Minister announces details of DTT

craoltoir

Ireland
Details of digital TV plans announced

Thursday, 29 July 2010 16:15
Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has announced plans for the roll-out of digital television here.
RTÉ will build the replacement service at a cost of €70 million. No commercial provider will be involved in phase 1.
The digital service will reach 98% of the population, while RTE has plans to develop a satellite service for the remaining 2%.


Minister Ryan said that by switching to digital television, space will be freed up on the spectrum, which will now be used for broadband services.
He said he would not rule out commercial providers getting involved at a later stage. He also said he wants to look at RTÉ's future ownership of the transmission network.


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Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0729/dtt.html

craoltoir

Story also here:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ryan-announces-rollout-of-digital-tv-467294.html

Sponge Bob

Quiet news day so Ryan reannounces old news

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0729/dtt.html

Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has officially announced plans for the roll-out of Digital Terrestrial Television in Ireland.
RTÉ will build the replacement service at a cost of €70 million. No commercial provider will be involved in phase 1.
The digital service will reach 98% of the population, while RTÉ has plans to develop a satellite service for the remaining 2%.
It will also provide significant coverage throughout Northern Ireland.

Minister Ryan said that by switching to digital television, space will be freed up on the spectrum, which will now be used for broadband services.
He said he would not rule out commercial providers getting involved at a later stage. He also said he wants to look at RTÉ's future ownership of the transmission network.
RTÉ's Chief Financial Officer told an Oireachtas Committee this month that by October of this year, RTÉ would have a national TV free-to-air multiplex operational, which would be capable of being received by approximately 94.5% of the population.
Mr Hayes said that it is planned that 97.2% of the population will be covered by the second quarter of 2011.
RTÉ would reach the statutory requirement to have coverage for 98% of the population by the fourth quarter of 2012.
The new TV service will be available on both a terrestrial network and a satellite network. RTÉ is planning on building a terrestrial network which will operate from 51 transmitter sites throughout the country. RTÉ currently operates 170 analogue sites.

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Quiet news day so Ryan reannounces old news

This is the Dept's approval for the revamped DTT plan submitted by RTÉ last month. They had not received it at the time Conor Hayes spoke to the Joint Committee.

Mr. Conor Hayes: We are focused on analogue switch-off. It must occur on 31 December 2012. We are all getting geared up towards it. I have laid out for the committee the content for the first public service MUX. This is our proposal to the Minister, but he has not made his decision. It is not ours to take and all we can do is make a proposal.

Digifriendly

craoltoir wrote: »

Ireland
Details of digital TV plans announced

Thursday, 29 July 2010 16:15
Communications Minister Eamon Ryan has announced plans for the roll-out of digital television here.
RTÉ will build the replacement service at a cost of €70 million. No commercial provider will be involved in phase 1.
The digital service will reach 98% of the population, while RTE has plans to develop a satellite service for the remaining 2%.


Minister Ryan said that by switching to digital television, space will be freed up on the spectrum, which will now be used for broadband services.
He said he would not rule out commercial providers getting involved at a later stage. He also said he wants to look at RTÉ's future ownership of the transmission network.


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Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0729/dtt.html

Simple question - could they not power up either some of the main transmitters or even some of the planned relays and so cover remaining 2% and save themselves the hassle of launching a satellite service?

smalone56

Digifriendly wrote: »

Simple question - could they not power up either some of the main transmitters or even some of the planned relays and so cover remaining 2% and save themselves the hassle of launching a satellite service?

No, it doesn't work like that. It's line of sight only, mountains and hills obstruct the signal in valleys and such.

The Cush

Digifriendly wrote: »

Simple question - could they not power up either some of the main transmitters or even some of the planned relays and so cover remaining 2% and save themselves the hassle of launching a satellite service?

If 170 analogue sites can only cover 98% of the population I doubt increasing power levels on the planned 51 DTT sites will make up the difference, I would assume if it were possible RTÉNL would be doing it, saving themselves the additional hassle of Saorsat. Increasing power levels could also cause interference to other sites.

smalone56

The operating, security and maintenance costs of an additional 119 sites would also not be unsubstantial. I'm sure a cost benefit analysis has something to do with their plans.

In the old days

The Cush wrote: »

If 170 analogue sites can only cover 98% of the population I doubt increasing power levels on the planned 51 DTT sites will make up the difference, I would assume if it were possible RTÉNL would be doing it, saving themselves the additional hassle of Saorsat. Increasing power levels could also cause interference to other sites.

To be fair to RTENL I think the reliable DTT range from the 51 DTT transmitters selected (particularly when on proposed full power following ASO) should be considerably better than current analogue coverage from the same 51 transmitters. The cost v benefit for rolling out the remaining 100+ relay transmitters must be more than questionable in pragmatic terms. As many people outside of current strong transmitter range (or those who will have poor DTT reception) are SKY orientiated anyway that leaves those currently on basic analogue terrestrial on economic grounds to be sorted. How many of them would these be?? I can see a decent take up in Freesat/Saorview combos of some description as ASO approaches. I can't see too many sticking up a saorsat dish rather than a sky basic with free install/gear etc., especially if SKY ramp up offers for these. Some sort of subsidy for saorsat??Otherwise anyone for illegal DTT reflectors???

scath

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Quiet news day so Ryan reannounces old news

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0729/dtt.html

Sound like indeed, he has approved the RTÉ proposals. He seems to be looking at ownership of the transmission network and also later involvement by commercial providers in the service. These all seem sensible. Its what BBC have done with its broadcast transmission business. Its right to leave the door open to commercial providers.

I wonder what he's doing regarding the 2 new psb's. Is he giving them funding or leaving it for 2 more years?

I asked that question from the Dept but not got a reply yet. I assume because hadn't been decided. Next thing now is co-ordination. He needs to begin setup of the Info campaign under a co-ordinating body ie Digital Ireland and a funding plan for sign off by Dept of Finance. So I suspect that'll be in December budget or else allocated to RTÉ to form with minimal funding. Later, commercial operators can join that body.

Next question then is when...which he doesn't say only October 31st. No doubt he should be outlining to RTÉ in his response the launch timeline. Meantime us mere mortals must wait for the word to come out. At least a decision is good as someone said to me. Indecision is bad.

Sam Russell

The tone of the RTE News item left one with the impression that those (unfortunate and poor) few who use an aerial would have to buy a new (expensive) set top box and could not get TV any other way. No mention of MPEG4 or iDTVs. No mention that 60% will get the signal with not much bother, nor that TG4 reception was a clue to how good the DTT signal would be. Very poor explanation altogether. Hope better is to come.

Macy0161

Yes, and judging by reactions I've seen on other sites, the news isn't being well received.

Sponge Bob

Macy0161 wrote: »

Yes, and judging by reactions I've seen on other sites, the news isn't being well received.

Wait till they find out that they will all need to buy a new mobile phone ( each) as well

scath

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Wait till they find out that they will all need to buy a new mobile phone ( each) as well

On that point I raised in an email about DTT via the mobile phone. The response was is being explored but harked back to the trial. But that was DVB-H not DVB-T in terms of 02, 3.
I don't know. But it seems from reading...thanks to thecush who pointed out despite my long transcript of JC on Broadcasting that launch public is Q2 end 2011 not October 31st. 31st October is testing and box sales. I would say chances are that boxes will be on sale with an information campaign but that channel launch will not occur until Q2 2010. How can they have public test if boxes are not for sale. To me 2 dates seems odd.

I wonder will he roll back to DVB-T2. I guess probably not other than they will be the ones probably on sale from UK land as future-proof thereby making switch by RTÉ NL seemless later. Those in the know may go for Freeview HD boxes whereas those not make opt for cheaper intermediate box. But methinks because of UK, Freeview HD boxes will predominate and be tagged with Saorview logo. For manufacturers its a wee help that co-incides with region by region UK rollout.

JHMEG

Sponge Bob wrote: »

RTÉ has plans to develop a satellite service for the remaining 2%.

2% or 100%, satellite is going to cost the same, so why bother with terrestrial at all?

byrnefm

JHMEG wrote: »

2% or 100%, satellite is going to cost the same, so why bother with terrestrial at all?

I'd think it's because that not everyone is allowed to have a satellite dish put up - or that some are unable to, for example, those in apartments or students.

Sam Russell

JHMEG wrote: »

2% or 100%, satellite is going to cost the same, so why bother with terrestrial at all?

Well, no! First, satellite is only an option if the bird flies. It is not launched yet. The DTT is up and running now for 90% of the population, and possibly upto 95% if the turn up the wick.

Second, anyone will have a choice whether to go for an aerial or a dish. If you have freesat, the a dish might be a good choice. [Do not know because there is no information about the satellite or the costs of the dish etc.]

At €1.5m per mux, say €3m for both. There are aprox 1.5 m licences so cost is €2 per licence. Not much really to give everyone the choice. Could it be that it is aimed at the West and South West?

watty

It covers all of Ireland.

But it's a single point of failure (meteor, unfriendl nation's laser/missile, Solar Flare, electronics or navigation human error).

It's owned by a company overseas.

We need a network of our own and the Network company should remain in state control.

Sponge Bob

It is a single point of failure, no other sats in that part of the sky can broadcast on the Ka band. And the other sat in that location carries ......this ....although the one next door is used for Arqiva feeds which can be repurposed I suppose ???

danjo

In the majority of cases a domestic terrestrial receiver installation will be signifcantly cheaper than a satellite.

JHMEG

byrnefm wrote: »

I'd think it's because that not everyone is allowed to have a satellite dish put up - or that some are unable to, for example, those in apartments or students.

The same applies to aerials.

JHMEG

watty wrote: »

We need a network of our own and the Network company should remain in state control.

Why? You sound like a member of the Labour party. Who as it happens said Aer Lingus should remain in state control and no other operators should be licensed. Spot the similarities? I do.

€70 million would buy us an awful lot of satellite time, on a satellite that's had less down time than RTE, and everyone on the island and beyond can "see", even if they live in a hole in the bog.

As now, virtually no-one is going to stick with 4-channel terrestrial. Real people will have Sky/Freesat/UPC, so why bother with a costly and fragmented platform run by the public service that isn't satisfying the needs to the majority of the population in the first place.

Bob_Harris

JHMEG wrote: »

The same applies to aerials.

But not everyone has to install an aerial outside. In the attic will do for a lot of people, not to mention those living in strong reception areas where a simple STB aerial will do the job.

It would be a bit silly to require every house in the country to have a dish installed, and for every TV in the house you would need at least 1 LNB output.

JHMEG

Bob_Harris wrote: »

But not everyone has to install an aerial outside. In the attic will do for a lot of people, not to mention those living in strong reception areas where a simple STB aerial will do the job.

It would be a bit silly to require every house in the country to have a dish installed, and for every TV in the house you would need at least 1 LNB output.

Virtually every property in the country that's not on UPC/cable has Sky (or Freesat) already...

[I can't find up to date figures, but Sky had "over 600,000" Irish subscribers in 2009]

lawhec

JHMEG wrote: »

2% or 100%, satellite is going to cost the same, so why bother with terrestrial at all?

There was a thread debating this idea last year - my points on that thread would still be relevant today, namely that for the reasons outlined no country is sacrificing its analogue terrestrial TV network with no digital terrestrial equivalent put in place. Israel and Romania were strongly thinking about it at first but changed their minds. New Zealand also thought about it but decided it was not wise to rely on satellite alone, indeed FTA HD content in NZ is only by terrestrial means, the satellite "Freeview NZ" service only delivers SD TV content.

In any case, even if the VHF Band III and UHF Bands IV & V were abandoned for broadcasting in Ireland, its potential reuse would pose problems - they would be subject to international restrictions and also interference from other countries, both potentially thorny issues in places like the border counties and the east coast. The UK thought of using (and indeed have done to this day) PMR services in VHF Bands I & III after they switched off their 405-line services in the 1980's against the grain of almost every other country who still used these frequencies for broadcasting, and soon found out that this was fraught with problems, concerning propagation and interference from neighbouring countries. More than half of Band I today is lying idle.

The path now being led in the RoI regarding the progression to DTT and switching off analogue is not too different to what Switzerland done - a country with an even bigger cable take up than Ireland has of cable & satellite. The Swiss digital switch over gave no more public channels (at first) than what was available on analogue; the end goal was to give four PSB channels on one multiplex - two in the native language of the area (I think German language areas now have three), and one in each of the other two, using small-ish SFNs with transmissions in the UHF band vertically polarised giving portable & mobile reception. The network planned for RoI isn't born in mind for mobile reception (though portable should be possible in some places) but it uses the same one multiplex approach for now to carry current and possibly a few more services. In due course, if there is a real possibility of a commercial operator looking to operate on a DTT platform after analogue is switched off, that could be done.

Sponge Bob

JHMEG wrote: »

[I can't find up to date figures, but Sky had "over 600,000" Irish subscribers in 2009]

Comreg supply them, you are forgetting to clarify that 70,000 homes have MMDS and that Sky Subscribers /= Satellite TV Viewers as it ignores the considerable base of Astra Freesat and Polish TV such as Cyfra never mind the myriad minority subscribers.

STB

JHMEG wrote: »

Why? You sound like a member of the Labour party. Who as it happens said Aer Lingus should remain in state control and no other operators should be licensed. Spot the similarities? I do.

€70 million would buy us an awful lot of satellite time, on a satellite that's had less down time than RTE, and everyone on the island and beyond can "see", even if they live in a hole in the bog.
As now, virtually no-one is going to stick with 4-channel terrestrial. Real people will have Sky/Freesat/UPC, so why bother with a costly and fragmented platform run by the public service that isn't satisfying the needs to the majority of the population in the first place.

Its called a public service broadcsting. RTE are mandated to do it. It is meant to reflect the culture of Ireland. The same way the BBC are mandated to do so for the UK albeit with a shed load more money they collect from the population base that is 14 times that of Ireland. Again they just dont bother with satellite alone, do they ?

Because believe it or not you are in the minority. Irish viewing habits show that RTE commands just short of 40% of the viewing publics everyday viewing. This is complemented by the UK FTA stations.

Yes we need our own infrastructure. Yes ASO and DSO must happen. The costs of servicing that extra 2% in difficult to reach areas is cheaper on sat than running infill transmitters. Not alone that but this sat service services the whole of Ireland in parallel, not just that little bits that make up the 2%. Bit of a no brainer.

It may be just 4 terrestrial stations, but used in conjunction with Free to Air Satellite stations it is a situation that most REAL Irish people want. A lot of real Irish people dont have jobs anymore! Sky and UPC are losing a lot of customers as those with less disposable income drop the unnecesary items of expenditure such as pay TV. These are the real people you are talking about No ?

The HD Combo Sat & DTT box for this very reason WILL be the next thing that people will simply buy and forget about. Sky/UPC will be yesterday when people ctch on to the hardware costs (€150 for a HD combo box for more stations than they are paying British/American companies for with no more bills!). Believe me this how TV will go in this country. It wont just be discussed on TV techy forums. More like consumer/ask about money forums. NTL and Sky have been ripping off consumers for years for basically channels that are availble FTA. As the general discover this Sky's customer base will drop significantly as will the stranglehold they have had on people wallets for a long time.

9 out of the 10 most watched channels in Ireland on all platforms are free to air.

JHMEG

Did I say get rid of RTE? No.

STB wrote: »

It may be just 4 terrestrial stations, but used in conjunction with Free to Air Satellite stations it is a situation that most REAL Irish people want.

Garbage. Anyone who has FTA satellite wants RTE on the same satellite system, not a separate STB and aerial.

STB

JHMEG wrote: »

Did I say get rid of RTE? No.

Garbage. Anyone who has FTA satellite wants RTE on the same satellite system, not a separate STB and aerial.

HD COMBO BOX - ONE BOX COMBINES BOTH IN ONE CHANNEL LIST. They cost €150, a once off cost! Significantly cheaper than a years sub to NTL or Sky with more choice and no monthly bills.

Garbage indeed.

Would you like me to post you what REAL Irish people actually want ?

FREETV

STB wrote: »

HD COMBO BOX - ONE BOX COMBINES BOTH IN ONE CHANNEL LIST. They cost €150, a once off cost! Significantly cheaper than a years sub to NTL or Sky with more choice and no monthly bills.

Garbage indeed.

Would you like me to post you what REAL Irish people actually want ?

What would be ideal for all would be a certified Saorsat/Saorview box next year and for instance, if there is a violent storm and picture breakup while watching Saorsat then all one would have to do is press a button on the remote or scroll up or down to the Saorview service to watch the terrestrial service and hence no interruption to viewing or recording. I wouldn't go out and buy a combo box until there is a certified one for both services. They could change the spec again in a few years when more HD channels for Saorview will be added.

JHMEG

STB wrote: »

HD COMBO BOX - ONE BOX COMBINES BOTH IN ONE CHANNEL LIST.

You're telling us that people want a combo receiver with a satellite dish and a tv aerial, instead of a cheaper satellite-only receiver and just a dish?:rolleyes:

Bob_Harris

JHMEG wrote: »

You're telling us that people want a combo receiver with a satellite dish and a tv aerial, instead of a cheaper satellite-only receiver and just a dish?:rolleyes:

Well, Saorsat is not going to be on 28.2E so you will probably need two dishes, or a very elaborate single dish.

STB

Now that you have been corrected on your "you will need 2 boxes" buzz I'll answer your question.

Irish people watch mainly 10 channels. 9 out of those 10 are Free to air.

TOP 10 Watched Stations 2009
Position Channel Owner Share of total viewing (%)
1 RTÉ One Raidió Teilifís Éireann 23.7 FTA
2 TV3 Ireland TV3 Group 12.3 FTA
3 RTÉ Two Raidió Teilifís Éireann 9.65 FTA
4 BBC One Northern Ireland BBC 5.29 FTA
5 UTV UTV Media 4.53 FTA
6 Channel 4 NI Channel 4 3.74 FTA
7 BBC Two Northern Ireland BBC 3.06 FTA
8 TG4 Teilifís na Gaeilge 2.67 FTA
9 Sky1 Sky Ireland 1.92
10 E4 Channel 4 1.19 FTA


Free TV - No Monthly bills
An indoor aerial or an outdoor aerial costs less than €40.

A HD combo box costs €150. One remote control, one list of channels.

Here is a list of the channels you will receive with no further bills on the HD Combo . As you will see the channel list is a little more comprehensive than what you could be paying for.

Pay TV

Sky is €23 per month for a basic channel list.

UPC's most basic package costs €24.75 per month.

Now Einstein, of your 600,000 Sky customer base quoted earlier, do you think that and an aerial will be a problem to the average joe when they are told they dont need to subscribe to UPC/Sky to get the channels they have been watching (and more) with no further bills ?

Most houses around the country have aerials in any event. Sky will be haemorrhaging customers fairly soon I would have thought when people realise that they have being blindly paying for their viewing habits which is actually Free to Air.

:rolleyes: Yourself.

Macy0161

JHMEG wrote: »

You're telling us that people want a combo receiver with a satellite dish and a tv aerial, instead of a cheaper satellite-only receiver and just a dish?:rolleyes:

2 months sky basic subs will get you an aerial, mast and brackets that'll serve most areas (if it's even needed). And of course, you seem to be assuming that most houses don't have an aerial already - if they do in most cases they'll be getting DTT signals anyway - no additional cost above the once off receiver cost.

On a general point re: satellite/ sky/ corus customers, that means the number of customers not the number of TV's per household.

Mr McBoatface

JHMEG wrote: »

You're telling us that people want a combo receiver with a satellite dish and a tv aerial, instead of a cheaper satellite-only receiver and just a dish?:rolleyes:

I found a 10-12 Euro aerial like this " http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=33215&criteria=TV%20aerial&doy=3m7 " works just fine for DTT. I've set up several combo's for friend and relatives replacing SKY, each time I located the aerial in the attic, ran a cable from it down the side of the wall parallel to the SKY cable through the same hole in the wall. A cheap 15 minute upgrade, the service including HD is as good as SKY or UPC basic, so much better when the price is factored in.

Those friend/family who I've upgraded will never go back to pay TV services again. Why would they now they have RTE plus UK channels, they don't care about two dishes etc, they care about what's on the TV and not what free signal source/method it comes from.

JHMEG

STB wrote: »

Most houses around the country have aerials in any event.

No they do not. Half the population lives in cities like Dublin where there are shag all aerials. A significant number of the other half are Sky subscribers and receive RTE on that platform, having abandoned their aerials long ago.

STB wrote:

Sky will be haemorrhaging customers fairly soon

How do you work that out??????

"Did you know if you abandon your existing setup and and fork out for a completely new box, a new aerial, and a new dish, you'll get less channels! But the good news is that aside from the several hundred Euro in equipment and installation costs you have to pay up front, this will only cost you €150 a year"

Like I said, just put RTE free on satellite for the whole population and forget this other terrestrial crap.

Bob_Harris

JHMEG wrote: »

No they do not. Half the population lives in cities like Dublin where there are shag all aerials.

Have you been inside their houses? Most people in Dublin will be able to use an indoor aerial when DTT is full power.

Apogee

JHMEG wrote: »

Like I said, just put RTE free on satellite for the whole population and forget this other terrestrial crap.

Realistically, that is never going to happen.

STB

JHMEG wrote: »

No they do not. Half the population lives in cities like Dublin where there are shag all aerials. A significant number of the other half are Sky subscribers and receive RTE on that platform, having abandoned their aerials long ago.

You do NOT have to subscribe to Sky to get RTE or indeed FTA Sat. In most cases in dublin an indoor aerial will suffice! That is the power of DTT via analogue! I KNOW I have been using it for close on 3 years!

JHMEG wrote: »

How do you work that out??????

"Did you know if you abandon your existing setup and and fork out for a completely new box, a new aerial, and a new dish, you'll get less channels! But the good news is that aside from the several hundred Euro in equipment and installation costs you have to pay up front, this will only cost you €150 a year"

Like I said, just put RTE free on satellite for the whole population and forget this other terrestrial crap.

NEW DISH! - Your old dish will suffice.

€150 is the once off for the box- NOT PER YEAR.

The reasons RTE arent on 28.2 are quite clear. I have also already outlined their statutory FTA obligations.

There is more channels on a Combo HD box than UPC/Sky including FTA HD Channels! Subscription Free too.

I suggest you go somewhere else and discuss something you are proficient in. Most of the time I play the ball but you are giving me a pain in my nads.

Dont work for sky or upc ? You sound very upset that someone will take your sat remote away.

Jeez.

Sam Russell

Sky customers just have to remove their card and get UK FTA channels. No cost there then. Or could shell out €100 or so euros for a Freesat box or €50 for a FTA one.

60% of people will be able to get RTE etc on a simple (low cost) aerial. To receive DTT they need an iDTV or a suitable STB. Cost for a STB likely to be sub €100, a new TV will be iDTV if they are careful, at no extra cost.

Overall, in time, retailers will be explaining all this to surprised customers, who will rush home and cancel Sky.

.

The Cush

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Wait till they find out that they will all need to buy a new mobile phone ( each) as well

scath wrote: »

On that point I raised in an email about DTT via the mobile phone. The response was is being explored but harked back to the trial. But that was DVB-H not DVB-T in terms of 02, 3.

Going back to an earlier post in the thread regarding DVB-H/mobile TV, since RRC-06 two UHF layers are allocated to alternative uses e.g. DVB-H, this was of course before the Digital Dividend plan was developed.

Following a consultation in 2008 Comreg this year published an Information Notice in which they plan award a licence for broadcast mobile television in the five urban areas of Cork, Dublin, Galway, Limerick and Waterford with a single UHF channel in each urban area using the limited spectrum which has been identified, between 470 MHz to 750 MHz. Nationwide mobile TV won't become an option until after ASO due to the lack of spectrum. The licencing process is due to begin in Q3.

Regarding the requirement for a new phone for mobile TV services a new phone will also be required for the liberalised 900 MHz GSM band probably within the next few years.

As Comreg and mobile operators are no doubt aware DVB-H mobile TV services throughout Europe have not been commercially successful in countries where they have been rolled out and during May Spain cancelled it's plans to roll out a commercial mobile TV service and also Swisscom discontinued it's DVH-H service in March citing a lack of DVB-H compatible devices to make the service a success. The future for an Irish mobile TV service doesn't look too good at the moment with it's planned two year rollout obligation in these difficult economic times, 3g or 4g TV services in the released digital dividend spectrum could be a more realistic option.

watty

N97 Mini already does GSM or UTMS on 900MHz, probably loads of other World Band phones do. But 3G is a stupid waste of 900MHz. It should be grouped with 800MHz for larger LTE channels (20MHz vs 5MHz gives x4 speed) and also fixed wireless Broadband.

DVB-h is dead. The phones with DVB-t have been more successful and use now no more power. Current phones with DVB-t may only be MPEG2. Check before purchase.

DVB-h was also theorised to be a pay TV only service for phones. Obviously that can't compete in Germany with free DVB-t.

3G is brain dead. We need LTE mobile and fixed Wireless Broadband (any mix LTE, WiMax, DOCSIS/WiDox) in any new spectrum. Not more 3G. The 1800MHz GSM is underutilised. Let them migrate that to 3G if they are so fond of it.

The Operator enthusism on 900MHz UMTS (3G) is more about voice Revenue and a single infrastructure with low mast density in Rural. It's not about better 3G/HSPA data capacity for Internet, that's a myth.

See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055984615

slegs

FREETV wrote: »

I wouldn't go out and buy a combo box until there is a certified one for both services. They could change the spec again in a few years when more HD channels for Saorview will be added.

Is this the DVB-T2 nonsense debate again. I am really tiring of the misinformation being spread here on this topic.

So with your point dont buy ant DVB-T receiver just in case in three years time they switch to DVB-T2 in HD (which is not likely anyway). No technology purchase is completely future proof but it is a pretty good medium term purchase to go for DVB-T/MPEG4 for Irish DTT.

Its like saying dony buy Sky HD now in case they release a new box for Sky 3D.

You will find it hard to get a dual certified combo box not least because of the cost of certification for such a small market (combo boxes are not made by Sony or Panasonic).

I will be interested to see how many manufacturers go for certification full stop.

Sponge Bob

DVB-H is a very dead duck, no phones have been launched since H1 2008 that I know of and the Comreg authorised trials ended over 2 years ago but I would further point out that no DVB-T2 phones have ever been launched that I know of either

DVB-SH is equally pants Don't even start me on the 'unified' standard, DVB-NGH ....but I will say pants again for luck.

Meanwhile MMDS will go below 70,000 subscribers when the UPC Q2 results come out on Wednesday. Hopefully this will convince Comreg to terminate the MMDS licence at end 2014 latest, they are permaconsulting on that issue at present.

VH

STB wrote: »

€150 is the once off for the box- NOT PER YEAR.

€150 per year is for the TV licence.

I have a an expensive sat box, and no aerial. I won't bother with RTE once they switch off the analog.

Sponge Bob

There is no question to my mind that a Broadcasting Act will be rammed through the Dáil between now and July 2011 that will ensure that anybody with a satellite dish only and no terrestrial RTE reception or decoding capability will have to get a TV licence. This will be about Ryans fourth broadcasting act on the trot, moron

The licence requirement will be designed for those living in rural areas post ASO and for those with foreign tv only.

STB

So long as the TV/computer is able to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satellite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) e.g. using a television tuner card or similar device, then you need a licence under the Broadcasting Act 2009.

STB

VH wrote: »

€150 per year is for the TV licence.

I have a an expensive sat box, and no aerial. I won't bother with RTE once they switch off the analog.

A TV Licence costs €160 not €150.

You will still require a licence. Its for the TV.

watty

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The licence requirement will be designed for those living in rural areas post ASO and for those with foreign tv only.

TV licence August 1960

RTE TV launch Dec 1961

The TV licence was introduced and mooted years earlier, precisely for "Foreign TV"

Freddie59

STB wrote: »

Now that you have been corrected on your "you will need 2 boxes" buzz I'll answer your question.

Irish people watch mainly 10 channels. 9 out of those 10 are Free to air.

TOP 10 Watched Stations 2009
Position Channel Owner Share of total viewing (%)
1 RTÉ One Raidió Teilifís Éireann 23.7 FTA
2 TV3 Ireland TV3 Group 12.3 FTA
3 RTÉ Two Raidió Teilifís Éireann 9.65 FTA
4 BBC One Northern Ireland BBC 5.29 FTA
5 UTV UTV Media 4.53 FTA
6 Channel 4 NI Channel 4 3.74 FTA
7 BBC Two Northern Ireland BBC 3.06 FTA
8 TG4 Teilifís na Gaeilge 2.67 FTA
9 Sky1 Sky Ireland 1.92
10 E4 Channel 4 1.19 FTA


Free TV - No Monthly bills
An indoor aerial or an outdoor aerial costs less than €40.

A HD combo box costs €150. One remote control, one list of channels.

Here is a list of the channels you will receive with no further bills on the HD Combo . As you will see the channel list is a little more comprehensive than what you could be paying for.

Pay TV

Sky is €23 per month for a basic channel list.

UPC's most basic package costs €24.75 per month.

Now Einstein, of your 600,000 Sky customer base quoted earlier, do you think that and an aerial will be a problem to the average joe when they are told they dont need to subscribe to UPC/Sky to get the channels they have been watching (and more) with no further bills ?

Most houses around the country have aerials in any event. Sky will be haemorrhaging customers fairly soon I would have thought when people realise that they have being blindly paying for their viewing habits which is actually Free to Air.

:rolleyes: Yourself.

Interesting stats. But, as one who has reared three (now adult) children, those stats do not reflect the change in viewing habits in the past 20 years. My age group (50+) would have considered BBC & ITV as THE channels. I can assure you the younger ones do not.

They want (nay, demand) more choice than boring terrestrial channels can give. It is a fact of life. Even in my own case, I used to watch BBC and ITV regularly. Not any more. Mainly Sky One, Hallmark, Living, Discovery/Nat Geo etc nowadays.

And NONE of these are FTA.

STB

Freddie59 wrote: »

Interesting stats. But, as one who has reared three (now adult) children, those stats do not reflect the change in viewing habits in the past 20 years. My age group (50+) would have considered BBC & ITV as THE channels. I can assure you the younger ones do not.

They want (nay, demand) more choice than boring terrestrial channels can give. It is a fact of life. Even in my own case, I used to watch BBC and ITV regularly. Not any more. Mainly Sky One, Hallmark, Living, Discovery/Nat Geo etc nowadays.

And NONE of these are FTA.

These most certainly do reflect the viewing habits accross ALL demographics of channel viewing in Ireland for year ended 2009.

The full list is below. The channels you quote do NOT command high percentages of viewing accross the viewing poulation in Ireland. In most cases outside of Sky 1, the viewing percentages are below 1% and nearly all below 0.05%. Some of the ones you have mentioned are not on the radar among viewing habits.

These viewing figures are used by advertising companies to place adverts! The ones that are FTA are in bold.

Position Channel Owner Share of total viewing (%)

1 RTÉ One Raidió Teilifís Éireann 23.7
2 TV3 Ireland TV3 Group 12.3
3 RTÉ Two Raidió Teilifís Éireann 9.65
4 BBC One Northern Ireland BBC 5.29
5 UTV UTV Media 4.53
6 Channel 4 NI Channel 4 3.74
7 BBC Two Northern Ireland BBC 3.06
8 TG4 Teilifís na Gaeilge 2.67
9 Sky1 Sky Ireland 1.92
10 E4 Channel 4 1.19
11 Living Virgin Media Television 1.18
12 Comedy Central MTV Networks Europe 1.02
13 Sky News Ireland Sky Ireland 1.17
14 Setanta Ireland Setanta Sports 0.9
15 Sky Sports 1 Sky Ireland 0.94
16 3e TV3 Group 0.85 (Soon to be FTA on Digital terrrestrial)
17 MTV MTV Networks Europe 0.72
18 Sky Sports News BSkyB 0.53
19 Nickelodeon Ireland MTV Networks Europe 0.48
20 Nick Jr MTV Networks Europe 0.46

Compiled by Nielsen Ireland

Of course as people discover that 9 of the Top 10 are free to air that they have being paying the switch will happen. You will also start seeing changes in these viewing figures with viewing shows starting to appear for Cbbebies, BBC3 and 4 and the ITVs 2,3,4 and More 4 from the FTA stable.

What has also not been included here among others is BBCi screens and indeed the HD channels which are also FTA.