30 Lessons Before You can sit your test. Any Truth in it

ChuckNorrisgod

Just inquiring my friend told me the government are bringing in a mandate since the Donegal Crash.

That ever one must have 30 Driving Lessons done before they go for there driving License.

Ive been putting off driving the last 2 years and I finally decided too go and learn too drive and I hear this.

My Thoughts are I think that goverment are trying too make money quick and doing this too the people is terrible.

Is There any truth in this ?

Your Thoughts........ Please

Iron Hide

people don't need one, never mind 30 driving lessons to know not to drive with seven passengers

antodeco

Its not really a money making scheme, as the the driving instructors will be getting paid. If Im being honest, I think its a fairly good idea, but they need to go one step further. I think it should be 10 lessons before you are allowed to drive a car, and another 10 before you are allowed sit your test.

Only in Ireland can you fail your test dangerously, and still be allowed drive home.

djimi

It wont be 30; 20 is the number being suggested at the moment I suspect if it comes in it will be more like 10.

Proper order if you ask me. At least after 10 hours you should (in theory) have some experience of driving in proper road conditions and know how to conduct yourself in general traffic. The only reason I wouldnt advocate 20 hours is because driving lessons are so expensive I think its unrealistic to expect someone to pay €700 or more on lessons before they can take their test.

Cookie_Monster

I don't suppose there is any chance at all that these new rules will contain the requirement for at least one lesson to be on a skid-pad?

Actually is there anywhere you can go for lessons on a skidpad at the moment?

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I don't suppose there is any chance at all that these new rules will contain the requirement for at least one lesson to be on a skid-pad?

Actually is there anywhere you can go for lessons on a skidpad at the moment?

Wouldn't imagine it would be a requirement, drive responsibly and to the conditions and you shouldn't skid.

Cookie_Monster

RoverJames wrote: »

Wouldn't imagine it would be a requirement, drive responsibly and to the conditions and you shouldn't skid.

In the real world however you should know what to do should if / when you skid for whatever reason. Given the virtually no-one on the road knows what to do at the moment cos they haven't been taught will lead to some accidents being worse than they otherwise may have been.

Its all about learning and being prepared, you can never know enough about how your car and yourself will react to given situation you may encounter.

I for one would feel better with the experience of it in controlled conditions under my belt, just in case. And lets be honest it'd be a lot of fun too.

EoghanConway

djimi wrote: »

The only reason I wouldnt advocate 20 hours is because driving lessons are so expensive I think its unrealistic to expect someone to pay €700 or more on lessons before they can take their test.

They have to spend about €1000 a year on basic insurance once they get their license. Having more lessons would make them better drivers, and would in turn bring that price down. So I'm for it. I'm driving almost 10 years and even I'd rather spend insurance money on lessons with an instructor rather than just flushing it away!

biko

10 lessons sounds good imo. A pro will be able to instruct you better than dad/mum.

djimi

EoghanConway wrote: »

They have to spend about €1000 a year on basic insurance once they get their license. Having more lessons would make them better drivers, and would in turn bring that price down. So I'm for it. I'm driving almost 10 years and even I'd rather spend insurance money on lessons with an instructor rather than just flushing it away!

The problem is that in the short term it wont bring down insurance, so asking someone to pay upwards of €700 for lessons on top of the probably €2000 or more they are already paying on insurance is going to make it very hard for a lot of people who struggle to afford the costs of learning to drive as it is.

And there is no way that even in the medium term the insurance companies are going to let go of the best money spinning exercise they have going at the moment; extorting young drivers for every penny they own while learning to drive. Its a nice idea that more lessons will mean cheaper insurance prices but you just know theyll twist the stats to prevent that from happening.

unkel

There shouldn't be a mandatory minimum, this doesn't make sense. The test should be rigorous though, including losts of motorway driving / joining / exiting.

I think the average number of driving lessons it takes to pass the test in the Netherlands is 60-70 or so. But at least then you'd be a competent and safe, if inexperienced driver.

tommyhaas

djimi wrote: »

The problem is that in the short term it wont bring down insurance, so asking someone to pay upwards of €700 for lessons on top of the probably €2000 or more they are already paying on insurance is going to make it very hard for a lot of people who struggle to afford the costs of learning to drive as it is.

And there is no way that even in the medium term the insurance companies are going to let go of the best money spinning exercise they have going at the moment; extorting young drivers for every penny they own while learning to drive. Its a nice idea that more lessons will mean cheaper insurance prices but you just know theyll twist the stats to prevent that from happening.

I agree with you on that,but what could work is getting L drivers to do an insurance assesment after their lessons, as Quinn/Aon do with bikes. A good grade reduces the premium substantially

Cookie_Monster

unkel wrote: »

I think the average number of driving lessons it takes to pass the test in the Netherlands is 60-70 or so. But at least then you'd be a competent and safe, if inexperienced driver.

but there all maniacs on the road over there...

monkeypants

ChuckNorrisgod wrote: »

Ive been putting off driving the last 2 years and I finally decided too go and learn too drive and I hear this.

Get your learner permit and test booked as soon as possible. Then this won't apply to you if it does come in.

Personally I think it's a good idea. However, I don't think it will change things that much. Certainly it won't prevent another Donegal-type accident. The problem with the standard of driving in this country is more due to arrogance and laziness.

Myrddin

It still doesn't change the fact that a person can book a theory test, pass it, & get into a car possibly without any driving experience whatsoever. The whole system is flawed.

Another typical Irish governement half arsed quick fix policy. Its peoples attitude to driving that needs to change, not this "seen to be taking action" cr@p. Are they honestly saying if the driver of that crash, had of taking 10 driving lessons before he got his full licence, then the crash would have been less likely? Complete bs, and anyone who believes that is not living in reality.

I never took a driving lesson in my life, never took a pre-test either, & I passed my test first time with one minor box ticked. Am I more likely to cause an accident now? Ah Ireland, we really don't have a notion about some things.

monkeypants

EnterNow wrote: »

It still doesn't change the fact that a person can book a theory test, pass it, & get into a car possibly without any driving experience whatsoever.

At least now you're supposed to have a qualified driver in the passenger seat. Is this being enforced by the GS?

djimi

unkel wrote: »

There shouldn't be a mandatory minimum, this doesn't make sense. The test should be rigorous though, including losts of motorway driving / joining / exiting.

I think the average number of driving lessons it takes to pass the test in the Netherlands is 60-70 or so. But at least then you'd be a competent and safe, if inexperienced driver.

I think it makes a lot of sense tbh. At least with a set number of lessons you know that everyone taking their test has at least 10/20 hours of proper driving experience under the supervision of an instructor. At the moment you can take your driving test never having had a lesson or proper instruction in your life. Passing the test means you were able to learn off some rules of the road and have a good enough general car handling ability to be able to pass. It doesnt mean that you are ready or experienced enough to be allowed to drive on your own. At least this would guarantee that all drivers have a certain amount of experience of driving before being allowed to drive on their own.

gu10

EoghanConway wrote: »

They have to spend about €1000 a year on basic insurance once they get their license. Having more lessons would make them better drivers, and would in turn bring that price down. So I'm for it. I'm driving almost 10 years and even I'd rather spend insurance money on lessons with an instructor rather than just flushing it away!

you'd be fierce lucky if it was only 1k. for a girl maybe but for a lad he'd be lucky to get quoted under 2k for anything more than a shopping trolley with a briggs & stratton engine

unkel

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but there all maniacs on the road over there...

Eh?

The Netherlands is about the safest country to drive in the world in terms of deaths per capita. That's quite something given the high population density and the high density of cars per km of road

djimi

EnterNow wrote: »

It still doesn't change the fact that a person can book a theory test, pass it, & get into a car possibly without any driving experience whatsoever. The whole system is flawed.

Another typical Irish governement half arsed quick fix policy. Its peoples attitude to driving that needs to change, not this "seen to be taking action" cr@p. Are they honestly saying if the driver of that crash, had of taking 10 driving lessons before he got his full licence, then the crash would have been less likely? Complete bs, and anyone who believes that is not living in reality.

I never took a driving lesson in my life, never took a pre-test either, & I passed my test first time with one minor box ticked. Am I more likely to cause an accident now? Ah Ireland, we really don't have a notion about some things.

Just because you did it doesnt mean that everyone is that good a driver. I would consider myself a good driver, even when I was learning I had quite a bit of experience of driving around the garden and general car control, but I know I needed a few lessons with an instructor to learn some things I wouldnt have learned on my own.

I agree tho, any measure like this does not change the fact that the roads needs to be policed more strictly, and that rules like the one preventing learner drivers to drive unaccompanied need to be enforced a lot more rigidly.

Cookie_Monster

unkel wrote: »

Eh?

The Netherlands is about the safest country to drive in the world in terms of deaths per capita. That's quite something given the high population density and the high density of cars per km of road

maybe it just on motorways then... not any experience of non motorways in Holland really. The general consensus of friends and family when on holiday in Italy last week was watch out for the Dutch drivers too... just personal experience

Sure you're a dinger at it from all the powersliding you were doing the winter just gone

EoghanConway

gu10 wrote: »

you'd be fierce lucky if it was only 1k. for a girl maybe but for a lad he'd be lucky to get quoted under 2k for anything more than a shopping trolley with a briggs & stratton engine

Like I said I'm driving 10 years now, that was the price I was quoted starting out (it was the most basic of the basic and I had named driver experience). An increase of 100% wouldn't really surprise me.

I do think a defined minimum amount would give the insurance companies less leeway to charge new drivers such amounts. If they had a way to increase prices wouldn't they have already done it? They essentially have a captive audiance, given the deplorable state of Irish public transport.

Its reported at a minimum of 20 lessons and have your Permit for 6 months before you can sit your test.

Will probably be 10 as anymore are just a waste, speaking from experience btw, driving test is different for everyone, i failed the first time as the nerves got to me and the instructor was a complete and utter mong, brought me out for only 15 minutes before bringing me back, supposed to give you 45 btw.

2nd time i failed at the last roundabout, if it wasn't for a tit coming flying around just as i entered and he jammed on his horn as well which made it look worse so i got a grade 3. Was gutted but i would have passed if i had of just waited.

3rd time round i just took my time, didn't get nervous and passed with only 2 grade 1's.

Nerve's play a huge part tbf, on my last few lesson's the instructor was telling me i was a great driver, just that my nerve's kicked in on the day and ruined it.

I remember 2 years ago tho, just when i passed, they were going to be cracking down on learner drivers and them driving on there own and without L plates. Seem's like it never got enforced. Such a joke.

Myrddin

djimi wrote: »

Just because you did it doesnt mean that everyone is that good a driver. I would consider myself a good driver, even when I was learning I had quite a bit of experience of driving around the garden and general car control, but I know I needed a few lessons with an instructor to learn some things I wouldnt have learned on my own.

I agree tho, any measure like this does not change the fact that the roads needs to be policed more strictly, and that rules like the one preventing learner drivers to drive unaccompanied need to be enforced a lot more rigidly.

I wasn't using the point to brag, I'm saying that lessons are not the answer to road deaths. Its absurd you can book a theory test & then hop into a car without spending any time learning (theoretically). The learner driver accompanyment was being policed for a few months, but again has gone down the drain. A lot of people just don't use L plates, therefore avoiding the hassle intheir eyes - which brings me back to attitude.

You should have to pass a theory test, then you should have to spend a certain amount of hours driving with proper RSA instructers, who will then run you through a 1st stage test, and if you pass then you are certified as a Learner Driver. You should still then have to be accompanied, at all times before you pass your 2nd stage test (full licence). It basically means that someone has certified you safe before you are trusted with >1 ton of metal at road speeds.

Cookie_Monster

RoverJames wrote: »

Sure you're a dinger at it from all the powersliding you were doing the winter just gone

oh, **** off with that

Lol, i remember the day i passed my test, went in with 2 hands on the wheel and came out with one, siting back relaxed, not looking in any mirrors etc. Is a joke tbf.

Xios

EnterNow wrote: »

I wasn't using the point to brag, I'm saying that lessons are not the answer to road deaths. Its absurd you can book a theory test & then hop into a car without spending any time learning (theoretically). The learner driver accompanyment was being policed for a few months, but again has gone down the drain. A lot of people just don't use L plates, therefore avoiding the hassle intheir eyes - which brings me back to attitude.

You should have to pass a theory test, then you should have to spend a certain amount of hours driving with proper RSA instructers, who will then run you through a 1st stage test, and if you pass then you are certified as a Learner Driver. You should still then have to be accompanied, at all times before you pass your 2nd stage test (full licence). It basically means that someone has certified you safe before you are trusted with >1 ton of metal at road speeds.

I agree, so who's in control of the licence system? the RSA? And how do the people go about requesting change? I say we all do a 4chan gig, write up a general letter, everyone copy it and send it in to the RSA (or whoever is in charge)

Myrddin

Xios wrote: »

I agree, so who's in control of the licence system? the RSA? And how do the people go about requesting change? I say we all do a 4chan gig, write up a general letter, everyone copy it and send it in to the RSA (or whoever is in charge)

Nice sentiments, but unfortunately it would cost a lot of money to fix the system. That automatically makes it a no-no. The quickest & cheapest "solution" was to enforce the lessons like they are doing, unfortunately its not going to change a single thing. The instructors will be happy (a minority obviously), as a little brown envelope will probably earn you your "lessons complete" cert, because like everything else in this country, backhanders = progress.

Xios

EnterNow wrote: »

Nice sentiments, but unfortunately it would cost a lot of money to fix the system. That automatically makes it a no-no. The quickest & cheapest "solution" was to enforce the lessons like they are doing, unfortunately its not going to change a single thing. The instructors will be happy (a minority obviously), as a little brown envelope will probably earn you your "lessons complete" cert, because like everything else in this country, backhanders = progress.

I see, so where can i get emigration forms then? Green card plz, i'm off to wall street.

Anan1

Mak_United wrote: »

Lol, i remember the day i passed my test, went in with 2 hands on the wheel and came out with one, siting back relaxed, not looking in any mirrors etc. Is a joke tbf.

There's very little the test can do about someone who doesn't want to drive well.

Myrddin

Xios wrote: »

I see, so where can i get emigration forms then? Green card plz, i'm off to wall street.

djimi

EnterNow wrote: »

I wasn't using the point to brag, I'm saying that lessons are not the answer to road deaths. Its absurd you can book a theory test & then hop into a car without spending any time learning (theoretically). The learner driver accompanyment was being policed for a few months, but again has gone down the drain. A lot of people just don't use L plates, therefore avoiding the hassle intheir eyes - which brings me back to attitude.

You should have to pass a theory test, then you should have to spend a certain amount of hours driving with proper RSA instructers, who will then run you through a 1st stage test, and if you pass then you are certified as a Learner Driver. You should still then have to be accompanied, at all times before you pass your 2nd stage test (full licence). It basically means that someone has certified you safe before you are trusted with >1 ton of metal at road speeds.

I actually really like the idea of this. Ignoring the fact that Ireland being Ireland it would create a massive backlog of people now needing to take two tests, at least a system like that would ensure that someone who is behind the wheel of a car has some level of competency to be there. You wouldnt even need to take an initial test, just make it so that for the first 5 hours or whatever you are only allowed to drive driving school cars while accompanied by an instructor or something. They then sign a form agreeing that you are competant enough to get a proper learners permit.

Im sure a lot of people would see a system like that as being over the top but it would be a good way to ensure that everyone has at least some degree of compentancy before driving a car. On the other hand a system like this feels like it is more designed to paper over the flaws in the way driving in this country is policed, but assuring that learners are competant before letting them drive as they are unlikely to get caught once they start to drive on their own with a learners permit.

unkel

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

maybe it just on motorways then... not any experience of non motorways in Holland really.

So all Dutch drivers are like maniacs on Dutch motorways? Bizarre statement that :eek:

The Dutch tend to stick to the speed limit (120km/h) because there are many controls / checks / gatsos etc. And the lane discipline is pretty good (motorway driving is by far the most important part of the driving classes curriculum). You can only drive a car in Holland if you either have a full license, or are in a dual control learner vehicle with a professional and certified driving instructor.

But of course there's always a rotten apple on the road in any country. Maybe something traumatic happened to you?

unkel

Mak_United wrote: »

I remember 2 years ago tho, just when i passed, they were going to be cracking down on learner drivers and them driving on there own and without L plates. Seem's like it never got enforced. Such a joke.

+1

The number of L plates displayed on cars dropped by about 90% nearly overnight though

djimi

unkel wrote: »

So all Dutch drivers are like maniacs on Dutch motorways? Bizarre statement that :eek:

The Dutch tend to stick to the speed limit (120km/h) because there are many controls / checks / gatsos etc. And the lane discipline is pretty good (motorway driving is by far the most important part of the driving classes curriculum). You can only drive a car in Holland if you either have a full license, or are in a dual control learner vehicle with a professional and certified driving instructor.

But of course there's always a rotten apple on the road in any country. Maybe something traumatic happened to you?

Which is the way it should be over here as well. Excellent system of learning.

rooney111

should have to do the 20 lessons before you get a licence,its crazy when you think you can walk into tax office and get a licence and drive away with no experience. especially with the volume of traffic on the road these days.one mistake could be fatal.expensive but worth it in long run

Anan1

Anan1 wrote: »

There's very little the test can do about someone who doesn't want to drive well.

Want?

I feel i am a better driver driving the way i do, i look at the mirrors, put on the indicators, brake when i have to without putting to much thought into it.

One could argue thats because i've been driving for a while now but even back when i did my test i thought it was 'easier' the way i did it.

Shame the RSA can't do tests and let people drive with one hand etc, cause at the end of the day, thats how 90% of all drivers drive like.

Myrddin

Mak_United wrote: »

Shame the RSA can't do tests and let people drive with one hand etc, cause at the end of the day, thats how 90% of all drivers drive like.

Thats a shocking comment, the standards are bad enough

unkel

rooney111 wrote: »

its crazy when you think you can walk into tax office and get a licence and drive away with no experience.

Yeah, I still can't get over that one. Stupendously irresponsible system.

Still, I don't believe in a minimum number of lessons. Abolish the learner system, only let people drive in dual control vehicles with professional instructors and let people go up for their new style test (in the dual control vehicle) whenever they and their instructor think they're ready.

There are people in Holland who pass their test after only 15 lessons, or even less. It's very rare though...

djimi

Mak_United wrote: »

Want?

I feel i am a better driver driving the way i do, i look at the mirrors, put on the indicators, brake when i have to without putting to much thought into it.

One could argue thats because i've been driving for a while now but even back when i did my test i thought it was 'easier' the way i did it.

Shame the RSA can't do tests and let people drive with one hand etc, cause at the end of the day, thats how 90% of all drivers drive like.

I know, based on your last comment, that youre only winding people up, but on the off chance that youre serious...:

The easier way is not always the best way... Im as guilty as anyone of driving with one hand, or resting one arm on the door or whatever when Im driving because its more comfortable, but I also know damn well that if it comes to it the split second it takes me to react and grab the wheel properly could be the difference between crashing and not crashing, which is why when I find myself doing it I stop myself.

EnterNow

EnterNow wrote: »

Thats a shocking comment, the standards are bad enough

In fairness tho, its how everyone drives.

Its more of a shock making people drive a certain way to get a piece of pink card and then going back to the way they want cause they never have to again.

This driving lesson thing anyways should reduce your insurance quotes so it doesn't hurt the pocket of the younger driver.

Do they not take Insurance, petrol and maintaining of the car throughout the year into account?

Yes you may all say, "If you have a car you should be able to afford the costs". But yet Younger drivers insurance is a joke, when i started off on a 1 litre micra it was 2400 euro. Then you have the tax on top of that.

Imo, this new lesson thing should cut 30% out of your insurance quote.

And a set point is a joke, an instructor should just be able to give you the go ahead after 3, 4 or however many lessons it may take the person.

Anan1

Mak_United wrote: »

Lol, i remember the day i passed my test, went in with 2 hands on the wheel and came out with one, siting back relaxed, not looking in any mirrors etc.

Mak_United wrote: »

I feel i am a better driver driving the way i do, i look at the mirrors,

Which is it?;)

Wile E. Coyote

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I don't suppose there is any chance at all that these new rules will contain the requirement for at least one lesson to be on a skid-pad?

Actually is there anywhere you can go for lessons on a skidpad at the moment?

http://www.leinsterdrivingcampus.ie/skid-control.html

You know what i meant.

For the test and 'the way you should drive', your supposed to look from left wing mirror to middle to nearside then back to the middle repeatably.

Now its just a quick glance in them and your on.

Wile E. Coyote

Mak_United wrote: »

Do they not take Insurance, petrol and maintaining of the car throughout the year into account?

No they're very silly when it comes to these sort of things. They tend to only think about road safety :rolleyes:

metzengerstein

maybe 30 is a bit extreme ,but i agree with the idea ,
they do something like this in other european countrys dont they

Wile E. Coyote

Mak_United wrote: »

Lol, i remember the day i passed my test, went in with 2 hands on the wheel and came out with one, siting back relaxed, not looking in any mirrors etc. Is a joke tbf.

How is the test supposed to stop you driving like a tit? The test is there to ensure your a competant driver (which you failed on the first two occasions). After that it's up to you to make sure your driving safely.

Already explained why i failed.

Driver test means nothing tho. Just means you can 'legally' drive on the road.

djimi

Mak_United wrote: »

Already explained why i failed.

Driver test means nothing tho. Just means you can 'legally' drive on the road.

What are you trying to say; that we shouldnt have a test, or that it should be more geared around the bad habits we all pick up? Are you saying that the test should ignore speeding because we all do it at some point or another? Or that we should incorporate driving with one hand while putting on our seat belt into the reversing around a corner manouevre because lets face it we all do that when pulling away from the front of the shops?

A very small percentage of drivers who pass there test actually continue to drive like they did in the test. Ive seen people just pass their test and driving away a completely different way.

Look at the British, Swedish, Americans for example, there tests are so much different, require so much more.

In Sweden for example; you need to pass 2 separate tests, one in normal weather and one in the snow to get your full licence.

Yet, we can pass our test in Ireland, which let me remind you is one of the easiest in the world at the moment and go over to live in Sweden and get your licence changed to a Swedish one or drive there for a year when you still haven't even driven in the snowy conditions or done the tests they require. Everything is flawed.

Anyways i went off topic there. Just look at how other countries do there tests and you will see how easy if not pointless our one is.