Literary Snobbery

HavingCrack

How much does literary snobbery bother everyone on this forum?? Whats your opinions on it?

Its just been on my mind lately ever since I finished 'The Complaints' by Ian Rankin and I was having a chat with someone who considers themselves to be a "intellectual". I told him what book I'd just finished and he really looked down his nose at me for it as he'd just finished 'Finnegans Wake' which I consider to be utter unreadable rubbish personally but its just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. I get really irritated by this sort of literary snobbery though so just interested in everyone elses thougts and experiences.

Permabear

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mathepac

HavingCrack wrote: »

... I told him what book I'd just finished and he really looked down his nose at me for it as he'd just finished 'Finnegans Wake' which I consider to be utter unreadable rubbish personally but its just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. ...

"Ah, good day Pot, I'd like you to meet my other friend Kettle, you may have more than a little in common." :rolleyes:

Eliot Rosewater

donegalfella wrote: »

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In fact, I believe that the reverse snobbery can often times be worse. I don't ever go out of my way to bash, say, Dan Brown, but I know that some people do like to go out of their way to bash "high-brow" literature. "Literary snobbery" is generally a case of people simply ignoring the existence of books that don't appeal to them, whereas "reverse snobbery" is distinctly more militant.

I think it's some form of inferiority complex at play. Someone reads a novel, doesn't understand it at all and so goes on a tirade against the author, trying desperately to deflect from the fact that they, as readers, were simply ill-equipped to analyse the novel.

What they don't realise is that it's no embarrassment to be beaten by bound sheets of paper. Crafty little things, books can be. Accept that, and stop taking it personally!

Meeja Ireland

donegalfella wrote: »

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Interesting points, but don't you think this rhetoric of "highbrow types" is just as pointless and reductive as the snobbery you rightly decry?

On a point of plain fact, I'd be interested in more details about these intellectuals who are infuriated at the "lowbrow" elements of Finnegans Wake. It's not an attitude I've ever seen anyone express.

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metrovelvet

I have no time for it. Though I'm suspicious of people who only read non fiction.

The Mad Hatter

donegalfella wrote: »

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What sorts of issues have you had? I've regularly read classics in public and have never had any confrontations. Maybe it's the way you read. :P

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HavingCrack

donegalfella wrote: »

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It wouldn't represent the pinnacle of literary snobbery to me personally but it did to the person I was conversing with. I certainly wouldn't look down my nose at someone for reading 'Finnegans Wake' but it does irritate that people somehow think their choice of book is somehow 'better' than mine for reasons they can't really explain.

mathepac wrote: »

"Ah, good day Pot, I'd like you to meet my other friend Kettle, you may have more than a little in common." :rolleyes:

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HavingCrack

donegalfella wrote: »

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Thats a fair point to make when you are capable of explaining why you think book x is a more accomplished piece than book y but in my personal experience I've found most people cannot explain why one novel is more accomplished than another. I suppose thats the real issue that annoys me.

Denerick

I agree wholeheartedly with DonegalFella's analysis. There is a clear difference between good and bad books, but each have their own merits.

For example, I read both high and lowbrow. I like the occasional thriller. (Robert Harris' books on Cicero for example)

Eliot Rosewater

Once in a late night bar I started shouting out excerpts from The Grapes of Wrath to my soon-to-be-girlfriend's friends. The stony looks I got in return only served to make me louder and more desperate and add in more questions like "do you understand it?"

The subsequent accusations of snobbishness were well merited.

donegalfella wrote: »

But I can readily explain to you why George Eliot's Middlemarch is a better novel than Cecelia Ahern's P.S. I Love You.

Have you read P.S. I Love You?

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Eliot Rosewater

donegalfella wrote: »

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I think it worked in my favour, in fact.

donegalfella wrote: »

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That was good of you. In fairness, Cecelia Ahern must be aware that she's nothing compared to Joyce. Not to mean that dismissively, but she is targeting a different "market" to the likes of Joyce (to put it in plain economic terms). So fielding questions which attempt to compare her to him must be embarrassing. She can't admit she's not really good, obviously, but she also can't really claim she is anywhere near as good as him.

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Alice Milligan

I think most people have been accused of literary snobbery at one time or another. I was once asked why I was reading Ezra Pound when he was “so out of fashion”. Although maybe I am a literary snob because I quite like reading what I want to read and making these wonderful connections between writers and discovering books I might not otherwise have read. As long as people are reading, using their imaginations and improving their literacy levels it doesn’t matter who they are reading. You never know maybe Cecelia Ahern will inspire someone to read a classic like Emma!

Valmont

donegalfella wrote: »

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:DThis gave me a good laugh.
Why would someone criticise you for reading on a train? Even more importantly, was it a stranger? Count yourself lucky because where I work I'm simply maligned for reading, full stop!

The Mad Hatter

Do people actually have people talk to them about what they're reading on the train? This has never happened to me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Denerick

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Do people actually have people talk to them about what they're reading on the train? This has never happened to me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Whenever I'm on a train I carry War and Peace with me. I hold it in front of my face, and every so often I yawn, stretch my arms, and display the book behind my head as I do so and project it into the air. I don't actually read it.

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RonMexico

donegalfella - you should try reading American Psycho on the train and laugh loudly every so often.

Wolfe Tone

I nearly got into a fight one time on a train because of a book.


I was reading Mein Kamph. I know I didn't actually think about what it would look like at the time, I just grabbed the book I was reading and left.

Cue dirty looks and comments. One guy asked me why I was reading it and when I told him (general interest/pleasure) he started to get really angry.

I suppose the sight of a 16/17yo reading that book is very strange.

The Mad Hatter

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I nearly got into a fight one time on a train because of a book.


I was reading Mein Kamph. I know I didn't actually think about what it would look like at the time, I just grabbed the book I was reading and left.

Cue dirty looks and comments. One guy asked me why I was reading it and when I told him (general interest/pleasure) he started to get really angry.

I suppose the sight of a 16/17yo reading that book is very strange.

Did you tell him you post under the username Mussolini?

Wolfe Tone

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Did you tell him you post under the username Mussolini?

No, I was in my SS get up though, think that contributed to the reaction?


I realy have to sub and get the name changed.

sron

People on the train have never bothered me while reading. I spent the two and a half hours of a Cork to Heuston journey frustrating myself with about 20 pages of Spinoza's Ethics and no-one said a word to me.

Damian Duffy

Personally, I have never received criticism for reading 'high brow' literature in public. Most people just ask how I have the patience to get through those sort of books etc. Like in the case of 'Infinite Jest', most people could not fathom why I would want to read a book that is 1300 pages long and complicated in it's subject matter.

My response is that I enjoy the challenge of having to engage with a complicated text and it will, in most cases, reward me for the effort. For most people, this reward comes in a simple plot twist or a surprise ending and as such will read simpler books.

There is a stigma attached to classics that they are difficult, boring etc and a lot of people unfortunately associate them with school and as such will not read them for enjoyment. You have to also remember that the average Irish person will read, watch and listen to what the majority read, watch and listen too. Individuality has died a death in this country and if you do things a little bit different to someone, your looked at as a bit pretentious or a snob.

It goes for music and film. The majority of people will do just what others are doing. That's why the books top ten are what they are, everyone's reading the Stieg Larsson books, well I'll read them too. Everyone likes Kings of Leon, well I'll listen to them too. Inception is being talked about everywhere, I better go see it. That's just the mentality of a lot of Irish people. Subtitled film, **** that. Dostoyevsky, no way.

I've just come to accept it for what it is, maybe I was quite snobby about it at one stage in that I'd be critical of someone who reads Dan Brown etc but if what they want is a casual fun read who are we to stop them. I tried to introduce better books to friends, just based what I thought they would like but nobody listened and I accepted that it was it a waste of time and people just have a certain mentality.

I'm glad people read at all, because the book is dying in this country.

Damian Duffy

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Do people actually have people talk to them about what they're reading on the train? This has never happened to me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

That thought crossed my mind too, if a stranger approached me and commented on what I was reading, our exchange would not be pleasant.

The Mad Hatter

Damian Duffy wrote: »

That thought crossed my mind too, if a stranger approached me and commented on what I was reading, our exchange would not be pleasant.

I'd like it. But then I'm an evangelist for things I love, anyway.

Earthhorse

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Do people actually have people talk to them about what they're reading on the train? This has never happened to me. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

You need to start shouting excerpts from the text at them and asking them if they understand it.

Damian Duffy wrote: »

It goes for music and film. The majority of people will do just what others are doing. That's why the books top ten are what they are, everyone's reading the Stieg Larsson books, well I'll read them too. Everyone likes Kings of Leon, well I'll listen to them too. Inception is being talked about everywhere, I better go see it. That's just the mentality of a lot of Irish people. Subtitled film, **** that. Dostoyevsky, no way.

Thought I'm not one of them, some people seem to enjoy the shared exprience of culture more than the culture itself.

HavingCrack

I might start bringing my Steinbeck books on the LUAS in future...maybe girls will try to chat me up with comments over his portrayal of depression era California in the 'Grapes of Wrath'.;)

Damian Duffy

Earthhorse wrote: »

Thought I'm not one of them, some people seem to enjoy the shared exprience of culture more than the culture itself.

You think they enjoy it or don't want to feel isolated from it?

Earthhorse

Maybe a bit of both. I don't share the mindset so can't say.

mikhail

I occasionally act a little snobby about extremely popular crimes against language (e.g. Browne). It's mostly frustration with a culture in which Paris Hilton is more famous than Tom Stoppard. I read a mixture of light stuff and more challenging books.

I detest inverse snobbery though. It's moronic.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I nearly got into a fight one time on a train because of a book.


I was reading Mein Kamph. I know I didn't actually think about what it would look like at the time, I just grabbed the book I was reading and left.

Cue dirty looks and comments. One guy asked me why I was reading it and when I told him (general interest/pleasure) he started to get really angry.

I suppose the sight of a 16/17yo reading that book is very strange.

The irony of someone acting in a threatening manner because he objects to someone reading a book by the world's most famous fascist is delicious.

Quality

Tbh I wouldn't read a Chicklit novel in public! Definitely not on a bus train or plane. I do notice whAt people read and would question them on the book or author.


But I do enjoy some chicklit Authors! Nice easy reading!

Sergeant

Reading big books. Very serious business indeed.

hatful

In Turkey recently my friend made a dust jacket out of a4 paper and sellotape so that he wouldn't draw attention to the controversial biography he was reading. I would pass comment in a cafe or on the train if I saw someone reading something that I enjoyed but I haven't seen anything I recognize lots of fantasy, thrillers on public transport.

Ectoplasm

I despise literary snobbery whichever direction it flows. I read a wide range of fiction from classics to contemporary bestsellers and to be perfectly honest, it's for enjoyment. If I'm not enjoying a book, I will move on - it might be a classic or it might be a contemporary novel.

I hate the notion that because I'm reading Dickens, it is somehow more 'worthy' than a popular novel. If I like it, I like it. I'm not too concerned with what other people think about it. Popular doesn't always mean bad, in the same way as it doesn't necessarily mean good.

I also dislike the notion that just because something is a classic I have to like it. I hated 'Wuthering Heights'. Really, I spent much of it wanting to slap Cathy. Do I dismiss it as a good book? No. To be fair, any book that can provoke that level of annoyance out of me has to be connecting on some level

As far as I'm concerned, all reading is good and to each their own. I'll happily argue the merits of a particular book but comparing genres or selecting classics as better or more intellectual than contemporary novels does make me a little nutty.

megadodge

EMF2010 wrote: »

I despise literary snobbery whichever direction it flows. I read a wide range of fiction from classics to contemporary bestsellers and to be perfectly honest, it's for enjoyment. If I'm not enjoying a book, I will move on - it might be a classic or it might be a contemporary novel.

I hate the notion that because I'm reading Dickens, it is somehow more 'worthy' than a popular novel. If I like it, I like it. I'm not too concerned with what other people think about it. Popular doesn't always mean bad, in the same way as it doesn't necessarily mean good.

I also dislike the notion that just because something is a classic I have to like it. I hated 'Wuthering Heights'. Really, I spent much of it wanting to slap Cathy. Do I dismiss it as a good book? No. To be fair, any book that can provoke that level of annoyance out of me has to be connecting on some level

As far as I'm concerned, all reading is good and to each their own. I'll happily argue the merits of a particular book but comparing genres or selecting classics as better or more intellectual than contemporary novels does make me a little nutty.

+1

As far as I'm concerned it's all down to personal taste.

I'll read almost anything, any genre, any era and I couldn't care less what Joe Public thinks of a book I'm reading.

If I like something I'll read it and I'm doing it for my own entertainment, not to fit in or not to show how well-read I am.

By the same token, I don't care if everyone else on the planet likes something, if I've read it and don't like it I don't care if I'm classified as a "snob" or "uneducated" I won't be afraid to say I don't like it.

Permabear

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Valmont

donegalfella wrote: »

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This is news to me! Perhaps The Da Vinci Code will be on the leaving cert syllabus in one hundred years?

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