Suitable Throws/Takedowns For Tall People

flynny51

I'm about 6'6, 6'7. I know I should be able to do any of the techniques but obviously some will suit me better (where I don't have to get too far under the opponents hips).

I find Seoi Nage to be ok when used with kuzushi and also O Uchi Gari is an obvious one. Looking at videos of other techniques, these look like they'd be suitable:

Koshi Guruma, Harai Goshi, O Guruma, Tai Otoshi, Uchi Mata.

Any tall folk out there that find any particular techniques more comfortable / effective?

Thanks

arybvtcw0eolkf

Have you tried a Soto Makikomi - its one which is often overlooked and is a powerful throw, esp. for a big man like yourself coming over the top.

If you like uchi Mata, Harai Gosho & Osoto Gari I'd strongly recommend you purchase Kosei Inoue's DVD boxset from Fighting Films..

How long are you training Judo?.

I'm guessing its not too long since we haven't crossed paths?

flynny51

Thanks Makikomi,

We haven't crossed paths because I'm doing German Jujutsu, 2 years now. My sensei has a background in Judo and Aikido too so what we practice is a blend of Aikido joint manipulation, Judo, Jujutsu self defence, throws, locks, strikes, ne-waza and the odd bit of weapons training.

The DVD looks good, I'll check it out. Also I was only asking my sensei about Soto Makikomi tonight, hopefully we'll practice it soon.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Sorry for the short reply last night. I was just finishing up online when I seen your post.

First off I should congratulate you on being able to use Seoi Nage at 6'7'' :eek:

What club are you training at?.

Like I said, the Soto Makikomi would be a hugely powerful throw for such a big man, but without looking at you its hard to say what throw's would suit.

But you've probably heard it said, most judoka will have at best two or three major throws with which they score with any kind of success. But they'd have a bigger arsenal of smaller throw's to set up their opponents.

Speaking from personal experience it took me a long time to get comfortable with using combinations in Judo, ie Ouchi Gari into Harai Goshi/Osoto Gari (for example).

Maybe our new member 'Wild Geese Judo' can chime in with his expertise, he's one of the major contributors to my judo over the last few years.

Burnt

Hi Flynny51

Makkikomi has put forward some good pointers Uchi Mata - Harai Goshi - O Soto Gari is a nice set and if it's good enough for Inoue why not

In addition might I sugguest that Sasae Tsuri Komi Ashi works well with O Soto Gari, for Uke the first step has a similar sort of feel and it mixes things
up nicely.

Also Deashi Barai and then stepping across into either Harai Goshi or Tai Otoshi I find works well.

pearsquasher

Rather than specific throws, some general principles of throwing might be worth considering:

1. Can you comfortably squat with both feet under your hips, no wider, and your back straight? This hip flexibility is important for classical jujutsu (e.g. bujinkan) throws.

2. Your longer legs can upset balance - kazushi - by bisecting the attackers stance... useful for you to use.

3. Strike before you throw for extra kazushi leverage..... small weapons are useful too.

Burnt

pearsquasher wrote: »

1. Can you comfortably squat with both feet under your hips, no wider, and your back straight? This hip flexibility is important for classical jujutsu (e.g. bujinkan) throws.

Hi Pearsquasher, sometimes the varity of name between various arts etc... can lead to confusion.

Here is a video of Seoi Nage as demonstrated by shozo fuji: http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=iL71nZy0r1I

If Flynny52 can perfrom this at 6'6" I feel that his flexibility should be pretty good

flynny51

Thanks for all the replies, I'll look into all the recommendations.

I can squat with feet hip-width apart, I have to during training but my legs get very tired.

Niall Keane

We'd often apply throws using the following leverage/ breaking of structure technique. A hand is used to slap / strike and adhere to the face coming from inside the heal of the palm lifts the chin the space between index and long finger used to close nose and so the palm covers mouth. The index and long finger are used to seek the eye socket area. So you in effect smother and blind the opponent temporarily. You probably won't get everything sometimes the mouth being covered the chin lifted and the nose shut by the thumb and Han space will do. Outside a chop type palm strike is used tithe mouth-chin area. At this stage in both cases the legs are sweeping in an opposite direction as your palm is used to rotate his face skin around his skull, not literally but it's the best way to differenciate this from chopping or pushing through the head which is bad as it loses out on the breaking of spinal structure and therefore better leverage, often provoking a strong structural reaction that will hold down or counter the throw.
From my experience taller persons with greater reach have an advantage here. Smaller oppnenta tend to need to slip in to the side to achieve the range and position to reach this technique.
Though I guess this might be frowned upon in many sports?

lukeyjudo

My advice and coaching methods for taller/bigger people can be summed up by the following strategy

Take top grip => Smash

Take about three big throws that suit you, practice them and their combinations against resisting opponents, and bring them to a level of mastery.. you may even make it as an international judoka!

Good luck

flynny51

Niall Keane wrote: »

We'd often apply throws using the following leverage/ breaking of structure technique. A hand is used to slap / strike and adhere to the face coming from inside the heal of the palm lifts the chin the space between index and long finger used to close nose and so the palm covers mouth. The index and long finger are used to seek the eye socket area. So you in effect smother and blind the opponent temporarily. You probably won't get everything sometimes the mouth being covered the chin lifted and the nose shut by the thumb and Han space will do. Outside a chop type palm strike is used tithe mouth-chin area. At this stage in both cases the legs are sweeping in an opposite direction as your palm is used to rotate his face skin around his skull, not literally but it's the best way to differenciate this from chopping or pushing through the head which is bad as it loses out on the breaking of spinal structure and therefore better leverage, often provoking a strong structural reaction that will hold down or counter the throw.
From my experience taller persons with greater reach have an advantage here. Smaller oppnenta tend to need to slip in to the side to achieve the range and position to reach this technique.
Though I guess this might be frowned upon in many sports?

lol yea it would probably be frowned upon We actually practice what you're describing a lot in self defence training. There's a number of different techniques. We don't go for the eyes too though, just push upward underneath the nose to rotate the head. It's very very uncomfortable when done correctly!

Niall Keane

It would be used alot in Sanshou where the 10 ounce glove adds to the suffocation effect. another reason for the long guard (besides suitability for kick takedowns) and following through with punches rather than always reflexing them back to guard. you'll see this tendency critizised in a lot of you tube vids as poor boxing skills by those totally unaware of this technique.

If you're not allowed use it, at times in Chinese wrestling I wasn't, so I'd modify instead to cut across the chest with forearms from say lower right pectorial to left shoulder, again resulting in twsting up his spinal alignment and so breaking structure, it has a similar effect to the face technique above though not as easy. Again range can be advantagous in any such throwing technique that manipulates the upper torso.
Sending his feet in a different direction to the upper technique, with a sweep or scoop rather then a trip will usually set him up to fall hard. Ie your hands could be acting in concord as opposite ends of a lever one as above the other trapping / pulling the hips from behind. so you have a circular force being applied north - south so to speak. Now a standard trip nortth to south will put him down, but scooping his legs away with one of yours rising east to west adds a lifting twist to the throw, when done right, his legs end up in the air and he'll land on his neck / back.

difficult to explain these without visual references. If you know them, I talking about "single sweep lotus leg", "step back and repulse the monkey", and "extend the hands" Tai Chi Chuan techniques?

flynny51

Haven't had a chance to try a lot of these techniques, as I don't really want to be asking my sensei can we do this or that.

I've been watching judo / wrestling and MMA takedowns and throws to the point where I know at what second he does what etc. We did randori tonight for the first time in a while (we've been doing a lot of basics lately as we have some new comers). Anyway, tonight I landed a soto makikomi very comfortably. Definitely one I'll be trying again.

Will report back on some of the others when I try them

arybvtcw0eolkf

flynny51 wrote: »

Haven't had a chance to try a lot of these techniques, as I don't really want to be asking my sensei can we do this or that.

I've been watching judo / wrestling and MMA takedowns and throws to the point where I know at what second he does what etc. We did randori tonight for the first time in a while (we've been doing a lot of basics lately as we have some new comers). Anyway, tonight I landed a soto makikomi very comfortably. Definitely one I'll be trying again.

Will report back on some of the others when I try them

Just a point re. Soto Makikomi - be careful against beginners with it. Its not the most supple of throws/take downs (or in the case of Soto Makikomi - drag downs )

I've had big strong lads catch me with it and for a second or two I'd swear my arm has been broken or ripped from my shoulder