Should we revolt???

twitch1984

Just a quick question to see what peoples opinions are.
If the government hit the social budget again(the poorer people in society) should we as a nation stand up and be counted while these fat cats live the high life?????

Vorsprung

What exactly do you propose?

Elevator

I'm in

charlemont

yes its about time we did something, they ruined the country.......

danbohan

twitch1984 wrote: »

Just a quick question to see what peoples opinions are.
If the government hit the social budget again(the poorer people in society) should we as a nation stand up and be counted while these fat cats live the high life?????

good man , we are right behind you !

Denerick

Why am I so smugly confident that this 'revolt' will end up with a few commie kids trying to charge the Dáil, while most reasonable people scoff at the hysteria of it all?

Please do revolt. Conversation does run dry in the pub sometimes.

dan_d

oohhh......yes.
But not if they hit the social welfare budget. If they throw more money at the banks. THEN we should revolt.

twitch1984

Denerick wrote: »

Why am I so smugly confident that this 'revolt' will end up with a few commie kids trying to charge the Dáil, while most reasonable people scoff at the hysteria of it all?

Please do revolt. Conversation does run dry in the pub sometimes.

this is the exact reason why people dont stand up and be counted, its because any normal protest gets highjacked by the above mentioned yobs.
I propose if at all possible run ordinary non party affiliated people against some of the major names during the next election, examine the constitution closely an dfind any little thing no matter how small to try get this government to look after ALL its citizens not just the wealthy ones

Basically just make a general nuisance of ourselves until they listen to the people, the people who make this country a great place for all.

OK Im down off my soapbox now

deise go deo

twitch1984 wrote: »

this is the exact reason why people dont stand up and be counted, its because any normal protest gets highjacked by the above mentioned yobs.
I propose if at all possible run ordinary non party affiliated people against some of the major names during the next election, examine the constitution closely an dfind any little thing no matter how small to try get this government to look after ALL its citizens not just the wealthy ones

Basically just make a general nuisance of ourselves until they listen to the people, the people who make this country a great place for all.

OK Im down off my soapbox now

There is a new ''Reform Party'' that is planning this.

Denerick

twitch1984 wrote: »

this is the exact reason why people dont stand up and be counted, its because any normal protest gets highjacked by the above mentioned yobs.
I propose if at all possible run ordinary non party affiliated people against some of the major names during the next election, examine the constitution closely an dfind any little thing no matter how small to try get this government to look after ALL its citizens not just the wealthy ones

Basically just make a general nuisance of ourselves until they listen to the people, the people who make this country a great place for all.

OK Im down off my soapbox now

No, do stay up on your soapbox. You are a citizen after all

I, for one, would love to see a constitutional convention within the next five years. Not only to reform our economic regulations but completely re-write the constitution and repeal many of our libel laws, and generally any regulation that is repressing the due process of critical investigation and analysis. I know of at least one journalist who simply cannot publish what he knows because he'll end up facing 500k in legal fees. How can we renew our system when investigative journalism comes at such a risk???

yermanoffthetv

Ok, you guys go storm the Dail. Ill stay here and provide sniper cover with my mind bullits.:pac:

twitch1984

Denerick wrote: »

No, do stay up on your soapbox. You are a citizen after all

I, for one, would love to see a constitutional convention within the next five years. Not only to reform our economic regulations but completely re-write the constitution and repeal many of our libel laws, and generally any regulation that is repressing the due process of critical investigation and analysis. I know of at least one journalist who simply cannot publish what he knows because he'll end up facing 500k in legal fees. How can we renew our system when investigative journalism comes at such a risk???

Very good idea the only problem is the government would problably try do it behind closed doors and write a new constitution worded so that no ordinary humin being could understand it

PomBear

Denerick and yermanoffthetv are prime examples why the FF government have seen half a million go on the dole, billions given to the banks and see the country economicaly ruined and will see out their full term with no reprecussions and their pockets will be lined with backhanders. Pathetic really

Denerick

PomBear wrote: »

Denerick and yermanoffthetv are prime examples why the FF government have seen half a million go on the dole, billions given to the banks and see the country economicaly ruined and will see out their full term with no reprecussions and their pockets will be lined with backhanders. Pathetic really

I love you too

yermanoffthetv

PomBear wrote: »

Denerick and yermanoffthetv are prime examples why the FF government have seen half a million go on the dole, billions given to the banks and see the country economicaly ruined and will see out their full term with no reprecussions and their pockets will be lined with backhanders. Pathetic really

Eh no. Firstly I always use my vote :cool: Just because Im not out with the crusties causing a nuisance and givin some guard a big overtime cheque does not mean im apathetic.

Everyone knows the rotten structure we have in the state, if you have a constructive proposal for reform then Ill gladely listen to you. If not then sorry, I dont want Ireland to end up like Greece where the lazy tradeunionists will go on all out strike if you even mention talking away their biccies at tea break.

Liam Byrne

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

I dont want Ireland to end up like Greece where the lazy tradeunionists will go on all out strike if you even mention talking away their biccies at tea break.

How about Ireland where TDs and Senators throw a strop and claim they're being bullied when you try to complain about or take away the expenses that they've defrauded from the state, and all their buddies back them to the hilt ?

yermanoffthetv

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How about Ireland where TDs and Senators throw a strop and claim they're being bullied when you try to complain about or take away the expenses that they've defrauded from the state, and all their buddies back them to the hilt ?

Then when they come knocking at your door at election time tell them your not best pleased. Flood their office with letters of complaint. Go on local radio,write to the news papers, call the tv stations, put flyers in the letterboxes if you want. Theres plenty of things you can do to show your dissapproval, scrapping with guards outside Leinster house should not be one of them.

Edit: Ill add to that by saying, politicans are by their nature self serving. If the actions of one will have a negative impact on either themselves or their party youll soon see they wont have their back for long. The system NEEDS to be drasticly reformed I dont question that. But causing a ruckus for the sake of it will achieve nothing at the end of the day.

Ren2k7

The problem with ireland is how politicians regard their job as for life, or as a career. They go into politics as a way of improving their own standard of living and once out of office living off a big, fat pension.

A new constitution is what is needed. The one we have now is a relic of a radically different era and has no place in a modern, 21st century republic. A new constitution should have term limits for all public officials including td's, councillors and judges, a simplified and reformed judicial system (get rid of the bar council, kings inn and other antiques from the days of british rule such as them stupid wigs) and abolish the seanad unless it has genuine legislative powers and not as a club for failed td's.

hitbit

I agree but we would need to dig up Mick Collins to lead us because there's no one else. We Irish have a history of being ruled over and so have evolved to like others telling us what to do, tipping the cap mentality, We had the English who DeValera replaced with the Church followed by the EU. There have been countless times when we had the opportunity to take to the streets and confront a worthless Fianna Fiddle party who blatantly ignored the wishes of the people, Lisbon, Fianna Fiddle lose and we have a second vote, Fianna Fiddle win, no second vote ????. The dirty filthy f****** in the church whom Fianna Fiddle did their utmost best to defend while putting their victims through hell (The scumbag compensation board treat the innocent victims as if they were the guilty ones). A man who works with my wife got a p*** €40,000 for years of rape and beatings. He said he was sorry he ever complained as the board were disgustingly hostile to him and made him feel like the guilty party. He gave the lot to charity, fair play to him. The gangster Bankers and Builders whom Fianna Fiddle are protecting like a mother hen. The politicians found guilty of drunken driving, assault, theft etc whom Fianna Fiddle defended on the ah sure anyone can make a mistake he's really a lovely lad so we'll let him off with a little smack on the a*** followed by the application of tons of cold cream. Lawlor got a time delay on prison so he could take his holliers for f*** sake. Redmond openly laughed at us. The average citizen gets caught without a TV licence and the Fiddlers are calling for disembowelment. I could go on and on but suffice to say we are not the French we are the submissive Irish who prefare to watch, moan and tut tut. ie The Irish reaction to being served crap food is to say nothing and console themselves with the old " we won't come here again s****. The French would shove the crap food up the chef's. So we will moan about losing our homes, jobs and having to suffer a huge drop in our standard of living as Fianna Fiddle STEAL our money to bale their cronies out and allow them stay cozy in their multi million euro palaces. Ah yes we will moan but we will do nothing because we are nothing, nothing at all.

PPP
Previously Proud Paddy

Setanta1974

You totally hit the nail on the head hitbit. Couldn't have said it better myself

Hazlittle

I want a revolution but to end all the social programs.

mikemac

hitbit wrote: »

The politicians found guilty of drunken driving, assault, theft etc

I missed that story, who was found guilty of assault?
Politicians do lots of things but I never heard of this assault case

AssertiveAction

feelingstressed wrote: »

I missed that story, who was found guilty of assault?
Politicians do lots of things but I never heard of this assault case

I think Frank Fahy was is in a scuffle with somebody from FG but it was just rumoured not reported

mecanoman

No. one new rule in the "New Dail" if we did revolt.

No family Dynasty, arsehole kids following their arsehole fathers

"career" they want to carry on the fine work their parent started!

Robbing, fidding, backhanders etc. Sickening me, shower of *****!

mikemac

mecanoman wrote: »

No family Dynasty, arsehole kids following their arsehole fathers

"career" they want to carry on the fine work their parent started!

Robbing, fidding, backhanders etc. Sickening me, shower of *****!

Politicians are hardly unique for that.
Sure many tradesmen are following their family business and certainly that area is where most cash in hand jobs with a nudge and wink go on.

Publicans, teachers, soldiers, doctors, lots of people follow the family tradition

If a son or daughter of a politician wants to be elected, they do the same election as anybody else.
If you're a better candidate then them they apply for it or find someone you want

the_dark_side

I can think of one simple way to cause a grand scale headache for the government. If evryone emptied their deposit accounts and savings account. Go into the bank and withdraw every last cent, then do the same with the post offices and Credit Unions... go over the border and lodge it in the north... and collectively ignore their hollow threats of prosecution over off shore, bogus non resident accounts etc. Pretty soon the security forces in the reublic will be on the side of the common man... so the government will be powerless.. simple as that

jordan..

the revolution starts tonight!

Rockery Woman

Irish people never revolt - we just whine about it but never take action - if we were French we would bring the country to a standstill......:(

Iwasfrozen

Rockery Woman wrote: »

Irish people never revolt - we just whine about it but never take action - if we were French we would bring the country to a standstill......:(

Be glad we're not the French. The French economy is taking a bashing due to their poor industrial relations image.

zuroph

Come on everybody, to the biscuit factories!

Rockery Woman

zuroph wrote: »

Come on everybody, to the biscuit factories!

I will in me Jacobs!

Shea O'Meara

feelingstressed wrote: »

Politicians are hardly unique for that.
Sure many tradesmen are following their family business and certainly that area is where most cash in hand jobs with a nudge and wink go on.

Publicans, teachers, soldiers, doctors, lots of people follow the family tradition

Publicans, teachers, soldiers and doctors are not paid to run your country on your behalf.

feelingstressed wrote: »

If a son or daughter of a politician wants to be elected, they do the same election as anybody else.
If you're a better candidate then them they apply for it or find someone you want

And the family name and party connections carry no sway?

GarlicBread

A revolt sounds good but a general election sounds just as good and would have a similar effect. Problem is we are unable to trigger an election cause the current crowd are dug in so we have to wait for over another year.

Its painful to think of how much more damage can be caused in that period but there dosent look like any alternative other than waiting.

Iwasfrozen

GarlicBread wrote: »

A revolt sounds good but a general election sounds just as good and would have a similar effect. Problem is we are unable to trigger an election cause the current crowd are dug in so we have to wait for over another year.

Its painful to think of how much more damage can be caused in that period but there dosent look like any alternative other than waiting.

I hate to be the person to burst your bubble but the other crowd are just as bad. I advise emigrating.

dsmythy

When you are complaining about politicans you are complaining about people who elected them. You can wheel out the word 'banker' and 'fatcats' all you want but at the end of the day this is what we have voted for and what we are getting. The best revolt is the one in the ballot box.

Fighting Irish

social welfare needs to be cut, €200 a week is crazy money

charlemont

Fighting Irish wrote: »

social welfare needs to be cut, €200 a week is crazy money

try living on it you dick head, actually its 196 weekly im paying 45 rent out of it so im left on 151 a week iv airtricity and car insurance to pay clothes kids school books etc , ya smart ass .. it would be crazy money if our country didnt have crazy prices ...it cause of ignorants like you our country is so badly run..

Hazlittle

charlemont wrote: »

try living on it you dick head, actually its 196 weekly im paying 45 rent out of it so im left on 151 a week iv airtricity and car insurance to pay clothes kids school books etc , ya smart ass .. it would be crazy money if our country didnt have crazy prices ...it cause of ignorants like you our country is so badly run..

Not my fault you had kids.

twitch1984

Fighting Irish wrote: »

social welfare needs to be cut, €200 a week is crazy money

You obviously have'nt tried living on it for a while.

dan_d

hitbit wrote: »

I agree but we would need to dig up Mick Collins to lead us because there's no one else. We Irish have a history of being ruled over and so have evolved to like others telling us what to do, tipping the cap mentality, We had the English who DeValera replaced with the Church followed by the EU. There have been countless times when we had the opportunity to take to the streets and confront a worthless Fianna Fiddle party who blatantly ignored the wishes of the people, Lisbon, Fianna Fiddle lose and we have a second vote, Fianna Fiddle win, no second vote ????. The dirty filthy f****** in the church whom Fianna Fiddle did their utmost best to defend while putting their victims through hell (The scumbag compensation board treat the innocent victims as if they were the guilty ones). A man who works with my wife got a p*** €40,000 for years of rape and beatings. He said he was sorry he ever complained as the board were disgustingly hostile to him and made him feel like the guilty party. He gave the lot to charity, fair play to him. The gangster Bankers and Builders whom Fianna Fiddle are protecting like a mother hen. The politicians found guilty of drunken driving, assault, theft etc whom Fianna Fiddle defended on the ah sure anyone can make a mistake he's really a lovely lad so we'll let him off with a little smack on the a*** followed by the application of tons of cold cream. Lawlor got a time delay on prison so he could take his holliers for f*** sake. Redmond openly laughed at us. The average citizen gets caught without a TV licence and the Fiddlers are calling for disembowelment. I could go on and on but suffice to say we are not the French we are the submissive Irish who prefare to watch, moan and tut tut. ie The Irish reaction to being served crap food is to say nothing and console themselves with the old " we won't come here again s****. The French would shove the crap food up the chef's. So we will moan about losing our homes, jobs and having to suffer a huge drop in our standard of living as Fianna Fiddle STEAL our money to bale their cronies out and allow them stay cozy in their multi million euro palaces. Ah yes we will moan but we will do nothing because we are nothing, nothing at all.

PPP
Previously Proud Paddy

Even the french realised they couldn't let their betters get away with that and....voila!Madame la Guillotine!

I don't deny you're right, but things need to change, and now's as good a time as any.

Coillte_Bhoy

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Publicans, teachers, soldiers and doctors are not paid to run your country on your behalf.


And the family name and party connections carry no sway?

Of course they do but you cant go proscribing people form standing for election because of their family background ffs.

Fighting Irish

charlemont wrote: »

try living on it you dick head, actually its 196 weekly im paying 45 rent out of it so im left on 151 a week iv airtricity and car insurance to pay clothes kids school books etc , ya smart ass .. it would be crazy money if our country didnt have crazy prices ...it cause of ignorants like you our country is so badly run..

It's not the countries fault you had kids and ****

Fighting Irish

twitch1984 wrote: »

You obviously have'nt tried living on it for a while.

I have, it's made to survive on, that's it, i survived easy but i don't have kids. Maybe people should start saving for a rainy day when they have jobs

Playboy

charlemont wrote: »

try living on it you dick head, actually its 196 weekly im paying 45 rent out of it so im left on 151 a week iv airtricity and car insurance to pay clothes kids school books etc , ya smart ass .. it would be crazy money if our country didnt have crazy prices ...it cause of ignorants like you our country is so badly run..

It is crazy money! Why do you expect people to subsidise your life? I work 50-60 hours a week and I cant afford to have a car or kids. Why do I need to pay for your car and kids out of money I earned? What planet are people like you living on. People in England get £60 a week dole money compared to your €200! I'm sorry if you lost a job or never had a job in the first place... life must be tough but €200 is fantastic compared to most countries in the world. Do you not get childrens allowance, rent allowance and free medical on top of that €200 and get to put your name on a housing list? Do you not also a fuel allowance in Winter?


People talking about revolting should wake up... You are as bad as the moaners in Greece. People who study hard, work hard, and make intelligent decisions about their career and lives generally get rewarded. We live in a capitalist society... why should wealthy people feel guilty about earning more and end up paying extorinate amounts of tax so subsidise people who think society owes them something. Newsflash... the world or society doesnt owe you anything so try and get rid of your misguided sense of entitlement.

zuroph

I'm revolting. Haven't had a shower for 3 days.

Iwasfrozen

Playboy wrote: »

It is crazy money! Why do you expect people to subsidise your life? I work 50-60 hours a week and I cant afford to have a car or kids. Why do I need to pay for your car and kids out of money I earned?

Well if your working that long and can't afford a car or kids then you should either rethink your career or mortgage because one of them is fishy.

Playboy wrote: »

What planet are people like you living on. People in England get £60 a week dole money compared to your €200! I'm sorry if you lost a job or never had a job in the first place... life must be tough but €200 is fantastic compared to most countries in the world. Do you not get childrens allowance, rent allowance and free medical on top of that €200 and get to put your name on a housing list? Do you not also a fuel allowance in Winter?

Not everyone on social welfare gets those extra benifites.

Playboy wrote: »

People talking about revolting should wake up... You are as bad as the moaners in Greece. People who study hard, work hard, and make intelligent decisions about their career and lives generally get rewarded. We live in a capitalist society... why should wealthy people feel guilty about earning more and end up paying extorinate amounts of tax so subsidise people who think society owes them something. Newsflash... the world or society doesnt owe you anything so try and get rid of your misguided sense of entitlement.

And there's were you make the mistake by assuming that only hard work gets one to the top without any luck involved. Perhaps you should rephrase your question as "why should the lucky subsidise the unlucky?"

Doesn't sound as nice now, does it?

Playboy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well if your working that long and can't afford a car or kids then you should either rethink your career or mortgage because one of them is fishy.

I think I'm being prudent... not having kids until I am financially secure enough to afford to give them a good quality of life... its a pity more people dont do that instead of jumping in when they are too young and getting in over their heads financially.

I have a good career but trying to repay student debt plus save for a deposit on a house plus living in a very expensive city plus the cost of public travel is not cheap. Cars and kids are something I cant afford until later in my career. I work 50-60 hours per week in my career to try and move my career forward so I can afford cars & kids at some point in the future.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Not everyone on social welfare gets those extra benifites.

But the majority are or am I mistaken? The point remains that social welfare in Ireland is extremely generous in comparison to most western countries.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

And there's were you make the mistake by assuming that only hard work gets one to the top without any luck involved. Perhaps you should rephrase your question as "why should the lucky subsidise the unlucky?"

Doesn't sound as nice now, does it?

I'm not making any mistake. Most people who get ahead or get to the top have got there because of hard work. I think someone once said that the harder you work the luckier you get! Pure chance or luck accounts only for a tiny minority of people at the top apart from people who have inherited wealth. People who get ahead in their life you will find dont really entertain concepts such as lucky or unlucky... they usually believe that they are in control of their lives. People who dont get ahead like to blame the world around them for their circumstances... thats usually why they dont get ahead. I think the theory is known as locus of control See here

Rockery Woman

charlemont wrote: »

try living on it you dick head, actually its 196 weekly im paying 45 rent out of it so im left on 151 a week iv airtricity and car insurance to pay clothes kids school books etc , ya smart ass .. it would be crazy money if our country didnt have crazy prices ...it cause of ignorants like you our country is so badly run..

My other half was means tested and they gave him E94 per week - after working full time for 30 years its beyond a joke.

twitch1984

Playboy wrote: »

It is crazy money! Why do you expect people to subsidise your life? I work 50-60 hours a week and I cant afford to have a car or kids. Why do I need to pay for your car and kids out of money I earned? What planet are people like you living on. People in England get £60 a week dole money compared to your €200! I'm sorry if you lost a job or never had a job in the first place... life must be tough but €200 is fantastic compared to most countries in the world. Do you not get childrens allowance, rent allowance and free medical on top of that €200 and get to put your name on a housing list? Do you not also a fuel allowance in Winter?


People talking about revolting should wake up... You are as bad as the moaners in Greece. People who study hard, work hard, and make intelligent decisions about their career and lives generally get rewarded. We live in a capitalist society... why should wealthy people feel guilty about earning more and end up paying extorinate amounts of tax so subsidise people who think society owes them something. Newsflash... the world or society doesnt owe you anything so try and get rid of your misguided sense of entitlement.

Cost of living in england is only a fraction of here
No i dont get anything extra, I get a gp visit card which means i dont have to pay the doctor but have to pay for tablets, which are the dearest in europe
NO i dont get fuel allowance, i pay for my coal and blocks,

people have this perception that anyone on benifets have a great time, and yes some people do but alot of people were working up until the boom ended and still have loans and bills to pay. I want to work but every job i apply for is either gone or im told because i worked in the building industry i dont need it because i made enough during the boom which is bollix,

dont tar eveyrone with the same brush

aniaaneczka

Playboy wrote: »

People who study hard, work hard, and make intelligent decisions about their career and lives generally get rewarded. We live in a capitalist society...

playboy, people who study and work hard in greece, germany and in an increasing number of other places do work for 5-10 EUR an hour and are fired if they don't like or cannot work for 5 people. This is capitalism and its coming to Ireland right now as well.

Stop playing and stop being a boy. I bet you lived in your parents' house till you were 40 hence you continue to be out of touch with the reality.

aniaaneczka

Playboy wrote: »

rk. I think someone once said that the harder you work the luckier you get!

Sure. Thats why the Japanese have the highest suicide rate in the world. Well the chinese might join them soon with those factory workers killing themselves in big numbers (you've maybe heard of it, maybe not). In Europe we may face the same fate soon: you don't like working for 5 people on minimum wage, go kill yourself.

By the way, I'm not sure if you noticed: its not the rich subsidizing anyone, its us all the taxpayers subsidizing them. Ever heard of the bank bailouts? Get your facts right, boy.