New Car Tax system being introduced

kincaid

Hi all
Is it true there is a new car tax law comin' in that you have you have to keep your car in tax even if your out of the country for months and it not even on the road

-Corkie-

Supposed to be anyway. We will know in the next budget I suppose.

Max Power1

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055977697

Alun

To be fair it's a system (if you can call it that) that's open to massive abuse, since it's done 'after the fact' as it were, so nobody, and particularly the Garda who stamps the form, can prove one way or another whether you're actually telling the truth when you state that the car was off the road, so they just have to take your word for it.

A far better way would be to introduce a system like they have in the UK (SORN - Statutory Off Road Notification) where you notify the authorities that you're taking the car off the road before you do it and for how long, so if you're caught in the meantime then you get done for no tax, simple.

kincaid

this country just gets worse for us motorists, ripped off with vrt, very high road tax rates, appalling nct service, appalling roads to drive on,

they cant seem to get anything right or is it they just like giving us a bad deal and ripping us off -( more easy revenue springs to mind)

jock101

kincaid wrote: »

this country just gets worse for us motorists, ripped off with vrt, very high road tax rates, appalling nct service, appalling roads to drive on,

they cant seem to get anything right or is it they just like giving us a bad deal and ripping us off -( more easy revenue springs to mind)

Well if you dont like it, Just do what hundreds of thousands have done, leave and take your cash to more fair society!

Bodhan

jock101 wrote: »

Well if you dont like it, Just do what hundreds of thousands have done, leave and take your cash to more fair society!

IN fairness Jock, that's not the answer, running away because you don't like the rules?
It's a change of the rules we need, just how much of your wages goes into running your car, and out of that figure, how much does the government get?

Del2005

Alun wrote: »

To be fair it's a system (if you can call it that) that's open to massive abuse, since it's done 'after the fact' as it were, so nobody, and particularly the Garda who stamps the form, can prove one way or another whether you're actually telling the truth when you state that the car was off the road, so they just have to take your word for it.

A far better way would be to introduce a system like they have in the UK (SORN - Statutory Off Road Notification) where you notify the authorities that you're taking the car off the road before you do it and for how long, so if you're caught in the meantime then you get done for no tax, simple.

With the widespread introduction of ANPR that should cover catch cars out of tax, the UK has linked most CCTV systems into their ANPR. Why don't we do something similar instead of forcing people to pay for something they aren't using?

bmstuff

Well that would not be too much of an issue if this BLOODY motor tax was fairer and a lot cheaper.

Having to pay 1566 euro (If you pay at once, more if you pay in 2 or 3 times) for a car that would not even fetch for 3000 euro given the market (Big old V8), this is just ridiculous.

bmstuff

Del2005 wrote: »

With the widespread introduction of ANPR that should cover catch cars out of tax, the UK has linked most CCTV systems into their ANPR. Why don't we do something similar instead of forcing people to pay for something they aren't using?

Same principale as TV license mate.
Does not matter if you are using it or not, still have to pay.
This is just based on the principale that you have one.
Fair, unfair, I don't know, easy way not to pay tax, is not to have one. If you don't use your car anyway, why would you keep it. Museum piece? Ok then de-register your car then and store it for viewing.

I am not saying I agree, just saying there is nothing unsual with what they want to do.

Del2005

bmstuff wrote: »

Same principale as TV license mate.
Does not matter if you are using it or not, still have to pay.
This is just based on the principale that you have one.
Fair, unfair, I don't know, easy way not to pay tax, is not to have one.

Not according to Citizens Information. You need a TV licence if you have a device capable of receiving a TV signal but you don't pay motor tax for vehicles not used on the road.

It is a legal requirement in Ireland to have motor tax if you want to drive your vehicle in a public place.

bmstuff wrote: »

If you don't use your car anyway, why would you keep it. Museum piece? Ok then de-register your car then and store it for viewing.

I was away with work and my tax ran out after sitting with tax for several months. I was coming back 2 months later so why should I pay motortax when I can't drive it on a public road?

bmstuff wrote: »

I am not saying I agree, just saying there is nothing unsual with what they want to do.

The easiest way to make sure everyone pays their motortax is abolish it and then add 5c or 10c to fuel, or however much to cover the shortfalll.

It will make sure if you drive on the road you're taxed and it will also work with the polluter pays principle. In that if you do high mileage or have a fuel guzzler you pay more. They could also close down a load of inefficient tax offices and only require one more box/line on petrol station tax returns.

They could even add an extra couple of cent to include some type of basic 3rd party cover and remove the levy from people who actually pay for insurance.

bmstuff

Del2005 wrote: »

Not according to Citizens Information. You need a TV licence if you have a device capable of receiving a TV signal but you don't pay motor tax for vehicles not used on the road.

Yeah right now, but they want to change that according to this article...
Anyway either way they will do us well unfortunately...

Del2005 wrote:

I was away with work and my tax ran out after sitting with tax for several months. I was coming back 2 months later so why should I pay motortax when I can't drive it on a public road?

Does not matter, if they want to change it, it becomes an ownership tax as opposed to a use tax.
Some taxes are based on ownership, does not matter if you use the good in question or not.

Anan1

bmstuff wrote: »

Well that would not be too much of an issue if this BLOODY motor tax was fairer and a lot cheaper.

Having to pay 1566 euro (If you pay at once, more if you pay in 2 or 3 times) for a car that would not even fetch for 3000 euro given the market (Big old V8), this is just ridiculous.

The car's cheap in part because the tax is so high.

djimi

bmstuff wrote: »

Same principale as TV license mate.
Does not matter if you are using it or not, still have to pay.
This is just based on the principale that you have one.
Fair, unfair, I don't know, easy way not to pay tax, is not to have one. If you don't use your car anyway, why would you keep it. Museum piece? Ok then de-register your car then and store it for viewing.

I am not saying I agree, just saying there is nothing unsual with what they want to do.

I have two cars; one which I drive and my old car which is currently in my garage undergoing repairs with a view to being sold on. I have not driven my old car since I got my new one as it is not insured, yet its still in my possession, but why should I pay tax on it given that Im not using it?

Using the TV license as a bases of comparison is also daft as that is a poor system. I have two 20" computer monitors with TV tuners on them, yet technically Im supposed to pay a TV license for them even tho they have never nor will never be used to pick up a TV signal? Come off it...

Our man in Havana

They will be loads of job opportunities available when this comes in. Loads of inspectors will be needed to track down all those cars hidden in garages, fields etc. And a huge bureaucracy to back it all up just like the TV licence.

monkeypants

Del2005 wrote: »

The easiest way to make sure everyone pays their motortax is abolish it and then add 5c or 10c to fuel, or however much to cover the shortfall.

Knowing this shower, that'll happen too, not instead of.

Joe 90

monkeypants wrote: »

Knowing this shower, that'll happen too, not instead of.

It would be like rates. Rates were abolished, road tax was at the same time if I remember, lots of local authority charges have appeared and now lots of talk about rates back under the name of a property tax. If road tax were to be abolished again and a hike placed on fuel, the roadtax would creep back wile the fuel tax hike stayed in place.
The original concept of a tax on fuel was for it to be instead of road tax, not in addition to it so we really have been through at least one iteration of the cycle already.
Always remember that a politician will tax you with the right hand while he robs you blind with the left hand,

Gatster

This is only a recommendation at the moment is it not? As for ANPR the set-up costs would probably prohibit it's introduction here, they can't even afford to cut the grass on roundabouts...

It's not as cut and dried as it seems, as daft as the politicians seem to be, they know political suicide when they see it.

Viper_JB

Haddockman wrote: »

They will be loads of job opportunities available when this comes in. Loads of inspectors will be needed to track down all those cars hidden in garages, fields etc. And a huge bureaucracy to back it all up just like the TV licence.

If it came in at around the same time as the new bill for defending yourself on your properity I'd say allot of these inspectors would go "missing".

dr.fuzzenstein

jock101 wrote: »

Well if you dont like it, Just do what hundreds of thousands have done, leave and take your cash to more fair society!

Actually planning to do that.
Been to Sweden, high taxes and fairly pricey.
Yet everything works, everything is clean, the people seem happy and you never get the feeling that the money you're handing over is not just Paddy Mick ripping you off under some flimsy pretence to get your cash.
Which is the feeling I constantly have in this country.
So many people have told me "If you don't like it, fcuk off!"
And that's what is going to happen.
In the 80's everyone with brains and cop on got out of the country, leaving the gombeens behind to run the country.
With the Celtic tiger many of these people came back only to realise that the Celtic tiger was a massive bubble caused by the morons and gombeens who originally stayed behind and where left to run the country.
So now all those people will get out again (being the ones who helped create the bit of wealth this country has seen with their knowledge and expertise) and take their money with them, adding a massive financial drain to the brain drain.
All this so the others can stay behind on their sinking ship of a country and say "isn't it great that no one complains about what a messed up country this is anymore"
Best hope you're a civil servant then cause those will be the last remaining jobs here.
In the 80's you needed pull to get one of those and sometimes there wasn't even work for your hastily made up job title, it was just a posh way of being on the dole.

buckshotbrolan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Actually planning to do that.
Been to Sweden, high taxes and fairly pricey.
Yet everything works, everything is clean, the people seem happy and you never get the feeling that the money you're handing over is not just Paddy Mick ripping you off under some flimsy pretence to get your cash.
Which is the feeling I constantly have in this country.
So many people have told me "If you don't like it, fcuk off!"
And that's what is going to happen.
In the 80's everyone with brains and cop on got out of the country, leaving the gombeens behind to run the country.
With the Celtic tiger many of these people came back only to realise that the Celtic tiger was a massive bubble caused by the morons and gombeens who originally stayed behind and where left to run the country.
So now all those people will get out again (being the ones who helped create the bit of wealth this country has seen with their knowledge and expertise) and take their money with them, adding a massive financial drain to the brain drain.
All this so the others can stay behind on their sinking ship of a country and say "isn't it great that no one complains about what a messed up country this is anymore"
Best hope you're a civil servant then cause those will be the last remaining jobs here.
In the 80's you needed pull to get one of those and sometimes there wasn't even work for your hastily made up job title, it was just a posh way of being on the dole.

A men, beautifully put!

bmstuff

bmstuff wrote: »

Same principale as TV license mate.
Does not matter if you are using it or not, still have to pay.
This is just based on the principale that you have one.
Fair, unfair, I don't know, easy way not to pay tax, is not to have one. If you don't use your car anyway, why would you keep it. Museum piece? Ok then de-register your car then and store it for viewing.

I am not saying I agree, just saying there is nothing unsual with what they want to do.

Not the same principle at all, one TV license per household, not per TV set mate

ART6

Del2005 wrote: »

The easiest way to make sure everyone pays their motortax is abolish it and then add 5c or 10c to fuel, or however much to cover the shortfalll.

It will make sure if you drive on the road you're taxed and it will also work with the polluter pays principle. In that if you do high mileage or have a fuel guzzler you pay more. They could also close down a load of inefficient tax offices and only require one more box/line on petrol station tax returns.

They could even add an extra couple of cent to include some type of basic 3rd party cover and remove the levy from people who actually pay for insurance.

The motor tax as it stands is certainly a rip off, but at least you know what you are paying. If it was added to fuel the divils would be easing it up every year and you would never know what it was because it would not be separately declared in the price of the fuel.

Maybe another way would be to use the tax system where what you buy has a sticker on it indicating (like on the fuel pumps) what the state tax is. No wait -- we can't do that as it smacks of honesty and we don't want to go down that road.

Del2005

Gatster wrote: »

As for ANPR the set-up costs would probably prohibit it's introduction here, they can't even afford to cut the grass on roundabouts...

Garda cars already have ANPR, it can't be too hard to link it into CCTV systems as it's already been done in the UK on the majority of their publicly funded systems.

Don't forget that cutting the grass on roundabouts only makes the roads safer, ANPR will make easy money!!

tommyhaas

bmstuff wrote: »

Does not matter if you are using it or not, still have to pay.
This is just based on the principale that you have one.
Fair, unfair, I don't know, easy way not to pay tax, is not to have one. If you don't use your car anyway, why would you keep it. Museum piece? Ok then de-register your car then and store it for viewing.

My car is off the road twice a year for 3mth+ periods as I work at sea. Theres no way Im gona pay to tax the car while Im not using it, as I can prove I was away. Tbh, if it did come in, Id prefer to risk driving without the tax

jock101

tommyhaas wrote: »

My car is off the road twice a year for 3mth+ periods as I work at sea. Theres no way Im gona pay to tax the car while Im not using it, as I can prove I was away. Tbh, if it did come in, Id prefer to risk driving without the tax

The FreeState Enforcers will seize it on you. Just Emigrate! Simple solution to a Banana Republic!:rolleyes:

tommyhaas

jock101 wrote: »

The FreeState Enforcers will seize it on you. Just Emigrate! Simple solution to a Banana Republic!:rolleyes:

Im not going to emmigrate just because of a few hundred though,

Esel

@dr.fuzzenstein: Please don't use black text. It's invisible to users on cloud skin.

VinnyTGM

This has gone completely off the rails, their going to tax us because we own something, wtf.

And the current and previous tax systems are so fcuking stupid. Why isn't it simply taxed by a user basis, not a car basis.

However we are going to continue to get raped by the Govt. until we refuse to pay.

Max Power1

Gatster wrote: »

This is only a recommendation at the moment is it not? As for ANPR the set-up costs would probably prohibit it's introduction here, they can't even afford to cut the grass on roundabouts...

It's not as cut and dried as it seems, as daft as the politicians seem to be, they know political suicide when they see it.

especially if its not cut at all




/gets coat

Tea drinker

Haddockman wrote: »

They will be loads of job opportunities available when this comes in. Loads of inspectors will be needed to track down all those cars hidden in garages, fields etc. And a huge bureaucracy to back it all up just like the TV licence.

So what you are saying is it's going to cost a bomb and the money won't be spent on roads?

I have my old passat parked up in Ireland, as much as I don't want to she will be a gonner if I have to pay tax on it. As the guys said, what about all the car projects guys have, slowly rebuilding and working on their "hobby" car? It really seems like an anti-social approach. Ah sure the gov werre always anti community anyway, this is just the icing on the cake.

The motor tax as it stands is certainly a rip off, but at least you know what you are paying. If it was added to fuel the divils would be easing it up every year and you would never know what it was because it would not be separately declared in the price of the fuel..

They already tax the fuel, what makes you think they can't hike it up (was gonna say down) and up as they see fit already?

It's getting like the 80's, guys with 1.6 are driving a BIG car.

kincaid

I don’t think any of us would mind paying extra taxes if it was done in a fair
Way and the money was going to priority matters like health, education etc

These are the things that really matter And not on silly things like building spires, voting machines( are we still paying storage costs for these) TD homes/expenses etc..
If in the good times which will hardly ever be repeated(not in my time anyway ) the government squandered
The lot, hospitals and schools were in chaos so how do they expect to sort it now..
In Northern Ireland the car tax is low You can claim your car tax back once you sell/scrap it, here its high and worth claiming back but you can't do it..
cars not in use can be sorn in NI..
the system works well so why can't the government use a similar system...
but they just seem to want to squeeze every penny from the people by any means possible

Anyway extra revenue will not go where it should but whats new

EPM

jock101 wrote: »

The FreeState Enforcers will seize it on you. Just Emigrate! Simple solution to a Banana Republic!:rolleyes:

I take it you've taken your own advice?






// fingers crossed

kincaid

jock101, to be honest if i was younger and had no ties i wouldn't be here.. but i am...
thought it would be improving overall but seems not