Carrying weapon for self protection

Builderfromhell

Hope this query is not outside forum rules. If so please delete.

I am curious to know if carrying, or keeping at home or at work, a weapon such as a tazer or pepper spray is illegal. The reason I ask is my wife opened a new business in January and has been a victim of an armed robbery once (never investigated) and another robbery and 2 attempted robberies. I live 5-10 minutes drive away but have not managed to catch robbers when phoned.

For this reason I was considering getting her, and my daughters, a tazer or pepper spray.

Victor

Illegal. I understand less than 5 people in the whole country have been approved for self defence weapons.

Just to confirm, when you say "robbery", do you mean "theft with menaces" (usually violence or the threat thereof) or just plain theft? I can't see armed robbery not being investigated.

There are lots of measures short of weapons that can be used to reduce the risk of assault and theft and I would look at them first - a chat with the local community garda or a reputable security contractor would be useful.

Finally, if you caught the robbers, what would you have done? Become a victim?

Wicklowrider

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Hope this query is not outside forum rules. If so please delete.

I am curious to know if carrying, or keeping at home or at work, a weapon such as a tazer or pepper spray is illegal. The reason I ask is my wife opened a new business in January and has been a victim of an armed robbery once (never investigated) and another robbery and 2 attempted robberies. I live 5-10 minutes drive away but have not managed to catch robbers when phoned.

For this reason I was considering getting her, and my daughters, a tazer or pepper spray.

I've no legal education at all - so my opinion isn't worth a lot.
BUT don't you mean the Tazer/Pepperspray the raider "dropped"?:)

Seriously, just be careful they don't aggravate the situation and get a hiding or worse.

harr

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Hope this query is not outside forum rules. If so please delete.

I am curious to know if carrying, or keeping at home or at work, a weapon such as a tazer or pepper spray is illegal. The reason I ask is my wife opened a new business in January and has been a victim of an armed robbery once (never investigated) and another robbery and 2 attempted robberies. I live 5-10 minutes drive away but have not managed to catch robbers when phoned.

For this reason I was considering getting her, and my daughters, a tazer or pepper spray.

they are illegal in ireland and there is no where to buy them in ireland,you can order them over internet but you might get in big trouble if caught trying to bring them into the country.many people do bring them in and are never caught.as for useing them in a shop to fend off a thief you would get done by the cops for haveing/useing them.baseball bat,golf club or hurl would be your best bet but only if used proplery and in self defence. remember if you go for somebody with a weapon they could take it from your wife and use it against her.your best bet is to stand back and give them whats in the till,just keep the cash in the till low at all times maybe under the 500 mark.i know its hard but its only cash and you can clam from you insurer.hope this helps.

Victor

harr wrote: »

just keep the cash in the till low at all times maybe under the 500 mark.

The vast majority of shops should be able to keep change to €200. There is no reason to have €50 notes in the till and they should be put in a drop safe immediately.

Builderfromhell

Victor wrote: »

Illegal. I understand less than 5 people in the whole country have been approved for self defence weapons.

Just to confirm, when you say "robbery", do you mean "theft with menaces" (usually violence or the threat thereof) or just plain theft? I can't see armed robbery not being investigated.

There are lots of measures short of weapons that can be used to reduce the risk of assault and theft and I would look at them first - a chat with the local community garda or a reputable security contractor would be useful.

Finally, if you caught the robbers, what would you have done? Become a victim?

Wife was robbed at knife point. Reported to Garda station. We told Gardai that CCTV cameras may have picked up attacker. They said we could not see CCTV for a few weeks. Got letter from Gardai with pulse number but that was the end of the matter.

Thanks for posting.

Jev/N

I wouldn't bother, you might just put yourself in more danger

ChuckNorrisgod

who are the five ?

I understand less than 5 people in the whole country have been approved for self defence weapons.

Victor wrote: »

Illegal. I understand less than 5 people in the whole country have been approved for self defence weapons.

Just to confirm, when you say "robbery", do you mean "theft with menaces" (usually violence or the threat thereof) or just plain theft? I can't see armed robbery not being investigated.

There are lots of measures short of weapons that can be used to reduce the risk of assault and theft and I would look at them first - a chat with the local community garda or a reputable security contractor would be useful.

Finally, if you caught the robbers, what would you have done? Become a victim?

Whitewater-AGS

ChuckNorrisgod wrote: »

who are the five ?

I understand less than 5 people in the whole country have been approved for self defence weapons.

If anyone knows the five people, their names have no place on a internet forum.

Hooch

Just to add that Tazer and Pepper spray come under firearms regulations in the state......so expect heavy sentences and long hours in an interview room if caught with one.....

discus

Whitewater-AGS wrote: »

If anyone knows the five people, their names have no place on a internet forum.

Well to be fair one of them was well publicised over his license to carry.

Former Chief of CAB anyone?

FruitLover

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Wife was robbed at knife point

Even aside from the legal issues, think of what practical use a tazer or pepper spray would be in this situation. Do you expect a knife-wielding, possibly drug-addicted robber to give your wife a chance to reach for and prepare either one without stabbing or slashing her?

Money can be replaced.

ScouseMouse

As a businessman, it was suggested to me, by a person in a blue shirt, that when I took up baseball, and got a bat, I was to make sure I had the ball.

I will say no more on this matter.

maidhc

Builderfromhell wrote: »

Hope this query is not outside forum rules. If so please delete.

I am curious to know if carrying, or keeping at home or at work, a weapon such as a tazer or pepper spray is illegal. The reason I ask is my wife opened a new business in January and has been a victim of an armed robbery once (never investigated) and another robbery and 2 attempted robberies. I live 5-10 minutes drive away but have not managed to catch robbers when phoned.

For this reason I was considering getting her, and my daughters, a tazer or pepper spray.

No prizes in this life for heros. Make sure you have adequate insurance and let them help themselves to the till.

Taking on an armed robber (or any robber) is foolhardy and could easily wind up with someone dead, and it is unlikely to be the robber.

sgt.bilko

superscouse wrote: »

As a businessman, it was suggested to me, by a person in a blue shirt, that when I took up baseball, and got a bat, I was to make sure I had the ball.

I will say no more on this matter.

Never in a million years would I have thought that you do business with an Everton supporter

amdublin

Builderfromhell wrote: »

The reason I ask is my wife opened a new business in January and has been a victim of an armed robbery once (never investigated) and another robbery and 2 attempted robberies.

Four robberies/attempted robberies since January

Eh I think you should be thinking about better obvious security deterrents than a can of Mace behind the counter....

Discodog

The key regarding having something for self defence is that self defence must not be it's prime purpose. So, for example, the classic fire poker which has a purpose in being by your fire. You can reasonably justify grabbing the first thing that comes to hand to ward off an attacker.

One example is the weed burners that are powered by a small gas cannister. They are excellent for weeding, lighting barbecues & household fires but they also put out a long, very hot flame which lights instantly.

Pepper spray is illegal however there is nothing to stop someone making their own chilli & pepper seasoning spray for the barbecue.

Every taxi driver bought the huge 6 D cell Maglite torches & it is perfectly legal to carry one as it is a torch.

I know a mechanic who keeps a sprayer full of solvent for engine/household cleaning. He once caught a burglar trying to steal tools. He sprayed the thief's clothes & threatened to strike a match. The thief decided to wait for the Guards to arrive.

Fortunately the law is changing. The attitude of giving in is causing more crime. In my lane, which is a cul de sac, we have instigated a simple system. As I am the first house everyone has my number on speed dial. If they get any problems I will immediately block the road with my car, to prevent a vehicle leaving & within seconds a number of male neighbours would arrive.

It is time that people stopped blaming the Guards, even though they may deserve it, & start working together to protect their communities.

ScouseMouse

Discodog wrote: »

The key regarding having something for self defence is that self defence must not be it's prime purpose. So, for example, the classic fire poker which has a purpose in being by your fire. You can reasonably justify grabbing the first thing that comes to hand to ward off an attacker.

One example is the weed burners that are powered by a small gas cannister. They are excellent for weeding, lighting barbecues & household fires but they also put out a long, very hot flame which lights instantly.

Pepper spray is illegal however there is nothing to stop someone making their own chilli & pepper seasoning spray for the barbecue.

Every taxi driver bought the huge 6 D cell Maglite torches & it is perfectly legal to carry one as it is a torch.

I know a mechanic who keeps a sprayer full of solvent for engine/household cleaning. He once caught a burglar trying to steal tools. He sprayed the thief's clothes & threatened to strike a match. The thief decided to wait for the Guards to arrive.

Fortunately the law is changing. The attitude of giving in is causing more crime. In my lane, which is a cul de sac, we have instigated a simple system. As I am the first house everyone has my number on speed dial. If they get any problems I will immediately block the road with my car, to prevent a vehicle leaving & within seconds a number of male neighbours would arrive.

It is time that people stopped blaming the Guards, even though they may deserve it, & start working together to protect their communities.

That pretty much sums it up, but then you still run the risk of being labelled a vigilante. All the same, it wouldn't stop me.

TheNewMe

This thread made me think again of Dermot Ahern's ridiculous new law that allows householders to stand and defend themselves within their property.

I think it's ridiculous for two reasons: -
1. The idea that you ever should have been legally required to turn tail and run from your own house was despicable in the first place.

2. It's completely irrelevant for the 95% of Irish people who are either old, sick, small, weak, women or any combination of the above. These people don't have the physical wherewhithal to defend themselves against a young fit (maybe drugged up) male without a weapon- ideally a firearm.

I think there's a strong case for law abiding citizens to be allowed to keep a pistol within their house for self defence. I'm sure many people will disagree and will give well thought out objections but if there was a will to safeguard and vindicate the rights of the responsible majority of citizens in this country I suspect most of these could be addressed.

Reloc8

Presuming that your typical criminal housebreaker will apply the principle of never bringing a knife to a gun fight...you can see where this is going can't you.

I'm not convinced that the solution is to increase the number of guns in circulation.

Discodog

TheNewMe wrote: »

I think there's a strong case for law abiding citizens to be allowed to keep a pistol within their house for self defence.

It is such a weak case that it will never become law. Even some US States are realising that allowing firearms is a recipe for disaster.

TheNewMe

Reloc8:
If I understand you correctly your concern is that allowing citizens to keep a gun in the house would kick off an arms race. My response would be that an arms race only happens when two or more parties want to jockey for a physical advantage over their adversaries. As I said in my earlier post for 95% of Irish people I think the bad guys already have that advantage.

It's a reasonable concern but I think it could be satisfactorily addressed through a combination of training, licensing and tagging and some seriously draconian penalties for the criminal misuse of a firearm.

Discodog:
I think you'll find the US Supreme Court disagrees with you on US gun policy.<http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_Supreme_Court_rules_DC_gun_ban_unconstitutional&gt;

Btw - good luck with getting an insurance claim paid out when a fleeing criminal crashes into your car after you have illegally blocked a public road. Hopefully you won't be in it and the other guy won't be so badly injured that you end up supporting him for the rest of his days :eek:

me_right_one

TheNewMe wrote: »

This thread made me think again of Dermot Ahern's ridiculous new law that allows householders to stand and defend themselves within their property.

I think it's ridiculous for two reasons: -
1. The idea that you ever should have been legally required to turn tail and run from your own house was despicable in the first place.

2. It's completely irrelevant for the 95% of Irish people who are either old, sick, small, weak, women or any combination of the above. These people don't have the physical wherewhithal to defend themselves against a young fit (maybe drugged up) male without a weapon- ideally a firearm.

I think there's a strong case for law abiding citizens to be allowed to keep a pistol within their house for self defence. I'm sure many people will disagree and will give well thought out objections but if there was a will to safeguard and vindicate the rights of the responsible majority of citizens in this country I suspect most of these could be addressed.

I agree that the old law was ridiculous, but I think the new one is pretty ok. Its better than nothing.

Discodog

TheNewMe wrote: »

Btw - good luck with getting an insurance claim paid out when a fleeing criminal crashes into your car after you have illegally blocked a public road. Hopefully you won't be in it and the other guy won't be so badly injured that you end up supporting him for the rest of his days :eek:

I, of course, would not of illegally blocked a road. I would be legally turning out of my drive. If the fleeing vehicle hit me then it would be due to their excessive speed & inability to stop in time. Preventing a criminal from escaping & then being free to re-offend may involve risk but I believe that it our duty to do all that we reasonably can to prevent crime.

There is an obligation on law makers to reduce crime & support the public right to lead a peaceful existence. It is very clear that the public feel that the lawmakers support the criminal & the public disquiet over this has lead the government to look into redressing the balance.

Mr. Bean.

TheNewMe wrote: »

Reloc8:
Btw - good luck with getting an insurance claim paid out when a fleeing criminal crashes into your car after you have illegally blocked a public road. Hopefully you won't be in it and the other guy won't be so badly injured that you end up supporting him for the rest of his days :eek:

I hate to bring personal issues into this but your type are the people we in this country need less of. Fair play to whoever it was with his car blocking the road plan. It is absolutely ingenious. There should be more people like him and less of you. Oh yes, there's somebody robbing my neighbour! What should i do? Should i stand there like an imbecile or do something about it. Any decent person would have insurance the last thing on their mind and justice first.

Of course safety is very important and any act involving fleeing villains should be undertaken with extreme caution. However, isn't it far safer to have the villain contained in a area than out on the main roads where the risk of a crash/endangerment is far greater. I think so.

It is deplorable that people do be thinking of themselves all the time in this country, it is the beginning of a new unfriendly culture.

I am completely against the whingers who look out for things obviously hazardous and on purpose do themselves harm so they can exaggerate an insurance claim.

It is absolutely imperative for the tradition of decency of the Irish people to survive that this nonsensical attitude about "Insurance" and greedyness and thinking about me me me me all the time is dropped.

Fair play to the other fella who Has his community action plan and for all of those fed up with the S***E and leniency that this country has put up with.

Now, that's my rant over, and I think I've said a couple of things that needed to be said.

Lab_Mouse

Discodog wrote: »

I would be legally turning out of my drive. If the fleeing vehicle hit me then it would be due to their excessive speed & inability to stop in time

I thought you had to give right of way to vehicles on the road that you are turning on to??

Discodog

My car stalled

TheNewMe

Mr. Bean,

Thanks for your insight into my "type". :cool: If you'd bothered to actually read the thread you might have gathered from my previous posts that I was unlikely to be disagreeing with Discodog's intent.

My comment to Discodog was more of an observation that his method however laudable and civic minded might end up costing him more than he intended. You or I may not like it but the law and the State generally frown on individuals taking it into their own hands to administer "justice" - after all they are the biggest gang in town and that's their job And insurance companies are another bunch of gangsters who are only too happy to deny your claim if possible.

Mr. Bean. wrote: »

I hate to bring personal issues into this but your type are the people we in this country need less of. Fair play to whoever it was with his car blocking the road plan. It is absolutely ingenious. There should be more people like him and less of you. Oh yes, there's somebody robbing my neighbour! What should i do? Should i stand there like an imbecile or do something about it.

If you do see somebody robbing your neighbour then by all means continue to stand there like an imbecile but do call the Guards as well :P

Discodog

I just bought one of these for a legitimate use:



On the Amazon reviews lots of people have bought two or three. One guy said he bought three, one for the toolbox, one under the bed & one under the car seat !

Bosco boy

Neighbourhoold watch schemes and community alert schemes are encouraged by gardai and people in estates etc should come together and set them up, they also mean you would have liasion gardai and maybe better access to and communication with the local gardai, the speed dial example is excellent but sometimes you can end up dealing with a situation that gets quickly out of control, it could result in fatalities on either side and there are sadly plenty of examples without going into details, with Garda resources decreasing rapidly they will need more and more to rely on vigilant communities that work within the law. If people take the law into their own hands and work outside it then they have become what they tried to defeat!

Discodog

All a great idea that falls down in rural Ireland because of Garda response times. People only take the law into their own hands when the law doesn't act. Anyone here who dials 999 knows that the Guards could be hours away.