minimum wage

denisodwyer

what is the minimum wage for an 18 year old, first time of work?

DrumSteve

€8.65 I think...

meditraitor

denisodwyer wrote: »

what is the minimum wage for an 18 year old, first time of work?

€6.95


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/pay-and-employment/pay_inc_min_wage

DrumSteve

meditraitor wrote: »

€6.95


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/pay-and-employment/pay_inc_min_wage

my bad

meditraitor

€6.95 is brutal,

chilloutman

the minimum wage should be a lot lower and hopefully it would create a few more jobs what ya think?

chilloutman

and of course social welfare should be lowered as well

meditraitor

and of course taxes/net should be increased/widened to include the young bucks on €6.95

crazyFeet

you must be on social welfare then? if you are not on what do you base your comment? i work myself, and i wouldn't be able to live for the social welfare pay as it is just too low. have friends who do and they can't even afford to come down to dublin for my bday this week cuz they are all broke (rent, insurance...)

Liam Byrne

crazyFeet wrote: »

you must be on social welfare then? if you are not on what do you base your comment? i work myself, and i wouldn't be able to live for the social welfare pay as it is just too low. have friends who do and they can't even afford to come down to dublin for my bday this week cuz they are all broke (rent, insurance...)

You're not meant to "live" on Social Welfare; you're meant to survive until you can get a job.

Ren2k7

I remember working a couple of years ago around the time the minimum wage was increased to 8.65. The minimum wage i was getting prior to that i thought was quite generous and certainly enough to do me. Then again i was working roughly 45 hours a week. Now that we all have reduced living costs (lower rent, food costs, etc) a case could be made for reducing the minimum wage.

Liam Byrne

Ren2k7 wrote: »

Now that we all have reduced living costs (lower rent, food costs, etc) a case could be made for reducing the minimum wage.

In fairness, that's an over-simplification.

Some things have gone down, but many have gone up significantly, at the very least counter-balancing those reduced - including fuel, insurance, tax, etc.

deise blue

Thankfully for all those earning the minimum wage IBEC one of the most influential voices when it comes to agreeing the minimum wage have stated that ther are not seeking any reduction rather they are suggesting that a freeze applies.

crazyFeet

crazyFeet wrote: »

you must be on social welfare then? if you are not on what do you base your comment? i work myself, and i wouldn't be able to live for the social welfare pay as it is just too low. have friends who do and they can't even afford to come down to dublin for my bday this week cuz they are all broke (rent, insurance...)

You want them to travel for your birthday. Hardly a surprise they're all 'broke'


Anyway, I don't think minimum wage should be touched. 8.65 isn't a bad wage to be on (as someone on social welfare, I wouldn't say no to it) but at the same time, it's hardly amazing either. What is it? €335 or thereabouts for a 39 hour week?

sealgaire

whatever about reducing social welfare, min wage etc, Rent allowance should be scrapped completly

doolox

Why scrap it?

Rent allowance is paid to accomodate people who have no other means to afford housing.

In many cases the real beneficiaries are the owners, usually the banks, of the houses being rented.

The only other alternative the government would have would be to build and rent houses like they used to do in the last century, Local Authority housing.

This ended up costing them an arm and a leg and causing social problems by concentrating all poor people in one area where they could be readily identified and discriminated against by the moneyed classes and left in the ****. Also having no positive role models in full-time employment as neighbours must have worked wonders for the abilities of the young inhabitants of these housing estates to get work......

Maintenance for these houses was all done by heavily unionised and expensive local authority employees and also cost an arm and a leg. Today the private houses being rented have to be maintained by the landlord out of his own resources and often by him or her self in order to attract and maintain tenants and keep the bank loan paid.

Rents received since the downturn do not meet the costs of providing the house and maintaining it.

Since 2008 the Government have imposed a charge of €200.00 pa on all investment property regardless of how much of the property is owned by the owner, now often negative, the earnings of the owner, many of whom have lost their jobs, or the trading position of the house, often a loss.

The government realise they are losing tax revenue since 2008 because most buy to let housing is now operating at a loss. They also realise that most owners are trapped and cannot sell off their houses to escape from this new imposition. There is nothing to stop the government increasing this new tax until they are kicked out in the next election.

If you were to abolish rent allowance many more properties would be abandoned as their owners would have no income with which to pay their loans. Many people would become homeless and clog up the emergency shelter, B and B etc system such as it exists in this country ( minimal).
You could even have the case of bank pursuing former owners for the monies due on their rental properties by taking possession of their principal residences, forcing them to become homeless as well.

Rents received do not meet the loans outstanding on most homes and there is now a large subsidy being paid out by landlords in the hope of surviving the bad times and making an income in the good times. THe hope of most is to have a modest pension in the future when they can no longer work in the formal economy. Even this is now begrudged to them.

DrumSteve

how the **** did this end up on rent allowance? How has that got anything to do with the minimum wage???

Happens all the time. mad annoying this derailing ****e. :mad:

Greyfox

DrumSteve wrote: »

how the **** did this end up on rent allowance? How has that got anything to do with the minimum wage???

Happens all the time. mad annoying this derailing ****e. :mad:

Well it would be unfair to reduce the minimum wage without reducing the generous SW we give people due to the fact that some people on the minimum wage aren't that much better off then people on SW.

And if SW is to be reduced many people think Rent allowance would be a good place to cut. If it was reduced or done away with completely it would automatically reduce the average cost of rent for everyone that's paying rent

Ren2k7

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In fairness, that's an over-simplification.

Some things have gone down, but many have gone up significantly, at the very least counter-balancing those reduced - including fuel, insurance, tax, etc.

The only thing that's really gone up regarding consumer spending is fuel, mainly thanks to tax increases and more on the way most likely. From personal experience i've seen my car insurance fall significantly as well as rental accommodation prices plummet.

Ireland has the second highest minimum wage levels in the EU, yet we're in a deflationary economy. Small businesses are feeling the brunt of high wage costs forcing many out of business so reducing the minimum wage would be a major boost to the economy.

Mister men

chilloutman wrote: »

the minimum wage should be a lot lower and hopefully it would create a few more jobs what ya think?

Oh for feck sake. How in God's name can someone survive on 8.65 an hour. I thought the minimum wage was at least 10 quid an hour.

Mister men

Ren2k7 wrote: »

The only thing that's really gone up regarding consumer spending is fuel, mainly thanks to tax increases and more on the way most likely. From personal experience i've seen my car insurance fall significantly as well as rental accommodation prices plummet.

Ireland has the second highest minimum wage levels in the EU, yet we're in a deflationary economy. Small businesses are feeling the brunt of high wage costs forcing many out of business so reducing the minimum wage would be a major boost to the economy.

Love to know where you shop. My insurance,rent,food bills,fuel costs have all gone up in the last couple of years. I think we are seeing a huge push from the higher paid captains of industry to lower the wages of the working man throughout the country. It's disgusting.

Ren2k7

Mister men wrote: »

Love to know where you shop. My insurance,rent,food bills,fuel costs have all gone up in the last couple of years.

I'm not sure why you would be paying more for goods and services apart of course for fuel, especially with falling prices.

The one thing i learned from the days of the rip off republic was to shop around as much as possible. I would often get motor insurance renewals from my existing insurer that would be higher than what i would already be paying so i'd simply switch to a different provider. I've never renewed with the same insurer.

I also generally only shop at lidl and aldi. There are a lot of bargains to be had these days with falling prices across the board. The Irish have became used to high wages resulting in a loss of competitiveness to other countries and if we are to bounce back then we'll all, unfortunately, have to work for less.

RonMexico

It is way too high, as is social welfare. There is nothing special about Ireland to warrant the rate of either.

Now I do feel that the recently unemployed deserve support, they have earned that. BUT there is a whole section of society in this country who are long term social welfare users, they are professional spongers and contribute nothing to the country.

The amount of people I know on social welfare who are going on not one, but two foreign holidays this summer is fcukin ridiculous. Then they have the cheek to complain about the amount of social welfare they get, after spending most of it every week on their ration of fags, booze and drugs. This country has allowed a whole section of society to sponge off the hardworking people. Enough is enough. If you don't believe me then just stand outside any off-license on social welfare day - you can pick them out with their bags of Carling.

They should be taken out back and shot like rats.
They are vermin and should be treated as such.

wiseguy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In fairness, that's an over-simplification.

Some things have gone down, but many have gone up significantly, at the very least counter-balancing those reduced - including fuel, insurance, tax, etc.

Actually the things that went up as per last few CSO inflation reports

are Energy, Health and Education

All are controlled to a large degree by the state and unions


But of course as a Labour supporter you miss that vital point (deliberately?)

The Big Red Button

Mister men wrote: »

Oh for feck sake. How in God's name can someone survive on 8.65 an hour. I thought the minimum wage was at least 10 quid an hour.

Assuming it's full-time hours, how could someone not survive on it?

You're not going to have the most extravagant lifestyle, but you could definitely live comfortably on it. And it works out at well over a hundred euro more a week than you'd get from SW, and plenty of people manage to survive on that.

Mister men

chatterpillar wrote: »

Assuming it's full-time hours, how could someone not survive on it?

You're not going to have the most extravagant lifestyle, but you could definitely live comfortably on it. And it works out at well over a hundred euro more a week than you'd get from SW, and plenty of people manage to survive on that.

Live comfortably on it.
Okay let's say you are "lucky" enough to work a 39 hour week at minimum wage
337.35 a week wages before tax and PRSI.
Your rent is 1100 a month for an average 1 bedroom city apartment (253 a week)
That leaves between 70-75 a week for food,cloths,social life,electric,gas,pension contribution,phone etc...
That's comfortable now is it. It's no wonder people just stay on the dole with wages like that what with the rent paid etc....
What we need is a lowering of social welfare and hiring of the minimum wage to make it worthwhile for people to go out and work. Lowering the minimum wage is just pissing in the wind.

The Big Red Button

Mister men wrote: »

Live comfortably on it.
Okay let's say you are "lucky" enough to work a 39 hour week at minimum wage
337.35 a week wages before tax and PRSI.
Your rent is 1100 a month for an average 1 bedroom city apartment (253 a week)
That leaves between 70-75 a week for food,cloths,social life,electric,gas,pension contribution,phone etc...
That's comfortable now is it. It's no wonder people just stay on the dole with wages like that what with the rent paid etc....
What we need is a lowering of social welfare and hiring of the minimum wage to make it worthwhile for people to go out and work. Lowering the minimum wage is just pissing in the wind.

If you are on minimum wage, you will not be spending 1100 a month on rent, that's just ridiculous. Maybe 400-500 max for a house share.

I'm on just slightly above the minimum wage, and I spend 550 on rent for a very very nice city centre apartment that I share with one friend. I also run a car, go on holidays, go shopping, and have a social life. As well as paying all my bills.

You have to be careful and budget your money, but it's definitely doable. I would consider myself to have a relatively comfortable lifestyle.

Denerick

Mister men wrote: »

Live comfortably on it.
Okay let's say you are "lucky" enough to work a 39 hour week at minimum wage
337.35 a week wages before tax and PRSI.
Your rent is 1100 a month for an average 1 bedroom city apartment (253 a week)
That leaves between 70-75 a week for food,cloths,social life,electric,gas,pension contribution,phone etc...
That's comfortable now is it. It's no wonder people just stay on the dole with wages like that what with the rent paid etc....
What we need is a lowering of social welfare and hiring of the minimum wage to make it worthwhile for people to go out and work. Lowering the minimum wage is just pissing in the wind.

I wouldn't pay 1100 a month on rent if I was a multi millionaire. Thats ludicrous money to be paying.

Shop around and you will get a box room in Dublin for 250 a month. 340 a week is good enough to live on. Just don't expect to go on too many foreign holidays and get used to shopping in Lidl.

danbohan

meditraitor wrote: »

€6.95 is brutal,

absolutely agree its far too high .

Head The Wall

Mister men wrote: »

Live comfortably on it.
Okay let's say you are "lucky" enough to work a 39 hour week at minimum wage
337.35 a week wages before tax and PRSI.
Your rent is 1100 a month for an average 1 bedroom city apartment (253 a week)
That leaves between 70-75 a week for food,cloths,social life,electric,gas,pension contribution,phone etc...
That's comfortable now is it. It's no wonder people just stay on the dole with wages like that what with the rent paid etc....
What we need is a lowering of social welfare and hiring of the minimum wage to make it worthwhile for people to go out and work. Lowering the minimum wage is just pissing in the wind.

Not everyone lives in Dublin, you also have to live within your means and if you are on minimum wage and spending 1100 on rent you are doing it all wrong. You're not entitled to live like you are expecting to if thats all you earn

rubberdiddies

Mister men wrote: »

Live comfortably on it.

What we need is a lowering of social welfare and hiring of the minimum wage to make it worthwhile for people to go out and work. Lowering the minimum wage is just pissing in the wind.

If minimum wage was increased, many many many more businesses will go to the wall, resulting in a lot less jobs.

In my opinion if min wage was lowered, it might encourage companies to take on some more staff, which in turn puts more money in peoples pockets and more money back into the economy.

If people arent happy with minimum wage then they should look to retrain themselves (if at all possible) to get away from minimum wage, however it is certainly enough to live on (provided you dont expect to spend it on cigarettes, too much drink, drugs or gambling)!

RichardAnd

I did a 6 month internship in 2009 where I was paid 9 euro an hour by my employer for a 40 hour week. This totalled 360 a week (40 hours) and I found it to be more than I needed to cover my needs. For anyone who is interested, my expenses were as follows (for a month).

Rent: 290eur.
Food: 100-150eur.
Utilities: ~70eur (it was summer so no heating).
Petrol: 120eur
Luxuries: <100eur.
Misc: <100eur

So that gives a total of 830 out of 1440 that I earned each month, and that's taking the highest values for each expense. This wasn't living off potatoes and milk, I was comfortable and I had plenty of reserve cash if I wanted/needed something. Thus, I could have gotten this down by about one hundred or so euro by cutting back on luxury items and other things.

Min wage is tight to live on but it's more than doable so in my opinion, there is room to reduce it. Granted, this is as a single guy with no kids but if you don't waste money on things like drink, socialising and smoking, you should have enough to get by fairly comfortably.

But I will stress, if min wage goes down, SW must go down even further.

saol alainn

Wouldn't it make more sense to reduce social welfare when there are jobs to be had? It's so easy to say 'they should be working'. I'm sure the vast majority wish it was as simple as that.

As for the minimum wage, I'd agree with a wage freeze, from top to bottom, and bonuses done away with. If there were to be bonuses, they'd just be awarded to those with lower pay. That way no-one would snub their nose at the minimum wage and productivity might actually go up. The savings made with abolishing top-earners' bonuses could then be ploughed back into the business. And everyone's a winner. :pac:

Denerick

The problem with minimum wage is not the wage but the hours. Nobody will work 25 hours a week at minimum wage if they can get more from social welfare. I wouldn't blame them.

RichardAnd

Denerick wrote: »

The problem with minimum wage is not the wage but the hours. Nobody will work 25 hours a week at minimum wage if they can get more from social welfare. I wouldn't blame them.

I would happily work 25 hours a week for minimum wage rather than stand in a line waiting for a handout and I would say I am not the only one who thinks that.

Denerick

RichardAnd wrote: »

I would happily work 25 hours a week for minimum wage rather than stand in a line waiting for a handout and I would say I am not the only one who thinks that.

Out of honour, yes, but it is fundamentally irrational to work for money you could have earned by doing nothing.

IMO, the solution lies in means testing the dole and reducing it over all. Allowing people who work part time to keep some benefits might be beneficial too.

saol alainn

RichardAnd wrote: »

I would happily work 25 hours a week for minimum wage rather than stand in a line waiting for a handout and I would say I am not the only one who thinks that.

Everyone has their own circumstance to consider. If you're single, 25 hours at the minimum wage could be enough, especially if still living with the parents. It definitely would for me. But not if you're the sole wage earner with a family to raise.

RichardAnd

RichardAnd wrote: »

Rent: 290eur.
Food: 100-150eur.
Utilities: ~70eur (it was summer so no heating).
Petrol: 120eur
Luxuries: <100eur.
Misc: <100eur
.

The car that you put the petrol in bought, insured, maintained and taxed itself did it ? :rolleyes: Or did Mummy or Daddy let you borrow theirs ?

RichardAnd

RoverJames wrote: »

The car that you put the petrol in bought, insured, maintained and taxed itself did it ? :rolleyes: Or did Mummy or Daddy let you borrow theirs ?

Despite that being a rather asinine comment I will entertain it. The "misc" expenses each month covered things like that.

Welease

Denerick wrote: »

Out of honour, yes, but it is fundamentally irrational to work for money you could have earned by doing nothing.

If your intention is to remain on the bottom rung of society financially then yes, but for those who intend on getting some experience and being paid more over time, then there is more than enough incentive to go out and find work.

Denerick

Welease wrote: »

If your intention is to remain on the bottom rung of society financially then yes, but for those who intend on getting some experience and being paid more over time, then there is more than enough incentive to go out and find work.

You are choosing not to understand my comment. If a skilled person *e.g, someone with a Masters in engineering and 5 years of experience in a major firm* can make the same money from the dole as working 25 hours per week in Lidl... Well, I know which is the more rational choice (IE, stay out of work while continuing to look for skilled employment)

Wheras if the said person had a rational motive to work 25 hours a week (Ie is allowed to keep some benefits) obviously that person will do so.

RichardAnd

Denerick wrote: »

You are choosing not to understand my comment. If a skilled person *e.g, someone with a Masters in engineering and 5 years of experience in a major firm* can make the same money from the dole as working 25 hours per week in Lidl... Well, I know which is the more rational choice (IE, stay out of work while continuing to look for skilled employment)

Wheras if the said person had a rational motive to work 25 hours a week (Ie is allowed to keep some benefits) obviously that person will do so.

To be fair, you could still look for employment whilst working part time. I'd also point out that someone as qualified as the example you've given probably wouldn't get a job in Lidl simple as they would be over qualified.

Welease

Denerick wrote: »

You are choosing not to understand my comment. If a skilled person *e.g, someone with a Masters in engineering and 5 years of experience in a major firm* can make the same money from the dole as working 25 hours per week in Lidl... Well, I know which is the more rational choice (IE, stay out of work while continuing to look for skilled employment)

Wheras if the said person had a rational motive to work 25 hours a week (Ie is allowed to keep some benefits) obviously that person will do so.

I am not choosing to misunderstand your comment, your point is not being made clearly enough..

You state

Denerick wrote: »

The problem with minimum wage is not the wage but the hours. Nobody will work 25 hours a week at minimum wage if they can get more from social welfare. I wouldn't blame them.

Only in your last response, do you limit nobody to "someone with a Masters in engineering and 5 years of experience in a major firm".. There is a major difference.

Denerick

Fair enough. But few will work those kind of hours for so little money. Its human nature.

That said if I was offered 25 hours per week somewhere at the moment I'd bite their hand off before they could think twice about it

thebman

The problem isn't just that few will work for little more than dole but moreso how motivated they are to do the work which will have an effect on their productivity for their employer.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was working part time meant you could claim partial dole?

Greyfox

RichardAnd wrote: »

I'd also point out that someone as qualified as the example you've given probably wouldn't get a job in Lidl simple as they would be over qualified.

Yeah but the point been is if he could get this job is would seem incredibly stupid to work in a job you don't like for 25 hours when you can just stay at home or do anything else and you'll be able to earn the same amount of money. Their has to be at least some financial incentive to work as how can you ever expect someone to want to work for free if theirs going to be no reward

K-9

chilloutman wrote: »

the minimum wage should be a lot lower and hopefully it would create a few more jobs what ya think?

It might help some but I always get the feeling it is over stated:

rightwingdub

The minimum wage should be cut to €6.50 per hour. Its far too high in this country but welfare should be cut to €150 per week, welfare is far too generous in this country and needs to be reduced.

In Dublin people can rent out rooms for less than €300 these days.

Denerick

rightwingdub wrote: »

The minimum wage should be cut to €6.50 per hour. Its far too high in this country but welfare should be cut to €150 per week, welfare is far too generous in this country and needs to be reduced.

In Dublin people can rent out rooms for less than €300 these days.

Thats rather mild for a right winger. Good luck in trying to tell 14% of this country that they need a 40 euro per week pay cut.

Ren2k7

I think its important to recognise that there needs to be a balance struck between providing a reasonable wage for workers and ensuring business costs are kept low.

If workers are paid too little consumer spending will be impacted, further hampering growth prospects. But if wage levels are too high as is the case at the moment businesses will find it difficult to maintain profit margins and again hamper growth.

As the suggestion of a minimum wage cut is considered politically unfeasable then at the very least a freeze in the minimum wage needs to be maintained for at least 5 years but preferably until the end of the decade given how long and sluggish the nations growth rate will be.