Mc Elliffe - Elliffe

bellapip

I am going to die of exhaustion sitting at this computer.

I am trying to find any known relatives of my mum in law.
She was born 19-04-1939 at 265 lansdowne road, which we believe was called St. Louise's Nursing home (but we have nothing to back that up). Her mother is listed as Olive Mary Mc Elliffe, however on the baptismal certificate some four days later she is listed as Josephine Mc Elliffe.

I have looked everywhere, and while there is a big Elliffe contingent in Westmeath, there is no listing for Mc Elliffe.

I have found an Emmet Mc Elliffe 1882 in New York, but its is on one of those sites that asks for your details 100 times and I am not getting anywhere with that.

My mum in law is now 72, and while she is still a stunner, she has sort of lost her verve a little and I know having some sort of blood connection in the world would make a huge impact on her life.

Present at the birth of My mum in law, who was christined Oliva Maria Mc Elliffe, but was renamed Olive Mary Turvey by her adopted parents, was a woman by the name of Angela Heaney.

If anyone could just nudge me in the correct direction, as sitting at this computer is torture.

Many thanks

Bella.:D

shanew

Are you sure the address on the birth cert is 265 Lansdowne Road ?

From the details I see listed in Thom '38 and '49 the numbers on the road run from 1 to 62... so there's no 265..


Shane

johnny_doyle

any chance of uploading a scan of the birth/baptism certificates?

the electoral register for Dublin 1939/40 is online at dublinheritage.ie. No sign of an Angela Heaney and Lansdowne Road only lists up to number 73.

johnny_doyle

the following site has a guide to Tracing :

http://www.adoption.ie/

Every local authority should have a register of maternity homes. Dublin City Council might be a contact point to check the names of old maternity homes

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1934/en/act/pub/0014/sec0003.html#zza14y1934s3


based on the 1911 census, there only seem to be Elliffe's in Westmeath (even the one in Dublin and the one in Wicklow were born Co Westmeath).

Presumably you've seen the inactive Elliffe mailing list?

http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/th/index/ELLIFFE


A check of the phone book :

http://www.eircomphonebook.ie

found 3 Elliffe's in Dublin and 9 in Co Westmeath. Mc Elliffe was "corrected" to Elliffe by the website....

bellapip

Thank you all,

I have tried and found most of those avenues,.,

The only thing I was not aware of was the Lansdowne rd thing, and that could be very pertinent.
It was apparantley St. Louises Nursing home according to Park House.

Going to get back onto them for the sake of sureity.

Thanks a mill, Will update later, I haven't left the computer for hours and hours and my head is mush.
Need coffee, fresh air and chocolate.

Thanks, really.

Bella.

Ponster

I'd just like to get a few things straight.

Present at the birth of My mum in law, who was christined Oliva Maria Mc Elliffe, but was renamed Olive Mary Turvey by her adopted parents, was a woman by the name of Angela Heaney.

According to the civil registration she was "Olive M McElliffe" and not Olivia (not that it makes a lot of difference).
Olive Mary McElliffe was born in April 1939. On the birth cert her mum is also listed as a "McElliffe" and then you mention that she was adopted.

Is it possible that she was born out of wedlock and forced to give up the child?
If that is the case then can we be 100% sure that McElliffe was really her mothers name?

pinkypinky

bellapip wrote: »

The only thing I was not aware of was the Lansdowne rd thing, and that could be very pertinent.
It was apparantley St. Louises Nursing home according to Park House.

What is Park House?

Have you tried alternative spellings of the surname? Like McAuliffe?

bellapip

She was registered to her birth mum, who to our knowlege was Olive McElliffe.
However, she was issued a second birth cert which was then in the name of Olive Mary Turvey.

As adoption did not come in until 1952 she was just registered with the health board and removed from their care in 1948. However they have not been able to provide any further information on this case either.

Bella.

PS: No can not be sure that her mother gave the correct name and if she didn't then we could be barking up the wrong tree forever.
That said, her REAL mum did keep an eye on what went on with Olive over the years and when Olive won the miss Mosney 1958 her mum sent her a letter of congrats but Olive's adopted mother destroyed it. Olive also modelled for Furriers and featured in a number of newspaper photographs and her Mum sent her a letter about these but again it was destroyed by Olive's adopted mum.
The information only came to light when her adopted mum was ill and dying, but she would not give her any other information on her birth.

johnny_doyle

can I ask what the Miss Mosney competition is/was?

Olive Elliffe is a bit of a tongue twister (for me at least). Speculation, but possibly the birth mother chose Olive as a forename as this is potentially the nearest Christian name to Elliffe knowing that the surname would be changed.

Presumably the birth mother didn't know the Turvey's address and that any letters were forwarded through the "adoption agency"?

In the electoral roll, Charles H Turvey and Eileen (Ellen?/Nelly) Turvey were living at 54 Goldenbridge Avenue, Kilmainham.

Was Charles born in London, circa 1895?

bellapip

Hey Johhny,

God you are good,. LOL

Ok to start at the top.

Olive (MY MUM IN LAW) was advertised in the national newspaper of the time, (this information was given to her by her step sister who was 16 when Olive arrived in the house).
The advert read : Beautiful baby girl, 9 days old needs good catholic home.
We have searched but there does not appear to be a record of this.
The local priest and the local doctor then organised the child to be brought to the Turveys. The mum herself brought the baby to the Turveys again that is what Olives step sister told her.

A lot of people have obviously passed away, and years ago when Olive did broach the subject with her adoptive mother Nelly (you are bang on on that) she was told not to ask questions, and she didn't.
Unfortunately her sister Kathleen died without giving up any more information, but to be honest Olive always felt Kathleen just didn't have any more info.
A brother of Kathleen Edward died refusing to speak of the matter.

Mosney, was the Irish Butlins, and like Butlins in the UK they ran a lovely legs and a lovely hair, Glamorous Granny all the usual. Olive, who was then modelling and just a year away from marrying, won the title in 1958 and her mother saw this in the newspapers.
Nelly kept this from Olive, but when Nelly died Olive found a part of the note and a po box listed as Lislea post office in Newry.
The post office has long gone and a multitude of phone calls to that area turned up nothing.

Olives mother did ask that Olive was christened as Olivia Maria, apparantely after her mothers family members, but again this is part of the hearsay.
I have found a huge number of Elliffes, and they do list Olivia's Maria's, and Olive's and Mary's in their line, but I do not know that this is enough to be conclusive.
I grabbed bull by horns earlier and made a few phone calls and now its a case of wait and see.
I don't really know where else I can go.
My sister in law Susan is due to talk about it on the Joe Duffy show (national radio show) next week, but that will just be in the hope that Olives birth mother at some point told someone what happened.

Thanks a million for the information, I will take any and all help, if only so that I can get out of this house before I become a chapter of 'Great Expectations.'

Thanks to you all for the advice.

Bella,.

pinkypinky

What day on Joe Duffy? I'll try to listen.

johnny_doyle

if you do get on the Joe Duffy show, get him to throw the gauntlet down to some of the professional genealogists to solve this ;-)

Seriously though, this is such a fab story/quest that hopefully media exposure will come up with the answer.

this won't help your quest but might be of interest

http://www.nationalarchives.ie/search/index.php?simpleSearchSbm=true&searchDescTxt=Turvey

I'll PM you with a very vague hunch.

johnny_doyle

pinkypinky wrote: »

What is Park House?

I think this is the Park House being referred to :

http://www.adoptionloss.ie/agencies.htm

St. Louise’s Adoption Agency,
First Floor,
Park House,
North Circular Road,
Dublin 7.
Tel: (01) 838 7122
Note: St. Louise’s is run by the Eastern Regional Health Authority

pinkypinky

johnny_doyle wrote: »

if you do get on the Joe Duffy show, get him to throw the gauntlet down to some of the professional genealogists to solve this ;-)

Seriously though, this is such a fab story/quest that hopefully media exposure will come up with the answer.

Pro genealogists usually shy away from adoption cases - the one I know says that it requires specialised knowledge that they usually don't have.

johnny_doyle

pinkypinky wrote: »

Pro genealogists usually shy away from adoption cases - the one I know says that it requires specialised knowledge that they usually don't have.

ditto for amateur genealogists......

AFAIK the agencies won't deal with anyone other than the people directly involved in an adoption case.

Today would have been the 34th birthday of my adopted cousin Lorna Sweeney (30/7/1976 - 11/5/1999).

bellapip

I just wanted to post a thank you to you all for the advice and information that you have, without question supplied here.
You have all been fantastic, Johnny you have been super fantastic.
I spoke to a priest today who may or may not have officiated at the funeral of the woman I think could have been my Mum in laws mum, sadly he had no key to any closets.
I have done a massive amount of poking today and made a number of phone calls,. But like I told Johnny if we are working with the wrong name then we will be forever barking up the wrong tree.

There is just one thing that I can not seem to figure out so if anyone can help it is this.
How do I find out if there was a 265 lansdowne road. I tried today and phoned the central library as they house the electoral register (nothing comes up on that but 20% is still missing for 1939) they did not seem able to give me a straight answer.
I could get in the car and drive to Dublin, but even I know it is a little different now to how it was in 1939.
So is there something I can look up?

Thanks again folks, you have made this experience a lot more enjoyable, I am used to research, but never for the real world, it is so much harder when you can't just climb over the brick walls,.

XXXX

Bella.:D

shanew

the numbers on Lansdowne Rd are about the same between 1927 and 1949 - i.e. 1 to 70 ish. The only sign of a nursing home is in the 1927 edition.

listings for Lansdowne Rd (from Pembroke Rd to Lansdowne Rd Railway Station)

Thom's 1927

numbers 1 to 71
57 H.R.S. Montgomery LRCPI (doctor)
61a Private nursing home - Miss Carre, Ivanhoe

Thom's 1938

numbers 1 to 73
doctor is at the same address
no sign of the nursing home..

Thom's 1949

numbers 1 to 73
doctor is at the same address
no sign of the nursing home..

The same numbers apply up until the 1970s at least


Shane

shanew

link to Lansdowne Rd on the modern OSI maps - http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,717748,732961,7 (click the street map beta option or press 1 to see the modern map)

Part of the road caption seems to be missing, but Lansdowne Road is the road running from the bottom left, up to the the centre of the screen and then right.

You can see the house numbers on the north side of the road running from about 16 for the first stretch and 46 after the Shelbourne Rd junction. Much of the southside of the road was redeveloped and is now hotels (Berkley Court etc)

p.s. what's the informant's name, qualification and residence on the birth cert ?


Shane

bellapip

The informant is listed as present at birth,. Angela Heaney. No record of her, baring the fact that there are a family of Heaneys on the same road as the adopted parents in 1939???? however no Angela. I think I am seeing conspiracy theories everywhere at this stage.

Going to try and upload the birth cert, thought I had it sussed earlier, until I realized the question would appear to be, the name and address of the witness to the birth, but on the other side of the birth cert long form it says place of birth which is still listed as 265 lansdowne road.

I do feel I have chased this until I get some feedback based on Olives mother being Josephine, however if this was the case Josephine would have been 23 when she gave birth. What do you think? In 1939 would that would have been such a massive scandal???
If it was Josephine, then I have covered that path, and I know where it leads. If not then I have no idea where to go. Bed seems like an option,. LOL>. Going to try and attach forms.,

You are brill folks, and so is Saint Nescafe and Sir Smirnoff for keeping me alive/awake..

Bella,. :D

shanew

district is Crumlin ??

I would think Donnybrook district for THE Lansdowne road... is there another one ?


Shane

bellapip

Hey Folks,

If anyone is here can I pick the grey matter again?

Is it possible to get marriage records online for the last 50 years?

Thanks

Bella

shanew

The familysearch BMD Index only goes up to 1958, and the full details are not online -you have to order the certs from the GRO to see the details. Parish records on web systems generally include details up to about 1900.

You might find marriage details in newspapers - several are available online on subscription websites - Irish Times, Irish News Archives (Indo etc)


Shane

bellapip

Thanks Shane,.

Feels like the bit between me teeth is going to snap if I don't get to see what I want,. Contemplating a break in at Joyce house at this stage,. LOL.

I will chance the newspapers first though just to be on the safe side.

Thanks for all the help.

Bella,.

shanew

I can have a quick search for you if you want to give me some details...



Shane

pinkypinky

bellapip wrote: »

Thanks Shane,.

Feels like the bit between me teeth is going to snap if I don't get to see what I want,. Contemplating a break in at Joyce house at this stage,. LOL.

Joyce House won't do you any good. The GRO research room moved to the Irish Life Mall on Abbey St in 2008! I've often been tempted to get in and use their computers myself!!