont let me pick more than 1 block of RAM. Any ideas why? Any upgrade tips ill be helpful thanks.

So you don't end up with two spare sticks of RAM

Only 2 slots on that particular board, that is actually a very impressive level of attention to detail by HWVS.de

If you get a full ATX board instead of an m-ATX board it will have extra RAM slots.

Since you a spending a fair bit on the PC already I think you should skimp too much on a noname PSU and case.

Chuck Finlay

Heyho, I saw this thread and felt the urge to register and further underline what marco_polo said. It might sound exagerrated, but imho the power supply is the most important part of every build.

Recommendable PSUs for a reasonable price on hardwareversand.de are i.e. the Cougar A400 or the Corsair CX400.
45 Bucks might sound a lot to you right now, but then you probably never have had a PSU die on you before Plus you get 3 years of warranty from both these manufacturers, apart from that they should last you way longer than that anyway.

You never know what you get from built-in no-name PSUs. They aren't called 'chinese firecrackers' for no reason http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTVEtr14FEA

Then you would still be left without a case. A quite popular cheaper one would be one of the Xigmatek Asgard series for around 30 bucks, available on hardwareversand, too.

I'm sorry if this is going to rip away another 40 quid from you, but the thing is: one can always consider saving a few bucks on USB3.0 or SATA6GB/s support, whether you really need CL7 instead of CL9 RAM, or whether you really need those shiny LED lights. But not on the power supply

Overheal

phoenix833 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info massey. Appreciate it very much. One last question and it'll hopefully see me through. Which would be the better processor to go with the i5-760 or the amd phenom x6, both run at 2.8 GHz, for the cad work? It will be high rendering stuff.

Iv read that no many programmes will utilise the extra 2 cores now but for the future would the X6 be better? Both are almost the same price.

Everything I have read points at the i5 being a better buy for gaming; rendering, Im not even seeing anyone compare an i5 with the X6: they're comparing the X6 to the i7. Hexa and Octo-core processors in the i7 and i5 should be forthcoming but I dont know when. Also worth noting an i5 Clarkdale will have the Turboboost feature in it, as mentioned in the link.

Lu Tze

Check up Autodesks (Cad and 3ds Max) website to see if your graphics card is supported, makes a big difference, with the little i played around with 3D in cad.

It more than likely will be but i know in cad its optimised for the pro cards, or used to be, remember reading something about the clarity/definition of lines reproduced on screen on consumer versus pro card, probably bollocks but that was why they were charging a couple of hundred extra for the pro versions!

phoenix833

marco_polo wrote: »

If you get a full ATX board instead of an m-ATX board it will have extra RAM slots.

Since you a spending a fair bit on the PC already I think you should skimp too much on a noname PSU and case.

So you thing i'd be better off buying a full ATX so i can add more RAM in future? And a good PSU and case should be considered also?

Overheal wrote: »

Everything I have read points at the i5 being a better buy for gaming; rendering, Im not even seeing anyone compare an i5 with the X6: they're comparing the X6 to the i7. Hexa and Octo-core processors in the i7 and i5 should be forthcoming but I dont know when. Also worth noting an i5 Clarkdale will have the Turboboost feature in it, as mentioned in the link.

The amd x6 is the same price as the i5 750 thats the only reason I had considered it but the components for the i5 are much easier to configure so i'll go with that.

phoenix833

I took apart my old PC last night and in fairness it seems pretty straight forward to do. Thanks for all the advice!

Monotype

phoenix833 wrote: »

Im doing architecture in college so i'll be running:
3d max studio
photoshop cs3
acad 10
sketch up...programmes like that.

phoenix833 wrote: »

Thanks for all the info massey. Appreciate it very much. One last question and it'll hopefully see me through. Which would be the better processor to go with the i5-760 or the amd phenom x6, both run at 2.8 GHz, for the cad work? It will be high rendering stuff.

Iv read that no many programmes will utilise the extra 2 cores now but for the future would the X6 be better? Both are almost the same price.

Here's a good comparison chart.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=147#
The i5 does better in nearly all games here. The reviews I've seen say that X6 does better in photoshop CS3-5. 3dsmax trades blows, maybe a slight advantage to the X6 and I haven't seen any benchmarks comparing autocad. The X6 might be at a disadvantage in the benchmarks if current programs aren't optimised to make use of the extra cores, so it may be more future proof (or become obsolete by the time it reaches its full potential). The price of i5 boards has come down so AMD no longer have a big edge, so whatever it's you prefer.

The amd x6 is the same price as the i5 750 thats the only reason I had considered it but the components for the i5 are much easier to configure so i'll go with that.

The heatsink?

phoenix833 wrote: »

So you thing i'd be better off buying a full ATX so i can add more RAM in future? And a good PSU and case should be considered also?

I think the extra RAM room could be useful, especially in that field. RAM will hopefully become more affordable over the next year or two and should give you a nice upgrade.

Were you considering using the PSU that came with the case? That's computer suicide. Go with the CX400 as Chuck recommended or something better. You do not want to skimp here.

Edit: Also, do you need an OS? Windows? You might be able to get a free/cheap copy with you college or use http://www.software4students.ie/ to get W7 Pro for €45.45.

VenomIreland

I'm quite surprised by those results from anandtech, I thought lack of hyper-threading would've killed the 750 in those benchmarks.

Ah well, at least the 1055T seems to be crazy easy to Overclock, going by what some people on other sites say.

VenomIreland

Also, those benchies make me wish I would've been able to get the 750 when building my PC

Monotype

VenomIreland wrote: »

I'm quite surprised by those results from anandtech, I thought lack of hyper-threading would've killed the 750 in those benchmarks.

Ah well, at least the 1055T seems to be crazy easy to Overclock, going by what some people on other sites say.

Well, the X6s are still only trying to compete with the i5s. They're priced for the performance you get, but it's usually in the motherboards you can save the money. I wouldn't completely write off the X6 yet though. Most of the games aren't performing a whole lot better on the X6 over a similar clocked X4, which the i5 is always going to outperform with the same clock. The games in the anandtech benchmarks are not really cutting edge (but it's good to have a spread) while reviews showing Dirt 2 look very promising with performance up with the i7s. Keep in mind, the development length of these games are substantial and hexacores are only out a few months. But what you might be able to do with a processor in time doesn't sell them.

VenomIreland wrote: »

Also, those benchies make me wish I would've been able to get the 750 when building my PC

Alas, if only Intel gave away free processors to everyone who wanted them.

Edit: Shows core utilisation - http://www.techspot.com/review/269-amd-phenom2-x6-1090T-and-1055T/page8.html

Overheal

VenomIreland wrote: »

Ah well, at least the 1055T seems to be crazy easy to Overclock, going by what some people on other sites say.

Keep in mind the multiplier is locked on the 1055t you'd want the 1090t (Black Edition) to make life a tad easier.

phoenix833

Monotype wrote: »

I think the extra RAM room could be useful, especially in that field. RAM will hopefully become more affordable over the next year or two and should give you a nice upgrade.

Were you considering using the PSU that came with the case? That's computer suicide. Go with the CX400 as Chuck recommended or something better. You do not want to skimp here.

Edit: Also, do you need an OS? Windows? You might be able to get a free/cheap copy with you college or use http://www.software4students.ie/ to get W7 Pro for €45.45.

I'll admit my computer knowledge was fairly low starting this thread but thanks to all the posters its increased tenfold. I know now that the PSU and case should be bought seperately.
Ill go with the 4gb RAM for now and im gonna get a full ATX mobo so I can add more RAM later.

Thanks for that software link btw. Im sure ill be using it.

Everything you said points me towards the i5 so i'm sure ill go with that thanks. Im still stumped on the graphics card. I know 3d Max etc. are heavy graphics dependant but do i really need to spend 150-200 on a graphics card?

Would my money be better off on a very good mobo and PSU. (I'm down with the computer lingo already:D)

VenomIreland

Overheal wrote: »

Keep in mind the multiplier is locked on the 1055t you'd want the 1090t (Black Edition) to make life a tad easier.

Not worth an extra €100 to me.

Monotype

VenomIreland wrote: »

Not worth an extra €100 to me.

I agree. 50% extra cost is too much to ask for an unlocked multiplier. You might get a better selected quality processor, but the chances are that it's not going to be more than 200mhz of a difference unless you've got liquid nitrogen or something.

phoenix833 wrote: »

Im still stumped on the graphics card. I know 3d Max etc. are heavy graphics dependant but do i really need to spend 150-200 on a graphics card?

Would my money be better off on a very good mobo and PSU. (I'm down with the computer lingo already:D)

I don't think above 150 is necessary. I haven't had any experience with these programs, but they're definitely availing of graphics cards more than they used to. IMO, maybe choose a cheaper 5770 than the one you have. Even the 512MB ones are quite nice. What do you have for a monitor and what's the resolution?

Spending more on the PSU isn't an option, it's a necessity. As for the board (I prefer 'board' or MB or motherboard to mobo), is there anything you'd like to have on your motherboard? Extra PCI-E slots, USB 3? It's a good idea not to go ultra-cheap with them, but you pay a good bit more for all the lovely niceties.

I had a look around and most people are saying that autocad and 3dsmax only really use the graphics cards for displaying the view ports and not really much for rendering. You need a reasonable card if you have a lot on screen with movement or lighting etc. Some were recommending the 5850s because they have double precision which aids in performance, but they're nearly €300. Other option would be to pick up a 3000 or 4000 series and flash to a firegl.

phoenix833

Monotype wrote: »

I don't think above 150 is necessary. I haven't had any experience with these programs, but they're definitely availing of graphics cards more than they used to. IMO, maybe choose a cheaper 5770 than the one you have. Even the 512MB ones are quite nice. What do you have for a monitor and what's the resolution?

Spending more on the PSU isn't an option, it's a necessity. As for the board (I prefer 'board' or MB or motherboard to mobo), is there anything you'd like to have on your motherboard? Extra PCI-E slots, USB 3? It's a good idea not to go ultra-cheap with them, but you pay a good bit more for all the lovely niceties.

Well I was going with this MB:
Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3, Intel P55, ATX, DDR3, PCI-Express about €105...all I want in it really is room for addition of RAM when i can afford it.

this is the PSU that i considered
http://www4.hardwareversand.de/pcconfselect.jsp?pcConfigurator.catid=44&pcConfigurator.maid=0&search.reset=1&search.sKey=

And I think I'll go with this Graphics card...
Sapphire HD 5770 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express

Would all those be decent enough components?

Monotype

Those links don't work. Can you post the PSU again?

The motherboard looks good, with plenty of expansion room. The reviews seem to be positive, although a lot of people are recommending that the extra money (€18) is spent on this one to have 6Gbps SATA. I think it's probably not worth the money in your case unless you plan a big RAID or SSDs.

phoenix833 wrote: »

And I think I'll go with this Graphics card...
Sapphire HD 5770 1GB GDDR5 PCI-Express

At least it's gone down €6 from the earlier post.

phoenix833

Monotype wrote: »

Those links don't work. Can you post the PSU again?

The motherboard looks good, with plenty of expansion room. The reviews seem to be positive, although a lot of people are recommending that the extra money (€18) is spent on this one to have 6Gbps SATA. I think it's probably not worth the money in your case unless you plan a big RAID or SSDs.

At least it's gone down €6 from the earlier post.

Sorry here's the link for the PSU...hope it works this time
PSU
Or maybe this one

Monotype

I don't know what's happening with those links, but I assume it's these two
Xilence Power ECO 550 Watt / SPS-XP550.(12)G
Cooler Master GX Series PSU - 550 Watt

I wouldn't put either of those PSUs into my computer. I don't know much about xilences, so they're not infamously bad or famously good. The coolermaster GX series isn't good. Both are probably not the worst around, but that's not good enough for something that all your components rely upon! What's the maximum you're willing to spend and we'll try to recommend all the PSUs of that range?

phoenix833

Yeah those are the two. Im not sure really how much to spend. Considering its such an important part of the build would a budget of 70 or 80 at a push be any good or would you need to be going higher?

Monotype

The CX400 is the recommended one for keeping the cost down. It's €45.19 and 400W. You'll probably be only using 300W or so, but this gives a little extra room if you want to throw in an extra few hard drives, more RAM, small overclock.

The next one up is the OCZ StealthXStream 500W. At €46.24, this is good value mainly because of the stealthxstream 2 is on the market. The main downside with this PSU is that it only has 3 SATA cables.

Seasonic S12II-380 Bronze, 380 Watt - Probably the same as the CX400.

Enermax Eco80+ 350W - Quiet and efficient PSU but expensive for 350W, and a bit more room would be favourable.

OCZ StealthXStream 600W - This is a good PSU, but like the 500W, it only has 3 SATA connectors. On the bright side it's got 6 pin and 8 pin PCI-E connectors (good for two 5770s or one 5850).

Antec EarthWatts 650W - Made by delta. Pretty good but only has a single 6/8 pin PCI-E connector. Semi modular.

Antec Truepower New 550W - €75. Very good PSU. Stable, efficient, semi-modular and cables for multiple graphics cards.

XFX 650 Watt Very good. Semi-modular, lots of room for expansion.

Any of these PSUs and a few I didn't look at will cover you. In most cases, you can use adapters to get an extra hard drive, if you need it. You can even do this a lot of times with the graphics card too, although you have to be more careful. PSU technology doesn't change very fast, so a good one can be reused.
The last two would be recommended if you think you'll be getting multiple graphics cards. Maybe pick one of the 500W+ ones if you think you'll be doing more than light overclocking.

phoenix833

Monotype wrote: »

The CX400 is the recommended one for keeping the cost down. It's €45.19 and 400W. You'll probably be only using 300W or so, but this gives a little extra room if you want to throw in an extra few hard drives, more RAM, small overclock.

The next one up is the OCZ StealthXStream 500W. At €46.24, this is good value mainly because of the stealthxstream 2 is on the market. The main downside with this PSU is that it only has 3 SATA cables.

Seasonic S12II-380 Bronze, 380 Watt - Probably the same as the CX400.

Enermax Eco80+ 350W - Quiet and efficient PSU but expensive for 350W, and a bit more room would be favourable.

OCZ StealthXStream 600W - This is a good PSU, but like the 500W, it only has 3 SATA connectors. On the bright side it's got 6 pin and 8 pin PCI-E connectors (good for two 5770s or one 5850).

Antec EarthWatts 650W - Made by delta. Pretty good but only has a single 6/8 pin PCI-E connector. Semi modular.

Antec Truepower New 550W - €75. Very good PSU. Stable, efficient, semi-modular and cables for multiple graphics cards.

XFX 650 Watt Very good. Semi-modular, lots of room for expansion.

Any of these PSUs and a few I didn't look at will cover you. In most cases, you can use adapters to get an extra hard drive, if you need it. You can even do this a lot of times with the graphics card too, although you have to be more careful. PSU technology doesn't change very fast, so a good one can be reused.
The last two would be recommended if you think you'll be getting multiple graphics cards. Maybe pick one of the 500W+ ones if you think you'll be doing more than light overclocking.

Ah thats brilliant monotype...thanks very much for all the info. Whenever I get sorted and have it all assembled i'll let ya know how its running.

Thanks a million for everybodys help again:)