Stabbing culture

weiland79

What type of person is it that thinks they need to carry a knife with them when they go out?

When they've finished fixing their hair, checked that they have their wallet, key's, mobile phone and they are half way out the door, do they suddenly think, oh i must take my knife with me.
Of course when people are drunk things can get out of hand, fights break out people are hurt, but for the most part all parties involved get to go home.

But not if someone has brought a knife with them.

I mean look at the person that brings the knife. We can assume that he was sober when he decided to take the knife with him, so the fact that he is drunk when the knife is used becomes moot.
Does he not stop to think "hang on a second, if i actually use this tonight, EVERYTHING! changes"
Not only can a person potentially die, but the stabber will go to jail (hopefully) Two lives ruined, the families and friends of both involved ruined. What if either or both have children, what does it do to the kids?

When did this culture begin and why? In my day (and i'm only 34) i didn't know anybody that brought a knife out with them. We got into rucks, and all went home a bit bruised but able to fight another day.

Have a look these links, it really makes for some scary reading.
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/15-knife-attacks-on-night-of-chaos-1516756.html

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/MY+SON'S+KNIFE+ATTACK+HORROR+AT+STAB+SCHOOL%3B+11-yr-old+had+blade+held...-a085942719
my son is twelve so the above one hits home for me.

And of course the most recent http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0723/swords.html

It doesn't say it in the article but apparently in the attack in Swords, words were exchanged and the person in custody actually went home and got the knife, returned and killed the victim.

The whole situation really saddens me.:(

Any thoughts?

KittyeeTrix

Not being funny but in some areas it's kill or be killed!!!!

If you don't carry a knife your at a distinct disadvantage if some scum targets you

Not saying it's right but I can understand why some lads/girls would carry

galwayrush

Guns are more effective but i guess knives are easier to obtain for your average scumbag.

Coriolanus

If I lived or socialised in certain areas of Dublin, I'd want a knife.

Killer Pigeon

Nevore wrote: »

If I lived or socialised in certain areas of Dublin, I'd want a knife.

I think I'd need I knife if I lived anywhere nowadays. I mean you can't go very far without one when eating your dinner, whether at home or socialising with friends.

Kiwi_knock

They carry the knives either expecting violence or hoping for an opportunistic mugging chance

vibe666

there's a couple of bars around Limerick that if they search you and you're not carrying, they'll give you a spare one out of their lost & found bin to tide you over for the night.

weiland79

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Not being funny but in some areas it's kill or be killed!!!!

If you don't carry a knife your at a distinct disadvantage if some scum targets you

Not saying it's right but I can understand why some lads/girls would carry

I know you are right, but kids as young as 10 or eleven thinking nothing of ending anothers life is just horrific.
It also seems that it becoming more and more widespread, not just confined to the areas you might associate it with.http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfcweyaugb/

staker

Would the knife magnetise in an electric chair?

Coriolanus

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I think I'd need I knife if I lived anywhere nowadays. I mean you can't go very far without one when eating your dinner, whether at home or socialising with friends.

I'm not interested in anything that can't be eaten with a fork alone, or at least munched on straight off the plate.

sligopark

Nevore wrote: »

If I lived or socialised in certain areas of Dublin, I'd want a knife.

unless of course you had some fight training requisite for children today - kick boxing toward krav maga and the moral, discipline and consequence training lacking today in inner cities because most parents are enslaved thanks to thier government.

Why do parents continue to live in these areas unless required so by addiction?

fought a few people with knives and yes got cut more then a few times (was London years ago) but always made sure to break their arms as I did when glassed

not sure where the answer is right now but society can have little faith in an understrength and unfairly paid police force/ social workers to fight the problem

we need more law and more pride and discipline institutionised into our social fabric

rossie1977

when i was in college in athlone my friend used to carry a knife, he was 6'4 and 19 stone too (looked like a pro-wrestler), that tells you something about what a nice area willow park wasn't :eek:

Yakult

Alot of people want the Commando pro perk I guess.

Mike 1972

sligopark wrote: »

Why do parents continue to live in these areas unless required so by addiction?

Why doesnt everyone live in Beverley hills ?

grenache

vibe666 wrote: »

there's a couple of bars around West Dublin that if they search you and you're not carrying, they'll give you a spare one out of their lost & found bin to tide you over for the night.

FYP

sligopark

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Why doesnt everyone live in Beverley hills ?

Personally I moved west - can't see why anyone with children would'nt cash in the continued higher prices of dublin homes to move west other than specialised jobs - if you had children and availability of job elsewhere why live in Dublin?

yermanoffthetv

weiland79 wrote: »

What type of person is it that thinks they need to carry a knife with them when they go out?

Someone with a cabbage for a brain and a peanut sized knob. You thing they worry about the consequences? ha no, its all about "da rezzpect from da boyz, laike" Boot in the arse and a manditory stint in the RDF will sort em....except dont teach em the firearms training bit:P Seriously tho if left unchecked it could end up like the UK which has it pretty bad reguards knife crime and thug culture.

zuroph

Call a place Swords and what do you expect?

sligopark

vibe666 wrote: »

there's a couple of bars around Limerick that if they search you and you're not carrying, they'll give you a spare one out of their lost & found bin to tide you over for the night.

grenache wrote: »

FYP

As a doorman in Londan in the very early 90's we searched everyone on the way in for sharps and drugs

if handed over they were returned on the way out - if not acknowledged on the way in patrons were refused entry unless on explanation of door policiy they were handed over

KittyeeTrix

weiland79 wrote: »

I know you are right, but kids as young as 10 or eleven thinking nothing of ending anothers life is just horrific.
It also seems that it becoming more and more widespread, not just confined to the areas you might associate it with.http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhkfcweyaugb/

I know, it's frightening!!!

My eldest is 16 and I do worry when he goes into Galway for a night to the cinema, disco or bowling with friends....
Just have to hope he won't come to any harm:)

weiland79

Yes what about something like a years national service in the Army. I know i wouldn't have been adverse to the idea when i was 18 in fact it probably would have done me the world of good.
Does anyone think that maybe this may help instill in people a certain amount of personel and social responsibilityAnd maybe a little bit of pride in the way they conduct themselves.

yermanoffthetv

weiland79 wrote: »

Yes what about something like a years national service in the Army. I know i wouldn't have been adverse to the idea when i was 18 in fact it probably would have done me the world of good.
Does anyone think that maybe this may help instill in people a certain amount of personel and social responsibilityAnd maybe a little bit of pride in the way they conduct themselves.

With the funding and equipment our army reserves get? unfortunately no...

sligopark

weiland79 wrote: »

Yes what about something like a years national service in the Army. I know i wouldn't have been adverse to the idea when i was 18 in fact it probably would have done me the world of good.
Does anyone think that maybe this may help instill in people a certain amount of personel and social responsibilityAnd maybe a little bit of pride in the way they conduct themselves.

No doubt national service is underated

yermanoffthetv

Thing is, do you want to fill up the RDF with scummers and drugaddicts? Community services schemes might be a better choice. But actually make them do some real work like dig a road or something not just half-arssedly clean some grafitti of a wall.

weiland79

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Someone with a cabbage for a brain and a peanut sized knob. You thing they worry about the consequences? ha no, its all about "da rezzpect from da boyz, laike" Boot in the arse and a manditory stint in the RDF will sort em....except dont teach em the firearms training bit:P Seriously tho if left unchecked it could end up like the UK which has it pretty bad reguards knife crime and thug culture.

Thats a good point about us slipping into a similar culture as the UK. And the way i see it is.
Rather than use or own initiative in regards to laws and policy we simply mimic those of our neighbours, and this is clearly not working.
I understand that in some cases it is easier to copy existing legislation from other countries, if said legislation works, but the UK is clearly losing control of this particular situation.
And if we must look to other countries for guidance then why not to countries like Germany or France.

sligopark

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Community services schemes might be a better choice. But actually make them do some real work like dig a road or something not just half-arssedly clean some grafitti of a wall.

all part and parcel of national service on the continent and also includes care of the elderly in the community and fire service

weiland79

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

Thing is, do you want to fill up the RDF with scummers and drugaddicts? Community services schemes might be a better choice. But actually make them do some real work like dig a road or something not just half-arssedly clean some grafitti of a wall.

Your right and i suppose i made the point myself. By the time people would be old enough for national service the damage is already done.

Pauleta

Carrying a knife should be treated the same as carrying a gun. If you stab somebody you are trying to kill them and should be tried as attempted murder if the victim doesnt die.

Mike 1972

sligopark wrote: »

No doubt national service is underated

One tends to find that those who advocate national "service" are well above the age it would be likely to be applied to were it to be introduced

weiland79

Mike 1972 wrote: »

One tends to find that those who advocate national "service" are well above the age it would be likely to be applied to were it to be introduced

That may be true but, what do you think?

HereNorThere

Actually, I used to carry a knife with me before my room mates boyfriend stole it. Live in a bad part of town and really do need it. I'm pretty sure the legal size in US is 4 inches.
Also, I have a fear of big dogs. Especially pit bulls. TOO MANY people have them over here and actually ignore the leash laws and walk them without one. I just feel safer with one in my pocket.

I miss my knife.

ps- Never take a knife to a gun fight.

weiland79

HereNorThere wrote: »

Actually, I used to carry a knife with me before my room mates boyfriend stole it. Live in a bad part of town and really do need it. I'm pretty sure the legal size in US is 4 inches.
Also, I have a fear of big dogs. Especially pit bulls. TOO MANY people have them over here and actually ignore the leash laws and walk them without one. I just feel safer with one in my pocket.

I miss my knife.

ps- Never take a knife to a gun fight.

You would want to be pretty handy with that knife, because i think a 4 inch blade is just going to P!ss a pitbull off!

sligopark

weiland79 wrote: »

Your right and i suppose i made the point myself. By the time people would be old enough for national service the damage is already done.

not so on the continent unless you have reports otherwise

Pauleta wrote: »

Carrying a knife should be treated the same as carrying a gun. If you stab somebody you are trying to kill them and should be tried as attempted murder if the victim doesnt die.

unles of course your child uses it in self defense?

Mike 1972 wrote: »

One tends to find that those who advocate national "service" are well above the age it would be likely to be applied to were it to be introduced

Persoanlly I think it would have had alot to offer me that I struggled to find as I had to move along with life - it would have been great to have been offered that standstill in life to develop discipline and order within my life that national service offers

sligopark

HereNorThere wrote: »

Especially pit bulls.

ps- Never take a knife to a gun fight.

nor a dog fight - always handy to close your hand in over their nose to invoke bite release rather than stabbing and harden that bite

BTW you obviously have not been socialised with a staffy or pit or you would have little fear my friend honestly

stovelid

zuroph wrote: »

Call a place Swords and what do you expect?

This kind of disrespect fills me with great zorro.

Mike 1972

sligopark wrote: »

Persoanlly I think it would have had alot to offer me that I struggled to find as I had to move along with life - it would have been great to have been offered that standstill in life to develop discipline and order within my life that national service offers

did you try signing up ?

weiland79

sligopark wrote: »

not so on the continent unless you have reports otherwise

No, no reports to the contrary, but it does seem to me that if a person has been involved in say a life of crime, drugs and other forms of antisocial behavior since the age of 10, that perhaps a years service may not quite cut it.

yermanoffthetv

weiland79 wrote: »

That may be true but, what do you think?

I wouldnt favour it tbh. A service like that should be voluntary and professional only. You shouldnt be there if you dont want to.

Another thing to note is the lack of prison spaces. Overcrowding sometimes means criminals get early release or their sentences postponed for months. Also prison sencentes for non violent acts like non payment of bills ect has to be looked at because that too is adding to the problems.

Maybe they should take a shock approach and show the secondry school kids pictures of stab victims like the ad campaign in London? Might scare some sense into em.

Thoughts?

JayEnnis

Mike 1972 wrote: »

One tends to find that those who advocate national "service" are well above the age it would be likely to be applied to were it to be introduced

I'm 17 and I would love it.

I think its a great idea and might actually instill a sense of respect in all these scumbags who think they have some sort of entitlement to start fights and then when they start getting the **** bet out of them they pull a knife.

And its nothing to do with living in a disadvantaged area, I come from one and I think I'm a fairly well rounded respectful chap. It's the parents fault, the ones living off the dole and not being bothered to go find a job. It gives the children the idea that its fine to do whatever you want and get away with it.

We need harsher sentences for people even found carrying knives as well as a more 'oppressive' police force.

JayEnnis

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

I wouldnt favour it tbh. A service like that should be voluntary and professional only. You shouldnt be there if you dont want to.

Another thing to note is the lack of prison spaces. Overcrowding sometimes means criminals get early release or their sentences postponed for months. Also prison sencentes for non violent acts like non payment of bills ect has to be looked at because that too is adding to the problems.

Maybe they should take a shock approach and show the secondry school kids pictures of stab victims like the ad campaign in London? Might scare some sense into em.

Thoughts?

Get rid of parole officers, make prisoners do hard labour and build more prisons with the money saved.

HereNorThere

weiland79 wrote: »

You would want to be pretty handy with that knife, because i think a 4 inch blade is just going to P!ss a pitbull off!

Not if you know where to ram it.

sligopark

Mike 1972 wrote: »

did you try signing up ?

eh bit past that age group now Mike but when I was 17 a group of us went for the Irish army - the first of us got turned down on asthma - none of the rest of us went into the medical and left on train and shortly after split up, leaving for the US, Germany, Bulgaria and beyond


Personally and honestly I think I needed it and given national service allows a break in life much like transitional year I think it is a good idea

Mike 1972

Funny I didnt do national service or transition year and I havent eaten any babies yet ?

sligopark wrote: »

Personally and honestly I think I needed it

So how many people have you stabbed ?

sligopark

JayEnnis wrote: »

We need harsher sentences for people even found carrying knives as well as a more 'oppressive' police force.

perhaps not longer sentences that emburden the tax payer further bit a police force opened up beyond political correctness and the reintroduction of steel toed boots and handcuffed and closed car boot trips out to the country

HereNorThere

sligopark wrote: »

nor a dog fight - always handy to close your hand in over their nose to invoke bite release rather than stabbing and harden that bite

BTW you obviously have not been socialised with a staffy or pit or you would have little fear my friend honestly

Uhm, I have no intention of putting my hands anywhere near a pitt bulls nose. too close to those damn teeth. I'll just stick with the knife.

Uh- no pun intended.

yermanoffthetv

JayEnnis wrote: »

Get rid of parole officers, make prisoners do hard labour and build more prisons with the money saved.

two birds one stone, I like

sligopark

Mike 1972 wrote: »

So how many people have you stabbed ?

HUH? None - not one - where the hell did that thought come from?


When I spoke of need I meant the example of self discipline and the outside push toward win and pride perhaps not immediately available within my immediate family

yermanoffthetv

sligopark wrote: »

HUH? None - not one - where the hell did that thought come from?


When I spoke of need I meant the example of self discipline and the outside push toward win and pride perhaps not immediately available within my immediate family

"Arah sure ya could goe joine a hoorlin club"...Irish governments answer to all youth problems :rolleyes:

sligopark

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

"Arah sure ya could goe joine a hoorlin club"...Irish governments answer to all youth problems :rolleyes:

Arah sure I forgot that time I stabbed a full forward before they introduced that silly helmet rule in- what were the gaa thinking of'

perhaps I missing something or is national service taking the OP of carrying knives off topic?

weiland79

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

I wouldnt favour it tbh. A service like that should be voluntary and professional only. You shouldnt be there if you dont want to.

Another thing to note is the lack of prison spaces. Overcrowding sometimes means criminals get early release or their sentences postponed for months. Also prison sencentes for non violent acts like non payment of bills ect has to be looked at because that too is adding to the problems.

Maybe they should take a shock approach and show the secondry school kids pictures of stab victims like the ad campaign in London? Might scare some sense into em.

Thoughts?

Well in regards to the professional aspect of the service.
I suppose that if i were in the army through choice i would be pretty peeved at having to stand beside some little upstart that was only there because he had to.
But then again i don't suppose that would happen and that the national service 'soliders' could perhaps be trained seperately, with a view to continuing on after their time.
But the point of the service (for me) is not to only make soliders, but perhaps create some structure for people that are lacking it in their personal lives.

I know what you mean about the over crowding, but should we really be looking to just build bigger prisons, from what i can see, in many cases prison can make criminals into worse criminals.

So yes education. It has to begin with education.
The shock treatment i wouldn't be to sure of, as people tend to take in what they want to. Smokers are a perfect example of this. A picture of a cancer ridden lung on a pack of smokes does no deter most smokers.

yermanoffthetv

sligopark wrote: »

Arah sure I forgot that time I stabbed a full forward before they introduced that silly helmet rule in- what were the gaa thinking of'

perhaps I missing something or is national service taking the OP of carrying knives off topic?

A wee bit but mullin out solution should be on the agenda too. any thoughts on my earlier proposal of "shock education" in schools