vermin scoring

mairtd

does any body know the scoring system for vermin, for example
Mink 10 points fox 9 points etc etc,
Or what is even classed as vermin.

shaft666

Here in kerry it's as follows; Mink - 50 points. fox - 30 points. Grey crow & magpies - 10 points Think it's the same countrywide

The Big Fella

Is this to do with the gun club lads. Is it a bit of a competition?

shaft666

The Big Fella wrote: »

Is this to do with the gun club lads. Is it a bit of a competition?

Yes, most gun clubs run their own vermin competition and NARGC awards clubs financially depending on how many points they amass for vermin control.

bunny shooter

shaft666 wrote: »

Here in kerry it's as follows; Mink - 50 points. fox - 30 points. Grey crow & magpies - 10 points Think it's the same countrywide

Not in my part it's not

Every club does it their own way. We put more points on a grey squirrel as they are public enemy No. 1 at the moment

shaft666

bunny shooter wrote: »

Not in my part it's not

Every club does it their own way. We put more points on a grey squirrel as they are public enemy No. 1 at the moment

I stand corrected! Must vary from region to region then but the points I gave are correct for Kerry

Terrier

NARGC Galway score the following
Mink - 20
Fox -10
Grey - 8
Magpie - 8
Crow - 1
Jackdaw - 1
Pigeon - 1

One year it's straight up points, the second year it's a percentage of membership to give small clubs a chance and so on..

Local Club Castlegar won last year 2008\2009 with
17 Mink
446 Fox
445 Grey
443 Magpie

Total returns for Galway 2008\2009, which i believe won top county also.
236 Mink
2643 Fox
1959 Grey
2401 Mag
64 Pigeon
377 Rook
120 Jackdaw

Must clubs don't return crow\pigeon\jackdaws as the 1pt isn't worth the effort!
2009\2010 results on 20th August

ormondprop

ya the scores differ all over the country, a club near me had magpies and grey crows worth more than foxes last year to try clear them out as the place was alive with them

jap gt

is it tails and wings everywhere lads

Terrier

jap gt wrote: »

is it tails and wings everywhere lads

Full birds and tails

declan1980

full birds and full foxes and mink in our club. had a few lads comin in with a ridiculous amount of tails the year before last. knew they couldn't have got them all themselves

jap gt

declan1980 wrote: »

full birds and full foxes and mink in our club. had a few lads comin in with a ridiculous amount of tails the year before last. knew they couldn't have got them all themselves

where do ye keep the foxes and mink, wouldnt be much left come time for the count

Dusty87

Terrier wrote: »

Full birds and tails

I thought it was tails and wings of birds or heads of birds. Does it differ in each club??

declan1980 wrote: »

full birds and full foxes and mink in our club. had a few lads comin in with a ridiculous amount of tails the year before last. knew they couldn't have got them all themselves

Could they not now just get full bodys??

shaft666

tails and feet in kerry but over the border in cork its tails and wings.

mairtd

Thanks for all the help lads. We'll have to try give the castlegar lads a run for their money :D

Eddie B

shaft666 wrote: »

tails and feet in kerry but over the border in cork its tails and wings.

Whats the difference appearance wise, between Gray Crow feet and Rook feet!
Not a lot id say!

shaft666

Eddie B wrote: »

Whats the difference appearance wise, between Gray Crow feet and Rook feet!
Not a lot id say!

I've had that argument many a time! It does leave it open to abuse. Grey crows generally are bigger and there probably is some tiny difference between mags and rooks/jackdaws but by the time they've dried out for 6 months in someones shed I doubt its noticable

mike d 11111

maby if yoursely and raferty didnt miss so many ye might have won;););)

Dusty87

mike d 11111 wrote: »

maby if yoursely and raferty didnt miss so many ye might have won;););)

hoo hoo the newbie got balls

declan1980

jap gt wrote: »

where do ye keep the foxes and mink, wouldnt be much left come time for the count

we hand the bodies in to the club treasurer for proof, he takes off the wings and tails and we dump the bodies then

Feargal as Luimneach

With the risk of getting my head eaten off. The vermin scoring system can be abused. You can get people encouraged going out and wiping the likes of foxes totally out of an area. That ain't good:mad:

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

With the risk of getting my head eaten off. The vermin scoring system can be abused. You can get people encouraged going out and wiping the likes of foxes totally out of an area. That ain't good:mad:

I wouldn't worry m8 - At one stage in the 80's 30K fox skins a year were being shipped out from this country with little or no discernible affect on the overall population - The Red fox will always be with us, especially now since its thriving in urban and suburban areas.

PS: Recent studies suggest that the Red Fox is not actually a native mammal at all but a very ancient introduction. Probably around Roman times. So heavy shooting and trapping could be considered desirable from a conservation stand point. Though of course its no-where near as destructive to native flora and fauna as more recent introductions such as mink, grey squirrel and roach etc.

mairtd

declan1980 wrote: »

we hand the bodies in to the club treasurer for proof, he takes off the wings and tails and we dump the bodies then

For your club competition is it done on a total of what you hand in over the year or do you select one weekend of the year and count just what you shoot over those couple of days

shaft666

mairtd wrote: »

For your club competition is it done on a total of what you hand in over the year or do you select one weekend of the year and count just what you shoot over those couple of days

Our club bases it on what each member shoots/traps (or in some cases finds on the road or gets from their mates!) over the course of a calendar year

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

With the risk of getting my head eaten off. The vermin scoring system can be abused. You can get people encouraged going out and wiping the likes of foxes totally out of an area. That ain't good:mad:

Wiping out an area creates a vacuum.

mairtd

shaft666 wrote: »

Our club bases it on what each member shoots/traps (or in some cases finds on the road or gets from their mates!) over the course of a calendar year

yeah i think that is the best method , it keeps people interested the whole year round and not just weekend which they might not bother their arse about.
It's just the weekend at the moment in our club but maybe it will change. If it wasn't for a few lads keeping control of the foxes over the winter months we'd be over run with them.

flanum

right.. so is woodpigeon now off the game calender again?

Eddie B

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

With the risk of getting my head eaten off. The vermin scoring system can be abused. You can get people encouraged going out and wiping the likes of foxes totally out of an area. That ain't good:mad:

People should be encouraged to reduce the number of vermin in their area!

There's a lot of lads out there that only shoot game, and wouldn't shoot a fox if it bolted in front of them! They see it as a waste of a cartridge or bullet!

Now your deluding yourself if you think that foxes or any other kind of vermin can be totally wiped out of an area!
Even when foxes had a price on their head, they weren't wiped out!

flanum

Eddie B wrote: »

People should be encouraged to reduce the number of vermin in their area!

There's a lot of lads out there that only shoot game, and wouldn't shoot a fox if it bolted in front of them! They see it as a waste of a cartridge or bullet!

Now your deluding yourself if you think that foxes or any other kind of vermin can be totally wiped out of an area!
Even when foxes had a price on their head, they weren't wiped out!

so coulld somebody please point me to the official game calender for 2010 and if pigeon have a season or are they vermin???

flanum

found it.... according to this... https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/93778/93007.doc
woodpigeon are waaayyy off season yet folks...

Dusty87

flanum wrote: »

found it.... according to this... https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/93778/93007.doc
woodpigeon are waaayyy off season yet folks...

We know they have a season.
Can be shot if causing damage

Feargal as Luimneach

Eddie B wrote: »

People should be encouraged to reduce the number of vermin in their area!

There's a lot of lads out there that only shoot game, and wouldn't shoot a fox if it bolted in front of them! They see it as a waste of a cartridge or bullet!

Now your deluding yourself if you think that foxes or any other kind of vermin can be totally wiped out of an area!
Even when foxes had a price on their head, they weren't wiped out!

Golden eagles and white tailed eagle were classified as vermin in Ireland, they were wiped out. The fox was exterminated from the Island of Mull off scotland (400 square mile area). Am I still deluded??

bunny shooter

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

........Am I still deluded??

Yes, especially on this forum

johngalway

Eagles have zip to do with this thread Feargal.

Your example of an island off the coast of Scotland is of very little use, of course a land based mammal can be eliminated from a small island, 400 square miles sounds a lot, but actually isn't compared to what the rest of the contributors are talking about, that being the island of Ireland.

In the past when more people were involved in keeping domestic stock for food for the house and when foxes weren't urbanised a hell of a lot more people and methods were in action against the fox, also a time when there was money for their skins. Shock horror, he is still with us and as plentiful as ever.

Feargal as Luimneach

johngalway wrote: »

Eagles have zip to do with this thread Feargal.

Your example of an island off the coast of Scotland is of very little use, of course a land based mammal can be eliminated from a small island, 400 square miles sounds a lot, but actually isn't compared to what the rest of the contributors are talking about, that being the island of Ireland.

In the past when more people were involved in keeping domestic stock for food for the house and when foxes weren't urbanised a hell of a lot more people and methods were in action against the fox, also a time when there was money for their skins. Shock horror, he is still with us and as plentiful as ever.

Eagles were classified as vermin and were exterminated. Wolf was classified as vermin and exterminated from Ireland.

Dusty87

What year did wolves become extinct Fearghal? Out of a matter of interest.

EDIT; Good compaison, foxes and wolves

johngalway

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Eagles were classified as vermin and were exterminated. Wolf was classified as vermin and exterminated from Ireland.

Neither of which are on gun club vermin tally sheets.

Feargal as Luimneach

Dusty87 wrote: »

What year did wolves become extinct Fearghal? Out of a matter of interest.

EDIT; Good compaison, foxes and wolves

What relevance does it have what year were wolves exterminated???
They were treated like vermin and eradicated. EddieB said "Now your deluding yourself if you think that foxes or any other kind of vermin can be totally wiped out of an area!" That's the point I was disagreeing with......

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What relevance does it have what year were wolves exterminated???
They were treated like vermin and eradicated. EddieB said "Now your deluding yourself if you think that foxes or any other kind of vermin can be totally wiped out of an area!" That's the point I was disagreeing with......

At the risk of taking this thread off on a complete tangent, the native Irish wolf was wiped out in the 17th and 18th centuries by the English planters who had an irrational hatred of them having already wiped them out in England a few hundred years before. The attitude of the native Irish to wolves at the time was mainly one of live and let live. As well as direct persecution by the Crown state at the time the near total eradication of our native oak woodlands in this period sealed not only our wolves fate, but some magnificient game birds such as the Capercaillie and the Black grouse etc as well.:(.

PS: Fergal, you can't compare the likes of wolves and eagles to Foxes and Grey Crows. The former species have no-where near the ability to withstand the level of persecution the latter can due to their much slower and lower reproduction potential and the fact that the latter are also much more adaptable in terms of diet, habitat etc.

Feargal as Luimneach

Birdnuts wrote: »

At the risk of taking this thread off on a complete tangent, the native Irish wolf was wiped out in the 17th and 18th centuries by the English planters who had an irrational hatred of them having already wiped them out in England a few hundred years before. The attitude of the native Irish to wolves at the time was mainly one of live and let live. As well as direct persecution by the Crown state at the time the near total eradication of our native oak woodlands in this period sealed not only our wolves fate, but some magnificient game birds such as the Capercaillie and the Black grouse etc as well.:(.

PS: Fergal, you can't compare the likes of wolves and eagles to Foxes and Grey Crows. The former species have no-where near the ability to withstand the level of persecution the latter can due to their much slower and lower reproduction potential and the fact that the latter are also much more adaptable in terms of diet, habitat etc.

Black Grouse were never in Ireland. Capercaillie are never found in oak woodland only in mature coniferous forests so clearing of our oak woodlands had no effect on them.
PS: two bad examples you give there.

Grizzly 45

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What relevance does it have what year were wolves exterminated???
......

What revelance is it that that Black game was or was not in Ireland anyway to this point?

Dusty87

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

What relevance does it have what year were wolves exterminated???
They were treated like vermin and eradicated. EddieB said "Now your deluding yourself if you think that foxes or any other kind of vermin can be totally wiped out of an area!" That's the point I was disagreeing with......

And what relevance do your posts have?? Not being smart there, im being serious. I also said as a matter of interest, so in other words you didnt know? You cant compare them, for so many reasons im not even going to start mentioning them

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

Black Grouse were never in Ireland. Capercaillie are never found in oak woodland only in mature coniferous forests so clearing of our oak woodlands had no effect on them.
PS: two bad examples you give there.

I suggest you consult the excellent Irelands Lost Birds on both points. Even today Spanish Caparcailles are found in woodlands with a significant oak element. In any case the British pretty much destroyed all types of woodland in Ireland, Oak or otherwise which fits in with the point I was making!!

Feargal as Luimneach

Birdnuts wrote: »

I suggest you consult the excellent Irelands Lost Birds on both points. Even today Spanish Caparcailles are found in woodlands with a significant oak element. In any case the British pretty much destroyed all types of woodland in Ireland, Oak or otherwise which fits in with the point I was making!!

Black Grouse are not on the IRBC bird list (the definitive list).
I admit that Capercaille can be found in mixed forest but their main habitat is conifer forest.

johngalway

We're drifting way off topic here guys.

Terrier

Terrier wrote: »

NARGC Galway score the following
Mink - 20
Fox -10
Grey - 8
Magpie - 8
Crow - 1
Jackdaw - 1
Pigeon - 1

One year it's straight up points, the second year it's a percentage of membership to give small clubs a chance and so on..

Local Club Castlegar won last year 2008\2009 with
17 Mink
446 Fox
445 Grey
443 Magpie

Total returns for Galway 2008\2009, which i believe won top county also.
236 Mink
2643 Fox
1959 Grey
2401 Mag
64 Pigeon
377 Rook
120 Jackdaw

Must clubs don't return crow\pigeon\jackdaws as the 1pt isn't worth the effort!
2009\2010 results on 20th August

Total returns for Galway 2009\2010

216 Mink
2629 Fox
1563 Grey
2337 Mag
132 Pigeon
360 Rook
204 Jackdaw