Refret job in galway, Some guy ruined my guitar.

gazami

I did refret-work on my fender stratocaster a week ago from some repair guy
in galway. I don't want to talk about his name but there was a recommendation
for him in this forum and a bad remark on him also.

Anyway being a foreigner getting refret-work was not easy it's very dangerous.
If something happened I can do nothing about it. So at first I tried to get
some fret-dressing job. But this guy insisted to get refret. At first I couldn't
trust this guy coz the amount of money was changing when he's talking
about the job. Anyway he required 200euro and I thought it's not a bad deal.

And after a week when I saw my guitar this is a bad joke. There were several
burn mark on the fret-board and frets were not dressed at all so it's buzzy.
And the size of the fret was smaller than former one so there's gap between
fret-board and fret and nut is a lot higher than frets. New scar on body. Some
glue thing to hide brocken finish on my maple fret-board, Crooked neck...

This guy said that he feels bad about my guitar. And he gave me 50euro
discount for what he did. It sounds like after killing somebody you say
"Sorry for your loss".

I think there're several possibilities.

1. This guy knows nothing about guitar.
- But there's a recommendation in this forum. Maybe it's from the guy himself?

2. Or this guy didn't do the job by himself, Gave it to some newbie as a training
material.
- Risking a nice, expensive guitar as a training material?

3. Did it intentionally.
- I've never met this guy before why did he do that to me?

This guy is crazy. He shouldn't take the job in the first place. My guitar is one
of american vintage serise. It means as a used one it still more than 1,000euro.
The guy ruined 1,000euro guitar for making small money.

I still don't understand what happened to me. And very sad.

I posted this writing to leave a warning for the other possible victims. Be cautious
when you get refret in galway at least you need to ask the other people
before you try any repair shop.

When I search some info about repair shop the first guy I found was actually
Derek Nelson but I live in galway so it was not an option. Now I'm thinking
of visiting him in near future. Do any of you know how to contact him? And
where's Malray Park? Is it around city center? Is it easy to find?

Thanks.

Mataguri

That really sucks dude. I had a similar experience with a Dublin repair guy who refinished my Gibson SG, the guy basically destroyed it. I have it in my attic so I can post pictures of it later if anyone wants

As for Derek Nelson, I can personally vouch for how amazing he is, I've had some work done by him in the past and its all been top notch. His contact number is 01 4942741. Marlay Park isn't in the city center but its close enough and easy to get too. The only negative things about Derek is because he's the only proper repair guy in Dublin (imo) his waiting list is quite long and he's quite pricey, it's worth it though.

eoin5

gazami wrote: »

I did refret-work on my fender stratocaster a week ago from some repair guy
in galway. I don't want to talk about his name but there was a recommendation
for him in this forum and a bad remark on him also.

Anyway being a foreigner getting refret-work was not easy it's very dangerous.
If something happened I can do nothing about it. So at first I tried to get
some fret-dressing job. But this guy insisted to get refret. At first I couldn't
trust this guy coz the amount of money was changing when he's talking
about the job. Anyway he required 200euro and I thought it's not a bad deal.

And after a week when I saw my guitar this is a bad joke. There were several
burn mark on the fret-board and frets were not dressed at all so it's buzzy.
And the size of the fret was smaller than former one so there's gap between
fret-board and fret and nut is a lot higher than frets. New scar on body. Some
glue thing to hide brocken finish on my maple fret-board, Crooked neck...

This guy said that he feels bad about my guitar. And he gave me 50euro
discount for what he did. It sounds like after killing somebody you say
"Sorry for your loss".

I think there're several possibilities.

1. This guy knows nothing about guitar.
- But there's a recommendation in this forum. Maybe it's from the guy himself?

2. Or this guy didn't do the job by himself, Gave it to some newbie as a training
material.
- Risking a nice, expensive guitar as a training material?

3. Did it intentionally.
- I've never met this guy before why did he do that to me?

This guy is crazy. He shouldn't take the job in the first place. My guitar is one
of american vintage serise. It means as a used one it still more than 1,000euro.
The guy ruined 1,000euro guitar for making small money.

I still don't understand what happened to me. And very sad.

I posted this writing to leave a warning for the other possible victims. Be cautious
when you get refret in galway at least you need to ask the other people
before you try any repair shop.

When I search some info about repair shop the first guy I found was actually
Derek Nelson but I live in galway so it was not an option. Now I'm thinking
of visiting him in near future. Do any of you know how to contact him? And
where's Malray Park? Is it around city center? Is it easy to find?

Thanks.

I hate to hear this, he mustve tried to melt the glue with the soldering iron but instead he ended up burning the guitar instead. That would drive me mental.

artvandulet

He gave you a €50 discount for ruining your guitar??
You paid €150 to have your guitar wrecked??
Why did you hand over ANY money??

You need to get your money back at the very least.

If I was in your position I would be getting on the The National Consumer agency and looking for some kind of compensation here. Its utterly ridiculous that this goes on, but almost worse that you let him get away with it.

gazami

Being a foreigner to this country it's not easy having some issue with local.
And I don't know any proper steps to deal with this kind of problem in this
country and I don't know how effective it would be.

Maybe the repair guy exploited my weakness. And if I make some argument
who knows what would happen? This repair guy dosen't have concience in
the first place. Do you think this guy really sorry about what happened?
I don't think so. And I don't think this is his first case.

The only thing I can do is giving some warning message to the other
people and about my guitar I'm thinking of sending it to some repair guy
in my country I can trust.

Thanks.

Rigsby

Sorry to hear about this. I think you should take artvandulet's advice and contact the consumer agency. The fact that he gave you back some money is an admission of guilt IMO.

It always amazes me, that in a country of four million people, that is renouned world wide for it's music, that boasts of one of the most successful rock bands in the world, that there is only a handful of people (if even that amount) experienced and qualified enough to carry out this, and similiar type of work on guitars.

Paolo_M

gazami wrote: »

Being a foreigner to this country it's not easy having some issue with local.
And I don't know any proper steps to deal with this kind of problem in this
country and I don't know how effective it would be.

Maybe the repair guy exploited my weakness. And if I make some argument
who knows what would happen? This repair guy dosen't have concience in
the first place. Do you think this guy really sorry about what happened?
I don't think so. And I don't think this is his first case.

The only thing I can do is giving some warning message to the other
people and about my guitar I'm thinking of sending it to some repair guy
in my country I can trust.

Thanks.

What's the worst he could do? Destroy your guitar?
He's already done that.

Could you firstly name the guy publicly so that no-one else has their guitar destroyed.

Then, for you own sake, contact the consumer agency linked above.
I'm sure that you are you entitled to all your money back.

I'm also pretty sure that he is obliged under law make good the damage. This would include a repair, equivalent replacement or handing over the current market value of the guitar in cash to you. The consumer agency will clarify this.

-Chris-

Go and ask for your money back right now.

Patricide

Any chance you can throw up a few pics of the job he did. Im fairly curious...

gazami

Coz it will surely take some time. And I have to get satisfied with playing
my fender japan telecaster alone which I don't like that much. Coz in that
case my guitar should be remained as it is before I get refund.

You are right Rigsby. This country is famous for its music and the bands.
I even thought the standard of Irish repair work would be higher than
my country's.

Sorry Patricide I don't have camera and my guitar is in my friend's house now.
He's supposed to fix the buzzing but he didn't do the job yet.

Anyway the most important thing was not the money. It's my guitar itself.
And it's already happend. Not reversible.

And about the consumer agency what if after several months they say
this is Irish standard result of refret nothing we can do.

Rigsby

gazami wrote: »

And about the consumer agency what if after several months they say
this is Irish standard result of refret nothing we can do.

Well, at least you'll have tried. Better than doing nothing and not even having the possibility of getting compensation.

If you do get on to them, inquire about the small claims court.

-Chris-

Bring the guitar to Derek Nelson, get a quote from him to bring the guitar back to its original condition.
Send this quote to the guy in Galway and ask him how he wants to proceed.

Johnny Storm

Paolo_M wrote: »

Could you firstly name the guy publicly so that no-one else has their guitar destroyed.

If you type "Galway" into the Search-this-forum box it doesnt take long to find the answer.
It appears one of our Moderators has some direct experience of the same guy.

Malice

Johnny Storm wrote: »

If you type "Galway" into the Search-this-forum box it doesnt take long to find the answer.
It appears one of our Moderators has some direct experience of the same guy.

That would be me . I have to say that I am very surprised he had the nerve to demand money after making a balls of the job. In my case he didn't ask for any money after he messed up my bass. In my case a small piece of the finish was chipped off near the top strap button. You can't really see it unless you go looking for it but it was still a frustrating thing to happen. As a result of that and a couple of other experiences that family members of mine have had I recommend steering clear of this guy as you no doubt read in that thread.

-Chris- wrote:

Bring the guitar to Derek Nelson, get a quote from him to bring the guitar back to its original condition.
Send this quote to the guy in Galway and ask him how he wants to proceed.

Don't forget to factor in travel expenses as well if you do this OP.

Welease

If the guy is an actual business, then there is a simple route to fix the problem..

1. Take the guitar to another expert, and get quote to fix the damage.
2. Take the original guitar repair guy to the small claims court (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/courts-system/small_claims_court) it will cost you 15 Euro, and claim for the cost of repairing the damage, plus your initial costs.. Let a judge decide (you don't need a solicitor for small claims)

There are laws in place to protect against shoddy practices..

Patricide

Welease wrote: »

If the guy is an actual business, then there is a simple route to fix the problem..

1. Take the guitar to another expert, and get quote to fix the damage.
2. Take the original guitar repair guy to the small claims court (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/justice/courts-system/small_claims_court) it will cost you 15 Euro, and claim for the cost of repairing the damage, plus your initial costs.. Let a judge decide (you don't need a solicitor for small claims)

There are laws in place to protect against shoddy practices..

This pretty much sums it up!

loopmonkey

I really feel for you gazami.

If it's the same guy that damaged my guitar a few years back then I can't understand how he's still getting away with it. I can't believe he had the cheek to still charge you for destroying your guitar!

Either way I'd definitely take Welease's advice if I was you. It might take a while, but you're sure to get a result if you do.

I didn't take my case any further once I found out the damage could be reversed, but you're in a perfect position to take a case since he
succeeded in taking money from you, even though he had ruined your guitar.

Malice

I have spoken to loopmonkey and gazami and shockingly, it's the same "repair" guy in each case who messed up our instruments.

Sergio

This guy would want a good hiding in my opinion.theres no way id be this calm if a wannabe tech damaged one of my guitars worth over 2k each.

Rigsby

A way should be found to try and inform people as to who this guy is, so as to prevent some other poor soul(s) suffering the same fate os the OP.

Malice

Rigsby wrote: »

A way should be found to try and inform people as to who this guy is, so as to prevent some other poor soul(s) suffering the same fate os the OP.

Well anyone that wants to know can PM me and I will happily tell them who he is. I won't be posting his name on here though and I would ask that no one else do either.

electrogrimey

Malice_ wrote: »

Well anyone that wants to know can PM me and I will happily tell them who he is. I won't be posting his name on here though and I would ask that no one else do either.

Why not? If there's pictorial proof that he does bad work, it's not slander. (I'm only playing devil's advocate here.)

Malice

electrogrimey wrote: »

Why not? If there's pictorial proof that he does bad work, it's not slander. (I'm only playing devil's advocate here.)

I don't know the exact legal term - whether it's libel, slander, defamation of character or whatever but I do know that Boards.ie is responsible for what gets posted so if the guy's name gets posted and he notices then he can bring Boards.ie to court. If you look around the site you'll come across instances where business names have been removed from posts. Also, I can't remember when exactly it was resolved but you may remember the MCD episode.

ledzepkickass

Its defamy if the remarks made damage the good name and reputation in the eyes of "right thinking people", thats a real lay mans defintion but publishing his name may be considered libel. Im startin law in sept hopefully but thats the way it was described to me!! P.M malice like he said, i did and im glad too, i had contacted the dodgey repai guy about getting some work done on my guitars!

Paolo_M

ledzepkickass wrote: »

Its defamy if the remarks made damage the good name and reputation in the eyes of "right thinking people", thats a real lay mans defintion but publishing his name may be considered libel. Im startin law in sept hopefully but thats the way it was described to me!! P.M malice like he said, i did and im glad too, i had contacted the dodgey repai guy about getting some work done on my guitars!

I don't understand why someone who repeatedly does bad work can have his "good name and reputation in the eyes of right thinking people" protected by law.
That makes no sense. A convicted criminal is not extended the same protection.
Newspapers are allowed to print their names as being criminal, why not name someone who does poor work and destroys people equipment?
The person has repeatedly done poor work and it is not untrue to say so.
The law is a nonsense if that's the case.

mardybumbum

Can you name the street he operates on?
As far as I remember a link was posted to his website a while ago from an angry boardsie who had shoddy work done on their instrument.

ledzepkickass

its a bit more complicated than that paolo-m, the papers are almost constantly being pursued in defamation cases. I agree its ridiculous, but theres a good chance the guy would pursue the site or the person that does publish his name. Thats the more "modern" view on defamation, the traditional view was that if the remarks were untrue and damaging to a persons good name. This isnt the place to discuss it really, im only offering what i know from my limited studies of law, like i said im starting academic studies in september, this is based on my existing knowlege.

Welease

Paolo_M wrote: »

I don't understand why someone who repeatedly does bad work can have his "good name and reputation in the eyes of right thinking people" protected by law.
That makes no sense. A convicted criminal is not extended the same protection.
Newspapers are allowed to print their names as being criminal, why not name someone who does poor work and destroys people equipment?
The person has repeatedly done poor work and it is not untrue to say so.
The law is a nonsense if that's the case.

A convicted criminal has a legal judgement against them.. It has been proven in court..
Anything said about this guy until proven (in court) is alleged, and would I assume not yet be a considered fact under law. The papers do avoid the question of defamation, by using the term alleged when referring to non convicted drug dealers etc.

Paolo_M

Welease wrote: »

A convicted criminal has a legal judgement against them.. It has been proven in court..
Anything said about this guy until proven (in court) is alleged, and would I assume not yet be a considered fact under law. The papers do avoid the question of defamation, by using the term alleged when referring to non convicted drug dealers etc.

OK, fair enough, but isn't the onus on the guy to take the person to court to prove they are wrong?
The proof is there so case closed, what's the risk?
The guy has to know that by bringing a case up then he will actually bring about a legal judgement that he is incompetent to do guitar repairs. I doubt he would want that.

Could the OP post prefix his post with "I'm alleging, and have other peoples supportive allegations, that XXX does poor repair work and should be avoided at all costs?". Would that avoid any potential defamation action?

Lastly, why are restaurant critics allowed to slam a restaurants food? That's also a service industry and it would be impossible to prove in court that xs restaurants chicken was "too salty".
Why is it ok to say I wouldn't buy a "xxx(insert major amp manufacturer name)" because they unreliable or whatever on a forum? This happens and is allowed all the time.
I can't see any consistency in this area and it doesn't appear to be designed with the general good of the public in mind.

Obviously this is a kind of general rhetoric for the forum and I'm not questioning you and or expecting answers directly from you Welease, but if you can shed some light that would be great!!


In my opinion, any service person can make a mistake and should not be publicly named for it. Instead they should be allowed the opportunity to put the situation right in an agreed manner with the customer. In fact they could improve their reputation by doing that. No-one should allowed to post anything complaining about a service until they prove that they have exhausted all reasonable options with the service provider to put the situation right.

However, what this person did was criminal in my mind. Would anyone else agree?

* steps back down off the soap box *

Welease

Paolo_M wrote: »

OK, fair enough, but isn't the onus on the guy to take the person to court to prove they are wrong?
The proof is there so case closed, what's the risk?
The guy has to know that by bringing a case up then he will actually bring about a legal judgement that he is incompetent to do guitar repairs. I doubt he would want that.

Could the OP post prefix his post with "I'm alleging, and have other peoples supportive allegations, that XXX does poor repair work and should be avoided at all costs?". Would that avoid any potential defamation action?

Lastly, why are restaurant critics allowed to slam a restaurants food? That's also a service industry and it would be impossible to prove in court that xs restaurants chicken was "too salty".
Why is it ok to say I wouldn't buy a "xxx(insert major amp manufacturer name)" because they unreliable or whatever on a forum? This happens and is allowed all the time.
I can't see any consistency in this area and it doesn't appear to be designed with the general good of the public in mind.

Obviously this is a kind of general rhetoric for the forum and I'm not questioning you and or expecting answers directly from you Welease, but if you can shed some light that would be great!!

Well I think there are a couple of different issues at play here, and with the first I don't claim to fully understand or represent boards.ie opinion (disclaimer before a mod slaps me , so maybe a mod would like to comment directly)..

In theory, you can say what you like.. and if the person who the comment is directed at takes offense they can decide to sue. In the case of boards.ie they could be held partially liable as the vehicle for the slander. Boards.ie could not be reasonably expected to verify all statements made by all posters, so it's better for them (imho) to put a ban in place asking that people do not name companies responsible until the allegations have been proven. Remember that while some allegations are undoubtably true, some could also be false and used as a way to ruin someone's reputation.
(boards.ie did have a case with MCD previously, and although I can't remember the details specifically it was something along those lines iirc)

Regarding the restaurant reviews.. They are in fact held accountable to the same rules, it's just that most establishments choose either regard the bad reviews as fair comment, or choose not to take the legal route..

"A FOOD critic being sued for defamation over a bad review says most restaurants in Australia serve "crap" food.

Under cross-examination in the New South Wales Supreme Court, Matthew Evans also said while he believed a bad review could have some impact on a restaurant, it was not enough to cause its demise."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/sued-critic-matthew-evans-says-most-australian-restaurants-serve-crap-food/story-e6freuz0-1225798179691

"McDonald's has labelled as "defamatory and offensive" an influential Italian food critic, who poured scorn on the quality of the fast-food giant's cuisine.
The corporation has sued Edoardo Raspelli, a critic and commentator for the Italian newspaper La Stampa, after he compared its burgers to rubber and its fries to cardboard, in an article last year."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2951486.stm

etc

eoin5

The stuff that gets said over on the politics board about stuff that isnt proven yet is pretty heavy-handed. I guess its our national passtime so allowances can be made

Welease

eoin5 wrote: »

The stuff that gets said over on the politics board about stuff that isnt proven yet is pretty heavy-handed. I guess its our national passtime so allowances can be made

hehe yeah.. but those people can leave themselves open if someone decided to act on their comments.

There have been lots of cases in recent times (not sure how many in Ireland) where bloggers have felt the wrath of the law for comments made. It used to just be the established media who had access to the masses (TV, Radio, Print etc.) and they would be somewhat trained to avoid costly mistakes, but in recent times the internet has allowed everyone to make comments that are available globally in seconds.. A lot more people are making comments and it would appear, a lot more are taking offense through legal channels.

(and I should post, none of the above or previous posts should be considered legal advice! )

Just found this article, which give some insight into the problems associated with hosting forums..

"Many plaintiffs will sue not the person who wrote the defamatory material but the internet business which displayed it. This may be because they cannot identify the author or because the author doesn’t have a bob. Either way, it presents a problem for online businesses in Ireland, which face the risk of substantial damages for what users say, even though they are not responsible for what is said. Some providers, such as chatrooms and forums, do have limited protection under European law, giving them immunity from damages — provided they act quickly to remove defamatory material when they become aware of it.
But there is no guidance as to what is meant by being “aware” of defamatory material. This lack of certainty discourages internet providers from taking responsible steps to monitor user comments for fear that, if they do, they will be deemed to be aware of the content and therefore liable. It also creates a problem when someone makes a vague complaint and doesn’t specify what is defamatory. The only solution may be to remove all material referring to them.
The result of this limited immunity is often privatised censorship, with internet hosts feeling obliged to remove users’ comments in response to legal threats. Simple economics encourage this. The cost of legal advice to determine whether material is defamatory, and the risk of liability, means that the safest response is taking down content or closing off debates. Boards.ie felt compelled to ban all discussion of MCD events after the concert promoter took a libel action over users’ posts about the Oxegen festival."


http://www.digitalrights.ie/2010/02/28/irish-defamation-law-still-inadequate-for-internet/




But this is getting, waaaay of topic now So I'll stop.