Dating a Widower, with kids...

Neadine

Has anyone else been in this situation?
Met and initially it was just friends but very quickly changed into something so much more than that.
Fell head over heels in love, loved every minute of time we were spending together. He could be very impulsive about doing things and going out, and frequently I was the one who was saying "hang on a minute, what about the kids". Don't worry there was always someone taking care of them if he wasn't home.
Anyway, it's been very up and down for the past few months, we've done the 'lets be friends' thing, which hasn't been easy. Have gone out a few times and add a few drinks to the mix and there has been far more than friends stuff going on.
We are back to 'just friends', he's having problems with the kids, everyone on summer holidays, etc.They don't know their Dad has been seeing anyone. And we are arguing over the slightest of things, I know I am probably being a bit over sensitive at times but there are times that he is also being tactless.

Has anyone else done this, and actually managed to make it work??
I sometimes just feel that I don't get factored into his life, and other times he is sweet, and kind, and thoughtful and loving.

Am I flogging a dead horse here??

fungun

if i was to imagine the mother of my kids dying and moving on there would be many issues: i can imagine id be a bit hot and cold. i guess there will be times he loves to be with you but there will always have to be 'family' times too, which for now it seems you are not part of.
The other thing I would feel is that if my children have lost a mother, Id be very careful about letting another woman take this place because even in a break up scenario the kids would lose a mother again.....so id also be keeping you at arms length, at least for a couple of years probably.

Also, being with someone who has lost a partner is very difficult in many ways. Despite attempts not to, its almost impossible not to mentally compare people, even if the type of loves are different.....so when the things that really suited him about his last reln are not quite the same in this one, it does tend to be the source of arguments....even if overall you have a healthy reln.


Overall....its gonna be difficult. If you really love this man, then id give him a bit of space when he needs it and try to understand this. However you have not said anything about what he feels for you? So for the sake of you sanity i think it is reasonable to talk to him to define yourselves as 'friends' or 'more than friends' or even 'friends for now but i do feel more but cant deal with that right now', and then decide your path from there, setting the correct boundaries for yourself. Saying you are friends and then being more after a few drinks almost always leads to unhappiness.

How Strange

Op I think you have to accept that you probably won't be factored into his life for a long time because he has other more immediate priorities.

You really have to ask yourself if you can put up with this hot and cold treatment. IMO most of the usual rules and expectations are out the window when you're involved with a widow/er with kids.

They are grieving and trying to put their family life back together and I'd hazard a guess that his children wouldn't be anywhere ready to meet their dads new girlfriend and the dad does seem sensitive to that. Also you have to accept that whatever feelings he may have for you will be bittersweet and he prob feels guilt for meeting someone else.

up for anything

How long ago did his wife die and how long did it take her to die? Was it sudden or after a drawn-out illness. What ages are the children? How old were they when she died.? I would imagine these factors would have a huge bearing on the man himself, how he sees his kids reacting to a new woman and also how he sees his present support network reacting to a girlfriend. If he is reliant on his in-laws for help with his children this would have a knock on effect.

CDfm

Just a very quick thing here.

This is how I see it.If you are dating anyone it needs to be out in the open and he might be the nicest fellah ever but when you have kids you cannot live a double life.

So if he is dating you -he cannot be a carefree single bloke with you and go back and be the dad/grieving widower with the family.

To develop and grow in the relationship you need to decide whether or not his kids are an issue. Its Yin & Yang.

I am divorced with two grown ups (20 & 17) and a gorlfriend of almost two years. We now live together.

So what I am saying is the current arrangement is an over complication and you cannot compartmentise life like that. You are adults.

Some parts of this are about the family grieving and moving on. While that is not your problem -eventually they will have to -as he has.

Often, the surviving partner is criticised for moving on quickly but if there has been a long illness they have already coped with the stages of bereavement first.

Maybe he is concerned you will have a problem with the kids -so meeting the kids may benefit everone.

My 10 cents -good luck.:)

metrovelvet

Thats bull****. Everyone grieves differently, illness or not. Its anyone's guess how his kids are handling it.

How Strange

up for anything wrote: »

How long ago did his wife die and how long did it take her to die? Was it sudden or after a drawn-out illness. What ages are the children? How old were they when she died.? I would imagine these factors would have a huge bearing on the man himself, how he sees his kids reacting to a new woman and also how he sees his present support network reacting to a girlfriend. If he is reliant on his in-laws for help with his children this would have a knock on effect.

Grief is grief. There isn't a sliding scale depending on how she died. The circumstances leading up to her death don't mean a thing.

There are different stages of grief and for some people it can take years to come out the other side and feel ready to live life again.

How Strange

CDfm wrote: »

So if he is dating you -he cannot be a carefree single bloke with you and go back and be the dad/grieving widower with the family.

We don't know he's doing that. IMHO, it seems he is being a good responsible father by not introducing a new woman to his kids who are still greiving their deceased mother.

I am divorced with two grown ups (20 & 17) and a gorlfriend of almost two years. We now live together.

Good for you but your situation is not the same. Your kids still have their mother.

CDfm

Tempus fugit.

What I am saying is that lots of people are afraid to let go of the past or even the present as it is a comfort zone.

I sort of disagree with those who say the circumstances of death do not matter. A carer in a long illness will already have intellectualised the death whereas a sudden death like a car accident in a happy relationship is different.

Circumstances will have a bearing on it.

Similarily -you are not the kids mother or granny or whatever so thread carefully but thread.

metrovelvet

How do kids intellectualise their mother's death?

You cant make a statement like that about adult grief either. Secondly, an intellectualised loss is not the same as an actual one.

CDfm

Time moves on. People accept depending on their circumstances.

This is not about the kids but the OP wants to try a relationship and IMO the family circumstances and almost double life has not worked.

Daddy needs a life too and an adult relationship and a sex life.

The package that provides that is the lovely OP.

Its a bit complicated because he probably has her and his family and the kids as around ten in-laws and is nervous about introducing his new friend. So he is probably undually worried and speculating about what may happen and does not know.

My daughter was not hugely happy that I was in a new relationship but told me it was good for me and has also realised it has been good for her.

metrovelvet

You weren't in mourning and neither were your kids. Totally different.

CDfm

metrovelvet wrote: »

You weren't in mourning and neither were your kids. Totally different.

Ooops metro.

I am not speculating about the guys grief or the kids grief.

What I am saying is that now is the time for him to move on and it already feels right for him as he has met up with the OP and moved on.

I am also saying that for the OP to see a future in it -she needs to see his life and meet the other people in his life.What I am suggesting is that by being happier -he will be a better father and man and that does involve change.

It involves introducing his girlfriend and also juggling his responsibilities to her and them. She instinctively worries that he is there for his kids and that is responsible..

The OP has needs too. I think she has been considerate but if there is a future their she needs to be part of his life.

So I think she is reasonable about her expectations and what she has posted seems bang on to me. If there is a future there and she is to invest her time in the relationship -then she needs to see his life. She cannot tell if thats the lifestyle she wants until she sees it.

Nothing she has posted is unreasonable to me. If it is I cant see it.

Nevyn

Neadine wrote: »

Has anyone else done this, and actually managed to make it work??
I sometimes just feel that I don't get factored into his life, and other times he is sweet, and kind, and thoughtful and loving.

Well you are in his life just not in his family life.
Do you want to be?
Does he want you to be?

Or is he happy enough to see you and date you and keep that totally separate from his life with his kids? To have a break from them and to enjoy your company so that he's not replacing his wife or having mixed feelings.

Things could stay that way for a while with you having to know the kids come first and nearly being his mistress despite the fact he is no longer married.

Such relationships can work out but it can be a rocky road and the kids will come first, so you need to think about what you want in your relationship and for your future and find out what he wants and if it's not compatible see if a compromise can be reached.

Neadine

Ok, thank you all for your input.
Firstly, his wife was ill for long time before she died, several years. And from talking to him I do think that because it was a long illness, and they both knew the inevitable, he had dealt with some of his emotions about the whole situation before she died. They were both very proactive where the children were concerned and the fact that they were not going to have a Mum around. The kids are from teens down. I think that all of the kids are dealing with their loss very well, obviously there has been lots of occasions that have been very emotional for all, but even though their mum isn’t there anymore she is still very much in their lives and is talked about all the time.
His feelings for me... he has told that he loves me, lots of times, and I don't doubt that he does, but I know and accept that the most important people in his life are his kids and I come someplace after them.
I agree that his kids do not need to be introduced to, or even be aware of, everyone that he may at some point go for dinner with. We have talked about this, they only need to be told when we have decided that it is going someplace, or if it is something that is being discussed by the local gossip circles, and then I think it is important that they hear it from their Dad and not in the school play ground, or elsewhere.
At one point he did think that it would maybe make things easier for us if the kids knew but I disagreed, maybe it was just me being selfish, but I think if they knew and didn't like the idea they could manipulate the situation where we had little or no time together. The 2 smallies crave his attention, which is only to be expected and I don't know how they would deal with the idea of someone else vying for his attention too.
I have no desire to replace their Mum, they are some big shoes that even if I wanted to I couldn’t attempt to fill. As far as I am concerned, you only get one Mum in this life, they are not a replaceable commodity.
I know that I have been good for him on a lot of levels. He was being treated differently by a lot of people, even his friends and finding the whole situation very difficult. He was no longer him but was now a ‘widower’ and found that very difficult to deal with. With me, he had some level of normality where he was himself again, and could have fun and relax and usually it came without the responsibility of having to look after little people. I know that there was frequently a lot of guilt involved, because he wasn’t with the kids, and because he was enjoying himself.
Someone mentioned about being compared. I’ve had that, not blatantly and I’m sure it wasn’t intentional, but that was so difficult for me. I did bring it up with him once, and was sorry I did, he didn’t realise he had even done it. He talks very openly about her, which I think is very healthy and very important for the kids and I don’t want him to feel that he can’t or shouldn’t do that around me. But being compared… that’s not so easy to deal with. I know that he thinks she and I have similar traits but I also know we are very different characters.
I love him to bits, but if I had a crystal ball and was able to see down the line… well wouldn’t that make life so much easier?! We are trying to do the ‘friends’ thing, he feels that he can’t deal with a relationship and the commitment right now because he needs to be there for the kids, difficult teens are hitting with a bang. I am trying to be his friend, but it’s difficult when, in an ideal world, I would like so much more. Part of me things I should just stop and walk away, we talk several times every day and even losing that contact would be difficult to deal with. And another part of me is saying no, stay, be his friend, you know he cares about you and you work well together but…
I’ve got a headache now just thinking about it all!!!!

Nevyn

Yes you will never replace thier mother but that doesnt' mean you can't be a adult in thier life who is there for them, cares for them and plays a part in thier life.

That is if you wanted to be that and be part of a family with him and his children.
I would sugget you do some reading on step famlies and blended families.

Cos if you are planning on waiting around for the kids to be grown up and no longer needing him, well there isn't a limit on that, and the youngest could still be living at home and in college in thier 20s.

Fittle

OP, I think you were on boards with this before, were you? I remember reading something similar a while back - though maybe it wasn't you.

You say you are doing the 'friends' thing.

You are obviously doing the friends thing with the hope that it will become something more, in the future perhaps when the teens thing is out of the way, or perhaps when the younger ones have grown a bit.

He, I think, is doing the friends thing because he genuinely needs a friend and you are there for him.

I dunno OP, while I can see that you are mad about him, I really think you have to think about yourself here. What if you are 'friends' for the next 5yrs - and you give him your all. You don't date other men, you are there for him 100%. But after five years, he still sees you as a friend?? What if your friendship has meant everything to him, in a time when he needed it most, when his kids were young and when the teens were being difficult. What if you made him strong enough to meet someone else, romantically, in five years?

I know that none of us can predict the future, but if it was me, I would gradually make the break from him OP. You are there for him. But who is there for you? I think you should make a gradual break, and if he wants you in his life, the way you want to be in his life, and the way you deserve to be in his life by the way, he'll be back.
And if he doesn't, well relationships aren't supposed to be this difficult and perhaps it's just not meant to be.
Best of luck OP, whatever you decide - it's a tough one.

Neadine

Hi Fittle,
Nope, wasn't my posting previously, but I'm sure I am not in a unique sitution.
I agree with what you are saying, and have told myself that is probably the best way to go, pull away and start to focus on me. But that is so much easier said than done.
He has been a huge part of my life for quite awhile now and I really don't want that to change, but right now I'm not sure I am getting what I want out of it.
I know, for my own sanity(!), I need to start focusing more on my needs. And you're right I don't want to do the waiting for Xyrs just for him to decide that he does want to do the relationship thing, but not with me.

Fittle

That would be MY biggest fear Neadine, that I would give him strength and courage and help him 'get-on' with his life. Only for him to eventually get on with it, with someone else, while I eventually faded into the background.

Look, I don't know. I've never been in a relationship with a widower - I've experienced death of both my parents in my life, so I do know the affect of the death of someone you love, but I guess that's even different to the death of your partner who is the other parent of your children. So while I know what grief is, I'm not sure it's comparable.

Have you been through the death of a close friend/family member yourself? Do you remember how that feels? I'm not saying it's the same as what he's feeling - but if you experience grief, you can definitely empathise that bit more with other people who have. And I say that from experience.

It's easy for me to say move away gradually. Perhaps he's giving you something you need in your own life at this moment in time?

There are women out there who settle for nothing else other than the best from their menfolk - they expect the best treatment from them, and they get the best. Sometimes, when you think this is what you deserve in life, to accept that you are second, or even third best, in someones life, this is what you get.

I genuinely don't mean to sound harsh OP. I speak from experience on that one too - when you realise that you deserve the best from a relationship (as we all do), that's when you get it. I'm a 'work in progress', and gradually realising that I deserve the best from a relationship, so I'm just talking from my own perspective here.
He sounds like a lovely guy btw - and he's been through a lot. I don't envy your situation one bit;)

Neadine

I know what you are saying, Fittle, and have been very conscious about all of that. And yes, there is a fear factor there. But I also think there is only so much pressure that I can put on him, yes, I would love to have more time with him and to be able to do more with him, but if me getting that time with him ment that his kids were missing out on having thier Dad there, then is that a man that I actually want to be with??
He is a great guy, and I love him so much, probably far more than he realises, and it's not because I haven't told him.
Right now, there is constant bickering going on with us, and I know I am mostly responsible for that, and even had a light bulb moment and realised why I was doing that.
God, why can't these things be easier?!

Fittle

A friend of mine died recently neadline.

She battled with her weight most of her life. Close to the end, she said to me 'Can't believe I'm a size 12!!!!'. It was a short battle from diagnosis to the end.

It was a wake up call for me. And I have many regrets. People say life is short. You can spend it wondering if things might work out if you stay around another few years. Or you can bring your 'argument' to the fore, and discover if that other person actually wants the same as you want. And then you can make your decision, and decide to stay, or move on.

Like I said..I don't know because I haven't been in a relationship with a widower with young children. And I'm sure a relationship with older children, or not children, would be different. Life can be hard sometimes, but only if that's what you choose.

CDfm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Yes you will never replace thier mother but that doesnt' mean you can't be a adult in thier life who is there for them, cares for them and plays a part in thier life.

That is if you wanted to be that and be part of a family with him and his children.
I would sugget you do some reading on step famlies and blended families.

Cos if you are planning on waiting around for the kids to be grown up and no longer needing him, well there isn't a limit on that, and the youngest could still be living at home and in college in thier 20s.

+1 -all relationships have aspirations and I reckon you should trust your instincts.

If they are that you need a bit more out of it and a closer relationship -then thats your needs.

Eve_Dublin

Hi OP. Just to give you the perspective of someone whose dad remarried when they were young. My mother died suddenly when I was 10 years old and my father started to date again about a year after her death and he was encouraged by my older sister who saw how desperately lonely and miserable he was. I know now he´d went on dates with a few women but my step mother was the first one we met. He met my step mother when I was 11 and I met her when I was 12 and I felt it was too soon. I was still grieving over my mother and I resented another women taking her place. To be honest, a lot of what happened back then is a little foggy but just to tell you the outcome. Before they got married, she took me aside and told me she´d never be a replacement for my mother but she would be a good friend to me and be there for me when I needed her. I accepted this the best I could (I was an awkward 13 year old at that stage) but I was still miserable. I cringe when I see photos of me on their wedding day with my grumpy face and tears because in hindsight, even though it was tough for me having another woman move in and take the place of my mam, I got used to it. She made my dad happy again.

She is one of the most wonderful women I know and I have so much respect for her and what she took on because she loved my dad (5 children in my family). They´re still very happy together and they´d be lost without each other.

I´ll be honest though....my dad, like your OH lacks tact sometimes. He still compares her to my mother and calls her by my mother´s name by accident. I guess you have to be prepared for that. My step mother takes it on the chin generally but there was a period when it was getting a little too frequent, she was upset and we had to take him aside and talk to him. We still bring up my mother in conversation on occasion but I´m very concious that it might make her uncomfortable, so we keep that to a minimum (which is a problem in itself actually....conversation about my mother pretty much ceased when she moved in to the house...don´t know if that was a good or bad thing). She was my mother and even though she´s dead, nothing can change that.

My step mother is a strong woman. She had to be to deal with all she dealt with (there´s a "black sheep" among us) but she loved my dad like you love your OH and she knew it was never going to be smooth sailing but to her it was worth it.

In all, I love my step-mother so much. I honestly don´t know what we would have done without her. We don´t have a mother-daughter relationship but were good friends and that´s enough for me. Sometimes I wanted more from her but in the last few years, I´ve stopped expecting that....she´s done enough for me just by being a friend. She´s a loving person and she´s grown to love us all in time.


This can work out and if your OH is concerned about the children, then he needs to get over that. Kids are resilient and they´ll get used to the idea in time if he´s tactful. I´m not traumatised by my dad remarrying...very soon after the wedding I realised it was for the best and I was happy. In hindsight it was the best thing he could´ve done for us all.

You sound like a lovely woman OH. You don´t sound like some woman who doesn´t give a damn. Honestly, there´s shades of the strength and love my step-mother possess in you....I just hope this man realises that and doesn´t blow it. It CAN work out if he lets it.

Fittle

That is one of the most positive, and moving posts, I have ever read on boards. And I've read alot of threads. Your stepmother sounds like a wonderful person Eve, and you in turn, sound like a wonderful stepdaughter.:)

Eve_Dublin

Fittle wrote: »

That is one of the most positive, and moving posts, I have ever read on boards. And I've read alot of threads. Your stepmother sounds like a wonderful person Eve, and you in turn, sound like a wonderful stepdaughter.:)

Thanks a million Fittle It was from the heart. Ah my step-mother really is The Business and I don´t tell her enough actually. There were difficult times in my teens when I used the "You´re not my mother!! You can´t tell me what to do!" card (be prepared for that OP!) but we laugh about the melodrama of it now. I´m actually going to write her an email telling her everything I´ve said here. I don´t do that enough. Good luck again OP.

CDfm

Eve great posting and I always find your posts so positive.

up for anything

How Strange wrote: »

Grief is grief. There isn't a sliding scale depending on how she died. The circumstances leading up to her death don't mean a thing.

There are different stages of grief and for some people it can take years to come out the other side and feel ready to live life again.

It wasn't my intention to suggest that there is a a sliding scale of grief. Merely to suggest that these are factors to take into account which to judge from her subsequent post she has.

Neadine

Eve, I just read your post and I'm in tears.
I still have my mum and can't imagine what life would be without her. We had our moments as I was growing up, maybe too many when I was a rebelious teen, but in recent years we have become close. When I think about his girls, especially, having that taken away from them my heart breaks for them.
Had someone told me a year ago I would be in this sort of situation I would have laughed and thought no way. But I met him and fell in love and realise that there is other people to take into account where everything is concerned. I love him and his kids and life experiences have been part of moulding him into the person he is.
I know that being involved with him will ultimately include being involved with his family. I know a lot about all of them, what kind of characters they are, what is going on in their lives and all the dramas. But to be honest the prospect of actually being involved in their lives terrifies me. And maybe if the time was right that fear wouldn't be so overpowering.
Right now, I just want to work things out with him. I know we need to sit down in a situation where I do the talking about what it is that I want, or at least would like. He has told me what he thinks I want, which actually made me really think about things properly.
Eve, what you said was moving, emotional and heartfelt and meant so much, thank you. Do email your step mum, I'm sure she will really appreciate it.

banie01

I just thought I'd give a widowers perspective on this thread.
The decision to start seeing someone after losing the person you thought you'd spend your life with is a guilt trap.
On one hand you feel guilty and as if you have cheated on your partner just by the act of simply enjoying yourself/smiling in someone new's company.
This has a lot to do with the blowing hot and cold(In my own experience at least)
While the time with someone new can be great craic and feel so right and perfect at the time ye're together......
Its when he's(Me) is alone at home after the kids are in bed that a wave of guilt can hit!
How can I(He) be having a good time without his wife?
How can I(he) have been any way intimate with someone who isn't her?
I have honestly cried myself to sleep some nights due to feeling as if I have cheated after being on a date and from talking to other men in the same position it is quite common.
When ye're together and in the moment everything is great and when left to his(My) own devices..... The guilt and fear raises its head!
The fear of a'new' relationship kicks in...
And its not a fear of commitment,
Its fear of being too soon for the kids....
People say kids are resilient and they are, but the thought strikes after a date how does meeting someone new reflect on your love for their Mam?
If you introduce a new woman to their life?
You know the lady will never be a replacement for their Mam, But will they? Will introducing someone new have a detrimental effect?(Now I know that isn't a healthy attitude or indeed opinion I share! I don't but at the start of a relationship these are thoughts that fly through ones mind)

Fear of comparison...
Because even if you can avoid it...Everyone around you will compare new to old...
And if you love someone enough to feel that they are someone you can move forward and build a relationship with....
Then surely you love them enough to never let them be second best.....
How do you cope with that?
In my own case I'm 3 and ahlf years down the road since the death of my wife and I still have many of the above the thoughts even without having a lady friend to fill the other half of the equation.
I know I've rambled a bit but I hope this post can give you some insight as from being to support groups and so on.....The above feelings are the norm for us widowers.

Neadine

Hi banie,
I do understand that he does and has felt guilty. Guilty about not being with the kids and guilty about enjoying himself and being happy, and possibly even guilty about being with someone other than his wife. The guilt thing is something that he has talked to me about, and there have been times when he hasn't talked to me about things because he feels it's not fair to be telling me some of that stuff, and I do understand and appreciate that too.
I don't want to a be a replacement anything in his life; not a replacement wife or a replacement mother to his children. But I do very much want to be part of his life.
You said "And if you love someone enough to feel that they are someone you can move forward and build a relationship with....
Then surely you love them enough to never let them be second best....."
I don't see it as me being second best. Yes, I realise if his wife was still alive this is a situation that I wouldn't be in, but she's not. I know that he loved her very much and always will, but I don't think that means that you can never love someone else.
When I was talking to a friend about the whole thing, just looking for her to be my friend and supportive, she told me that he could never love me as much as he had loved her, and even if it did work out with him and me and we went on to get married and have kids together they would never be as important to him as the kids he has with his wife. I was so hurt and upset by what she said. She doesn't know him and has no experience of this type of situation herself.
The comparison thing I have accepted is something that is likely to happen, and other people doing it would probably we easier to cope with than when he does it, and I know it's not done intentionally or with any hurt intended and I've become a little bit better at just taking it on the chin.
I can't see what's going on inside his head, but we have talked about everything. Being able to talk has never been a problem for either of us!
I just can't help but think that if he wasn't ready to move on, and that's not intended to sound cold or callus, I know his wife will always be part of his life, that it wouldn't have happened, or at least wouldn't have continued for almost a year. Or am I totally wrong on that.
I know this is a really ramble, sorry.

banie01

!

Neadine wrote: »

I just can't help but think that if he wasn't ready to move on, and that's not intended to sound cold or callus, I know his wife will always be part of his life, that it wouldn't have happened, or at least wouldn't have continued for almost a year. Or am I totally wrong on that.
I know this is a really ramble, sorry.

Neadine, I'm just going to give my take on the above part of your post from my point of view.
Yes. you could be totally wrong or whats more appropriate, expecting more than he can give you right now.
If he really was ready to move on, there would be no issue at all with him blowing hot and cold.(Apart from usual male moodiness)
There would at least be introductions to the kids as a significant someone.
And while its an absolute given that his wife will always be part of his life.....If he was ready to move on however he would appreciate how understanding you are in that regard and at least make some sort of gesture of appreciation to you in recognition of your fledgling commitment to building a relationship with him.
How long has it been since his wife passed? I know everyone is different but in my case its 3 and a half years and I still can't contemplated being in a relationship and sharing that with my family and friends!(in saying that I did have a short term relationship that was great on many levels emotional, connected conversation and friendship aswell as physical. but I wanted it to be ours, I wasn't ready to introduce her to anyone as my GF or to have her meet my son in that capacity.....which is why it fell apart for me! as she quite rightly put it"she wasn't with me to be an ego boost or a secret")
Has he been in anything approaching a relationship with anyone apart from yourself since she died?
People talk about the rebound after a break up, after a bereavement it is much more of a bounce for the next on the scene.

metrovelvet

The thing is even if he loves you and wants to be with you, if he's still feeling guilty then you are in dangerous waters. As we all know guilt can make you do crazy things, it can even mobilize you into destroying your own happiness because deep down you've convinced yourself you dont deserve them. So, that's the first thing i'd worry about.

The second is this. When someone close to you dies, the relationship with the deceased doesn't go with them. It's very much alive. I still love my father and he's dead thirteen years. I cant even begin to fathom what its like with a spouse who's gone and on top of it seeing them in your kids every day.

Grief is madness. This must be very overwhelming for him.

Third thing. The kids. As a step mother you become one of the most important figures in the kids lives. And with a dead mother, even more so. Ontop of that, the threat if abandonment is twofold. One because they might fear they will lose their father to you, or once they bond with you, they might lose you, since the guarantee of a blood bond isn't there.

You are beginning a relationship on the foundations of loss. Now, all step mothers do, but a maternal death, a spousal death, makes it a whole lot more monumental.

Im sorry if this discourages you but there is a lot of people's lives at work here.

He may just not be ready.

CDfm

I dont think you should be getting into deep waters with comparisons etc.

If you were 18 and dating you would probably be saying things like he makes me laugh or we like the same music and not mortgages or that he is gorgeous.

So as Thaed mentioned above maybe a little light reading on blended or step families is a good suggestion- to see if that is what you want.

Neadine

Hi metrovelvet,
I am very much aware of all that you are saying about his wife still very much being apart of his life and always will be. And I do think that talking about her and keeping memories alive is vitally important for his kids. And I am also aware of the concerns about the introducing someone new to the kids and then the possibility or loss / abandonment again, and that is why, from the very beginning I have made it clear to him that I felt that they didn't need to know that their Dad was seeing someone until we were sure about where it was going. I don't want to be introduced to them and then things don't work out with their Dad and me, and that's just as much for my emotional well being as theirs.
As for the guilt issue, I know that has lessened over the past few months, yes he does at times fell bad about being away from the kids at times, but does realise that he needs that time away for himself. The guilt about being with someone else, and having fun is far less. The importance of him getting on with his life was something that he and his wife talked about before he died, and I don't know, but maybe on some level that makes him feel like she would be ok with it all, I don't know.
I never thought it was going to be easy and plain sailing getting involved with a man who is a widower with kids, but then very few relationships are plain sailing. Maybe knowing him pretty well before any romantic involvement made things easier, who knows.
As for all of the lives involved, I am only too aware. And think I having been doing as much as I can to make sure that all of those lives are taken into account and consideration. You have kind of made it seem like I am only taking my feelings and emotions into account here.

CDfm

Neadine wrote: »

And think I having been doing as much as I can to make sure that all of those lives are taken into account and consideration. You have kind of made it seem like I am only taking my feelings and emotions into account here.

You have no reason to feel guilty.

The lady is dead and she or he didnt want that and she probably would have wished for him to find someone else.

It is a big commitment and yes you should be a bit selfish because you only have one life and you need to comsider your happiness too.

Neadine

CDfm wrote: »

You have no reason to feel guilty.

The lady is dead and she or he didnt want that and she probably would have wished for him to find someone else.

It is a big commitment and yes you should be a bit selfish because you only have one life and you need to comsider your happiness too.

I don't feel guilty about meeting someone who I think is a fantastic person, and falling in love with him. Yes, in an ideal world, it would be so much easier if the situation was a less complicated one, and there wasn't so many other people to take into account. But you don't get to pick who you are going to fall for.
As for being selfish where my happiness is concerned, you're right, but right now he makes me incredibly happy, even with all the complications and drama!!!

CDfm

What I find great about your posts is how positive you are and it is an incredibly nice feeling to feel loved as it is to love someone.

There is a lot of other stuff - like ironing which can be crap but you get your ice cream days too -if you get my drift.

Neadine

CDfm wrote: »

What I find great about your posts is how positive you are and it is an incredibly nice feeling to feel loved as it is to love someone.

There is a lot of other stuff - like ironing which can be crap but you get your ice cream days too -if you get my drift.

Ahhhhh, was this for me???!!! I'm a little tired so levels of function aren't great right now!

CDfm

Neadine wrote: »

Ahhhhh, was this for me???!!! I'm a little tired so levels of function aren't great right now!

Yup.

My suggestion is dont try to over complicate things by speculating too much about what the kids may or may not think or feelmfor now but to run with your instincts.

It seems to me that you have got a fairly good idea about what your feelings for the guy are and what you would like to happen.

So the next thing is making moves to see whether he is on the same wavelenght.

Thats not saying the kids are unimportant but your future and your happiness is important too.

Neadine

CDfm wrote: »

Yup.

My suggestion is dont try to over complicate things by speculating too much about what the kids may or may not think or feelmfor now but to run with your instincts.

It seems to me that you have got a fairly good idea about what your feelings for the guy are and what you would like to happen.

So the next thing is making moves to see whether he is on the same wavelenght.

Thats not saying the kids are unimportant but your future and your happiness is important too.

Thanks.
As for being positive... the only thing that I am positive about are my feelings, everything else... who knows!
But you're right, I think I am over analysing and trying to speculate things that are not in my control.

Neadine

Thanks for all the comments, it's been appreciated and thought provoking!
Guess just going to have to wait and see ...

Neadine

Well, banie, I think you may have been right about the rebound, not rebound sort of thing.
I'm sure when he said that he loved me he thought he did at that given time.
I have pulled back from the situation, I have spent about 10 days trying to have a proper conversation with him about stuff and he has been in avoidance mode, so I stopped everything, and to be perfectly honest I don't think he has even noticed. Not good for a girls ego!
I feel like I was his emotional crutch while he was going through a very difficult time in his life, and now that he is in some ways dealing with that situation I have become surplus to requirements, so maybe have become associated with that bad time. I am only too aware that I allowed myself to take on that role, but I still can't help but feel just a little bit used.
Of course I am happy for him that he is in a better place but I can't help but feel that I have been left behind and forgotten about.
Not so positive this time CDfm!!!

CDfm

Neadine wrote: »

Not so positive this time CDfm!!!

The outcome may not be what you like but 10 days is a short time IMO.

Maybe he will see things your way but you must trust your instincts on this and they seem to have been fairly bang on so far.:)

Try not to get to deep on analysis as relationships have phases too and boundaries. If you feel you have been used -then maybe you have -do not make excuses. Trust is zero or 100%.

I think that as you have changed tack he is trying to comprehend things and may be at sea on how to react but for you it is a bit to do with integrity and where you want to be and if it is not going there -well you need to reassess.

banie01

Neadine wrote: »

Well, banie, I think you may have been right about the rebound, not rebound sort of thing.
I'm sure when he said that he loved me he thought he did at that given time.
I have pulled back from the situation, I have spent about 10 days trying to have a proper conversation with him about stuff and he has been in avoidance mode, so I stopped everything, and to be perfectly honest I don't think he has even noticed. Not good for a girls ego!
I feel like I was his emotional crutch while he was going through a very difficult time in his life, and now that he is in some ways dealing with that situation I have become surplus to requirements, so maybe have become associated with that bad time. I am only too aware that I allowed myself to take on that role, but I still can't help but feel just a little bit used.
Of course I am happy for him that he is in a better place but I can't help but feel that I have been left behind and forgotten about.
Not so positive this time CDfm!!!

10 days is a short time Neadine..... Hopefully it will work out the way you want!
I'm sorry you feel used and I know this isn't going to help your ego considering how much care and emotion you have invested in trying to move the relationship forward.
You have done everything you can to move forward and discuss things with him......

But I'll let you in a little secret about us men(Well I can't speak for all Men, but its a very common theme in many I've spoken too after their losses.)
We are great at being rational and dissecting emotions down to rational/logical reactions(Or to be honest...we at like to think we are) and interactions especially when dealing with other peoples emotions.
However when it comes to ourselves we delude ourselves that we can do the same(And that it actually works.)
We can convince ourselves that we have dug out the root of our problem and can deal with it.
We can talk about it and pay it some kind of lipservice
But truth be told its another defense mechanism where we convince ourselves that the grief is understood and dealt with and once thats done we proceed to ignore it by burying our head in the sands acting as if everything is normal until something forces one to confront the issue all over again then we realise that apart from learning to avoid anything that triggers the grief.....
We've actually done sweet f**k all to deal with the problem.
I can tell you from personal experience that when you meet someone that you feel is leading to a new relationship, rather than just casual and you start making plans.......its like having a reset button pushed on your grief, and until he can get past that issue(Counselling, support group) the lady that he's with will be bounced around much as you are being.
I've hurt someone I cared deeply for the same way and many men I know have done the same.....It seems to be almost a pattern amongst the men I know in this situation.

I hope the above can be some comfort or help to you, its not a professional opinion by any means. But like I said as a young widower myself and from the experiences of many I know in the same situation its an all to common situation for the Lady who cares enough to try!

Neadine

Ok, maybe you are both right about being overly hasty, CDfm and banie. Patience is a virtue and all that. I don't do very well with the no communication thing and my mind then goes into over drive.
I guess at the moment I'm having internal head and heart debates and have become a bit of an emotional basket case!
And yeah, banie, he has done the getting close and then pushing me away thing, and that's really difficult to deal with.
Going to sit back, calmly, and wait and see, but just for a little while.

SallySweet

Neadine wrote: »

Ok, maybe you are both right about being overly hasty, CDfm and banie. Patience is a virtue and all that. I don't do very well with the no communication thing and my mind then goes into over drive.
I guess at the moment I'm having internal head and heart debates and have become a bit of an emotional basket case!
And yeah, banie, he has done the getting close and then pushing me away thing, and that's really difficult to deal with.
Going to sit back, calmly, and wait and see, but just for a little while.

A friend of mine wasted 5 years of her life on the same kind of scenario.. They even got engaged and he would not set a date... He is older and has grown up kids but still could not get his act together. She was with him from 39 to 44 and she chose at the start, kowing he was not in a position to have more kids, to stick with him and forfeit the kids option for him. He has let her down badly...

All I am saying is give yourself a timescale to let him get his head straight. Does he want marriage and more kids? Do you?

CDfm

SallySweet wrote: »

A friend of mine wasted 5 years of her life on the same kind of scenario.. They even got engaged and he would not set a date... He is older and has grown up kids but still could not get his act together. She was with him from 39 to 44 and she chose at the start, kowing he was not in a position to have more kids, to stick with him and forfeit the kids option for him. He has let her down badly...

All I am saying is give yourself a timescale to let him get his head straight. Does he want marriage and more kids? Do you?

There is a due dilligence check list that I have posted from Mary Cleary's Book That Bitch - dont be put off by the title it is for people to analyse what they want and are getting out of a relationship and planning for the future.

http://www.thatbitchbook.com/due_diligence_download.html

Neadine

CDfm wrote: »

There is a due dilligence check list that I have posted from Mary Cleary's Book That Bitch - dont be put off by the title it is for people to analyse what they want and are getting out of a relationship and planning for the future.

http://www.thatbitchbook.com/due_diligence_download.html

Thanks for that CDfm, but what Sally said happened her friend, that too has crossed my mind.
Why can't these things be easier; boy meets girl, boy likes girl, girl likes boy..... Simple!

CDfm

Neadine wrote: »

Thanks for that CDfm, but what Sally said happened her friend, that too has crossed my mind.
Why can't these things be easier; boy meets girl, boy likes girl, girl likes boy..... Simple!

A black american friend of mine has a great definition of love which is putting the other person first & that does not mean being a patsy.

Real love songs should be about cleaning up each others vomit.

The checklist is about working out if you want the same things from life . Where you might benefit from is working out the dual priorities you both have and I am not saying you are immature but he is at a different stage in life where situations dictate that he is prudent. My sister married a divorced dad with kids and they are the best couple I know.

And it is simple- except in an " are we there yet way".

Neadine

CDfm wrote: »

A black american friend of mine has a great definition of love which is putting the other person first & that does not mean being a patsy.

Real love songs should be about cleaning up each others vomit.

The checklist is about working out if you want the same things from life . Where you might benefit from is working out the dual priorities you both have and I am not saying you are immature but he is at a different stage in life where situations dictate that he is prudent. My sister married a divorced dad with kids and they are the best couple I know.

And it is simple- except in an " are we there yet way".

I know we are in very different places, with very different responsibilities. I have spent months rescheduling and rearranging things to get to spend time with him when he was free, because I felt it was easier for me to do that stuff. I didn't have kids and their social lives to work around
How long do you fight for someone before you know it's time to give up?

Whynotme

Hi Neadine,

I am just out of a 5 yr relationship where like you I did everything to make it work. In our case he was already separated and fighting for his kids when I met him. Then at xmas his ex died, I got advice here. Anyway, having supported him through his separation (met him 3 months after he left family home), helped him to get custody of his children (due to mothers problems), been there for him over the past yrs, babysitting, sounding board, support, lover, best friend etc, I felt that I didn't belong any more. I was pushed aside, excluded in decisions to do with us. Plans cancelled or changed at last minute. THis wasn't new but grew more frequent and I had to walk. I met with him and told him why, he agreed with ALL that I said. But........he told me he wouldn't change, didn't want to change. That his children were his life and there was no room for anyone else. After 5 yrs.

Please look at your relationship and ask yourself do you want to wait? To be on standby for the foreseeable future? My ex actually thought I would do that! I don't doubt he loves/d me, but I need more than he could offer, scraps of time here and there. If you don't want to be still waiting in 4/5 yrs, move on with your life. If he values you he will come looking for you. I wish you luck.
x