Poor GAA Attendances

liammur

I don't think I've seen 1 game all summer with a capacity crowd. Some big games had pathetic attendances like clare v waterford, limerick v cork. Even the so called 'dubs' have turned their back on their team in a huge way. Worrying times for the GAA.
Has rugby surpassed both football and hurling for entertainment ?

Diabhal Beag

No it's just a mix of ticket prices that are idiotically high and matches on television (too many qualifiers were shown on TV).

Something needs to be done IMO.

listermint

Is this a thread about attendences or 'so called dubs'... Im confused.

liammur

attendances,
but the dublin supporters have been badly shown up this year. Fair weather is an under statement. I'll be expecting a capacity crowd for the semi-final now though
(but to be fair all supporters seem to be voting with their feet)

listermint

True, I think employment and ticket pricing adversely effected the big attendances. Its a trend that has to be expected.

But in fairness 1 millionth attendee passed through Croke Park yesterday for this years attendances. So its not too bad.

goingpostal

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2010/0727/1224275546398.html
Interesting piece from last mondays Irish Times. It has a whiff of PR journalism/churnalism about it, but I assume his figures are accurate. I think there are lots of factors contributing to poor attendances, including too many one-sided matches in what has become a fairly predictable pair of championships, too expensive to travel to games when you can watch them all for nothing on the telly, too many poor matches being broadcast on TV, which are not showing gaelic games in a flattering or entertaining light, matches being broadcast at all sorts of hours (7pm on a Saturday evening in thurles for a Munster Final replay?!) unemployment and recession. The GAA is caught in a bit of a bind, in that they can't row back on the back-door system because of the imperatives of the TV companies for more games, even though it is hurting the championships. Televising every single game and still expecting bumper crowds is a bit like having your cake and eating it too.

An Citeog

liammur wrote: »

attendances,
but the dublin supporters have been badly shown up this year. Fair weather is an under statement. I'll be expecting a capacity crowd for the semi-final now though
(but to be fair all supporters seem to be voting with their feet)

Attendances are down all over the country, so it's not just Dublin fans. If you continue trying to stir shít, I wont have any problems dishing out an infraction/ban.

liammur

'If you continue trying to stir shít', .......is rather a bit crude i would say.

We are all agreed attendances are down everywhere, but everyone knows with dublin playing at home, if they won't travel, yearly GAA attendances will be affected.

So chill.

munstergirl

My dad nearly went to gaelic grounds in limerick, then he saw it was €25 to get in, so he left came home and watched match on telly.

If they want to fill the gaelic grounds in limerick they need to make it affordable €10.

wixfjord

"So called Dubs"

The Dubs fans get so much stick about this, yet the fact is every county has this. Actually Kerry and Kilkenny are notoriously two of the worst traveling sets of supporters. My own county is famed for its support, and for no reason imo, we're as fair weather as anyone.

micks

liammur wrote: »

attendances,
but the dublin supporters have been badly shown up this year. Fair weather is an under statement. I'll be expecting a capacity crowd for the semi-final now though
(but to be fair all supporters seem to be voting with their feet)

Most would say Dublin have been poo for a long time, you're saying they've been good till now?

liammur

Yes, kerry and kilkenny supporters always wait for the finals so it is def good that there will be new winners this year in football.
I would regard wexford as loyal but that has been tested in recent years, a bit like limerick.What i was referring to the with the 'dubs' comment is I hear so much about their fans on rte, 'the impact of the hill' etc but that has been quietened down recently. I'd be happy to see any of the counties left in the football to win it this year.

listermint

liammur wrote: »

Yes, kerry and kilkenny supporters always wait for the finals so it is def good that there will be new winners this year in football.
I would regard wexford as loyal but that has been tested in recent years, a bit like limerick.What i was referring to the with the 'dubs' comment is I hear so much about their fans on rte, 'the impact of the hill' etc but that has been quietened down recently. I'd be happy to see any of the counties left in the football to win it this year.

The hill fills first when dublin are playing... So not much quietening down there. Maybe your talking about the media hype quieting down. Thats a good thing as most journalists talk sh%$e anyway to 'grab the headlines'

deisedevil

liammur wrote: »

I would regard wexford as loyal but that has been tested in recent years, a bit like limerick.

Waterford fans have always gone out in their droves but it's been a totally different story this year. So many people I know who never miss a game have not gone to any matches this year. Only at the replayed Munster final myself this year because of an injury For both matches against Cork the attendance was nothing compared to other Munster finals I have been at. Twas sad to see.

liammur

The munster hurling chamionship was the worst i ever remember. Maybe some of this was down to the fiasco in limerick, but such a small crowd for waterford v cork final was shocking.

popebenny16

There are a couple of reasons why general attendances are down (although according to the GAA it is only by 2%) and a couple of reasons why Dublin's attendance is down.

General attendance is down because of the general economic situation. It is the same in every walk of life, in fairness the GAA bucked the trend last year, this year it has caught up big time. This is everywhere and all attendances are down, but hidden by the number of replays and the presence of the bigger teams in the qualifiers. The main factor is that unlike any other retailer the GAA seems to think they can stick with height of the boom celtic tiger prices and hope there is no effect. They have been proven wrong, not only are ticket prices the same as last year and the year before, but the all important fast food prices are the same - and they are a disgrace. Try bringing two children to each game as I have done this year and watch either your wallet burn or annoying your kids.

In specific relation to the dub attendance - firstly the economy has also plunged in dublin and that is a factor - also after years of turning up in their tens of thousands and watching their team being hammered it is no wonder that their was no massive desire to turn up at 6pm on a Saturday for a match everyone knew they would win and then at 5pm and 4 pm on successive saturdays. Its not a cheap day out no matter what you think. Even with the drop in attendances the dublin support is still a massive margin over everyone elses - look at the pathetic turnout last week (but that is nothing new, every year the hurling quarter finals attract nobody).

The plain fact is that faced with having to be more choosy with their money like everyone else the dublin attendance has dropped, it is only more noticable as the support has been consistently high for the past ten years. The wonder is that a team with no all ireland form at all was getting full houses not that they are not this year.

Floppybits

popebenny16 wrote: »

There are a couple of reasons why general attendances are down (although according to the GAA it is only by 2%) and a couple of reasons why Dublin's attendance is down.

General attendance is down because of the general economic situation. It is the same in every walk of life, in fairness the GAA bucked the trend last year, this year it has caught up big time. This is everywhere and all attendances are down, but hidden by the number of replays and the presence of the bigger teams in the qualifiers. The main factor is that unlike any other retailer the GAA seems to think they can stick with height of the boom celtic tiger prices and hope there is no effect. They have been proven wrong, not only are ticket prices the same as last year and the year before, but the all important fast food prices are the same - and they are a disgrace. Try bringing two children to each game as I have done this year and watch either your wallet burn or annoying your kids.

In specific relation to the dub attendance - firstly the economy has also plunged in dublin and that is a factor - also after years of turning up in their tens of thousands and watching their team being hammered it is no wonder that their was no massive desire to turn up at 6pm on a Saturday for a match everyone knew they would win and then at 5pm and 4 pm on successive saturdays. Its not a cheap day out no matter what you think. Even with the drop in attendances the dublin support is still a massive margin over everyone elses - look at the pathetic turnout last week (but that is nothing new, every year the hurling quarter finals attract nobody).

The plain fact is that faced with having to be more choosy with their money like everyone else the dublin attendance has dropped, it is only more noticable as the support has been consistently high for the past ten years. The wonder is that a team with no all ireland form at all was getting full houses not that they are not this year.

Add to this also the softening up of the game. Nowadays we dont get to see good hits on players like we use to, this for me has dampened going to the games. The one thing for me that set the GAA apart was the physicality in the game and that now has gone, no longer allowed to shoulder, players throwing themselves on the ground. Simply the exciting parts of the game are gone, I would have loved to have seen the mark rule for fielding the ball from a kick out stay in because it would encourage that part of the game. I think a rethink and reintroduction of some of the old rules especially the shoulder be put back in to bring a bit of bite back into the game. If you want to watch a non contact game there is always soccer.:D

hardybuck

liammur wrote: »

The munster hurling chamionship was the worst i ever remember. Maybe some of this was down to the fiasco in limerick, but such a small crowd for waterford v cork final was shocking.

You must remember that Waterford was absolutely ravaged by job losses over the past couple of years. Look at Waterford Crystal for example.

As great as Thurles is, its awkward getting to. Over 2hrs from the city on match days, bad for parking, and the replay was on a wet Saturday night. You can see why people with young kids wouldn't bother.

Daysha

Ok I've cleaned up this thread a bit to make it somewhat respectable.

The thread is called "Poor GAA Attendances". If you guys can't debate that without getting into anti-Dublin arguments, pro-Dublin arguments, nonsense off-topic posts or anything else that isn't related to the thread in hand, I'm going to close it.

JMSE

The modern puke football that all teams are playing now isnt as good to watch as where there were 6 forwards playing generally in position, seeing Shane O'Rourke alone in front of the goal today was depressing

popebenny16

JMSE wrote: »

The modern puke football that all teams are playing now isnt as good to watch as where there were 6 forwards playing generally in position, seeing Shane O'Rourke alone in front of the goal today was depressing

that brand of football has been in vogue for seven or eight years now and has not stopped attendances

besides the attendances for the hurling are far worse, which will annoy the hurling taliban no end

goat2

Daysha wrote: »

Ok I've cleaned up this thread a bit to make it somewhat respectable.

The thread is called "Poor GAA Attendances". If you guys can't debate that without getting into anti-Dublin arguments, pro-Dublin arguments, nonsense off-topic posts or anything else that isn't related to the thread in hand, I'm going to close it.

i dont think it is anything to do with the gaa, every event in this country is down, even music festivals, the only reason i can find is, people who have work have less wages with all the cuts, also those of us who lost jobs definately cannot go as we have the same bills with half the cash not to cover them,
it is all down to being strapped for cash, needs must.

dirtyden

goat2 wrote: »

i dont think it is anything to do with the gaa, every event in this country is down, even music festivals, the only reason i can find is, people who have work have less wages with all the cuts, also those of us who lost jobs definately cannot go as we have the same bills with half the cash not to cover them,
it is all down to being strapped for cash, needs must.

Personally I think this is the main reason, oxygen did not sell out this year, cork opera house has had to shut its doors indefinitely for financial reasons, probably more examples, most entertainment events are suffering. Prices were jacked up big time in the last 10 years, if you want to get punters back in price accordingly. Not raising prices is not enough, almost everyone has much less money so a reduction of 25-30% is whats required. This probably still wont attract the same numbers back but it would help. I would not be surprised if the hurling final this year does not sell out, even last year there seemed to no great bother in getting ur hands on a ticket.

liammur

Well i read the galway races were up 5% so that put's that theory to bed.

jack presley

10% of Dublin's 40,000 supporters don't show up = 4,000
10% of Kerry's 4,000 supporters don't show up = 400.

That's the reason Dublin fans get stick. It's just more noticeable. It's the same when games get delayed because of fans turning up late. When 10% of Tipperary's 5,000 fans arrive late, 500 can easily be accommodated at the turnstiles, but when 10% of the Dubs arrive late, the game gets delayed because there's more of them.

Arbitrary figures of course

liammur

Good point, only i'd say maybe 50% of dublin supporters have given up, as someone on another thread said there were only 60,000 between 4 counties.

dublin, tyrone and down probably 19,500 each

kerry 1000.

Bluetonic

I would say 100% of the main/key Dublin supporters were at every game.

You have to remember that Dublin get 5k-7k for league games and being honest thats around the number of key supports Dublin have.

The rest are day trippers and people who are more interested in the event than the team unfortunately.

delta_bravo

liammur wrote: »

Good point, only i'd say maybe 50% of dublin supporters have given up, as someone on another thread said there were only 60,000 between 4 counties.

dublin, tyrone and down probably 19,500 each

kerry 1000.

Speaking from a Dublin view, these people you call supporters were nothing like that. Friends of mine regularly went to Dublin games that never kicked an O'Neills balls or went to a club game. They just went along for the pints before and after and to sing a few songs. While they obviously financially contribute to the GAA their loss isn't going to effect the sport overall.

Case in point actually I know a guy that bought a ticket for the Dublin Wexford game, went in to town early to have his drinks; didnt bother go support the hurlers in the first game and when he saw the rain was bucketing down he stayed in the pub and watched the game in there even though he had a ticket!

liammur

That's interesting.

I thought dublin may have had up to 20,000 core fans up until this year.

Similarly i have to revise the number of fans cork hurling have, nowhere near as high as i thought judging by this year's pathetic turnout.

dirtyden

liammur wrote: »

Well i read the galway races were up 5% so that put's that theory to bed.

Exceptions to every trend.

Dont think it quite puts the theory that people spend less during a harsh recession to bed.

namloc1980

liammur wrote: »

That's interesting.

I thought dublin may have had up to 20,000 core fans up until this year.

Similarly i have to revise the number of fans cork hurling have, nowhere near as high as i thought judging by this year's pathetic turnout.

There are number of reasons why Cork hurling fans are not going to games as they used to. Firstly alot of people are still pissed off with the strikes that have been a feature of this hurling panel in recent times, secondly the current Cork team is not the best or close to the best ever put out by the county and thirdly, with Kilkenny winning all around them, hurling in general is in decline. If KK beat the crap out of Cork next week and go on to win the All-Ireland again (very likely) then I think even more people will drift away from hurling, not only in Cork but in other counties as well.

liammur

Are munster rugby having an impact down in cork?

namloc1980

liammur wrote: »

Are munster rugby having an impact down in cork?

They are having some impact alright but it's hard to know how much. There are certainly alot more people wearing Munster jerseys around Cork these days, at least as many as there are Cork GAA jerseys, if not more. Munster market their 'product' much better than the GAA do. They have a Munster Rugby store in the city centre and they regularly have Munster players drop in to sign jerseys etc. Even Cork City FC had a club shop in the city centre before they went bust, but the GAA would never dream of anything like that. The GAA really need to step up this aspect. A generation of children are more drawn to the well marketed machines of Munster and Premier League etc than the GAA.

liammur

A friend of mine was telling me that 10 years ago rugby was small in cork, but that it has grown hugely since.

flutered

liammur wrote: »

A friend of mine was telling me that 10 years ago rugby was small in cork, but that it has grown hugely since.

rugby has and always have have a following in cork,

namloc1980

flutered wrote: »

rugby has and always have have a following in cork,

Of course but their are alot of nouveau Munster fans that have jumped on board the band wagon in recent years.

homerjay2005

overpricing and alot of the games being s*ite doesnt help either...

there surely comes a time when the gaa says that enough profit is enough and they reduce their prices. everything else is coming down in price, they should reduce them by 10euro going forward next year.

liammur

i read an article early in the summer by waterford hurler john mullane and he said in the middle of a recession and it's an amateur game and prices should be no more than €10. In fairness to him, he was proven right.

Limestone1

namloc1980 wrote: »

Of course but their are alot of nouveau Munster fans that have jumped on board the band wagon in recent years.

Every year , every team has some new fans ....

DH2K9

This thread is a complete over reaction. It is a recession, therefore people have less money, therefore they have to cut spending, so therefore activities like sport matches are the first to be cut. Pretty simple stuff.

liammur

Galway races were up 5%, and that involves spending a lot of cash!

It's not just cash alone, i'm fairly sure of that.

deisedevil

I don't think it's down to just the money. There's without a doubt less families going to matches and this would mean 4+ people not going to a match that normally would have. Just imagine that with the 0.5% increase in your mortgage and having to pay out an extra 100 quid a month, you'd put the family day out on the back burner fairly quickly alright.

For many people I know they are just not willing to go through the hassle of sitting in queues of traffic for ages after matches and get back home late when they can sit in a pub and watch the match, have their few pints and no driving. That's the answer I have been getting all over the place. Personally I find the difference between watching it live and being there is huge and would do my best to go rather than watch it on TV.

I think TV has become very attractive to some who would previously have gone to matches religously, that's going to be a tricky one for the GAA to sort out.

MementoMori

liammur wrote: »

Galway races were up 5%, and that involves spending a lot of cash!

It's not just cash alone, i'm fairly sure of that.

i think the Galway races thing is a bit of a red herring - It was only up 5% on last years races, which iirc was down something like 25%.

Also I'd say if you asked hoteliers, pub-owners and restauranteurs around Galway what it was like and I'd imagine that they would saying that the spend was still way down on previous years. I'd imagine the amount of money bet was probably substanially down from two/three years ago too.

People simply don't have the discretionary income to spend.

The number of Kerry people travelling this weekend was definately partially down due to the Irish Open. Being from Killarney I knew a fair few who didn't travel because of either being invovled in the hosting/running of the Open or because they wanted to see the golf on their door step as opposed to travelling 10 hours to watch a game Kerry were widely expected to win.

I've heard countless numbers of people going on about the price of games (both club and inter-county) this year compared to last. The general feeling that with prices pretty much everywhere going down, freezing the prices for an amateur game isn't exactly overtly generous.

popebenny16

people are being choosy, nothing in that, many kerry people dont bother with the Quarters anyway, nor even the semi's, depending on the opposition.

the same with tipperary hurling support - the waterford match will hardly be a sell out will it, and that is an all ireland semi final.

Parnell Park will sell out, and does regularly, for top class matches, so you could say that the core support is around 10,000, as the capacity is 12,000, but maybe it could be more than 10,000 as we just have no way of knowing.

i cannot see the logic in people on this board wondering what is wrong with dublin supporters doing what the supporters of other counties have been doing for years and not turning up for matches that they expect to win at a stroll. Signs were there for the westmeath match last year, this year its coming home to roost.

and it is everywhere - sure even the holy of holies munster hurling final was a disaster attendance wise this year.

goingpostal

Another point that should be made is that it is cyclical. I remember reading the statistics for attendances in the late seventies/eighties and they were very poor compared to the nineties/noughties. We are coming off the back of a huge boom in GAA attendances, it had to fall a bit sometime.

Bluetonic

popebenny16 wrote: »

Parnell Park will sell out, and does regularly, for top class matches, so you could say that the core support is around 10,000, as the capacity is 12,000, but maybe it could be more than 10,000 as we just have no way of knowing.

When was the last time it was sold out?

Certainty not once in the last 36 months, most likely longer it's just my old memory can't help me out.

Average attendance for the last three years has been in and around 6,000 if lucky.

Anyhow interesting letter from 2008 which sums up your other point pretty well.

jack presley

It's not just GAA. I wonder how many games at Thomand park or Donnybrook were sold out 15 years ago.

Fan: "But there was no Heineken Cup then".
Well are you 'loyal' fan or a bandwagon jumper like all those Dublin GAA fans?

deisedevil

jack presley wrote: »

It's not just GAA. I wonder how many games at Thomand park or Donnybrook were sold out 15 years ago.

Fan: "But there was no Heineken Cup then".
Well are you 'loyal' fan or a bandwagon jumper like all those Dublin GAA fans?

So you can't follow a team when they start having success then is it, you have to be a fan before success otherwise you should stay away completely and find another team to follow, would that be your theory?

jack presley

deisedevil wrote: »

So you can't follow a team when they start having success then is it, you have to be a fan before success otherwise you should stay away completely and find another team to follow, would that be your theory?

No, not at all. My point was that fans of certain teams get accused of being fair weather supporters and I was just pointing out that all teams in all sports have fans who come on board when the team gets successful. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just pointing it out.

deisedevil

jack presley wrote: »

No, not at all. My point was that fans of certain teams get accused of being fair weather supporters and I was just pointing out that all teams in all sports have fans who come on board when the team gets successful. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. I'm just pointing it out.

Sorry, got that very wrong then.

liammur

Most GAA fans are fair weather. (this summer has proven that).
Similarly with rugby.

It's only a place like Leeds/Newcastle utd, where come what may they'll support their team to the death.