Electric Picnic Competition - poorly run

louloumc89

Just looking for a few thoughts on this competition. Laois bands for electric picnic have campaigned to get a slot in electric picnic for a local band. There were two main people organising it. Basically the bands were shortlisted after a local showcase, and the top 20 went to semi finals heats.

Last night was the third heat.The sound guy was so clueless, like I can't even explain. Constant screeching noise coming out of the pa, monitors all ****ed up, barely any vocals, just dire. The first three bands were pissed off with the sound. Next thing the sound guy hops on stage, he's the lead singer in the last band! They don't need a sound check, he has all their settings perfect. They play without a single bit of feedback, nothing, flawless sound, with the same pa that had everyone else inaudiable. Obviously they won. No other band had a chance. Not only that, but it was all local, so everybody had their friends and that there, and the bands weren't even allowed to play a decent gig.

So what does anybody think? Is it just typical of competitions like this? There seems to be no point to complain to them or the electric picnic. I think the organisers knew they'd ****ed up because they got eaten by a bunch of people not with bands. They thought the whole thing was a joke and that there was a massive conflict of interest with the sound guy being in the last band. Oh yea, the last band won the competition.

DrumSteve

always happens man i wouldnt worry about it.

FinoBlad

LouLou this is sounding like a bit of a rant to be honest. Of course everyone was local thats the idea, it's a local band competition and of course they brought their friends, you did too. Play more gigs in Laois and you will have as many or more fans.

I am sorry you are very negative about your performance, everyone I spoke to was very positive about your set. I'm not sure what you hope to gain from criticising Joe like this but if you want to discuss this offline next week you know how to contact me.

Fintan

Oh and the first band on won the last heat.

Malice

DrumSteve wrote: »

always happens man i wouldnt worry about it.

louloumc89 is a girl .

louloumc89 wrote:

the last band won the competition.

FinoBlad wrote:

Oh and the first band on won the last heat.

Is the last heat the same as the competition? If not then you haven't refuted louloumc89's point.

louloumc89

FinoBlad wrote: »

LouLou this is sounding like a bit of a rant to be honest. Of course everyone was local thats the idea, it's a local band competition and of course they brought their friends, you did too. Play more gigs in Laois and you will have as many or more fans.

I am sorry you are very negative about your performance, everyone I spoke to was very positive about your set. I'm not sure what you hope to gain from criticising Joe like this but if you want to discuss this offline next week you know how to contact me.

We know we brought our mates, we were upset because we weren't even given a chance to play a decent gig. A bunch of randomers came up to me and bitched about the sound, said it was unfair we weren't given a chance. One guy actually could not believe it when the sound guy jumped on stage and started singing with the last band to perfect sound.

Perhaps this is coming across as a bit of a rant, but I am interested to see how other people feel about the circumstances, and what they would do in my situation. I understand you don't want bad publicity, even if it is just a post on boards, but at the same time, I am literally only talking about something that happened to my band last night and looking for a few thoughts from other posters. God knows that since the organisers write for the paper, there won't be a decent write up of the sham of a gig that happened last night.

Maybe the sound guy just wasn't used to doing sound for a punk band, or a rock band, but how can an acoustic singer end up sounding like that? I've seen bonnefires before and he's normally excellent. I am not blaming the band who did sound either. He was in a competition, I want to know how the organisers of the competition think it's fair to have him decide how the other bands sound, especially when he said he's not even a sound guy. I felt sorry for him, and the amount of people I saw eating the face off him.

This is supposed to be a thing to support Laois bands, and give them a leg up by playing the electric picnic. Making a dig that we don't gig around Laois often enough is stupid. The reason we can't gig in Laois is because the only bands pubs around here are interested in are cover bands or trad music. I've been living here the past two years and I've had to travel to go see any original band I'm interested in. It goes to show by the fact that the big new music venue in town doesn't even have a pa or a sound guy.

I'm not sure what your motives were about campaigning for such a good slot at electric picnic, but surely if you were out to support laois music you would have had a small tent set up for some of the 40 odd acts that entered the contest? It seems like a predetermined contest, where a new band, or a band who aren't connected, have no hope. And I think nothing of that, having friends judge friends is expected, but having the winning band ruin the sound, intentionally or otherwise, for all the other bands in the heat is downright fowl play, and judging by the outrage of some of the punters last night, I'm sure there's a lot more that would agree with that.

louloumc89

Malice_ wrote: »

Is the last heat the same as the competition? If not then you haven't refuted louloumc89's point.

Cheers for that. Yes he's talking about a different heat, I'm not sure why. The sound guy was in the last band last night, and they won.

FinoBlad

Malice_ wrote: »

Is the last heat the same as the competition? If not then you haven't refuted louloumc89's point.

Yea to clarify what I posted, LouLou's band performed in Heat 3 of the competition won by the last band to play, in the last Heat 2, the winner of that heat was the first band that played.

louloumc89

FinoBlad wrote: »

Yea to clarify what I posted, LouLou's band performed in Heat 3 of the competition won by the last band to play, in the last Heat 2, the winner of that heat was the first band that played.

I don't see why that's relevant, we decided amongst ourselves the stage times. I have a problem with the singer from the last band being the sound engineer, not with the fact that they went last.

**Vai**

Who was the last band? The one with the singer/sound engineer.

FinoBlad

Oh ok, I thought you were saying the last band on always wins.

I'm just looking at the video. I didnt judge it but if I did things like in the putting the capo on the wrong fret in the 2nd song then shouting at each other to sort that out mid song looks messy. Then the long dialogue in between songs, standing on the guitar lead pulling it out, losing the vocals when putting it back in (3rd song). This type of thing loses marks

You look like you're all enjoying yourselves in the first few songs, sound eng was right beside you and other than asking for monitor up at one stage nobody is gesturing towards sound.

I'm not going to get into the other stuff.

louloumc89

FinoBlad wrote: »

Oh ok, I thought you were saying the last band on always wins.

I'm just looking at the video. I didnt judge it but if I did things like in the putting the capo on the wrong fret in the 2nd song then shouting at each other to sort that out mid song looks messy. Then the long dialogue in between songs, standing on the guitar lead pulling it out, losing the vocals when putting it back in (3rd song). This type of thing loses marks

You look like you're all enjoying yourselves in the first few songs, sound eng was right beside you and other than asking for monitor up at one stage nobody is gesturing towards sound.

Woah, nit picking at our mistakes is really nice of you, it really shows the professional competition that you are running here. Nice one. Actually the singer started playing the wrong song. We had a laugh about it! You might notice in between songs me speaking to the sound engineer, or gesturing to him while I'm singing, shaking my head, constantly trying to make eye contact with him.

To be quite honest Fintan, we were ****ting a brick for the first few songs, coz we knew we sounded like ****. We had no monitor, our lead singer was pissed off as hell with the sound guy, her vocals were drowned out by just noise. Squashed on that tiny stage we didn't set up, with leads all over the shop. We hardly ever get to gig in front of our mates in Laois, as nowhere has a pa or wants original bands. But we realised that every band sounded like ****, and after a couple of songs we just said **** it, let's just play with the massive screeches coming off the stage. Of course they dissapeared for the last band, and magically their vocals were nice and high.

We weren't happy on stage for the first song or two, fair enough, but like loosing vocals because of a wire...we barely had vocals full stop! Somebody pointed out to me that when her guitar came out, you couldn't even tell because of the screeching! Joke

Yea but seriously Fintan...nice professional job your doing nit picking at a couple of mistakes we made! Great show your putting on here.

FinoBlad

**Vai** wrote: »

Who was the last band? The one with the singer/sound engineer.

The Keepers

FinoBlad

I think your average judge is going to score you on your performance, if the sound isnt perfect for everyone that isnt your fault, allowances can be made and I suspect the things I mentioned may have been factor in your scores.

GazPat

To the fact that Organiser (Fino Bald) or whatever was picking out faults with LouLouMc's set is just the start.

Yeah they made a couple of mistakes or so I gather from you post, so what, why bring it up without answering her question, If your going to slate her back up your own argument first, sounds to me like you are trying to cover your arse by slagging them off.

It is fairly well known(At least I thought) that anybody involved with a competition or even family members of organisers can not enter the competition because it would make them look silly and like cheaters if said person ever one.

Now how does it not matter that the fact the Sound Engineer's band won. He was heavily involved in the event and basically decided the event by giving other bands poor quality sound.

It may not be a fix (Although highly unlikely in my opinion) but even still for the organisers own sake cover your arse.

In summary the organiser looks amateur and by his comments not a very nice guy to deal with.

Maybe your better off not winning the comp. Sounds like they would have found out another way to F*ck you over.

*Rant over*

louloumc89

FinoBlad wrote: »

I think your average judge is going to score you on your performance, if the sound isnt perfect for everyone that isnt your fault, allowances can be made and I suspect the things I mentioned may have been factor in your scores.

Well I suspect the things you mentioned may have a little something to do with the fact we were cramped on a messy wired stage where we couldn't hear ourselves shout over the feedback and very poor sound. It wasn't a fact of the sound being far from perfect...it was a fact of the sound being unbearable. We put on smiles and tried to look like we weren't playing with the worst sound of our careers in music. I'm glad you seemed to think you were enjoying ourselves.

You should have splashed out 80 quid for an impartial, and perhaps qualified sound guy, you could have used the money you were charging people to vote for the wildcard.

**Vai**

GazPat wrote: »

To the fact that Organiser (Fino Bald) or whatever was picking out faults with LouLouMc's set is just the start.

Yeah they made a couple of mistakes or so I gather from you post, so what, why bring it up without answering her question, If your going to slate her back up your own argument first, sounds to me like you are trying to cover your arse by slagging them off.

It is fairly well known(At least I thought) that anybody involved with a competition or even family members of organisers can not enter the competition because it would make them look silly and like cheaters if said person ever one.

Now how does it not matter that the fact the Sound Engineer's band won. He was heavily involved in the event and basically decided the event by giving other bands poor quality sound.

It may not be a fix (Although highly unlikely in my opinion) but even still for the organisers own sake cover your arse.

In summary the organiser looks amateur and by his comments not a very nice guy to deal with.

Maybe your better off not winning the comp. Sounds like they would have found out another way to F*ck you over.

*Rant over*

When have u ever known anyone to be happy with a battle of the bands? Having played quite a few of them, every band except the winner always comes away with bad feelings. Bitching about it on a public forum just looks bad.

louloumc89

**Vai** wrote: »

When have u ever known anyone to be happy with a battle of the bands? Having played quite a few of them, every band except the winner always comes away with bad feelings. Bitching about it on a public forum just looks bad.

I've played a few battle of the bands and not won...they were fun nights! I've never had bad feelings after them, nor has anyone in the band. It's like playing a football match, I never mind loosing...but if the bloody referee is actually a player on the other team, I'd have a porblem. Same story here.

GazPat

**Vai** wrote: »

When have u ever known anyone to be happy with a battle of the bands? Having played quite a few of them, every band except the winner always comes away with bad feelings. Bitching about it on a public forum just looks bad.

When have you ever heard of the sound engineer being the last act of the night and when all other bands got crap sound his band got great sound and won the event.

Get real man it was fix

DrumSteve

Malice_ wrote: »

louloumc89 is a girl .

Always happens man i wouldnt worry about it.

**Vai**

Ive played at worse. I dont believe it was a fix for a second. All your going on is one persons word. Its a well run competition for local bands far as I can see. And no, Im not in the winning band.

Sunny86

Was simply the worst sound i have ever heard at a gig. But the fact the sound guy jumped up on stage after killing the first 3 acts, was a complete an utter farce. Can see how the acts might be rightly pissed off.

GazPat

**Vai** wrote: »

Ive played at worse. I dont believe it was a fix for a second. All your going on is one persons word. Its a well run competition for local bands far as I can see. And no, Im not in the winning band.

How do you explain the poor sound for every other act apart from the winning act...

Even if it was not a fix, Even if your man wasn't a proper engineer the organisers were at fault and there has been massive confusion and dissapointment, how can you say it's a well run competition then..

Come on, get real.

A well run competition is one that runs seamlessly and without complaint..
And normally the winner has no involvement with it

louloumc89

**Vai** wrote: »

Ive played at worse. I dont believe it was a fix for a second. All your going on is one persons word. Its a well run competition for local bands far as I can see. And no, Im not in the winning band.

Man I wouldn't make something up! A lot of people complained, the organisers got a lot of stick last night from bands, randomers...everyone was giving out stink. The opening band bebob and rocksteady actually used the word 'atrocious' to describe our sound. Of course something like this will probably never surface, it sure won't make the papers in this nice little competition that was NOT campaigned to get for no reason...and the reason had nothing to do with giving bands like the first three acts a shot at playing their local massive festival.

DrumSteve

louloumc89 wrote: »

Man I wouldn't make something up! A lot of people complained, the organisers got a lot of stick last night from bands, randomers...everyone was giving out stink. The opening band bebob and rocksteady actually used the word 'atrocious' to describe our sound. Of course something like this will probably never surface, it sure won't make the papers in this nice little competition that was NOT campaigned to get for no reason...and the reason had nothing to do with giving bands like the first three acts a shot at playing their local massive festival.

whats the name of your band?

**Vai**

GazPat wrote: »

How do you explain the poor sound for every other act apart from the winning act...

A wizard did it!

Wasnt there but knowing some of these guys from around the town I doubt very much it was a fix. And getting on to one of the organisers in this way isnt the way to complain.

GazPat

**Vai** wrote: »

A wizard did it!QUOTE]

Very mature.. I have nothing to do with any of the bands that played the festival, I read the posts and decided to put in my two cents.

You know the guys so it wasn't a fix.. Thats good enough for me, IT WAS A FIX

A Primal Nut

**Vai** wrote: »

A wizard did it!

Wasnt there but knowing some of these guys from around the town I doubt very much it was a fix. And getting on to one of the organisers in this way isnt the way to complain.

The fact you know them is yet another conflict of interest and makes your opinion even more irrelevant.

The sound engineer playing in a band entering the competition is a rediculous conflict of interest by any standards. Nobody responding in favour of the organisers has addressed how that happened. It can either be an honest mistake (whoever chose the sound engineer didn't know he was also in one of the bands), a fix (they did it on purpose), or a display of complete stupidity (they didn't realise it might be a problem).

**Vai**

GazPat wrote: »

**Vai** wrote: »

A wizard did it!QUOTE]

Very mature.. I have nothing to do with any of the bands that played the festival, I read the posts and decided to put in my two cents.

You know the guys so it wasn't a fix.. Thats good enough for me, IT WAS A FIX

So your reason for assuming its a fix is because I know some of the people involved? You're no Columbo.

GazPat

Well you and FinoBald are saying "Ah evrything is hunky dory thats just they way these things go"

Man that bull**** explain how the sound engineer was aloud to enter the competition, if you explain that people might take a step back and say hey maybe it was a mix up,

But coming back with stupid childish answers just looks poor on your behalf mate.

I know im no columbo but it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to work out that something is a bit dodgy here

**Vai**

GazPat wrote: »

Well you and FinoBald are saying "Ah evrything is hunky dory thats just they way these things go"

Man that bull**** explain how the sound engineer was aloud to enter the competition, if you explain that people might take a step back and say hey maybe it was a mix up,

But coming back with stupid childish answers just looks poor on your behalf mate.

I have refrained from personally insulting you so I'd appreciate the same courtesy, mate.
I dont know what happened (I literally have as little to do with it as you do), all Ive said was that knowing these people I very much doubt it was a fix. And that if complaints were to be made this is not the place to do it. Thats what phones and email are for. Coming on here for a bitching session is obviously what was first to mind for this girl, as opposed to doing something about it.

GazPat

**Vai** wrote: »

I have refrained from personally insulting you so I'd appreciate the same courtesy, mate.
I dont know what happened (I literally have as little to do with it as you do), all Ive said was that knowing these people I very much doubt it was a fix. And that if complaints were to be made this is not the place to do it. Thats what phones and email are for. Coming on here for a bitching session is obviously what was first to mind for this girl, as opposed to doing something about it.

If I insulted you I apologise, as I thought your comment was whatever, I didn't mean to insult you, im not an idiot who slags people of on a keyboard so apologies there dude..

But it sounds like your sticking up for them the facts on this thread make the competition looki like a pure joke, look at it from an outsiders perspective

louloumc89

**Vai** wrote: »

I have refrained from personally insulting you so I'd appreciate the same courtesy, mate.
I dont know what happened (I literally have as little to do with it as you do), all Ive said was that knowing these people I very much doubt it was a fix. And that if complaints were to be made this is not the place to do it. Thats what phones and email are for. Coming on here for a bitching session is obviously what was first to mind for this girl, as opposed to doing something about it.

I'd appreciate if you'd show me the same courtest then, mate. Instead of personally insulting me. Cheers.

I did complain to the organisers, as you can see from the posts above, it went nowhere. They are running a dodgy show, they couldn't care less about my complaint. This thread is going to be the extent of what people get to hear about the sham of a show these guys are running. I personally think people deserve to know what's going on.

Orando Broom

They should have ran around the room after the judge and tried to punch him. I saw it happen on telly recently.

That competition sounds like a broke dick operation from start to finish. The bands should have walked out as should their supporters.

**Vai**

GazPat wrote: »

If I insulted you I apologise, as I thought your comment was whatever, I didn't mean to insult you, im not an idiot who slags people of on a keyboard so apologies there dude..

But it sounds like your sticking up for them the facts on this thread make the competition looki like a pure joke, look at it from an outsiders perspective

No bother. I know what u mean but I really have nothing to do with this, didnt even know it was on until I saw this thread.

GazPat

louloumc89 wrote: »

I'd appreciate if you'd show me the same courtest then, mate. Instead of personally insulting me. Cheers.

I did complain to the organisers, as you can see from the posts above, it went nowhere. They are running a dodgy show, they couldn't care less about my complaint. This thread is going to be the extent of what people get to hear about the sham of a show these guys are running. I personally think people deserve to know what's going on.

I wouldn't be overly worried about it though, I know it sucks and all, but look on the brightside, if your man had to fix the sound he thought his band was not good enough so they probably won't win, I know thats not a comfort but feck it get back on the horse and don't deal with the said dodgy organisers again..

**Vai**

louloumc89 wrote: »

I'd appreciate if you'd show me the same courtest then, mate. Instead of personally insulting me. Cheers.

I did complain to the organisers, as you can see from the posts above, it went nowhere. They are running a dodgy show, they couldn't care less about my complaint. This thread is going to be the extent of what people get to hear about the sham of a show these guys are running. I personally think people deserve to know what's going on.

Not meant to be insulting thats just how it looked to me, apologies, I obviously missed the bit about complaining to the organisers.

**Vai**

Orando Broom wrote: »

They should have ran around the room after the judge and tried to punch him. I saw it happen on telly recently.

Thats how all competitions should end from now on.

super_furry

How on earth can any competition that claims to take itself seriously leave itself open to such accusations? Having one of the competing band members responsible for all the other bands sound is idiocy at best and cheating at worst.

louloumc89

GazPat wrote: »

I wouldn't be overly worried about it though, I know it sucks and all, but look on the brightside, if your man had to fix the sound he thought his band was not good enough so they probably won't win, I know thats not a comfort but feck it get back on the horse and don't deal with the said dodgy organisers again..

Ah yea, thanks man! A mate of ours said the same thing. I think I'm just going to let it go like, no point, even if they did redo the heat. I really don't want to be involved in the competition after the way the organiser (Fino Bald) is dealing with it. Feck it

Fandango

louloumc89 wrote: »

I don't see why that's relevant, we decided amongst ourselves the stage times. I have a problem with the singer from the last band being the sound engineer, not with the fact that they went last.

Cant help but agree here. First off, i wasnt there so im only commenting from an outside perspective but surely the sound engineer should be completely neutral in the competition. Firstly to take away any chance of sabotage (not saying this happenned but always a chance if the engineer has a personal interest in it) and secondly as he obviously knows his own bands sound like the back of his hand which gives them a massive unfair advantage.

As i said, i wasnt there so no idea if the best band won or not, but does sound very dodgy having an entrant responsible for the sound.

HeartShake

Having not been there and judging it purely on these posts, something has stood out to me; the organisers and people who are defending them have yet to address the fact that the sound man was in the last band and the sound for the previous bands were terrible.

Aside from allegations of fixes and conspiracies; that's the main point and it's the only point that matters.

While I don't doubt the promoters had good intentions, that fact alone means the competition has a big shadow over it.

irish_star

Well everyone I was there last night, It was a total shambles, In fact the most unprofessional venue I have ever been to, The winning band deserved to win they where (very good), Unfortunately their success was darkly shadowed due to the fact they where the only group of the night with good quality sound, and the sound guy was the lead singer.

It is NOT the sound guys fault it is the silly people who organised the event, Looking at the way one of them responded to Lulou just shows the lack of maturity and professionalism. The sound was PURE MUCK for three of the acts my ears hurt badly for ages after because of the feed back.

LYDIABANK

I was there myself last night. I definitely believe there was a conflict of interest with the sound engineer being involved with the last band, i thought it looked absolutely awful when the sound engineer got up on stage, my boyfriend and i really couldnt believe it. It just looked terrible. To be fair , i did see a number of people approach the sound engineer asking him to fix the sound, i can definitely recall 3 people anyway. The organiser of the event is representing Electric Picnic and from reading his previous posts i find his attitude very poor. I know there is constructive criticism but thats not what came across. I do remember the girl band talking in between songs but this just showed there chemistry on stage in my opinion. Bands like to tell a story behind a song and i personally like that. There was definitely a change in sound with the last band, the sound was much more clearer and pure, although they are very good. I don think the 1st 3 bands were given a fair chance.

Fandango

HeartShake wrote: »

Having not been there and judging it purely on these posts, something has stood out to me; the organisers and people who are defending them have yet to address the fact that the sound man was in the last band and the sound for the previous bands were terrible

Spot on!

Fandango

FinoBlad wrote: »

Oh ok, I thought you were saying the last band on always wins.

I'm just looking at the video. I didnt judge it but if I did things like in the putting the capo on the wrong fret in the 2nd song then shouting at each other to sort that out mid song looks messy. Then the long dialogue in between songs, standing on the guitar lead pulling it out, losing the vocals when putting it back in (3rd song). This type of thing loses marks

You look like you're all enjoying yourselves in the first few songs, sound eng was right beside you and other than asking for monitor up at one stage nobody is gesturing towards sound.

I'm not going to get into the other stuff.

Some of those things lose marks alright, however i 100% disagree that dialogue in between songs does. In most competitions crowd interaction is a big part of the marking. I dont know about you, but hearing a band for the first time who just roll through the songs like a CD gets very boring very fast unless they are an outstanding band.

FinoBlad wrote: »

I think your average judge is going to score you on your performance, if the sound isnt perfect for everyone that isnt your fault, allowances can be made and I suspect the things I mentioned may have been factor in your scores.

A talented judge with a great ear and musical knowledge will ignore things affecting the sound outside the bands control. I would guess the average judge will go 100% on what he hears coming through the speakers. Again, i wasnt there so have no idea who or how good the judge was in those aspects but most would be swung in the favour of a band with perfect sound who may or may not be better, to a band that were affected by sound problems out of their control.

irish_star

I have read all the posts over carefully, That guy has no place organizing such an event, he actually came across like some hard done by bully with his response to loulou, she did not deserve a response from him like that. I most certainly will not be attending anything else to do with the event again, truth is I am totally sickened .

GazPat

irish_star wrote: »

I have read all the posts over carefully, That guy has no place organizing such an event, he actually came across like some hard done by bully with his response to loulou, she did not deserve a response from him like that. I most certainly will not be attending anything else to do with the event again, truth is I am totally sickened .

Bit heavy i think, but it was a sham, fact is if it was my promo company I would be on here sticking up for myself..

Obviously the promoter doesn't think boards.ie is not worth paying attention to.. His mistake

Fingers Mcginty

2 questions..........
1) What was the name of the band that won and ...........
2) Any videos online of the aforementioned gigs?

Sunny86

The winners were called the keepers
http://www.myspace.com/thekeeperscelticmusic hats off they are good at what they do, so thats not the issue.

Hope no video's come online cos it won't do any of the acts involved any justice.

Also think the organisers should have issued an apology rather than attempt to dissect one of the acts.

Really think this puts a cloud over the laois bands collective as person over the project is obviously very inexperienced at this kind of thing and obviously needs to brush up on people and media skills reading some of his posts.

I'm sure a simple apology at the start of this thread would have defused the situation but you just threw fuel of the fire.

irish_star

Well said I totally agree

louloumc89

Sunny86 wrote: »

The winners were called the keepers
http://www.myspace.com/thekeeperscelticmusic hats off they are good at what they do, so thats not the issue.

Hope no video's come online cos it won't do any of the acts involved any justice.

Also think the organisers should have issued an apology rather than attempt to dissect one of the acts.

Really think this puts a cloud over the laois bands collective as person over the project is obviously very inexperienced at this kind of thing and obviously needs to brush up on people and media skills reading some of his posts.

I'm sure a simple apology at the start of this thread would have defused the situation but you just threw fuel of the fire.

Probably the best post on this thread. Really spot on I think.